Religion classes in school - Megathread

Lawrence Torres56 said:😁Wait, what exactly are you trying to imply here?

Look, I was born right here in the States, my ancestors were born here, and my husband was born here too—honestly, do I even need to drop a massive family tree listing everyone who’s been living on this soil for the last 400 years, basically since we started keeping written records? How would you even want me to prove that? On top of all that, I live an honest life, paying my taxes and all those state levies like everyone else. Do you seriously need to see receipts for that, too? Because I’ve got no problem showing you if you're really that obsessed. 😉)

Look, your kid is going through the exact same thing mine is, so let's get that straight right off the bat. The only real difference here is that you’re out here trying to force your worldview down my throat—and my kid's too—as if I’m somehow the villain just because I won't play along with your little crusade to turn your child into some kind of martyr.
Look, I’m not out here trying to defend my kid just because they want to go after whatever they're into—I’m saying you're the one trying to stand in their way and strip that choice away from them.
Look, I’m not out here pointing fingers at your kid like they're some kind of criminal, you know? But then again, you're looking at mine like they’ve done nothing wrong. How does that even work?

Look, my kid doesn't sit there praying in class; they just learn about faith as a subject, and then we head to church if that's what we want to do. Honestly, if I were living in a place like Iran, my child would take an Islamic studies course if they felt like it, regardless of us being Catholic. I personally don't have any issues with that kind of thing, nor do these topics ever present a problem for me.

Honestly, he can let whoever wants to say whatever they want, it doesn't even phase me anymore. I’m just out here trying my hardest to teach him how to be smart enough to not stoop that low, you know? Because at the end of the day, what actually matters isn't the noise someone's making—it's about who's actually behind the words.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter how high your IQ is, what color you are, what you believe in, how much cash is sitting in your bank account, or what kind of designer threads you're rocking. At the end of the day, none of that stuff actually carries any weight, right? What really matters—the only thing that truly counts—is who you are as a human being and whether or not you're actually a decent friend when things get real.

Look, what I told you before really comes down to how I live my life, and honestly, I can’t stand fake people—you know, the ones who play nice to your face just to talk trash behind your back? It’s exhausting. If there’s an issue, we deal with it directly where it belongs, period. Keeping things private and then turning around and trashing everything on a forum like this just feels incredibly hypocritical to me. And think about it this way: if tomorrow the school board decided to scrap religious studies and swap it out for something that perfectly fits your worldview but totally clashes with mine, would I be the one causing a scene? Not a chance. Because of what I believe, I’m not about going out there and fighting for what your kid wants if it goes against my principles. My kid follows my lead. If he’s in the library during class, he’s doing exactly what I told him to do—whether that's grinding through homework, catching up on some required reading, or whatever else needs getting done. I'm not about that drama.
Look, if all this is getting under your skin, believe me, I’m not trying to lecture anyone or act like I’ve got some moral high ground here. It’s not like I expect everyone to live my life or adopt my personal values, right? But can we just try acting like actual adults for once? Can we stop with the constant theatrics and the whole "woe is me" victim mentality? If there’s an issue, why don't we just sit down and find a solution that works for everyone involved instead of blowing things up in a public forum? Why keep pointing fingers and blaming people for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with them? At the end of the day, everything we do—every word we say and every action we take—is being mirrored by our kids, so shouldn't we be mindful of that?

Look, I signed my little girl up for Sunday school primarily because that’s what she wanted. She’s one of those kids who just wants to dive headfirst into everything—whether it's soccer practice or art classes—so if she says she wants to go, I'm following her lead. It isn't some grand statement I'm making, and it's definitely not me trying to be stubborn or prove some point to anyone, you know? It’s just about letting her follow her own interests.😉

Look, it’s not about denying anyone anything. Your child could take religious studies during the first period or the last, they could switch to the afternoon session entirely, or even just head over to a local church if that fits better. The reality is that my kid doesn't have any other place to go for that hour while religious studies is happening, and there isn't anyone available to watch them.

One more thing: I honestly find it pretty bizarre that American Catholics who actually live out their faith every single day—passing those values down to their kids through daily prayer and regular church attendance—would even feel the need for a 45-minute religion class at school twice a week.

And it’s weird (at least from my perspective as an atheist) that someone has to rack up a certain number of "participation points" for attending Mass just to qualify for First Communion or Confirmation. It almost makes it feel like going to Mass is some kind of chore or a penalty you have to serve, rather than a genuine celebration of faith.

