Atheism vs. Spirituality: Zero Tolerance

silentviper19 said:Man, you're acting like you're headed for Mount Everest or Tibet or something! What are you even looking for down here on Earth? Just staring at these empty fantasies sold by science, progress, and technology? It's all just colorful illusions, really. None of it helps with the one big thing you're constantly banging on about—this famous "self-knowledge." That term is always so vague because it's purely subjective, anyway. Not to mention there's zero scientific proof that this "self-knowledge" even exists, let alone that anyone should be spending their life chasing it.

You're clearly missing my point entirely. But honestly, it doesn't matter anymore; we're just not going to see eye to eye.

I don't need to trek across the globe to become who I am. Before anyone can truly understand themselves, they need to achieve balance—specifically, eliminating negative thoughts and toxic emotions as a systematic habit. If you want to see the world and things as they actually are, you first have to master the things you actually control: your own thoughts and emotions. Otherwise, you're just a slave to daily dissatisfaction, fear, sadness, regret, and anger. It's a cycle of compulsive reactions. Mastering yourself is the fundamental starting point.

It’s honestly pretty tough to find common ground sometimes—especially when you’re dealing with people on the complete opposite side of the spectrum

but I guess, if there's any real point to all this forum stuff, it eventually boils down to this one thing—that at the end of the day, you might actually walk away understanding yourself a little better than before🙂

Paul Jones7 said:It’s honestly pretty tough to find common ground sometimes—especially when you’re dealing with people on the complete opposite side of the spectrum

but I guess, if there's any real point to all this forum stuff, it eventually boils down to this one thing—that at the end of the day, you might actually walk away understanding yourself a little better than before🙂

Thought of the day? 🙂

Not bad—though sometimes I’d really love to actually connect with someone I'm talking to (not just find an echo chamber!)... but hey, maybe that's why I don't bother posting on those spiritual boards much. 😁

Anthony Taylor393 said:Writing this as an agnostic who’s pretty fed up with a certain mindset I see popping up among some of our atheist and agnostic circles (specifically one group over on Meta) which basically claims we shouldn't show "any intellectual tolerance toward believers."

Personally, I find that whole vibe totally repellant. I get where they're coming from when they're tearing into hardline religious fundamentalists, but why does everything have to be viewed through such a negative lens? Why can't we admit that faith has actually inspired people to create, explore the world, produce timeless art, and even drive scientific breakthroughs?
I mean, look at Gregor Mendel—the guy was a humble priest and the literal father of modern genetics. He's just one in a long line of people we should probably feel embarrassed by, apparently, just because they dared to flirt with the idea of something beyond this world.

Honestly, the whole "militant atheism is the only way" thing? It gives me the creeps.

Once people truly grasp the core purpose of existence, they'll see that organized religion is often just a tool for manipulation. There is energy and there is consciousness out there. At the end of the day, all that matters is turning toward true spirituality. Atheism, agnosticism, and religion are mostly just illusions—forms of negativity that many people cling to.

When I talk about religion, I’m referring to its darker side—they rarely seem to hold much in the way of anything positive.

Once people realize that, all they'll have left is spirituality that exists outside of religion and any kind of rigid mold.

silentviper19 said:Man, the way you spin things is wild. It honestly makes me wonder how people who are clearly smart can wade through such shallow streams of ignorance and hypocrisy.

You're an atheist and a materialist just like me, yet somehow you claim to have some "spiritual energy" that I lack because I'm being principled while you aren't. Because, in my book, either all miracles and spiritual experiences are real, or none of them are.

And you say we pull our determinism from different sources?? That's just not right.
You're pulling from both, whereas I stick to just one. See, you don't believe in Santa Claus, and you definitely don't think Zeus sent spiritual energy to Milan via tarot cards, but I bet you still believe in the Resurrection.

Now it's my turn to speak up—thanks, Joe, but I've realized there's really nothing left for me to look for here.

Though, I’m still not quite sure about visionary Milan... the troll is strong with him. That charisma is something else... truly unbelievable. 😲

silentviper19 said:Man, the way you spin things is wild. It honestly makes me wonder how people who are clearly smart can wade through such shallow streams of ignorance and hypocrisy.

You're an atheist and a materialist just like me, yet somehow you claim to have some "spiritual energy" that I lack because I'm being principled while you aren't. Because, in my book, either all miracles and spiritual experiences are real, or none of them are.

And you say we pull our determinism from different sources?? That's just not right.
You're pulling from both, whereas I stick to just one. See, you don't believe in Santa Claus, and you definitely don't think Zeus sent spiritual energy to Milan via tarot cards, but I bet you still believe in the Resurrection.

Option A.

Option B:

Error: System failure > purge data

Joseph Bailey41 said:Look, there’s certainly a wide variety of people in this discussion. But if you think about it, religion, by its very definition, acts as a middleman between an individual and the spiritual—the soul, or whatever term you prefer to use for that higher connection. By inserting itself into that space, it actually makes direct contact harder to achieve, all while serving as a tool to manipulate the masses for purely material gains. I'm not saying there aren't some good people within these institutions, but fundamentally, I believe organized religion ends up being detrimental to the human spirit.

You aren't actually an atheist at all; you're more of a panentheist. Check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism.

What makes you conclude it's pantheism based on the quote? You might actually be right this time, but I get the feeling people tend to label anything that isn't strictly theism or atheism as pantheism. It feels like a lazy catch-all category for any other kind of spirituality, when in reality, there's a whole spectrum of metaphysical models beyond just those three.

