Nosy banks

George Barrett35 said:The FATCA questionnaire has absolutely nothing to do with the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing questionnaire.

Just so we’re all clear once and for all, the FinCEN questionnaire isn't strictly defined by statute—in fact, no specific form is—but rather by the Hub based on guidelines issued by FinCEN.

A few relevant sections from the law:

Customer Due Diligence Measures
Section 8.
(1) Unless otherwise provided by this Act, customer due diligence includes the following measures:
1. identifying the customer and verifying their identity based on documents, data, or information obtained from a reliable, dependable, and independent source,
2. identifying and verifying the identity of the customer's beneficial owner,
3. collecting data regarding the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship or transaction, along with other data required under this Act,,
...

Data Collection
Section 25.
(1) As part of customer due diligence, when establishing a business relationship under Section 9, subsection 1, point 1 of this Act, the obligated entity collects data pursuant to Section 16. subsection 1, points 1, 4, 5, 7. and 8 of this Act.
...

Obtaining Data by Obligated Entities
Section 16.
...
7. data concerning the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship, including information about the customer's business activities;;
...

Section 7.
...
(2) The obligated entity is required to conduct a risk analysis and, using that analysis, determine the risk rating for a specific group or type of customer, business relationship, product, or transaction relative to potential abuses related to money laundering or terrorist financing.

So, look, just basic identifiers (name, address, SSN, place of birth...) aren't nearly enough for due diligence or for categorizing a client into a risk group; you also need additional data regarding the intended purpose and nature of the business relationship.

That is exactly what this Questionnaire is for:
I don't know about other banks, but at Chase, the questionnaire covers exclusively this type of data.

Obviously, you can always refuse to give the bank the information they ask for, but they can refuse to open an account or unilaterally terminate the business relationship with the client (and they probably will).

Refusal of Business Relationships and Transactions
Section 13.
(1) An obligated entity that cannot carry out the measures set forth in Section 8, subsection 1, points 1, 2, and 3 of this Act, shall not establish a business relationship or execute a transaction, specifically...is forced to terminate an existing business relationship.

Who said they were connected? People just lump them together because they both get shoved down your throat at once.

George Barrett35 said:The FATCA questionnaire has absolutely nothing to do with the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing questionnaire.

Just so we’re all clear once and for all, the FinCEN questionnaire isn't strictly defined by statute—in fact, no specific form is—but rather by the Hub based on guidelines issued by FinCEN.

A few relevant sections from the law:

Customer Due Diligence Measures
Section 8.
(1) Unless otherwise provided by this Act, customer due diligence includes the following measures:
1. identifying the customer and verifying their identity based on documents, data, or information obtained from a reliable, dependable, and independent source,
2. identifying and verifying the identity of the customer's beneficial owner,
3. collecting data regarding the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship or transaction, along with other data required under this Act,,
...

Data Collection
Section 25.
(1) As part of customer due diligence, when establishing a business relationship under Section 9, subsection 1, point 1 of this Act, the obligated entity collects data pursuant to Section 16. subsection 1, points 1, 4, 5, 7. and 8 of this Act.
...

Obtaining Data by Obligated Entities
Section 16.
...
7. data concerning the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship, including information about the customer's business activities;;
...

Section 7.
...
(2) The obligated entity is required to conduct a risk analysis and, using that analysis, determine the risk rating for a specific group or type of customer, business relationship, product, or transaction relative to potential abuses related to money laundering or terrorist financing.

So, look, just basic identifiers (name, address, SSN, place of birth...) aren't nearly enough for due diligence or for categorizing a client into a risk group; you also need additional data regarding the intended purpose and nature of the business relationship.

That is exactly what this Questionnaire is for:
I don't know about other banks, but at Chase, the questionnaire covers exclusively this type of data.

Obviously, you can always refuse to give the bank the information they ask for, but they can refuse to open an account or unilaterally terminate the business relationship with the client (and they probably will).