In the context of a Catholic faith that's supposed to teach self-denial and humility, this whole topic feels totally out of place:

Why do we constantly feel this pressure to be politically correct?
Out of everyone who signs their kids up for religious education, maybe 20%* actually sit down with their children at home to pray before meals or read the Bible.
The rest of them seem to send their kids just so they can prove they aren't Mexicans or old-school communists.
From what I recall of the Bible, there isn't a single word in there about the historical struggles between Americans and Mexicans, no matter how much some American priests might try to spin it that way. 😁

* And honestly, I don't even think that percentage is that high, but you get my point.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Are you actually raising your kid to just swallow everything anyone tells them and build their entire worldview on it? Or are you teaching them to listen to everything, process it, and then decide for themselves what fits their life and what they can just ignore?

Sorry, but if I'm being totally blunt, it feels pretty pointless to vent about what someone said and how our kids took it, especially when you immediately pivot to talking about diversity... because look, if we're teaching our kids at home that everyone is different and that every single person has inherent value regardless of what they believe in, then that kid isn't going to see "non-believers go to hell" or "pray before eating" as a personal attack; they'll just see it as someone else's way of life...
Which basically means the fault doesn't lie with the people saying those things—they're just living their truth and sharing their faith—it lies with us for being so inconsistent with the values we claim to teach our children.

Religious ed isn't mandatory in American schools; we all have the choice whether to enroll our kids or not, and that's where our diversity is respected. Trying to purge it from the system completely just undermines everything we say about embracing differences, and honestly, that says a lot more about us than it does about the people preaching about hell or pre-meal prayers.😉

@Karen Richardson3, please don't 😉,

I wouldn't say we really have much of a choice, though. If religious ed is just one hour, sure, I can let her sleep in at home. But if it's scheduled for three periods, I can't exactly pick her up from school, take her out for ice cream, and bring her back by the fourth period!

Like I mentioned before, some parents at my daughter's school asked if they could offer an extra foreign language during the time religion classes are held. The request was denied because schools aren't allowed to host outside language programs during regular school hours. Plus, since it would be a paid program, there was a concern about discriminating against families who might not have the extra cash to spare.
Personally, I'd be more than happy to pay for a second language. I’d love for my child to learn German, Chinese, Urdu, or something else while she’s already at school, rather than having to drive her somewhere after school... it's just like the religious families; they'd love for their kids to learn something new too, they just don't want it to be an extra trip after the bell rings.🥳

As for studying, reading assignments, or math... there are teachers who go the extra mile to help with that. But then you run into issues with the after-school programs: the kids don't really have anything academic to work on during supervised study time, so you wonder what they're actually supposed to be doing.
Then you have situations where a teacher puts in extra effort to do fun activities or math puzzles with the non-religious kids, and suddenly the religious parents complain that their children are missing out on learning. They end up demanding that the teacher teach those same lessons to everyone during the time when religion class isn't happening.

So much for tolerance.🥳

In the upper grades, nobody really watches over the kids, and they are pretty much left to their own devices.
Every now and then, librarians will put together a workshop, or a few psychologists or social workers might try to host sessions if there are at least five students (since it's not worth it for fewer). But even then, problems pop up—religious parents sometimes get upset because their kids aren't participating in those "cool" activities.

And so it goes... tolerance.🐔🙂

silentraven6 said:hiddenpuma3: "Quote:"

Honestly, I think your comment stems from a pretty fundamental lack of political and socio-ethical literacy. And if I’m being completely honest? I’d probably add religious illiteracy to that list, too.

Look, here’s how I see it: democracy isn't about the majority just steamrolling everyone else. That's not what it's for. Real democracy means respecting the choices made by the majority, sure, but those choices have to be made with the well-being of every single person in the community in mind. It shouldn't be about forcing one set of beliefs into every classroom; it's more about finding that balance where we acknowledge different perspectives and simply learn to respect one another.

Secularism isn't just some abstract concept; it’s about drawing clear lines. It means keeping the church and the state separate, making sure our school systems stay independent from religious institutions too. To me, that separation makes everything much simpler to wrap your head around—it clarifies exactly how we should handle things like elective courses without all the messy overlap.

