Nosy banks

wiredlynx28 said:@ Spinster

You know that feeling when a client switches from another bank? Usually, they aren't leaving because things were going great there—they're fleeing a bad experience. I think that tells you everything you need to know about why people move.

Regarding your Google search: if you're looking into how other banks are performing, try searching in English or asking around. Reach out to anyone you know working in the industry. JPMorgan Chase has been struggling for years, and it looks like Société Générale is basically trying to absorb them by injecting capital—plus, the leadership is already being taken over by Société Générale folks. Citigroup already snapped up that local branch and will likely rebrand soon, while RBS is pulling out of Eastern markets entirely; they even shut down in places like Canada due to poor performance. It's worth noting that RBS operating in the US isn't the same beast as RBS in Austria. On the flip side, Bank of America passed all its stress tests perfectly. Their capital position is solid enough that even if a crisis hits, business would stay steady, according to the European Commission's findings.

@Nathan Morris3

Take a closer look at which questions actually require an answer and which ones don't. If you feel like certain questions shouldn't be answered for the reasons you're aware of, just email the bank directly. They’ll forward it to their legal department, where actual professionals will get back to you within the timeframe required by law. Besides, you always have the option to file a lawsuit if you believe your rights were violated or if someone is trying to pull a fast one on you.

Well, I've been trying to explain that I've sort of become an expert in this stuff by accident, so I pretty much know what a bank is allowed to ask and what they aren't. I don't really need to "look closer," I guess. We have a specific form that claims they're required to ask these things, but then we have the law saying otherwise. And then there's you, arguing that the bank is allowed to ask them, basically acting like the law is irrelevant. You aren't really making a point, you're just repeating that the bank is right and that I should check my facts. I was hoping for a more constructive conversation here, honestly.

I've gone through every legal channel, from the legal teams to Zaba and even the FTC. Wells Fargo even asked me those exact same things when I was opening my account. The staff were totally rude, too—they just hand you paperwork without knowing anything. When I asked, "Where does it say you have to ask this?" employees at both banks just shrugged and said they're just doing their jobs.
The legal department keeps citing articles 8 and 26, which also only apply to funds involved in banking transactions.

I'm not sure why you're refusing to admit that banks are breaking the law, especially since the arguments are right there.

What kind of dispute are you talking about? For emotional distress? You kidding? 😉

wiredlynx28 said:The Know Your Customer Questionnaire is mandatory.
I don't see them asking for anything they aren't legally entitled to. If people are complaining about privacy being invaded, they should specify exactly what they mean.
For any non-mandatory fields, there's an option to select "prefer not to say"—for instance, regarding dual citizenship.

Data collection and updates are conducted strictly under the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act and its implementing regulations. This is done to facilitate deep client due diligence and meet all regulatory obligations. Furthermore, the Questionnaire details the specific purpose for collecting and processing this Data, including whether it is processed based on legal authority or via the consent provided by you or your representative upon signing this Questionnaire.

You can review your data or update and correct any inaccuracies in the Questionnaire at any time through online banking, in writing, or by visiting a branch in person.

The information in this Questionnaire is essential for the bank, or any third party for whom the bank is collecting data, to fulfill their legal and regulatory duties and to establish a business relationship with you. If you refuse to provide information required by this Questionnaire, or if you provide inaccurate mandatory information, the bank—or the entity for whom the bank is collecting data—may decline to establish a business relationship with you.

@wiredlynx28
Based on what you've been saying in other posts, I think you mentioned you don't actually work at Zaba. So, are you just a customer using their online banking then? I'm asking because I'm a bit confused how you know there's a "do not wish to answer" option for things like dual citizenship, since nobody mentioned that before your post and it isn't visible in any of the screenshots...

wiredlynx28 said:@ Spinster

You know that feeling when a client switches from another bank? Usually, they aren't leaving because things were going great there—they're fleeing a bad experience. I think that tells you everything you need to know about why people move.