Refusal of Business Relationships and Transactions
Section 13.
(1) An obligated entity that cannot carry out the measures set forth in Section 8, subsection 1, points 1, 2, and 3 of this Act, shall not establish a business relationship or execute a transaction, specifically...is forced to terminate an existing business relationship.

Some are, even if they're usually governed by internal regulations. But the Hub can take their little internal rules and shove them. Their internal policy isn't legally binding for me. Especially when they try to (i) scrape data that counts as trade secrets, (ii) force guesses about future amounts, or (iii) demand info on transaction origins. It’s not like we all carry crystal balls.

If they shut someone's account based on non-mandatory data, I hope they enjoy explaining themselves in open court. 👍

Where in the law does it actually say a client is required to report changes to the Bank?
Quote:I’ll personally notify you if any of my previously stated details or information change. For more info, check this link—I'll just pull out this specific part:
Quote:...it was determined that these forms collect a significantly larger scope of personal data than what the Anti-Money Laundering Act requires, specifically collecting data stemming from the Tax Enforcement Agreement regarding accounts held in foreign financial institutions.

All I don't get is why they didn't explicitly add "for terrorism purposes" as an option next to "What is the purpose of opening an account at the Bank," because that's the only way this whole questionnaire makes sense. They'll have all the other data anyway after using the account for a month or two.

George Barrett35 said:The FATCA questionnaire has absolutely nothing to do with the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing questionnaire.

Just so we’re all clear once and for all, the FinCEN questionnaire isn't strictly defined by statute—in fact, no specific form is—but rather by the Hub based on guidelines issued by FinCEN.

A few relevant sections from the law:

Customer Due Diligence Measures
Section 8.
(1) Unless otherwise provided by this Act, customer due diligence includes the following measures:
1. identifying the customer and verifying their identity based on documents, data, or information obtained from a reliable, dependable, and independent source,
2. identifying and verifying the identity of the customer's beneficial owner,
3. collecting data regarding the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship or transaction, along with other data required under this Act,,
...

Data Collection
Section 25.
(1) As part of customer due diligence, when establishing a business relationship under Section 9, subsection 1, point 1 of this Act, the obligated entity collects data pursuant to Section 16. subsection 1, points 1, 4, 5, 7. and 8 of this Act.
...

Obtaining Data by Obligated Entities
Section 16.
...
7. data concerning the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship, including information about the customer's business activities;;
...

Section 7.
...
(2) The obligated entity is required to conduct a risk analysis and, using that analysis, determine the risk rating for a specific group or type of customer, business relationship, product, or transaction relative to potential abuses related to money laundering or terrorist financing.

So, look, just basic identifiers (name, address, SSN, place of birth...) aren't nearly enough for due diligence or for categorizing a client into a risk group; you also need additional data regarding the intended purpose and nature of the business relationship.

That is exactly what this Questionnaire is for:
I don't know about other banks, but at Chase, the questionnaire covers exclusively this type of data.

Obviously, you can always refuse to give the bank the information they ask for, but they can refuse to open an account or unilaterally terminate the business relationship with the client (and they probably will).

Refusal of Business Relationships and Transactions
Section 13.
(1) An obligated entity that cannot carry out the measures set forth in Section 8, subsection 1, points 1, 2, and 3 of this Act, shall not establish a business relationship or execute a transaction, specifically...is forced to terminate an existing business relationship.

Has anyone else experienced this?
To be clear—the questionnaire itself isn't actually the issue... It’s more about the fact that they require you to sign off on it at the end—or essentially validate it, assuming we're talking about a corporate account... 🙂
And then there's the additional detail stating that... Personal data within this Questionnaire is collected and processed solely based on your explicit consent... Without my consent to even collect this data—let alone process it—in the first place... 🤮

Banks can shut down business relationships whenever they feel like it without offering a single shred of justification, because at the end of the day, they have total discretion over who they choose to do business with. Their only real legal obligation is to give the client a heads-up, so I honestly don't see any basis for trying to drag them into court over it.