These kinds of shallow takes are actually pretty dangerous for democracy and for anything involving true inclusivity. They’re built on nothing more than habit and unthinking assumptions—there's just zero genuine curiosity there. People like this aren't actually interested in getting to the heart of the matter, which in this case is faith. Honestly, it feels like this kind of superficiality is just a personality trait for them; they tend to be this way about everything.

I'm with you on that one point—there are way too many people in our society acting like hypocrites. They push for these things just because they don't want to deal with the surgical complications or the extra headaches later on. It’s all about avoiding personal inconvenience. As for the actual science? We are miles away from anything being truly practical in a real-world sense.

It’s honestly such a bizarre situation when you think about it. My kid doesn't even take religious studies at school, yet they just decide—completely on their own initiative—to cross themselves before a meal. And suddenly, I'm getting all these confused looks and questions from teachers and other kids in the class. Why the interrogation, though? It's because 90% of those kids don't even have that kind of practice in their own households.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉

Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?

Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?

So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.

My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?

If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?

I’m not even hinting at anything here. You’re the one who brought up the guests in the first place.
The rest pretty much speaks for itself...

rustydrifter10 said:Look, it’s not about denying anyone anything. Your child could take religious studies during the first period or the last, they could switch to the afternoon session entirely, or even just head over to a local church if that fits better. The reality is that my kid doesn't have any other place to go for that hour while religious studies is happening, and there isn't anyone available to watch them.

Look, Lawrence Torres56, you're totally missing the mark here because her kid is actually perfectly fine for that hour—in most cases, those kids are just hanging out in the school library with their teacher... and hey, if they have it during the last period, they just get to head home early, right?
My kid—and honestly, I’m talking about all twenty-two kids in that classroom—doesn't exactly have the luxury of picking the first or last period every single time just because it’s convenient; it’s physically impossible to schedule it like that, and it’s not some selfish whim on my part either... plus, if they decide religious education can only happen at a church, then sure, she'll go to the church if she wants to, just like she chooses to attend the sessions held at school right now by her own free will...

And seriously, if you truly believe what she's saying—that it's perfectly fine to shuffle twenty-two different kids into a different school shift just so one single student doesn't have to spend an hour in the library—then please, be my guest and write a formal complaint to the Department of Education or the school board; I won't stop you... if they actually decide to listen to you, hey, I don't mind accommodating one person's specific needs if that's how they want to play it.😉

Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉

Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?

Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?

So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.

My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?

If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?

Look, it isn't really about the number of kids involved; it's about the specific situation they're stuck in. Just imagine you've got two kids, and one wants to take religious studies while the other doesn't. For that first child, we could easily arrange for them to attend during the first period, the last period, an after-school session, or even at a different campus where the curriculum fits better. But if we force them into a class right in the middle of the school day, there’s nobody left to watch the second child. They’d basically be left to fend for themselves. Is it really alright to let one kid wander through hallways or hang out in the courtyard in whatever weather happens to be hitting us, just so someone else can take an elective that could easily be scheduled at a different time or place? In my eyes, absolutely not. Both children are equally important, and you shouldn't provide space and supervision for one while essentially abandoning the other. Adding more kids to the equation doesn't change the fundamental issue; whether it's one extra student or twenty-five, we still have that one child being left behind. So, I have to ask: what is your magic number where it becomes acceptable for a minority to be discriminated against and denied proper care just to serve the majority? Because if you ask me, there isn't one. That number is zero.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, Lawrence Torres56, you're totally missing the mark here because her kid is actually perfectly fine for that hour—in most cases, those kids are just hanging out in the school library with their teacher... and hey, if they have it during the last period, they just get to head home early, right?
My kid—and honestly, I’m talking about all twenty-two kids in that classroom—doesn't exactly have the luxury of picking the first or last period every single time just because it’s convenient; it’s physically impossible to schedule it like that, and it’s not some selfish whim on my part either... plus, if they decide religious education can only happen at a church, then sure, she'll go to the church if she wants to, just like she chooses to attend the sessions held at school right now by her own free will...