Regarding your Google search: if you're looking into how other banks are performing, try searching in English or asking around. Reach out to anyone you know working in the industry. JPMorgan Chase has been struggling for years, and it looks like Société Générale is basically trying to absorb them by injecting capital—plus, the leadership is already being taken over by Société Générale folks. Citigroup already snapped up that local branch and will likely rebrand soon, while RBS is pulling out of Eastern markets entirely; they even shut down in places like Canada due to poor performance. It's worth noting that RBS operating in the US isn't the same beast as RBS in Austria. On the flip side, Bank of America passed all its stress tests perfectly. Their capital position is solid enough that even if a crisis hits, business would stay steady, according to the European Commission's findings.

@Nathan Morris3

Take a closer look at which questions actually require an answer and which ones don't. If you feel like certain questions shouldn't be answered for the reasons you're aware of, just email the bank directly. They’ll forward it to their legal department, where actual professionals will get back to you within the timeframe required by law. Besides, you always have the option to file a lawsuit if you believe your rights were violated or if someone is trying to pull a fast one on you.

@wiredlynx28
If you take a slightly more careful look at the form itself, there's hardly any question that isn't essentially mandatory. Only three specific items include a "more information" link that pops up a window explaining the legal basis for the request—you know, citing stuff like federal law or the FTC—but for everything else, there's nothing. In your expert opinion, does that imply Zaba doesn't actually have a legal leg to stand on when asking those other questions? Because if they do, why wouldn't they list the authority right there next to the others like they did for those three? I realize you can't give me a definitive answer since you don't work at Zaba (right?), but I'd love to hear your take since you seem to know your stuff...

slypanther333 said:@wiredlynx28
Based on what you've been saying in other posts, I think you mentioned you don't actually work at Zaba. So, are you just a customer using their online banking then? I'm asking because I'm a bit confused how you know there's a "do not wish to answer" option for things like dual citizenship, since nobody mentioned that before your post and it isn't visible in any of the screenshots...

@wiredlynx28
If you take a slightly more careful look at the form itself, there's hardly any question that isn't essentially mandatory. Only three specific items include a "more information" link that pops up a window explaining the legal basis for the request—you know, citing stuff like federal law or the FTC—but for everything else, there's nothing. In your expert opinion, does that imply Zaba doesn't actually have a legal leg to stand on when asking those other questions? Because if they do, why wouldn't they list the authority right there next to the others like they did for those three? I realize you can't give me a definitive answer since you don't work at Zaba (right?), but I'd love to hear your take since you seem to know your stuff...

I guess she might be at JPMorgan Chase.

I guess @Voditeljica1 might have something to say about this. Maybe.
If you take a closer look at the form, it feels like there isn't a single question you can skip. But then, only three of them have that "more info" link that pops up a window explaining the specific legal basis—you know, citing things like federal law or FactSet. In your expert opinion, does that mean Wells Fargo doesn't actually have a legal reason to ask the rest? If they do, why wouldn't they just list the authority for those too, like they did for the first three? I know you can't give me a definitive answer since you don't work at Wells Fargo (right?), but I’d love to hear what you think, given how much you know.

I guess FATCA only really matters if you've got over $50K sitting in your account. If you don't, there probably isn't even a reason for them to be asking all those other questions, maybe.

I think I posted the link earlier:
I guess this Treasury report might be worth looking at. Maybe there's something useful in here if you have the time.

Maybe some accounts just don't need to be identified or reported? I guess there are certain ones that aren't required to be reviewed at all.
Subject to subparagraph E(2) of this section, an unknown...
Maybe an account where the total balance stays under $50,000 as of... I guess.
June 30, 2014

So, it says explicitly that you don't need to, but banks act like it's written right there in the contract... maybe they just assumed it was a typo or something? I guess.
I've got accounts in a few different countries, and honestly, what banks are doing here in the US—and people aren't even complaining—is just totally surreal. It's like something out of Monty Python, I guess. 😉

Has anyone else dealt with JPMorgan Chase closing their accounts lately? It seems to happen after you refuse to answer questions that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual banking relationship—specifically, if you decline to sign off on blanket authorizations allowing them total autonomy over your personal data...

Laura Chavez93 said:Has anyone else dealt with JPMorgan Chase closing their accounts lately? It seems to happen after you refuse to answer questions that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual banking relationship—specifically, if you decline to sign off on blanket authorizations allowing them total autonomy over your personal data...

