Attachment and Suffering

wearyowl29 said:At the end of the day, life feels like one giant balancing act—just a collection of psychological tricks we use to feel steady and "normal" again. 👏

Honestly, you can't have happiness without some kind of illusion. That’s just how we get through it. Like, an alcoholic might drink every single day, while someone else stays super healthy, prays, and works hard—but both are living in their own little bubble. If they didn't have that mental cushion, they'd probably just give up entirely. 😁

Thomas Nelson25 said:Honestly, you can't have happiness without some kind of illusion. That’s just how we get through it. Like, an alcoholic might drink every single day, while someone else stays super healthy, prays, and works hard—but both are living in their own little bubble. If they didn't have that mental cushion, they'd probably just give up entirely. 😁

Spot on! Life is actually so heavy that most of us would check out immediately if it weren't for something to cling to. Whether it's a belief system, religion, a political ideology, sex, good food, a drink, a dopamine hit from a hobby, or some kind of mental buffer—we need that distraction to stay afloat.

Albert Camus once noted that in a world stripped of illusions, man becomes a stranger.

Maria Robinson2 said:Suffering as an inherent part of existence? Hmm—an interesting thought, I suppose.

I assume you're already aware of this... I suppose this video attempts to make a point—though whether it actually succeeds is debatable. It’s fine, I guess.
I suppose I'll just post it anyway—it probably won't hurt to have a bit more clarity regarding what we're actually discussing, I guess.

I've had several encounters with Buddhists over the years—they'd show up at my door offering books, and I'd actually sit and listen, read their material, and even engage in dialogue with others in the community. Yet, it always seems to boil down to the same thing—either they don't quite grasp what they’re saying to others, or perhaps they don't fully understand themselves while they're talking. Not to be rude, obviously, but that's just the impression I get when they start philosophizing about various "existences." It isn't much surprising, though—Buddhism is essentially agnosticism, which is basically just "let's speculate about the cosmos because we might be a tiny speck within it." Whether we are part of some grand cosmic design or not—well, I guess that will remain a mystery; people seem to crave mysticism, and Buddhism provides exactly that.

In the long run, whether it's suffering or just general dissatisfaction, it hits everyone the same way—even the most hardcore materialists or the die-hard theists.

There are tons of different versions of Buddhism out there. Not sure which ones you ran into, but personally, I'm only interested in the actual philosophical, ontological side of things.

That video gets some points right, but a lot of it is just propaganda born from a total lack of understanding of the philosophy. 😁

wearyowl29 said:Spot on! Life is actually so heavy that most of us would check out immediately if it weren't for something to cling to. Whether it's a belief system, religion, a political ideology, sex, good food, a drink, a dopamine hit from a hobby, or some kind of mental buffer—we need that distraction to stay afloat.

Albert Camus once noted that in a world stripped of illusions, man becomes a stranger.

Yeah, for sure. And honestly? If we're gonna deal with illusions, better they be the positive, creative ones that actually build life up, rather than those depressing, dark, destructive types... like Eros and Thanatos.

Justin Garcia7 said:So, would that imply that if someone reached the peak of spiritual enlightenment and lost their own child, they wouldn't feel any pain at all? If they actually suffer, then by that logic, they can't be a perfect soul or truly grasp the Truth. Clearly, something isn't adding up if "suffering" is still part of the equation... just a somewhat simplistic way of looking at it, I guess. ☕

Of course it’s hard when you lose someone you love, especially when it's a child, but the real question is whether that person understands what is actually causing their grief and potential suffering.
The sadness that hits us isn't actually tied to the person who passed away—they’ve simply returned to their original home, so we shouldn't be grieving them per se—rather, the sorrow is centered on us because we are left behind to deal with the reality that we'll never see them again, which is really just a form of selfishness born from our attachment to the physical world or this flawed idea that life ends when the body dies.
A spiritually awakened person understands that while the body is mortal, the soul is eternal, so they can certainly mourn a momentary loss—which is a perfectly natural human reaction—but there is no need to fall into true suffering.

Thomas Nelson25 said:In the long run, whether it's suffering or just general dissatisfaction, it hits everyone the same way—even the most hardcore materialists or the die-hard theists.