And seriously, if you truly believe what she's saying—that it's perfectly fine to shuffle twenty-two different kids into a different school shift just so one single student doesn't have to spend an hour in the library—then please, be my guest and write a formal complaint to the Department of Education or the school board; I won't stop you... if they actually decide to listen to you, hey, I don't mind accommodating one person's specific needs if that's how they want to play it.😉

The thing is, some kids aren't being supervised at all. And honestly, why should those kids be left to wander around on their own, trying to figure things out or bothering the librarian and other teachers to watch them when it’s clearly not part of their job description and they aren't even getting paid extra for it? It's just not fair to the staff.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, Lawrence Torres56, you're totally missing the mark here because her kid is actually perfectly fine for that hour—in most cases, those kids are just hanging out in the school library with their teacher... and hey, if they have it during the last period, they just get to head home early, right?
My kid—and honestly, I’m talking about all twenty-two kids in that classroom—doesn't exactly have the luxury of picking the first or last period every single time just because it’s convenient; it’s physically impossible to schedule it like that, and it’s not some selfish whim on my part either... plus, if they decide religious education can only happen at a church, then sure, she'll go to the church if she wants to, just like she chooses to attend the sessions held at school right now by her own free will...

And seriously, if you truly believe what she's saying—that it's perfectly fine to shuffle twenty-two different kids into a different school shift just so one single student doesn't have to spend an hour in the library—then please, be my guest and write a formal complaint to the Department of Education or the school board; I won't stop you... if they actually decide to listen to you, hey, I don't mind accommodating one person's specific needs if that's how they want to play it.😉

But let's be real: for years now, they've been choosing not to fix this because those special agreements with the Vatican are treated as being above the Constitution of the United States. No politician in power wants to touch the issue of religious classes in public schools, because if they did, they'd probably lose their cushy seats in Washington before they could even blink.

Quincy:

I mean, honestly, what even is this? Just "rhino"? Is that it? Are we really just going to drop a single word like that and expect me to do all the heavy lifting? It’s almost impressive how little effort went into this, isn't it? Like, did you just wake up, look at a rhinoceros, and decide that was the absolute pinnacle of discourse for today? I'm sitting here waiting for some kind of point, some kind of vibe, or even just a coherent thought, but instead, I get... this. What are we even doing here? kaže: I wouldn't exactly say we have much of a choice in the matter, you know? Like, if religion class is just one period, sure, I can just let her sleep in at home. No biggie. But if it’s a three-period block? There's no way on earth I'm picking her up from school mid-morning, driving her out to grab some ice cream, and then somehow racing back to get her settled in time for fourth period. It's just not happening. I’ve already mentioned this before, but I was talking to some parents whose kids are heading to the same school mine is, and they were actually pushing to swap out religion class for an extra foreign language elective. It didn't fly with the administration, obviously. Apparently, since it would happen during regular school hours, the district won't allow some outside language academy to just swoop in and run classes on campus like that. Plus, there's the whole equity issue—since it would be an extra fee, wouldn't that basically mean we're creating a divide where kids whose families don't have the extra cash get left behind? It would just be blatant discrimination, right? Look, I am more than willing to foot the bill for a second foreign language. Honestly, if my kid has to be stuck in a classroom anyway, I’d much rather they be learning German, Mandarin, Urdu, or something else entirely—especially since I have zero interest in driving them around to extra classes after the school bell rings. It’s funny, isn't it? It reminds me exactly of those hardcore religious folks who are all about their Sunday school or after-school religious ed. Both groups are super eager for their kids to pick up something new, but suddenly, when it comes to actually making it an official part of the school day instead of an after-school add-on, they get all hesitant. Why does everything have to be an "extra" when it could just be part of the curriculum? 🥳 When it comes to the whole school grind—memorizing stuff, grinding through required reading, tackling math—you’ve got certain teachers who actually step up and make sure that happens. But then you run into this massive headache with after-school programs. I mean, what are those kids even supposed to do there? If the program isn't actually set up to facilitate studying, then what's the point of them sitting there for hours? You end up with this huge question mark hanging over everything: if they aren't being guided to actually learn during those extra hours, what exactly are they meant to be doing with all that time? So then you’ve got this teacher going above and beyond, right? She’s putting in all this extra effort to engage the kids, maybe running through some intense math puzzles or brain teasers just to keep them sharp, and suddenly the parents of the religious kids start making a huge stink about it. They start complaining that their little ones are being "left behind" academically, and then—get this—they actually have the nerve to demand that she spends the entire class period teaching those same math problems during the hours when religious studies aren't even on the schedule. Like, seriously? Since when did wanting your kid to be good at math become a grievance? So, let's talk about tolerance for a second, shall we? It’s one of those words that everyone loves to throw around these days like it's some kind of magic spell, but does anyone actually know what it means anymore? Is it just a polite way of saying "I'll put up with you until you annoy me," or is there something deeper to it? I mean, honestly, where do we draw the line before everything just turns into a giant, messy free-for-all? 🥳 Honestly, once you get into the upper grades, it’s like nobody even bothers to watch the kids anymore, and they are just completely left to their own devices. Is anyone actually looking out for them? Because from where I'm sitting, they're basically running wild without a single adult giving a damn. So, look, librarians around here have tried to get some workshops off the ground, right? We’ve had a few psychologists and social workers drop by to try and run these sessions, but they usually only bother if there’s at least five kids signed up—because let’s be real, if you've got fewer than that, it’s just not worth the effort or the headache. But even when we could actually get a group together, we hit this massive wall. You’d have these religious parents stepping in, totally bugging out because their kids weren't part of these "super cool" activities, and suddenly everyone's making a scene about why their little ones were being left out of the loop. It’s always something, isn't it? And just like that... tolerance. 🐔🙂