That didn't happen to me in the last few days; it happened this past summer. I went in to provide my info for a business account right at the deadline.

A few days later, I get a letter saying they're deactivating the account. I lost it. Sent an email, gave them an earful, the whole nine yards.

They actually called me back to apologize and ended up keeping the account active.

Luckily, it was just a specialized account tied to a prepaid card I got from a government program; otherwise, I would have closed it ages ago. I wouldn't even deal with this bank.

From iPhone 13

Like I said.
To those of you arguing otherwise: just wait until they freeze your accounts and cut off access to every single service you use at JPMorgan Chase. Once they terminate your entire relationship with the bank, then feel free to come back and talk. 👍

wiredlynx28 said:Like I said.
To those of you arguing otherwise: just wait until they freeze your accounts and cut off access to every single service you use at JPMorgan Chase. Once they terminate your entire relationship with the bank, then feel free to come back and talk. 👍

You keep dodging the actual issue with the forms. You won't give any real reason why JPMorgan Chase claims they need this data when the write differently law clearly says otherwise. You're just defending the bank without any logic, so... what's even the point?

I mean, we all know a bank has the discretion to close an account—that's not really the debate here. It doesn't make lying okay, I guess.

Let’s be more precise here. This isn't a case of discretionary account closure by the bank, because in this instance, the client was actually notified of the reason. True discretionary closure happens when a bank shuts down an account based on their own internal criteria—perhaps they simply decide they no longer wish to do business with a specific individual—and they aren't legally obligated to provide an explanation.

As for the Zelle form, you should check with someone at Zelle directly. From what I can gather, everything seems pretty straightforward, but if you run into trouble, you can always ask a bank representative for assistance. 👍

I guess she might be the host? Maybe just a presenter. Nathan Morris3 says:
I guess we should be a bit more precise here. This isn't really about a bank closing an account at their own discretion, since the client was actually told why it happened this time. Discretionary closure is more when a bank just shuts you down for their own reasons—maybe they just don't want to do business with someone anymore—and they aren't even required to explain themselves.

I think you might be wrong. Maybe.

"
Maybe it’s just discretion? I guess that’s how it works.
I guess managers have the right to decide on their subordinates' key issues whenever they feel like it, maybe.
I guess there’s some kind of legal leeway when it comes to how the law and formula are applied, maybe? Like, if the law doesn't explicitly limit it, there might be some extra freedom there, I suppose.
"

So, I guess it doesn't really matter if the bank gave a fake answer or just nothing at all. Discretionary rights are defined by the actual process, not just some excuse or reason they come up with.

If you need help with the Zabi formula, maybe just ask someone over at Zabi? I guess it all seems pretty straightforward to me, but if not, you can always grab some help from one of the staff members. 👍

So, I told you I actually asked, and I got an official response that cites articles saying something completely different from what the bank claims. When you try to confront them with the law and formula they’re using, you just get a reply like, "it's bank policy, sorry we can't meet your expectations," which basically means "take your business elsewhere if you don't like it." I guess it's just the same story with all the banks.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "seeing clearly." I guess you mean looking at the law and formula and realizing there’s just no basis to ask for income data that isn't part of the actual business deal with the bank? It's good that you finally admitted it, I suppose, but the way banks treat people worries me a bit. Inventing ways to twist the law just to push clients toward something feels... well, maybe a little manipulative.

wiredlynx28 said:Like I said.
To those of you arguing otherwise: just wait until they freeze your accounts and cut off access to every single service you use at JPMorgan Chase. Once they terminate your entire relationship with the bank, then feel free to come back and talk. 👍

How much longer do you plan on lying?
A corporate business account is one thing, but personal consumer accounts are an entirely different matter altogether
and you are well aware of that distinction.

Laura Chavez93 said:Has anyone else dealt with JPMorgan Chase closing their accounts lately? It seems to happen after you refuse to answer questions that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual banking relationship—specifically, if you decline to sign off on blanket authorizations allowing them total autonomy over your personal data...

