Nosy banks

You go to an attorney, but they're bound by the exact same Law—if they're doing business with you, they have to collect all those same details a Bank of America would require 🤣

It might sound harsh, but let's be real: an individual standing up against a giant like Bank of America is an uphill battle.
Especially when dealing with matters like this.
Honestly, you're better off just paying for a vacation or something similar rather than sinking money into legal fees and wasting precious time on a fight where the person suing the bank usually ends up losing everything.

Look, here’s a bit of perspective from my time abroad: the data this bank is digging for—all those photo uploads—is basically identical to what I had to provide when I opened an account back in Sweden. Citizenship, residency status, dual citizenship questions, whether you're an American citizen, income levels, employer details, how often you wire money internationally and in what amounts, phone number, email—it’s all the exact same stuff. It makes me think the regulations are pretty much standardized across the entire European Union.

wiredlynx28 said:It might sound harsh, but let's be real: an individual standing up against a giant like Bank of America is an uphill battle.
Especially when dealing with matters like this.
Honestly, you're better off just paying for a vacation or something similar rather than sinking money into legal fees and wasting precious time on a fight where the person suing the bank usually ends up losing everything.

Steven Rivera76, don't let it get you down, I think it's really important for citizens to start standing up for their rights. Actually, I'll tell you what—I'd be happy to cover your initial consultation costs with a lawyer. I can send you the cash ahead of time via Western Union, which I assume would be around $50 (though maybe check first so you don't bankrupt me 🙂 ). At least that way you can get some basic info from a pro.

wiredlynx28 said:It might sound harsh, but let's be real: an individual standing up against a giant like Bank of America is an uphill battle.
Especially when dealing with matters like this.
Honestly, you're better off just paying for a vacation or something similar rather than sinking money into legal fees and wasting precious time on a fight where the person suing the bank usually ends up losing everything.

Actually, if you want some good news, the whole "individual versus the bank" dynamic has shifted drastically. 👍 I see things moving quite a bit in favor of that individual. 👍

I'm not even talking about a lawsuit yet—just starting with a report to the Federal Reserve.

Nathan Morris3 said:Steven Rivera76, don't let it get you down, I think it's really important for citizens to start standing up for their rights. Actually, I'll tell you what—I'd be happy to cover your initial consultation costs with a lawyer. I can send you the cash ahead of time via Western Union, which I assume would be around $50 (though maybe check first so you don't bankrupt me 🙂 ). At least that way you can get some basic info from a pro.

Look, if they freeze my accounts, any help would be welcome.😁

George Lewis9 said:Look, here’s a bit of perspective from my time abroad: the data this bank is digging for—all those photo uploads—is basically identical to what I had to provide when I opened an account back in Sweden. Citizenship, residency status, dual citizenship questions, whether you're an American citizen, income levels, employer details, how often you wire money internationally and in what amounts, phone number, email—it’s all the exact same stuff. It makes me think the regulations are pretty much standardized across the entire European Union.

Actually, they aren't. In Austria, they don't ask for nearly as much, though I guess banks might want more from non-citizens.
Sweden is just super transparent, you know? You can actually look up how much your neighbor makes online through the IRS website over there, so I guess privacy isn't quite the same thing in Sweden.

George Lewis9 said:Look, here’s a bit of perspective from my time abroad: the data this bank is digging for—all those photo uploads—is basically identical to what I had to provide when I opened an account back in Sweden. Citizenship, residency status, dual citizenship questions, whether you're an American citizen, income levels, employer details, how often you wire money internationally and in what amounts, phone number, email—it’s all the exact same stuff. It makes me think the regulations are pretty much standardized across the entire European Union.

Precisely.

@ Nathan Morris3

Bank of America (JPMorgan Chase) uses the exact same questionnaire as Chase.👍

wiredlynx28 said:Precisely.