I honestly have no idea how many of these parents aren't even that devout, yet they’re still out here dragging their kids to Sunday school at the local parish just so they can check the box for First Communion in the third grade. Like, if you’re actually that committed to the faith, I guess it makes sense, right? But then again, looking at it from my perspective, I’m just not sure I could pull it all off. Between juggling my actual life and trying to squeeze in religious education sessions in the afternoons, I don't know if I could make the math work without eventually having to sit my kid down and tell them, "Look, you’ve gotta pick a side."

Look, like I’ve already said, I totally get where those parents are coming from—the ones looking at their kid’s watch and seeing a gaping hole in their schedule and wondering, "What on earth is my child actually doing all day?" Honestly, as both a parent and just a person, none of that feels questionable or even worth debating to me. I will always have your back if you're fighting to make sure your kid gets to spend their time actually learning what they’re passionate about. And frankly? I’ll always roll my eyes at the people making a massive drama out of nothing, trying to gatekeep what other kids should be allowed to pursue, whether it's science, a second language, or whatever else. It honestly turns my stomach when I see people who don't even know what they want themselves—let alone what their kids want—yet they feel entitled to swoop in and tell everyone else how they should live or what their children should be doing. It's just exhausting.

That’s exactly why I said it—parents really need to just let their kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once. Honestly, this whole headache wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for the adults in the room. It isn't the kids causing the trouble, and it's definitely not the religious studies classes; the problem lies exclusively with the parents.

Look, if your kid is spending that hour playing in the backyard or snacking on some Takis, I’m really not going to lose any sleep over the fact that my kid wants to do something different—even if they're being "denied" because of religious studies. My child made the choice to take religion; nobody forced them into it, and it’s certainly not their place to strip away someone else's options just to get what they want....

The after-school staff at the local elementary school are literally paid to keep those kids entertained once the homework is out of the way....So when certain idiots start making a scene, let them scream, honestly, because our entire education system tends to go overboard with everything... Back when I was a kid in grade school, we didn't have elective religious studies, sure, but parents didn't get to pick which grade level or even which language we studied... The school just dictated the curriculum and that was that. Nowadays, parents are allowed to choose almost everything, and then certain people think they have the right to demand absolutely anything under the sun... And frankly, we need to put an end to that, not for my sake, but for the sake of all the kids... Because if someone can't wrap their head around the idea that you can't build a whole classroom based solely on my personal preferences, then that classroom simply cannot exist... My kid can't be in two places at once, so a decision has to be made, plain and simple; there isn't a third option. Depriving someone of what they actually want just so my kid can do the exact same thing is pure stupidity, especially when it's happening during the time my kid is busy doing what they actually enjoy...

At our local school, the library is always open and anyone can drop in whenever they feel like it. The older kids are smart enough to decide how they want to spend that hour anyway; the ones who actually care about their GPA will always find something to study, while the ones who don't? Well, their heads are already somewhere else entirely... So I really don't see the issue here... And I honestly can't stand the parents who throw a fit because their kid has a gap in their schedule due to religious studies, yet they don't say a word when their kid skips math class entirely...

There's zero tolerance on either side, obviously, but it's not about you or me—it's about the people who cause a massive drama storm just because the whole world doesn't revolve around their child and everyone isn't constantly catering to their every whim...
Every parent cares about their own child, and there's nothing wrong with that. What *is* wrong is when I try to take something away from your kid just because my kid won't be able to do it, or when you try to do the same to mine just to satisfy your own... So now the question is: are all parents and all kids supposed to regress to the level of toddlers over these tiny little grievances, or are we all going to step up, shut down this behavior, and find a way to accommodate all the kids instead of just our own?