Man, I refused to fill out one of those forms all the way back in November. My lady told me she’d just make a note that I wasn't signing anything and then they'd close my foreign currency account—which is the only thing I even keep at Bank of America, and honestly, it's the only account that actually works for me. Then a few days later, I get one of those circular letters in the mail just like everyone else on here. Still haven't closed the account, though. Weird, right?

wiredlynx28 said:Like I said.
To those of you arguing otherwise: just wait until they freeze your accounts and cut off access to every single service you use at JPMorgan Chase. Once they terminate your entire relationship with the bank, then feel free to come back and talk. 👍

What kind of "products" does a bank sell? What, screws? Potatoes? Something like that?
I can't wait for them to "close my product."😂

Is there actually a moderator monitoring this thread who might take some action regarding this host? 🙂

And why would that be an issue?
The woman is just giving you the lowdown on what the bank’s official policy is without making you wait in some endless line at Chase.

Michael Morgan5 said:And why would that be an issue?
The woman is just giving you the lowdown on what the bank’s official policy is without making you wait in some endless line at Chase.

I couldn't agree more! 👏

Laura Chavez93 said:Is there actually a moderator monitoring this thread who might take some action regarding this host? 🙂

You mean the only person on this entire platform actually making sense and using logic?

Michael Morgan5 said:And why would that be an issue?
The woman is just giving you the lowdown on what the bank’s official policy is without making you wait in some endless line at Chase.

So what, we shouldn't even discuss banks anymore? Should we just report them immediately?

Nobody is answering my question: has anyone actually received a response from the bank regarding their complaint? I was planning on waiting for their reply before filing further reports. Does that make any sense?

Sent from my iPhone using Reddit

Steven Rivera76 said:So what, we shouldn't even discuss banks anymore? Should we just report them immediately?

Nobody is answering my question: has anyone actually received a response from the bank regarding their complaint? I was planning on waiting for their reply before filing further reports. Does that make any sense?

Sent from my iPhone using Reddit

What are you complaining about exactly? I got an "answer" to a complaint once about them asking for info outside of a Legal Obligation, but I think I already posted about that.
What would you specifically complain or report about?

Nathan Morris3 said:What are you complaining about exactly? I got an "answer" to a complaint once about them asking for info outside of a Legal Obligation, but I think I already posted about that.
What would you specifically complain or report about?

I suppose my writing is incredibly unclear. ☕

I want to file a report against JP Morgan Chase because of a circular letter stating the following:

If you do not update your legally required information shortly, we will be forced to limit your business relationship, which means you will be unable to conduct transactions through your accounts. The suspension of transaction execution includes, for example, cash withdrawals at ATMs and branches, transferring funds from accounts, and using the Bank's debit and credit cards.

Naturally, I sent a formal complaint to JP Morgan Chase as well, but they haven't responded.

Steven Rivera76 said:I suppose my writing is incredibly unclear. ☕

I want to file a report against JP Morgan Chase because of a circular letter stating the following:

If you do not update your legally required information shortly, we will be forced to limit your business relationship, which means you will be unable to conduct transactions through your accounts. The suspension of transaction execution includes, for example, cash withdrawals at ATMs and branches, transferring funds from accounts, and using the Bank's debit and credit cards.

Naturally, I sent a formal complaint to JP Morgan Chase as well, but they haven't responded.

I guess they might get back to you soon, but maybe don't get your hopes up too high. You'll probably just get an answer like the one I got, where they just parrot "due to legal obligations..." and don't actually address your specific question.
I don't know how strong your finances are, but if they are, I'd suggest maybe checking with a lawyer who could tell you if the bank really has the right to pull this kind of confiscation. I mean, you might have grounds for a lawsuit.

From what I've read, the Law the bank is citing doesn't even regulate the relationship between the entity (the bank) and the client (you). And while a bank does have the discretion to end a contract with you, this whole thing about confiscating money makes zero sense. Sure, a bank has to report suspicious activity—maybe even your refusal to provide info—but blocking you from your own money? No fucking way.

I ended up leaving both Chase and Wells Fargo, so we'll see if that causes issues with my other banks. If I end up in the same boat as you, I'm definitely going to a lawyer, especially since the interest on my money would be pretty decent to recover.

Anyway, I guess we need a legal precedent here, since it seems like the Federal Reserve, the FTC, and the Police Department aren't doing anything. Maybe consumer advocacy groups are working on something, I'm not sure (maybe try contacting them?).