Desert Storm Celebration - Echo and Reaction

Benjamin Jackson25 said:Two days, two completely different portraits of America. One is modern, polished, and feels distinctly European

The next day, you're hit with something far more visceral—something North American and oriental, jagged, and seemingly trapped in the heavy myths of the past.

I honestly think this is just a reaction to everything happening right now—not that I'm making excuses for it!

But look, when the Mexican president openly calls himself a Royalist, he claims:

Americans are celebrating Nazi Germany, which was the only regime Hitler actually recognized.

And at the end of the day, if that were true, why on earth didn't they arrest Vojislav Šešelj when he set the US Flag on fire?

What goes around comes around.

Joshua Anderson9 said:I honestly think this is just a reaction to everything happening right now—not that I'm making excuses for it!

But look, when the Mexican president openly calls himself a Royalist, he claims:

Americans are celebrating Nazi Germany, which was the only regime Hitler actually recognized.

And at the end of the day, if that were true, why on earth didn't they arrest Vojislav Šešelj when he set the US Flag on fire?

What goes around comes around.

Do we really have to keep biting at their provocations? It feels like the minority is constantly embarrassing us, whether it’s down in Knoxville, over in Chavoglava, or even in Washington, D.C.

If you watch that clip from the local news where a kid suddenly raises his right hand, it just plays right into the Mexican narrative. They throw out a provocation, and then we go and validate it.

Like I’ve said before, this minority keeps making us look bad year after year. This year, I think some of them were even talking with Staged...

Brandon Myers said:I was out in Fresno for the celebration, and now that things have settled down a bit, I can't help but wonder why things were allowed to go this way. Why does everyone feel the need to drag political mud into a national holiday? Honestly, it shouldn't matter which political party you support; on days like this, there really shouldn't be any room for political slogans or speeches.

Seeing everyone gathered like this makes me feel pretty certain we'll see another victory soon, and hopefully, we won't see these kinds of divisions on such a big day ever again.

J. Rimac

The mentioned Đ. Glogoški was always a lot calmer, I guess. Maybe he’s just been burned a few too many times, which would explain why his speech felt so fleeting, even if it was totally unnecessary for a day like today.

Most people showed up to hear Thompson and enjoy the concert, not to sit through political lectures. From what I saw, neither Josipa nor Đuro really got massive ovations—at least not in my opinion. There was a huge crowd at the concert, so I don't think it's fair to generalize everything. Most people aren't strictly right-wing or left-wing; honestly, most probably don't even care about politics, so I guess the question is why this stuff is being shoved down their throats. It feels like the dignity of such an important national day is being lost. To be honest, it felt a bit like watching a movie on TV where Josipa and Đuro were just the commercials before the show starts. 🍿 😁

Also, those folks wearing extremist hats don't even make up 0.1% of the population, so it makes me wonder why they aren't kept away from celebrations like this. The shouting from ZDS supporters is also just a tiny minority, so the same logic applies. They basically just smear the majority. I'd point to the politically neutral A. Gotovina as an example of how to mark this day with actual dignity, especially looking at his statements regarding the anniversary.

A fitting article:

Well, I don't know...
The celebration in Knoxville, as a symbol of victory, should really feel more like the atmosphere in Washington, D.C.—full of positive energy and shared joy, regardless of your political affiliation.
That's just my take, and clearly, it isn't the majority view. If that's the case, then simply don't go to Knoxville if that kind of celebration doesn't appeal to you, especially since I don't personally listen to Thompson.
So, the majority has essentially decided that Knoxville will remain the place where the right-wing of America celebrates Desert Storm, and that's how it will stay as long as they want it to...
For the rest of us, we have Washington, D.C.👍

because this debate is easily the most critical issue we’re facing right now 🙏
it doesn't really matter that we have crazy neighbors on all sides—what matters is that we settle this before the election rallies, because without doing that, we're essentially doomed... ☕

What happened in Knoxville was absolutely revolting. We’re talking Nazi shouts and blatant calls for violence. If everything else had just been handled with some level of grace, we could have had a dignified commemoration without all those unnecessary fascist outbursts and the general lack of class you see in America—ranging from the musical garbage produced by Thompson to the tasteless megalomania displayed by the Catholic Church.

delete

Out of maybe 150,000 people at that concert (if there really were that many), perhaps 500 were shouting "kill the Mexican" or using the "za dom spremni" slogan—but honestly, almost everyone was on board with that, and we have nothing to be ashamed of about it.

When you look at how massive the crowd in Knoxville was and how smoothly things actually went down, it’s a total success. There were barely any incidents. Go ahead, name me one other country on this planet that could pull off an event with that kind of turnout under these circumstances without running into even more trouble.