Watching the parents in my daughter's class, it's always the same group making noise—people who don't even know what they want themselves, and their kids don't know either, unlike the parents who actually have a clue and whose kids follow suit.... It's always some ridiculous drama over nonsense, like why my kid wasn't picked for the best costume, why my kid's photo didn't make it onto the bulletin board, why a test shouldn't be canceled just because my kid got an F, or why my kid sits next to certain classmates... It's always the same crowd, the same trivial nonsense, and always the same lies and attempts to manipulate the situation.

So, is everyone who tries to stand up against something unfair just being a total drama queen? Like, they don't actually know what they want, they have no clue how to raise a kid, and they basically just freak out over nothing by default? Honestly, you should just be a good little sheep and stay quiet. If your kid ends up kicked out on the sidewalk, just explain to them that it’s their fault because they were part of a group of bad guests who didn't follow the homeowner's rules...

Lawrence Torres56 said:Maybe try reading back through a few posts if you're having such a hard time wrapping your head around this... why on earth would it be impossible?

Look, your kid belongs to you, not the teacher.
And honestly, if you think it's the teacher's job to manage your child instead of yours, then I can only ask one question: why did you have the kid in the first place? My child is mine, period. Whether they are sitting at the kitchen table or sitting in a classroom, looking out for them is my responsibility, not the teacher's...

If you truly believe that teachers in public schools are just part of the establishment, then honey, just enroll your kid in private school. Or better yet, start your own academy and hire teachers who actually align with your values.😉

And let's be real—as long as everyone invokes God whenever they need a favor, as long as top government officials show up at Mass, and as long as the President's inauguration ends with "so help me God," then please, save the lectures about a secular state for someone who actually believes it.😉

If we actually lived up to those "Christian" values even half as much as we love throwing the word around, wouldn't those other twenty kids matter just as much as our own?☕
So let's not misuse a concept we clearly don't understand just to try and tear someone else down.☕

When a kid is at school, they are under the supervision of the school and the faculty; please, don't try to spin this.
A parent isn't omnipresent—we can't be hovering over our children every single second from twenty miles away.

School isn't just something you breeze through in five minutes—it represents half a day of dedicated care and oversight.
The scheduling of that care and education rests entirely on the institution.
Because if parents were actually consulted, certain things might actually change in the schedule—but we all know that won't happen.

Quincy:

If you truly believe teachers in public schools are just bureaucratic hacks, then honey, just enroll your kid in private school—or better yet, start your own academy and hire teachers who meet your standards.😉

Give me a break.
I am absolutely losing it here. Eventually, people are going to learn what actual public accountability in a public institution means.😉

Quincy:

And as long as everyone invokes God whenever they need something, as long as the top brass of the government keeps heading to church, and as long as the President’s inauguration ends with "so help me God"—save the talk about being a secular nation for someone else.😉 If we actually held onto that concept of being "Christian" even half as much as we love invoking it, then those other twenty kids would matter to us too, not just our own.☕ So let's not abuse a word we don't even understand just to try and tear someone down.☕

What is the issue with the other kids? Why are you twisting the argument? 🍿
The majority of those kids are perfectly fine; they don't need anything because someone decided to force religious narratives on them while anyone who rejects that stuff is treated like a threat.

rustydrifter10 said:The thing is, some kids aren't being supervised at all. And honestly, why should those kids be left to wander around on their own, trying to figure things out or bothering the librarian and other teachers to watch them when it’s clearly not part of their job description and they aren't even getting paid extra for it? It's just not fair to the staff.