Laura Chavez93 said:Has anyone else experienced this?
To be clear—the questionnaire itself isn't actually the issue... It’s more about the fact that they require you to sign off on it at the end—or essentially validate it, assuming we're talking about a corporate account... 🙂
And then there's the additional detail stating that... Personal data within this Questionnaire is collected and processed solely based on your explicit consent... Without my consent to even collect this data—let alone process it—in the first place... 🤮

I just can't believe it.
I mean, they don't have any real reason or incentive to do that during a transaction unless the law specifically forces their hand—and we're talking about anything over 10,000 $0.00.

Honestly, if anything, it's the clients who end up telling them to cut the crap, or they'll just grab their stuff, shut down the account, and move to a different bank entirely.

edit: even the questionnaire itself isn't the issue, it's more that they want you to sign off on it at the end, basically forcing you to comply (if it's a corporate account) 🙂
and then it goes on to say that personal data in this Questionnaire is being collected and processed based on your consent without me ever actually consenting to it being collected, let alone processed!?! 🤮

You should really look at how much extra stuff was tucked into that Hub's questionnaire that got linked a few times as "voluntary" additions to the basic form you have to sign.

George Barrett35 said:Banks can shut down business relationships whenever they feel like it without offering a single shred of justification, because at the end of the day, they have total discretion over who they choose to do business with. Their only real legal obligation is to give the client a heads-up, so I honestly don't see any basis for trying to drag them into court over it.

In this particular situation, there isn't some teller behind the counter who has been instructed to start canceling contracts over this kind of thing.
First off, it’s a direct hit to their profits automatically (fewer clients), and there's zero upside for them; second, if they were the ones to start doing this, they'd be the first to get a bad reputation, and people would just pack up and leave anyway; and third, even the employees themselves probably don't fully grasp what they're supposed to be asking for or why.

They have no interest in it, they aren't even totally sure what they're doing or why, and they have no motivation. So, I guess the chances of that happening are basically zero.

It's the customers who decide where to go; most would just wave it off and say "just close it," and those who aren't already planning to leave would likely be the first to speak up during an inquiry before the banks even have a chance to react.

-Stipe

This is honestly top-tier. I mean, normally if you want to close your own account, you have to deal with a week of endless paperwork and just fighting with the Bank, but this way? You basically just decide to give them hell and they'll just shut the whole thing down themselves for free.

Seriously great info to have. 👍

So, I decided to take matters into my own hands the other day and swung by one of my local Banks to finally close out an account I haven't touched in ages... They had me fill out the standard closure request, cut me a check for the remaining balance, and I signed off on everything—done and dusted. To my surprise, there weren't even any of those pesky account closing fees, which I don't think they've even charged in years, nor were there any opening fees back in the day either. The whole ordeal took maybe five to ten minutes tops.

Top tier service from Wells Fargo, right?

I mean, I know my neighbor was trying to close her account over in San Diego, and it was just five days of pure, absolute chaos... 😵

What kind of nonsense is this? 🤷
I honestly don't see where the issue lies—you show up one day to settle the details regarding the funds, and the next, you either receive the cash or transfer the balance to another Bank... I simply don't understand why anyone would need to make a five-day pilgrimage over matters like these...

They asked for a ton of paperwork, I honestly have no clue what all of it was, nor did I really care to find out... I mean, it’s not like I actually believe any of it, but still, that's why I'm asking.

