Nosy banks

Laura Chavez93 said:It makes me wonder who is truly losing their mind here 😵whether it is the architect of this policy, the branch managers pushing it, or the tellers who call my house demanding I visit in person just to answer these absurdities—refusing to handle it over the phone, and being too vague to even explain why I need to show up at all
when they could find everything they need with two simple clicks of a mouse 🙂

There is something else on my mind... is it standard practice for JPMorgan Chase to push service packages, CDs, mutual funds, and online banking tools
without me ever having requested them or expressed any interest whatsoever?

Oh, you can bet your life they do.

Thomas Fowler84 said:I haven't read the entire anti-money laundering statute, but does the law actually provide a basis for these specific questions:
- Average monthly income, regular:
- Other sources of income ($):

It is a tragedy when a bank feels compelled to ask me these things, even though they possess more data than I do:
- Monthly volume of cash transactions ($):
- Average annual account turnover ($):
- Country where most business is conducted:
- Do you engage in international transactions?:

I am referring to an account that sees perhaps $0.67 deposits and withdrawals annually, mostly just for gas and groceries. There is no overdraft. Despite all their software, hardware, and data sets... they remain incapable of distinguishing which users need scrutiny and which do not. It is mere intimidation and evasion of logic.

In my experience, other countries in the USA don't flag every single client as a suspect; instead, they target only those who meet specific criteria.

Nope.

Tomorrow I’m heading into a JPMorgan Chase branch—my first visit in over a year... there’s an issue regarding a specific transfer from my business account; some tax funds seem to have vanished into thin air, so I need to figure out where they went.
wish me luck 😈
edit: I actually hold the upper hand this time since I’m visiting regarding my business account rather than my personal one—and if they decide to start acting condescending by implying this is a money laundering issue, I’ll simply inform them that is precisely why I am here: to ensure there are no complications for either myself or the bank.
The statements clearly show the funds were diverted somewhere, and I want to prevent any future investigations into missing tax revenue... I am doing this for their sake, so they don't end up facing any regulatory headaches. 🙂
And if they continue to be difficult, I might just suggest moving the account over to, say, Wells Fargo—they likely don't assume every single client is a terrorist.😉
I am quite eager to see how tomorrow unfolds.

Laura Chavez93 said:Tomorrow I’m heading into a JPMorgan Chase branch—my first visit in over a year... there’s an issue regarding a specific transfer from my business account; some tax funds seem to have vanished into thin air, so I need to figure out where they went.
wish me luck 😈
edit: I actually hold the upper hand this time since I’m visiting regarding my business account rather than my personal one—and if they decide to start acting condescending by implying this is a money laundering issue, I’ll simply inform them that is precisely why I am here: to ensure there are no complications for either myself or the bank.
The statements clearly show the funds were diverted somewhere, and I want to prevent any future investigations into missing tax revenue... I am doing this for their sake, so they don't end up facing any regulatory headaches. 🙂
And if they continue to be difficult, I might just suggest moving the account over to, say, Wells Fargo—they likely don't assume every single client is a terrorist.😉
I am quite eager to see how tomorrow unfolds.

I support using Zabiti for business accounts; I dealt with an even more extensive set of paperwork there once.

I'm not sure why you assume Bank of America is better. When I closed my account there, they grilled me with all sorts of ridiculous questions.

Look, I’ve been banking with JPMorgan Chase for years now and I’ve never dealt with any of these ridiculous surveys or mindless questioning. I don't know, maybe I just look civilized enough that they don't flag me as a threat.

Here’s my experience with JPMorgan Chase—they didn't ask me a single thing 🤷 yet they were busy sending questionnaires via certified mail and calling my phone incessantly... I suppose it turns out the whole process isn't quite as vital as they make it seem ☕

Laura Chavez93 said:Here’s my experience with JPMorgan Chase—they didn't ask me a single thing 🤷 yet they were busy sending questionnaires via certified mail and calling my phone incessantly... I suppose it turns out the whole process isn't quite as vital as they make it seem ☕

Maybe someone just gave them a heads-up that they were overdoing it. Word travels fast when things go wrong, right? 😳

Either they completely blanked on it, or maybe someone was just overly generous with their kindness earlier today, leaving them with absolutely nothing left to offer anyone else... 😉

So you think JPMorgan Chase doesn't pull this nonsense? Just take a look at the statement they hand you 🙂
Quincy:

We would like to inform you that at JPMorgan Chase branches, we collect and process our clients' data to comply with legal requirements and other relevant regulations. If you haven't completed the "Know Your Customer" questionnaire yet, a bank employee will ask you to fill it out and sign it. We thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

I asked over on the Law forum, so I figured I'd just copy my post here too:

Hi everyone!
For a while now, the folks at Bank of America have been really pestering me for all sorts of private info (asking who lives in my apartment, telling me I'm required to report every single change in tenants, etc.). I have my paycheck deposited there and an active mortgage with them.
Honestly, I feel like they already have everything they need (since they approved my loan and I've been paying it off on time for 10 years), and I'm really hesitant to hand over any more personal details unless the law actually forces my hand.

Then yesterday, this email lands in my inbox:

"In accordance with the legal regulations of the United States, all banks in the US, including Bank of America, are required to update the mandatory information for all existing clients.

We would like to remind you that the Bank collects mandatory data based on the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act and its associated regulations, international standards, and in compliance with obligations arising from the international agreement the United States has entered into with the US to implement the US law known as FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act). This data is kept confidential, and the Bank uses it solely for managing your business relationship and fulfilling obligations according to the aforementioned legal regulations."