It’s always the same old argument: "all atheists are actually believers who just don't realize it yet." Honestly, as long as people keep pushing that kind of nonsense, I’m sticking firmly to my identity as an atheist. I'll leave the "spiritual shopping" via Wikipedia searches to someone else when times are better.

And then there’s this whole business of declaring oneself...😵
Who actually needs a census on how many atheists or believers are out there?
It isn't like you can go apply for a job based on being an atheist—as if there were some specialized niche waiting for someone holding a first class certificate. 🤣
I mean, really, who is this for? Being an atheist, or, well, the alternative, obviously. 😁

Larry Moore83 said:And then there’s this whole business of declaring oneself...😵
Who actually needs a census on how many atheists or believers are out there?
It isn't like you can go apply for a job based on being an atheist—as if there were some specialized niche waiting for someone holding a first class certificate. 🤣
I mean, really, who is this for? Being an atheist, or, well, the alternative, obviously. 😁

Maybe this will actually matter to someone at some point—I guess. If they’re really planning to print zodiac signs on everyone's driver's licenses, they might as well just include whether you're a believer or an atheist while they're at it.
So, I guess we could actually start asking ourselves who—or what—these divisions would even serve.

Larry Moore83 said:And then there’s this whole business of declaring oneself...😵
Who actually needs a census on how many atheists or believers are out there?
It isn't like you can go apply for a job based on being an atheist—as if there were some specialized niche waiting for someone holding a first class certificate. 🤣
I mean, really, who is this for? Being an atheist, or, well, the alternative, obviously. 😁

I’ll happily take the atheist stance against Vatican City, but you, my friend, can be whoever you want to be. Honestly, it’s your call. As far as I know, there isn't a contract signed with the devil in Canada... so you should be fine for now... at least until those fanatics start showing up in much larger numbers.

Maria Robinson2 said:Maybe this will actually matter to someone at some point—I guess. If they’re really planning to print zodiac signs on everyone's driver's licenses, they might as well just include whether you're a believer or an atheist while they're at it.
So, I guess we could actually start asking ourselves who—or what—these divisions would even serve.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I’ll happily take the atheist stance against Vatican City, but you, my friend, can be whoever you want to be. Honestly, it’s your call. As far as I know, there isn't a contract signed with the devil in Canada... so you should be fine for now... at least until those fanatics start showing up in much larger numbers.

So, what you're saying is... we should be arming ourselves? Is that really where we're headed? 😁
In that case—I’ll just grab my five-pointed star, pin it right to my headband, and let's go!🎉

It’s just me and a guy wearing a three-horned hat fighting against God... though not against Christ, since he was basically a communist.

🙂

Joseph Bailey41 said:It’s just me and a guy wearing a three-horned hat fighting against God... though not against Christ, since he was basically a communist.

🙂

🙏
I hadn't heard that one before.
But tell me—did anyone ever go around shouting, "Hey, Comrade Jesus!"? 🤔

Larry Moore83 said:So, what you're saying is... we should be arming ourselves? Is that really where we're headed? 😁
In that case—I’ll just grab my five-pointed star, pin it right to my headband, and let's go!🎉

We aren't doing that—we're human beings, after all.

Maria Robinson2 said:We aren't doing that—we're human beings, after all.

Well, of course we are human.
Besides, stating the obvious feels a bit... I don't know, totally anachronistic at this point, wouldn't you agree? 😁

Let’s not descend into nonsense, please.

Jesus was essentially a reactionary anti-communist—or at least, that's how a communist would frame it when asking, "Render unto God what is God's, and unto Caesar what is Caesar's?"

As for those driver's licenses, I heard a rumor that they’ve started printing actual photos on them now, not just those astrological signs...

Anthony Taylor393 said:Writing this as an agnostic who’s pretty fed up with a certain mindset I see popping up among some of our atheist and agnostic circles (specifically one group over on Meta) which basically claims we shouldn't show "any intellectual tolerance toward believers."

Personally, I find that whole vibe totally repellant. I get where they're coming from when they're tearing into hardline religious fundamentalists, but why does everything have to be viewed through such a negative lens? Why can't we admit that faith has actually inspired people to create, explore the world, produce timeless art, and even drive scientific breakthroughs?
I mean, look at Gregor Mendel—the guy was a humble priest and the literal father of modern genetics. He's just one in a long line of people we should probably feel embarrassed by, apparently, just because they dared to flirt with the idea of something beyond this world.

Honestly, the whole "militant atheism is the only way" thing? It gives me the creeps.

If I believe in God, His existence remains unchanged regardless; if I don't, I certainly can't threaten it. It’s a different matter entirely when I feel His presence in my own life—that's why I know He exists, and that realization is what fuels my faith.

About two years ago, I signed up for a Catholic forum online. I consider myself Catholic, but I experience God in a non-traditional way, holding spiritual views that diverge from standard dogma. On that forum, I started threads and engaged in debates quite frequently. I often critiqued the Church's institutional methods and wrote about beliefs from other religions. Through it all, I stayed civil, never once resorting to profanity or insults against other members.

They, however, threw every insult in the book at me. They called me evil and a Satanist. The moderators and admins would delete my posts, issue bans, send threatening private messages, and shut down any thread I started that didn't align with their version of mainstream Catholic belief. When I complained about being insulted and harassed by other users, the mods did nothing. Instead, they told me if I started one more thread that challenged their orthodoxy, I’d face a permanent ban.

At the end of the day, both sides of the internet are cut from the same cloth: believers spit on non-believers, and non-believers do the same to them.

Larry Moore83 said:Well, of course we are human.
Besides, stating the obvious feels a bit... I don't know, totally anachronistic at this point, wouldn't you agree? 😁

Total hipster move. ☕