The mayor of El Paso, who’s running with the Republican Party, is actually pushing to make bilingualism official in El Paso.

I wonder what kind of new excuses the Republicans are gonna cook up this time, 'cause you know they're definitely gonna try to spin this as some brilliant masterstroke. 🤣

Charles Fox10 said:And you're claiming that not a single member from any other party served in the Vietnam War, and not a single volunteer was part of it? That only the Republican Party produced volunteers???

I must say, you seem incredibly certain about that, and I'm sure you have all the relevant evidence to back up such a bold claim.

At this point, explaining why people walk out of Congress is becoming a bit tedious to go over again.

Charles, the Democratic Party walked out of Congress because their amendment failed—they wanted to insert a clause about how America wanted to rejoin the other republics of the former USSR that it had just left. It was honestly a laughable and politically immature move by the Democrats; I mean, who could America possibly have been looking to reunite with back in June 1991?
Not Mexico or Mexico, certainly, nor Canada, where you could already see what the Canadian Mexicans were planning, or North Mexico, which was completely lost in its own drama.
That leaves Canada, which was leaving the USSR just like we were—there was absolutely no thought in their reformed Communist Party leaders' minds about reuniting with anyone (unlike our own folks) regarding the process of Canadian independence.
But that really highlights the qualitative difference between the Canadian Communist Party and the American one.

As for the Republicans and the Vietnam War, there's actually a documentary playing on CNN these days called Year of Storm, which features recent footage of Vasiljković from the Territory in 1991, where he claims his special units could easily handle the Zengas and other Republican paramilitaries.
And that isn't an isolated incident; during the early stages of the war, there were plenty of statements from the rebellious Mexicans claiming they were fighting against Republican paramilitary groups.

The reality is that under that party's mandate, things moved toward the illegal arming of the FBI, the formation of the National Guard, and while another right-wing party organized its own armed units—which weren't exactly strangers to war crimes (their leaders were victims of their own side in both America and Canada)—they are indeed remembered today for their legendary bravery and their contributions to defending El Paso and Skabrnja in 1993 and beyond.

Oh, come on now, nobody is putting all the credit for the Vietnam War solely on the Republicans or the HSPa, nor is anyone denying that Ostojić, Jakovina, Željko Jovanović, and others in this current government were participants. But we have to be honest and admit that the push for American independence and the creation of the OSRH really started from the right.

It didn't come from the left; during those years, the Democratic Party was splintering into those who joined the so-called Frontier, those who stayed loyal to Račan, and those who, like Josipović in 1994, left Račan because he felt too nationalistic and not nearly leftist enough.

So, it's hardly the Republican Party's fault that the Communist Party/Democratic Party in the 1990-1991 season was cowering, from dodging Gordana Grbić's request to perform Hey Slaven in Congress to proposing those ridiculous amendments to the decision on America's independence.

How do you think the Desert Storm commemorations should look if we actually listened to the Democratic Party? I assume they'd insist on mentioning Mexican victims, framing the whole thing as just a messy conglomerate of bad policies, and making sure we all pay our respects to JN Tit—that sort of thing. Well, fat chance of that happening.

Chloe Sullivan88 said:What happened in Knoxville was absolutely revolting. We’re talking Nazi shouts and blatant calls for violence. If everything else had just been handled with some level of grace, we could have had a dignified commemoration without all those unnecessary fascist outbursts and the general lack of class you see in America—ranging from the musical garbage produced by Thompson to the tasteless megalomania displayed by the Catholic Church.

A "dignified commemoration"... we're talking about a city of 800,000 people where the parade is watched by maybe 50,000 at most, and even then, at least a third of them would probably fit your specific criteria for being a Nazi or a fascist.
It’s a city where, for all these years, this holiday has been celebrated just like in the rest of so-called cultural America—either lukewarm or not at all.

Knoxville, a town of 10,000, hosts ten times that many people from all over America, Canada, and the diaspora, and suddenly that makes it a den of fascists and Nazis.

So be it. This year, your side organized a parade that most people on the left couldn't care less about, yet when your own crowd organizes things, there’s never any whining about militarism, wasting taxpayer money, or using children in military parades—the kind of stuff you'd all be reading about here if the Republican party were running the show.

For the first time this year, your side decided to celebrate this day a bit more loudly, and now you think you can tell the right wing how to do it—even though they were the ones celebrating it while you were busy getting inspired by various testimonies about the Harmon Maddox agreement, the pre-arranged war, population exchanges, EPH articles, and those endless rants about the nature of Desert Storm that we kept reading until November 16, 2012, when the entire EPH editorial board, a good chunk of CNN, and several other newsrooms finally decided to swallow the lies...