Am I REALLY obligated to give them this stuff? If not, is there anything specific I can point to so they'll finally just leave me alone?

Thanks so much!

What do you guys think? 😠

It’s not even big deal information, like whether you were born in the US or anything. I run into this all the time—not at a bank, obviously—but it’s just standard procedure. I keep a template saved on my computer, so I just sign it and move on.

I honestly think your best bet is to just hit them with a reply and ask them to actually cite the specific sections of the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act. You know, ask for the exact articles and references that prove they actually have the legal authority to demand that specific info.
Make them do a little digging, I guess! It should really only be one or two specific paragraphs, right? This isn't some vague stuff buried deep inside forty-three different articles and subsections; it’s information that's explicitly mentioned within the law itself, probably sitting right there in just one or two spots.

And, well, based on what I've seen from everyone talking about this topic, it seems like you're totally right—they really don't have any legal standing or even a decent reason to be asking for half the things you mentioned.

-Steve

I was looking through the legislation earlier and stumbled upon this:
Quincy:

CUSTOMER DUE DILIGENCE ANALYSIS Customer due diligence measures Section 8. (1) Unless otherwise provided by this Act, customer due diligence shall include the following measures: 1. identifying the customer and verifying their identity based on documents, data, or information obtained from a reliable, dependable, and independent source, 2. identifying and verifying the identity of the customer's beneficial owner, 3. gathering data regarding the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship or transaction, along with other data in accordance with this Act, 4. ongoing monitoring of the business relationship, including close scrutiny of transactions conducted during that relationship, to ensure such transactions align with the obligor's knowledge of the customer, the type of business, and the associated risks—which may include, where necessary, data regarding the source of funds—provided that the documents and data held by the obligor remain current.

So, looking at the statute, there isn't a single clause mandating that they ask for—nor am I obligated to provide, let alone sign off on—personal details like my mobile number, office phone, marital status, or household size...
It isn't the bank's role to investigate whether I happen to be a terrorist laundering money; a bank simply lacks the capacity to make such a determination, nor is it within its scope of work...
And since the only supposed justification for this intrusion is the mere fact that someone holds an account at a bank, it implies the starting assumption is that every client is a potential terrorist... 🙂 which leads me to wonder if there is any legal ground for a harassment lawsuit...

So, I was looking over my monthly statement from JPMorgan Chase and this popped up:
We would like to inform you that at JPMorgan Chase branches, we collect and process our clients' data
to ensure compliance with legal requirements and other relevant regulations. If you haven't already completed the "Know
Your Customer" questionnaire, a bank representative will ask you to fill it out and sign it. We thank you in advance for your
understanding and cooperation.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

Damn, I'm losing my window to transfer funds over to JPMorgan Chase 😠
...

Laura Chavez93 said:Damn, I'm losing my window to transfer funds over to JPMorgan Chase 😠
...

they didn't ask me a single thing for my tax filings. i've got both my business and personal accounts set up.

By what authority does the law permit such intrusive inquiries into one's private affairs?

When they asked me about filling out those surveys, I just countered with a few questions of my own... specifically regarding the frequency of workplace hookups at that particular bank, and how much extracurricular activity happens among colleagues during corporate parties—with a very particular focus on how often people are performing JOE BIDENs for the management team. After that, nobody ever brought up the surveys again.

Charles Ramos7 said:It’s not even big deal information, like whether you were born in the US or anything. I run into this all the time—not at a bank, obviously—but it’s just standard procedure. I keep a template saved on my computer, so I just sign it and move on.

Most banks include questions in their forms that they aren't legally required to ask, yet they act as if they must because they want to hoard as much data as possible.

http://www.govinfo.gov/content/example-link

Article 16 outlines what they actually have an obligation to request.
For instance:
The law might explicitly state they can ask about a client's line of work, which is what banks do. However, while the law requires them to collect "data regarding the source of funds that are or will be the subject of a transaction or business relationship," banks go much further. They gather details on sources of wealth that have absolutely nothing to do with current or future transactions.

Banks are essentially stretching the law to extract a mountain of information they have no legal right to collect. Unfortunately, the FTC has been far too passive; their reprimands toward these banks have been lukewarm at best. Most citizens feel intimidated because banks threaten to freeze accounts or report them to federal authorities, so people hand over every bit of data just to avoid trouble. It is a sad state of affairs.

Dana Morris6 said:When they asked me about filling out those surveys, I just countered with a few questions of my own... specifically regarding the frequency of workplace hookups at that particular bank, and how much extracurricular activity happens among colleagues during corporate parties—with a very particular focus on how often people are performing JOE BIDENs for the management team. After that, nobody ever brought up the surveys again.

😁

Thomas Fowler84 said:Most banks include questions in their forms that they aren't legally required to ask, yet they act as if they must because they want to hoard as much data as possible.

http://www.govinfo.gov/content/example-link

Article 16 outlines what they actually have an obligation to request.
For instance:
The law might explicitly state they can ask about a client's line of work, which is what banks do. However, while the law requires them to collect "data regarding the source of funds that are or will be the subject of a transaction or business relationship," banks go much further. They gather details on sources of wealth that have absolutely nothing to do with current or future transactions.

Banks are essentially stretching the law to extract a mountain of information they have no legal right to collect. Unfortunately, the FTC has been far too passive; their reprimands toward these banks have been lukewarm at best. Most citizens feel intimidated because banks threaten to freeze accounts or report them to federal authorities, so people hand over every bit of data just to avoid trouble. It is a sad state of affairs.

What's your point there?

-Steve