There are tons of different versions of Buddhism out there. Not sure which ones you ran into, but personally, I'm only interested in the actual philosophical, ontological side of things.

That video gets some points right, but a lot of it is just propaganda born from a total lack of understanding of the philosophy. 😁

Where exactly did I say they were proselytizing? It seems people rarely bother to actually read my posts properly. I guess.

As for why there are various forms of Buddhism—perhaps it is because of those "eight stages" Buddhists can never quite reach, so they just decided to change their business model?

Maria Robinson2 said:Where exactly did I say they were proselytizing? It seems people rarely bother to actually read my posts properly. I guess.

As for why there are various forms of Buddhism—perhaps it is because of those "eight stages" Buddhists can never quite reach, so they just decided to change their business model?

You know why I dig that philosophy—it’s because they claim there's no soul and nothing lasts. Honestly, isn't that like the ultimate peak of human insight?

Maybe it's the Tibetan thing—they've got extra steps involved and it gets super complicated... lots of stuff about death and reincarnation on demand...

Thomas Nelson25 said:You know why I dig that philosophy—it’s because they claim there's no soul and nothing lasts. Honestly, isn't that like the ultimate peak of human insight?

Maybe it's the Tibetan thing—they've got extra steps involved and it gets super complicated... lots of stuff about death and reincarnation on demand...

But there is Consciousness. 🙂 Some might say you're splitting hairs, especially regarding that whole "nothing lasts" idea (except for the thing that possesses permanence as its very nature—you know, the thing that remains regardless of how fleeting everything else is). Because if "Nothingness" actually existed as a thing, well, now that would be something. Just kidding. 😁

Michael Gonzalez77 said:But there is Consciousness. 🙂 Some might say you're splitting hairs, especially regarding that whole "nothing lasts" idea (except for the thing that possesses permanence as its very nature—you know, the thing that remains regardless of how fleeting everything else is). Because if "Nothingness" actually existed as a thing, well, now that would be something. Just kidding. 😁

I suspect Gautama Buddha might have a different take on that.

Daniel Castillo11 said:I suspect Gautama Buddha might have a different take on that.

And who even is this guy? I haven't seen him around here before... 🤔

Anyway, everyone is free to disagree with me. I'm certainly not hoarding the right to have an opinion all to myself. 😁

🙂

Thomas Nelson25 said:You know why I dig that philosophy—it’s because they claim there's no soul and nothing lasts. Honestly, isn't that like the ultimate peak of human insight?

Maybe it's the Tibetan thing—they've got extra steps involved and it gets super complicated... lots of stuff about death and reincarnation on demand...

I get it.
Look, I'm not a Buddhist, so it's not even about belief for me—I just know that once you're dead, it's over. It's basically just "you did what you did while you were alive."

Michael Gonzalez77 said:But there is Consciousness. 🙂 Some might say you're splitting hairs, especially regarding that whole "nothing lasts" idea (except for the thing that possesses permanence as its very nature—you know, the thing that remains regardless of how fleeting everything else is). Because if "Nothingness" actually existed as a thing, well, now that would be something. Just kidding. 😁

There's no soul or permanent self—everything is just fleeting and depends on how much the "I" clings to this or that, or even just clinging to itself... that's the core controversy in Buddhism, along with the idea that God doesn't exist. There's a whole mountain of paradoxes there, but whatever—we aren't here to debate Buddhism, and I'm not trying to be some preacher or anything. It's just stuff people either vibe with or don't.

Maria Robinson2 said:I get it.
Look, I'm not a Buddhist, so it's not even about belief for me—I just know that once you're dead, it's over. It's basically just "you did what you did while you were alive."

haha, maybe tomorrow 😁
how can you be so sure?

Thomas Nelson25 said:haha, maybe tomorrow 😁
how can you be so sure?

not tomorrow—more like today, I suppose 🙂
perhaps you assumed there aren't any non-Buddhists who understand this better than actual Buddhists?

clinging to suffering... isn't exactly a great recommendation for people actually living their lives.

Thomas Nelson25 said:There's no soul or permanent self—everything is just fleeting and depends on how much the "I" clings to this or that, or even just clinging to itself... that's the core controversy in Buddhism, along with the idea that God doesn't exist. There's a whole mountain of paradoxes there, but whatever—we aren't here to debate Buddhism, and I'm not trying to be some preacher or anything. It's just stuff people either vibe with or don't.