I suppose I should address this now before the inevitable wave of misguided optimism sweeps through the forums. There’s a certain predictable pattern to how people react when things get turbulent, and frankly, watching it unfold is enough to make one yearn for a quiet corner and a very strong drink. It’s the same old story, really—people seeing a flicker of movement and assuming they've discovered fire, rather than realizing they're just standing near a controlled burn. It isn't about being pessimistic; it's about having the sense to look at the actual data instead of following the herd. We see it constantly: a minor shift occurs, and suddenly everyone is convinced they've found the next big thing. In my experience, that kind of fervor is usually the precursor to a very sharp reality check. If you aren't looking at the structural foundations of what's happening, you're essentially just gambling with high stakes and low intelligence. I’ve seen this cycle play out too many times to count. You start with a bit of excitement, move into a period of frantic activity, and end up with a lot of people wondering where all their capital went. It's exhausting to witness. My advice? Slow down. Stop reacting to every headline like it's a divine revelation. Real insight requires patience, a healthy dose of skepticism, and the ability to sit still while everyone else is running around like headless chickens. It’s not glamorous, but it’s the only way to stay sane in this business. As mistyfox9 says:
Top tier, Chase?

I know my neighbor was trying to close out her account over at Miami, and honestly, it was five days of absolute, unadulterated chaos. 😵

Look, I have absolutely zero interest in playing salesman for anyone. Honestly, the less work I have to do, the better. My goal is simple: pay my mortgage on time, keep using my prepaid card, and stay out of their way. That’s it. Most of the time, I just stick to the ATM, though I did get sucked into one of those endless surveys once. The real headache starts when you actually walk into a branch. As soon as you step through the door, they hit you with that "relationship banking" nonsense—you know, that aggressive push to sell you something. "Do you need this?" "This would be the most cost-effective option for you..." It's exhausting. With an ATM, nobody asks you any questions. You just get your business done and leave. 😁

Haha, we’re basically the same person... except when I need to withdraw my cash, I actually have to drag myself down to the local Chase branch, which is such a pain. But I usually just give them a call a day or two ahead of time to set everything up, and then I just walk in, grab my money, and tell them I don't want to hear any excuses—it's my cash, period. 😁

mistyfox9 said:

I suppose I should address this now before the inevitable wave of misguided optimism sweeps through the forums. There’s a certain predictable pattern to how people react when things get turbulent, and frankly, watching it unfold is enough to make one yearn for a quiet corner and a very strong drink. It’s the same old story, really—people seeing a flicker of movement and assuming they've discovered fire, rather than realizing they're just standing near a controlled burn. It isn't about being pessimistic; it's about having the sense to look at the actual data instead of following the herd. We see it constantly: a minor shift occurs, and suddenly everyone is convinced they've found the next big thing. In my experience, that kind of fervor is usually the precursor to a very sharp reality check. If you aren't looking at the structural foundations of what's happening, you're essentially just gambling with high stakes and low intelligence. I’ve seen this cycle play out too many times to count. You start with a bit of excitement, move into a period of frantic activity, and end up with a lot of people wondering where all their capital went. It's exhausting to witness. My advice? Slow down. Stop reacting to every headline like it's a divine revelation. Real insight requires patience, a healthy dose of skepticism, and the ability to sit still while everyone else is running around like headless chickens. It’s not glamorous, but it’s the only way to stay sane in this business. As mistyfox9 says:
Top tier, Chase?

I know my neighbor was trying to close out her account over at Miami, and honestly, it was five days of absolute, unadulterated chaos. 😵

Look, I have absolutely zero interest in playing salesman for anyone. Honestly, the less work I have to do, the better. My goal is simple: pay my mortgage on time, keep using my prepaid card, and stay out of their way. That’s it. Most of the time, I just stick to the ATM, though I did get sucked into one of those endless surveys once. The real headache starts when you actually walk into a branch. As soon as you step through the door, they hit you with that "relationship banking" nonsense—you know, that aggressive push to sell you something. "Do you need this?" "This would be the most cost-effective option for you..." It's exhausting. With an ATM, nobody asks you any questions. You just get your business done and leave. 😁

rowdypilot19 said:Haha, we’re basically the same person... except when I need to withdraw my cash, I actually have to drag myself down to the local Chase branch, which is such a pain. But I usually just give them a call a day or two ahead of time to set everything up, and then I just walk in, grab my money, and tell them I don't want to hear any excuses—it's my cash, period. 😁

That is precisely my approach—I handle most things via ATM and only bother with a physical branch a few times a year. And frankly, those visits are exhausting because they constantly push their various service packages, online banking upgrades, CDs, and all sorts of nonsense... 🙄 yet, somehow, they can't even manage to let me check my business account balance at the ATM—which is quite telling. 🙂

Just banking nonsense.