But let's be real: for years now, they've been choosing not to fix this because those special agreements with the Vatican are treated as being above the Constitution of the United States. No politician in power wants to touch the issue of religious classes in public schools, because if they did, they'd probably lose their cushy seats in Washington before they could even blink.

rustydrifter10, come on, let's stick to actual arguments instead of just repeating hearsay... which kids are we talking about here, and why exactly are they left hanging?
I mean, isn't it common knowledge that the school's responsibility is to look after these kids during that specific period when they aren't attending the class...
Let's get real: who are these kids supposedly wasting time, and why are they wasting it? And which parents are actually making these claims?
Can we please try to step outside our own biases for once?
Elementary teachers are required to be with those students during that hour, the librarian handles the older kids, and the library is always open... if we really have to go out of our way to micromanage a fifth grader or an eighth grader, then is the real issue the religious class or something else entirely?
The librarian is doing her job, the kids are doing what they want—reading, writing, studying... and if they don't feel like it, nobody can force them, just like nobody can force them to learn or finish their math homework... which, by the way, is legally protected territory... and if any teacher or professor tried to bully a kid into doing something they didn't want to do, the news would be all over it, and those "wonderful and caring" parents would be breathing down everyone's necks in a heartbeat...
What other options are there? When you realize that from the fourth grade up, it's practically impossible to form even one single class consisting only of kids who *don't* take this elective subject...

And what does that tell us? That as a society, we're hypocritical, intolerant... etc... so let's just keep encouraging that, while simultaneously preaching loudly about how much we value tolerance and honesty...
Look, I know all this, but I have to ask: what did I or my kid ever do to make you target *me* specifically? Why do you want to take your frustrations out on me and my child? You know as well as I do that neither you nor I were ever consulted on this matter... this was all signed and settled by politicians behind closed doors.
So why not direct that anger toward the people who actually made this happen?
Sorry, but I truly don't get what this approach is supposed to achieve (not just from you, but generally speaking)😉—if you think you can intimidate me, let me tell you right now: it's not going to work.
Even if that's how most people operate, that doesn't fly with me, and I'll always push back against it.
And if you think you can just force your will on me... well, forget it.
Just come to me like an adult. Say, "My child views this as a punishment, and I'll always support them," and do it for the kid, not for yourself. I'll always stand by you when you're fighting to ensure your child gets to spend that hour however they choose... but don't lie to my face, don't act, and don't try to force things on me while playing the victim just because you think it's the "cool" way to get your way.

The library isn't actually open 24/7; there's just one librarian working shifts.
That’s the first of many falsehoods.
Honestly, I don't even have the heart to keep commenting on this...

Our teacher insists it isn't even her responsibility to supervise the kids during that specific period... and then there’s the issue of the two hours dedicated to religious studies, where one of them has parent-teacher conferences scheduled, so she can barely keep an eye on anyone. It’s been this way since first grade. To make matters worse, our school library is only open three mornings a week and two afternoons, so when they have afternoon classes, the library is completely closed during the religion block.

Back in first grade, I used to come pick him up myself and just take him home during that hour, though eventually, he started staying behind. On the days when there aren't any meetings, they just stay in their classroom, but on the days when parents are coming in, the teacher is busy and they end up just loitering in the hallway. Honestly, I almost prefer them out in the hall because at least the janitor can see them and prevent any mischief... whereas when they are tucked away behind closed doors, who knows what kind of nonsense might cross their minds... The only thing that keeps me sane is that they are relatively well-behaved—mostly just drawing or playing board games, and thank goodness there hasn't been an incident yet. We managed to limp through until third grade, so I suppose we'll survive the rest of them...

The most absurd part of all this is knowing there are several other grades where the religious studies class is always either the very first or the very last period, and every single child attends... In first grade, I complained and I tried everything, but I was really just tearing my hair out over nothing. He doesn't even mind the break, so I've finally just accepted that this is simply how things are and left it at that.

What does the library being open have to do with anything? If it’s open, then so is the pub across the street.
Who can actually guarantee that my child—whom I’ve entrusted to the care of the school by law—won't just wander over to that pub during that hour? Or worse, start buying drugs right on campus? And please, let’s not get lectured about "parental guidance" here; kids will be kids. They’re going to act out regardless of how well they were raised.
The school needs to take responsibility for these students, rather than letting them run wild for 45 minutes twice a week. Let's face it: kids are constantly finding new ways to get into trouble.

Honestly, this is all getting a bit ridiculous. It feels like we’ve finally hit that predictable loop where everyone starts attacking poor believers and crying about intimidation tactics. (Seriously, you’d need a massive imagination and even more effort to spin those posts into a manipulation attempt)

Then you have Tanita claiming that us non-religious parents don't care about those twenty kids in religious studies—that we're just looking out for our own little ones instead of "everyone else." As if that's a bad thing! Truth be told, I care about those twenty kids exactly as much as those parents care about my kid while they're busy flaunting their supposed moral superiority. :-P

When it comes to faith, the majority opinion doesn't carry any weight. Throwing around theories about how we need to "adapt" to what most people think completely undermines the very foundations of religious belief.