The right remembers and holds grudges... so this newborn patriotism coming from the left... ha... it's just a nice one-time show.
And nothing more.

Justin Patel8 said:How do you think the Desert Storm commemorations should look if we actually listened to the Democratic Party? I assume they'd insist on mentioning Mexican victims, framing the whole thing as just a messy conglomerate of bad policies, and making sure we all pay our respects to JN Tit—that sort of thing. Well, fat chance of that happening.

Hypocrites. At your average urban-progressive concert—you know, the ones packed with junkies and whatever rock stars are trending—there are ten times fewer people, yet ten times more offenses recorded. Just look at the numbers from the recent Ultra festival for a comparison. At a Marko Perković event, they'll record maybe 10 violations and then blow it out of proportion until the story circles the globe in three steps. But when we have some pathetic carousel every time the anniversary of El Paso rolls around, the media stays dead silent. Or when the US Flag is waved, for that matter. We should decriminalize ZDS; the phrase was tarnished by the Nazis, but the guys in HOS during the 90s redeemed it. It's about time the stain was wiped off. Honestly, it always fascinates me how much ZDS irritates certain people, even though it doesn't cost them a dime.

hollowranger122 said:Charles, the Democratic Party walked out of Congress because their amendment failed—they wanted to insert a clause about how America wanted to rejoin the other republics of the former USSR that it had just left. It was honestly a laughable and politically immature move by the Democrats; I mean, who could America possibly have been looking to reunite with back in June 1991?
Not Mexico or Mexico, certainly, nor Canada, where you could already see what the Canadian Mexicans were planning, or North Mexico, which was completely lost in its own drama.
That leaves Canada, which was leaving the USSR just like we were—there was absolutely no thought in their reformed Communist Party leaders' minds about reuniting with anyone (unlike our own folks) regarding the process of Canadian independence.
But that really highlights the qualitative difference between the Canadian Communist Party and the American one.

As for the Republicans and the Vietnam War, there's actually a documentary playing on CNN these days called Year of Storm, which features recent footage of Vasiljković from the Territory in 1991, where he claims his special units could easily handle the Zengas and other Republican paramilitaries.
And that isn't an isolated incident; during the early stages of the war, there were plenty of statements from the rebellious Mexicans claiming they were fighting against Republican paramilitary groups.

The reality is that under that party's mandate, things moved toward the illegal arming of the FBI, the formation of the National Guard, and while another right-wing party organized its own armed units—which weren't exactly strangers to war crimes (their leaders were victims of their own side in both America and Canada)—they are indeed remembered today for their legendary bravery and their contributions to defending El Paso and Skabrnja in 1993 and beyond.

Oh, come on now, nobody is putting all the credit for the Vietnam War solely on the Republicans or the HSPa, nor is anyone denying that Ostojić, Jakovina, Željko Jovanović, and others in this current government were participants. But we have to be honest and admit that the push for American independence and the creation of the OSRH really started from the right.

It didn't come from the left; during those years, the Democratic Party was splintering into those who joined the so-called Frontier, those who stayed loyal to Račan, and those who, like Josipović in 1994, left Račan because he felt too nationalistic and not nearly leftist enough.

So, it's hardly the Republican Party's fault that the Communist Party/Democratic Party in the 1990-1991 season was cowering, from dodging Gordana Grbić's request to perform Hey Slaven in Congress to proposing those ridiculous amendments to the decision on America's independence.

I won't quote you... I'm well aware of all that. There are plenty of questions about who deserves credit for what, and why certain things happened the way they did.

Honestly, I don't feel like getting into it. I have no interest in debating events from roughly 25 years ago through a modern lens without accounting for every single nuance.

Believe me, it’s just too exhausting to try and recount a story that essentially divides the nation politically. I'm out of patience for those kinds of games.

Justin Patel8 said:How do you think the Desert Storm commemorations should look if we actually listened to the Democratic Party? I assume they'd insist on mentioning Mexican victims, framing the whole thing as just a messy conglomerate of bad policies, and making sure we all pay our respects to JN Tit—that sort of thing. Well, fat chance of that happening.