They split the questionnaire into two parts—the first one is what some
Department of Homeland Security
forces them to do. The second part is optional—basically just stuff the bankers are dying to know.
Fill out the first bit, cross out the second, and call it a day. It works—as long as clients actually know
what they’re being asked, why they’re being asked, and what the basis is for the whole thing.

No, that simply won't work 🙂—how exactly do you expect to gather the specific personal data that prompted you to create this survey in the first place?
By conflating everything like this without stating your actual purpose, you're essentially banking on people being too intimidated to question the request... then, once they actually show up at the local Chase branch, you'll just try to slip the paperwork in as an afterthought...

Wait, isn't it actually a federal crime to misrepresent what's "mandatory" for national security? Like, if they're blurring the lines between stuff you legally have to hand over and stuff they just plain want for themselves, isn't that fraud?

No, because they’ve actually passed these anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing laws—which banks then use as a convenient excuse to demand your private data under the guise of legal obligation.
though 🤔 ideally, this oversight should fall to the IRS, the SEC, and FINRA (for money laundering)—or perhaps the FBI when it comes to terrorism—and even then, it should only happen if there is actual, reasonable suspicion. It shouldn't involve labeling someone a terrorist or a money launderer simply because they hold a bank account... and frankly, I find it hard to believe that merely filling out a ten-page form will somehow instantly clear me of any suspicion ☕

Laura Chavez93 said:That is precisely my approach—I handle most things via ATM and only bother with a physical branch a few times a year. And frankly, those visits are exhausting because they constantly push their various service packages, online banking upgrades, CDs, and all sorts of nonsense... 🙄 yet, somehow, they can't even manage to let me check my business account balance at the ATM—which is quite telling. 🙂

...it's always just about whatever suits their bottom line... 🙂 everything else is just white noise to them...

rowdypilot19 said:Haha, we’re basically the same person... except when I need to withdraw my cash, I actually have to drag myself down to the local Chase branch, which is such a pain. But I usually just give them a call a day or two ahead of time to set everything up, and then I just walk in, grab my money, and tell them I don't want to hear any excuses—it's my cash, period. 😁

Heh... you're coming at it like you just walked face-first into a hornet's nest. 😛

How exactly are they digging for this info? Do they hand you a form to fill out for your next visit, fire off an email, or just grill you right at the teller window while the whole branch listens in with nosey curiosity?

I can't dodge it; I have to swing by the branch next week because one of my cards expires at the end of the month, so I want to know what I'm walking into.

If they insist on forcing you to fill everything out right then and there, how much longer does that drag out the line for everyone else?

(And what the hell is wrong with this forum today? Every single page takes over five minutes to load 🙂)

says:
How exactly are they digging for this info? Are they handing you a form to fill out for your next visit to the branch, emailing it over, or just grilling you right at the teller window while the whole damn lobby listens in?

I can't dodge it—gotta hit the branch next week because one of my cards expires at the end of the month, so I'm curious what kind of headache I'm in for.

If they're insisting on doing this face-to-face right then and there, how much longer does that actually drag out the line for everyone else?

(And what the hell is wrong with this forum today? Every single page takes over five minutes to load 🙂)

Not sure, man. I've been with JPMorgan Chase for 7 or 8 years now and they’ve never made me fill out any weird forms or surveys. Besides, I don't think anyone on here has actually shared specific details yet.