Religion shouldn't be about coercion; if someone has a genuine desire to grow spiritually, they should be able to find that fulfillment within their churches.

At the end of the day, everyone contributes to the same tax pool, so there should be ways for people's specific spiritual interests to be met outside of the standard public school curriculum.

Honestly, you can tell a lot about the type of people enrolling their kids in religious studies just by looking at the data. The biggest group among those who move abroad are your average churchgoers who immediately start filing paperwork to opt out of religious taxes... It’s the same pattern where one parent moves away, and then the other stays behind here in the States, claiming Catholics are being persecuted just because they want a different way to organize religious education.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉

Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?

Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?

So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.

My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?

If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?

If a political decision back in the nineties hadn't prevented religious education from being integrated into our public schools, we probably wouldn't be sitting here debating who needs to accommodate whom. People wouldn't even know that having religious classes during school hours was an option; anyone who wanted them would just attend at a local church, while other kids were busy with soccer practice, music lessons, or language courses.
I honestly don't see how there is any significant sacrifice or adjustment involved in making religious studies the first, last, or perhaps second period of the day. Since teachers in other subjects have much larger schedules to balance, I imagine organizing a slot for religious studies shouldn't be such a monumental task.

I remember being a kid in the nineties, sitting out in the hallway during those periods. I know from firsthand experience that those situations still happen today. There was absolutely no teacher supervision—nothing at all. During those 45 minutes, I could have been testing the effects of various substances on a thirteen-year-old, and frankly, nobody would have cared. I could have been playing games or running across the street against a red light; I could have done whatever I wanted because there was zero oversight. Fortunately, my parents raised me to be sensible enough to stay put in the library, but I suppose that isn't something we should expect from the average thirteen-year-old.
When it comes to what happens to students during regular school hours, the responsibility lies with the school. Not the parents, and not the children themselves, but the SCHOOL.
And expecting a school to actually fulfill its basic obligations shouldn't be dismissed as someone just "making a scene."

So, I think the solution is quite straightforward: either move religious studies to a time that is acceptable to EVERYONE (not just the majority, but EVERYONE), perhaps as the first or, ideally, the last period; or, for the students who aren't enrolled in religious studies, offer elective courses like a foreign language, art, drama, or home economics—you name it. But, of course, providing those options costs money.
The most logical conclusion seems to present itself pretty clearly, yet for some reason, it doesn't seem to be happening. I wonder why that is? Well...

Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉

Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?

Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?

So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.

My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?

If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?

Seattle, Brooklyn school, 1st grade class of 2015/2016
20 students
12 go to religion class, and 8 don't.
Religion class is the first period, so parents drop the kids off at 7:45 AM, after which those 8 kids just hang out in the school hallway waiting until 8:45.

And since you're calling for "respecting diversity," true respect would mean that Catholic kids get treated exactly the same as kids who aren't Catholic.
Basically, everyone should just follow the standard curriculum set by the Department of Education, which is designed to actually educate students so they can find decent jobs once they graduate, while Catholics, Protestants, or Jehovah's Witnesses can learn about their own faiths outside of the school system however and whenever they want.

Besides, since we've heard that sad story about how local church halls don't even have laptops or proper equipment, I'd suggest the parishioners chip in and buy them themselves.

That's what real respect for diversity looks like.

What's happening here instead is planned indoctrination aimed at one thing: defending territory the Catholic Church has claimed as its own since the Middle Ages—territory where it collects its dues.

And would the people demanding this from others today say the exact same thing if the roles were reversed tomorrow?

I teach my child everything I believe is important and valuable every single day, and I also take them to all the activities I think are essential for their development during our free time. And through all of that, nobody else's kids are left waiting around in a hallway.

The truth is, you guys aren't actual believers, so you need two 45-minute blocks within the official school schedule so someone can teach your kids the basics of "your faith"—a faith you don't even practice a tiny bit in your daily lives.
Notice how there are only two believers participating in this thread whose opinions everyone actually respects, including you, who are basically the textbook definition of an "American Catholic," where your entire faith boils down to "Jesus is a good guy" and "I'll definitely make it to heaven when I die."

Attempting to reason with someone who has completely abandoned logic is—to put it mildly—an exercise in futility.

I applaud your persistence, though—honestly—it’s almost heroic.