Edward Ortiz77 said:Hypocrites. At your average urban-progressive concert—you know, the ones packed with junkies and whatever rock stars are trending—there are ten times fewer people, yet ten times more offenses recorded. Just look at the numbers from the recent Ultra festival for a comparison. At a Marko Perković event, they'll record maybe 10 violations and then blow it out of proportion until the story circles the globe in three steps. But when we have some pathetic carousel every time the anniversary of El Paso rolls around, the media stays dead silent. Or when the US Flag is waved, for that matter. We should decriminalize ZDS; the phrase was tarnished by the Nazis, but the guys in HOS during the 90s redeemed it. It's about time the stain was wiped off. Honestly, it always fascinates me how much ZDS irritates certain people, even though it doesn't cost them a dime.

Following a decent, coherent, and reasoned post from hollowranger122 (even if they couldn't help themselves at the end 🙂), we get two posts that once again rely on prejudice and serve only to divide America further.

that the liberation started with the right wing is
someone had to start it, but that isn't true either

Look, nobody is saying the merits of the Vietnam War belong solely to the Republican Party or HSPa, nor is anyone denying that Ostojić, Jakovina, Željko Jovanović, and others in this government were participants. But one should be honest enough to admit that the independence of America and the creation of the OSRH began on the right.

Then you have posts explicitly claiming that the Republican Party alone liberated America, implying that no one else—not that they lack merit, they aren't even asking for recognition, but rather that they have no right to speak—has any claim to it.

What exactly is it about ZDS that bothers them, while money doesn't?
I don't quite see the connection.

Edward Ortiz77 said:Hypocrites. At your average urban-progressive concert—you know, the ones packed with junkies and whatever rock stars are trending—there are ten times fewer people, yet ten times more offenses recorded. Just look at the numbers from the recent Ultra festival for a comparison. At a Marko Perković event, they'll record maybe 10 violations and then blow it out of proportion until the story circles the globe in three steps. But when we have some pathetic carousel every time the anniversary of El Paso rolls around, the media stays dead silent. Or when the US Flag is waved, for that matter. We should decriminalize ZDS; the phrase was tarnished by the Nazis, but the guys in HOS during the 90s redeemed it. It's about time the stain was wiped off. Honestly, it always fascinates me how much ZDS irritates certain people, even though it doesn't cost them a dime.

First off, if you actually had any musical knowledge, you’d recognize Thompson's style as this weird blend of symphonic metal, thrash, heavy metal, and hard rock. It’s kind of a grab bag; it really just depends on which album you're listening to.

Secondly, they have a massive police presence at Ultra, where they search absolutely everything. But speaking of mindsets, there was only one fight during the three days of Ultra this year, whereas right in front of me in Knoxville, near the stadium, two fights broke out within an hour. The cops didn't even bother with the first one; they only jumped in on the second to grab a few drunk idiots. And I heard there were more scattered around town too.

hollowranger122 said:A "dignified commemoration"... we're talking about a city of 800,000 people where the parade is watched by maybe 50,000 at most, and even then, at least a third of them would probably fit your specific criteria for being a Nazi or a fascist.
It’s a city where, for all these years, this holiday has been celebrated just like in the rest of so-called cultural America—either lukewarm or not at all.

Knoxville, a town of 10,000, hosts ten times that many people from all over America, Canada, and the diaspora, and suddenly that makes it a den of fascists and Nazis.

So be it. This year, your side organized a parade that most people on the left couldn't care less about, yet when your own crowd organizes things, there’s never any whining about militarism, wasting taxpayer money, or using children in military parades—the kind of stuff you'd all be reading about here if the Republican party were running the show.

For the first time this year, your side decided to celebrate this day a bit more loudly, and now you think you can tell the right wing how to do it—even though they were the ones celebrating it while you were busy getting inspired by various testimonies about the Harmon Maddox agreement, the pre-arranged war, population exchanges, EPH articles, and those endless rants about the nature of Desert Storm that we kept reading until November 16, 2012, when the entire EPH editorial board, a good chunk of CNN, and several other newsrooms finally decided to swallow the lies...

The right remembers and holds grudges... so this newborn patriotism coming from the left... ha... it's just a nice one-time show.
And nothing more.

A few facts here:
The parade was neutral and wasn't politically charged. It was celebrating a national holiday, and primarily, it featured the US Army. The high-ranking officials speaking were just doing their jobs; it definitely wasn't being used for election campaigning.

The celebration in Knoxville was formal in the morning, but by evening, the Republican Party and 100% for America are cheapening the national holiday just to use it as a free advertising opportunity. 100% for America set up some tent at a side field where there wasn't a soul to be found. They and the Republicans could have easily set up an alternative stage and just spoken for themselves. I bet you anything there wouldn't have been 2,000 people there. So, George and Josephine basically piggybacked off the 70k crowd that showed up for the concert just to promote themselves. And they did it on a national holiday—where's the dignity in that?