But there is 'Consciousness' that acts as the observer of that state. It exists, period. 🙂 Of course, if someone defines 'consciousness' differently than how I’m using it, they won't understand why I'm bringing it up. To me, consciousness isn't just being 'self-aware.' Consciousness is simply the 'is-ness' of it all, whether it's manifested or not.

Still, we can definitely lean on Buddhist concepts here, since they really sit at the very heart of that entire philosophy.

Maria Robinson2 said:not tomorrow—more like today, I suppose 🙂
perhaps you assumed there aren't any non-Buddhists who understand this better than actual Buddhists?

clinging to suffering... isn't exactly a great recommendation for people actually living their lives.

man, you're totally labeling this as religion. 😉 you basically shoved me into a little box and now I'm just "Buddhism" to you 😁

look, I know what's real, I just can't put it into words—I'm just over here scribbling things down to swap ideas with folks who give a damn, same as me. everyone's got their own thing going on.

Michael Gonzalez77 said:But there is 'Consciousness' that acts as the observer of that state. It exists, period. 🙂 Of course, if someone defines 'consciousness' differently than how I’m using it, they won't understand why I'm bringing it up. To me, consciousness isn't just being 'self-aware.' Consciousness is simply the 'is-ness' of it all, whether it's manifested or not.

Still, we can definitely lean on Buddhist concepts here, since they really sit at the very heart of that entire philosophy.

So, I'm thinking... if there's no attachment (mostly emotions, then sensations, thoughts, abstractions, etc.—you know the drill), and there's no consciousness at all (whatever kind you mean), are you talking about an experience?

We've got mystical experiences that drive emotions, and then there's the intuitive side—without the hype. Personally, I think the latter is way better for actual realization.

Or like what Buddhists say... sort of like "seeing things as they truly are."

Thomas Nelson25 said:So, I'm thinking... if there's no attachment (mostly emotions, then sensations, thoughts, abstractions, etc.—you know the drill), and there's no consciousness at all (whatever kind you mean), are you talking about an experience?

We've got mystical experiences that drive emotions, and then there's the intuitive side—without the hype. Personally, I think the latter is way better for actual realization.

Or like what Buddhists say... sort of like "seeing things as they truly are."

That would just be an idea, then. Everything taught by Buddhists (Gautama Buddha) is meant to be rooted in actual lived experience, not some made-up concept or just believing in a fiction. In that sense, Consciousness is the only thing that matters. The difference lies in how one perceives it relative to its content—where the mind becomes empty and experiences 'Niban,' which is the gateway to Realization.

Without Consciousness, there is neither perception nor any kind of experience—whether "permanent" or "impermanent." Everything happens exclusively within Consciousness (God).

Thomas Nelson25 said:So, I'm thinking... if there's no attachment (mostly emotions, then sensations, thoughts, abstractions, etc.—you know the drill), and there's no consciousness at all (whatever kind you mean), are you talking about an experience?

We've got mystical experiences that drive emotions, and then there's the intuitive side—without the hype. Personally, I think the latter is way better for actual realization.

Or like what Buddhists say... sort of like "seeing things as they truly are."

That’s actually the fundamental requirement for any human being—which really means seeing without being weighed down by memory.

Michael Gonzalez77 said:That would just be an idea, then. Everything taught by Buddhists (Gautama Buddha) is meant to be rooted in actual lived experience, not some made-up concept or just believing in a fiction. In that sense, Consciousness is the only thing that matters. The difference lies in how one perceives it relative to its content—where the mind becomes empty and experiences 'Niban,' which is the gateway to Realization.

Without Consciousness, there is neither perception nor any kind of experience—whether "permanent" or "impermanent." Everything happens exclusively within Consciousness (God).

Well, their whole metaphysics revolves around suffering, impermanence... and the idea that nothing lasts, not even me or the soul.

I called it controversial—not just my take, everyone says it (you already knew that, right 😉) —but I haven't personally experienced it, so I can't tell you for sure. Still, it makes sense to me... just strip away space and time and you've got nirvana.