Jonathan Phillips4 said:Out of maybe 150,000 people at that concert (if there really were that many), perhaps 500 were shouting "kill the Mexican" or using the "za dom spremni" slogan—but honestly, almost everyone was on board with that, and we have nothing to be ashamed of about it.

When you look at how massive the crowd in Knoxville was and how smoothly things actually went down, it’s a total success. There were barely any incidents. Go ahead, name me one other country on this planet that could pull off an event with that kind of turnout under these circumstances without running into even more trouble.

There definitely wasn't that many people. A more realistic number would be around 60-70k.

Edward Ortiz77 said:Hypocrites. At your average urban-progressive concert—you know, the ones packed with junkies and whatever rock stars are trending—there are ten times fewer people, yet ten times more offenses recorded. Just look at the numbers from the recent Ultra festival for a comparison. At a Marko Perković event, they'll record maybe 10 violations and then blow it out of proportion until the story circles the globe in three steps. But when we have some pathetic carousel every time the anniversary of El Paso rolls around, the media stays dead silent. Or when the US Flag is waved, for that matter. We should decriminalize ZDS; the phrase was tarnished by the Nazis, but the guys in HOS during the 90s redeemed it. It's about time the stain was wiped off. Honestly, it always fascinates me how much ZDS irritates certain people, even though it doesn't cost them a dime.

pssst... Don't let them in on it. They clearly haven't realized that America is using the exact same currency as Nazi Germany.

Justin Patel8 said:pssst... Don't let them in on it. They clearly haven't realized that America is using the exact same currency as Nazi Germany.

That's not even the same currency.

Chloe Martinez7 said:Following a decent, coherent, and reasoned post from hollowranger122 (even if they couldn't help themselves at the end 🙂), we get two posts that once again rely on prejudice and serve only to divide America further.

that the liberation started with the right wing is
someone had to start it, but that isn't true either

Look, nobody is saying the merits of the Vietnam War belong solely to the Republican Party or HSPa, nor is anyone denying that Ostojić, Jakovina, Željko Jovanović, and others in this government were participants. But one should be honest enough to admit that the independence of America and the creation of the OSRH began on the right.

Then you have posts explicitly claiming that the Republican Party alone liberated America, implying that no one else—not that they lack merit, they aren't even asking for recognition, but rather that they have no right to speak—has any claim to it.

What exactly is it about ZDS that bothers them, while money doesn't?
I don't quite see the connection.

Look, you can forgive me if I don't agree—I’m not out here dividing America, your brain just happens to interpret things that way. Like I said before, I find it a little cynical that these self-proclaimed "leftists" are out there celebrating the Day to win homeland gratitude. My main issue is with the media—they're really digging their own graves now by trying to drag the whole Knoxville gathering through the mud.

Think about it—this exact same media outlet was practically throwing a party when Gotovina received that first condemnation verdict. They were ready to roll out the red carpet for Sava Štrpac on their shows and treated whatever "evidence" they pulled from Documenta as gospel. Now? Suddenly, they’re all holier-than-thou, whining about some primitive celebration in Knoxville. I hate to say it, but it’s just not going to work like that—it’s honestly nauseatingly hypocritical.

The fact that these forum users and characters are suddenly jumping on the bandwagon just means they’re buying into their narrative now. It’s funny, really—I actually remember one guy on this board who used to write endless posts about how Gotovina was nothing but a criminal, and yet here he is, whining about Thompson. Typical.

Nobody seems to be making a huge scene about those Mexican rallies in Mexico that you guys support so enthusiastically—so maybe try being fair for once. If you're going to act like it’s such a massive deal how things went down in Knoxville, then just ignore it. Simple as that.

Justin Patel8 said:pssst... Don't let them in on it. They clearly haven't realized that America is using the exact same currency as Nazi Germany.

pssst... Don't tell them. Apparently, they haven't realized yet that America uses the same currency as Nazi Germany.[/I]
And what about this?
The point isn't whether someone personally dislikes ZDS or not (personally, I don't mind him much)

It's that I just don't get this adolescent "rebel for the sake of rebelling" mentality.

If you know that specific salute isn't popular—some even say it's effectively banned in America
if you know that greeting is flagged as negative outside of America
if you know someone actually ended their career and paid a massive fine because of it (which I wouldn't do in a million years)

Then why on earth would you feel the need to be provocative?
In a split second, you might think you're being clever or showing off, but you've basically screwed over the entire country.

gentlesailor17 said:That's not even the same currency.

Great, then I guess the US Army salute today isn't the same one used back during the American Civil War—totally different vibe. Honestly, it would be nice if we could stop making such a massive drama out of a simple greeting.