@ Nathan Morris3

Bank of America (JPMorgan Chase) uses the exact same questionnaire as Chase.👍

I have an account at Bank of America too, and honestly, nobody has ever asked me anything, not even at the three other banks I used back in Austria.
I guess it isn't really about whether they ask or not, but more if the questionnaire follows the Law or doesn't.
We have anti-money laundering laws here in the US too:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/anti-money-laundering-compliance
https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-regulations

, and there's Article 6 which says something about "gathering data on the source of funds; this might include info regarding... income."
Maybe, combined with other sections and just common sense, if you only move $300 a year through your account, a bank probably won't bother you with stuff they aren't legally required to ask. But even if they did—I suppose that would be legal since the law allows it, so there's not much to complain about. Still, like I said, in my several decades living in America with all these accounts, no bank has ever requested that info from me because, even with relatively large amounts, I don't think there's any reason to suspect I'm doing anything shady (though they might tighten things up, since this new Law is only a few months old). Americans seem to monitor foreigners more, maybe mostly those from Middle Eastern countries (I know of a few cases).

Guys, you're truly terrifying. Just... wow.

I bet when there’s nobody else in the building, you call the elevator just so you can wipe it down, then toss a Mars, Inc. wrapper on the floor thinking nobody's watching. Real tough stuff right there.

Nathan Morris3 said:Actually, they aren't. In Austria, they don't ask for nearly as much, though I guess banks might want more from non-citizens.
Sweden is just super transparent, you know? You can actually look up how much your neighbor makes online through the IRS website over there, so I guess privacy isn't quite the same thing in Sweden.

You can dig up all sorts of stuff. Beyond just salaries, you can see if an individual or a company has outstanding debts—which is handy if you're renting out an apartment and want to check if they'll actually pay the rent.🙂

And honestly, nobody complains about it being a "privacy violation."

George Lewis9 said:You can dig up all sorts of stuff. Beyond just salaries, you can see if an individual or a company has outstanding debts—which is handy if you're renting out an apartment and want to check if they'll actually pay the rent.🙂

And honestly, nobody complains about it being a "privacy violation."

I guess it's about time to start leaving a trail, unless you're actually a journalist or something. Maybe then the person you're watching will actually realize they're being watched. 😁.

Swedes have such a different culture. They're moving toward a cashless society so fast that soon there won't be any physical money left at all. Every single transaction leaves a trail, and they seem totally fine with that level of transparency—everyone knowing everything about everyone else. It only really works if that openness is absolute and everyone is on the same page, even the neighbors. I guess they’re just wired differently, and I won't get into whether that should be the global standard or not (it probably fits their way of life, though). But the point is, over there, it's all perfectly legal. It's the same in Austria. Here in America, it isn't, and it's honestly kind of wild how much people here just sit back and accept things. Whether it's annoying paperwork from a bank or much bigger issues that everyone agrees are important, people just don't seem to want to push back.

Hypovereinsbank (which is basically JPMorgan Chase) is demanding that their clients fill out the exact same questionnaire as Zayo Bank does, and you don't hear anyone complaining about it over in Italy either.

@ rama6

I have no idea why American banks aren't trusted enough to hold large deposits, but generally speaking, there are tons of Americans who just keep their money in Swiss accounts—and the IRS absolutely loves that kind of thing.

@wiredlynx28

Could you please walk me through the logic behind these specific questions?
- Monthly cash transaction volume ($)
- Average annual account turnover ($)

I’m fairly certain the bank requesting this info has a much better grasp on my finances than I do—not to mention they could probably run a deep-dive analytics report covering the last two decades if they felt like it.
Personally, I don't have the slightest clue what my total transaction volume was three weeks ago, nor do I particularly care to find out.

unrecognized entity

I guess I'll just be here, hanging out. Maybe! Nathan Morris3 says: I guess Hypovereinsbank—which is basically JPMorgan Chase—is asking clients to fill out the exact same questionnaire that Zaba does, and nobody seems to be complaining about it over there. I think they're doing the same thing in Italy, too.

I don't really recall N26 asking me for my payroll info back in the day. I haven't exactly studied German law, so maybe they're required to ask, but I'd assume there's some kind of rule about being reasonable. It shouldn't be like what happens here at Bank of America—where you open an account with maybe $300 in annual turnover and they claim they legally have to demand your entire world income just to make sure you aren't laundering money or funding terrorism. I guess it's just weird.

The law says:

Maybe some kind of money laundering or terrorism financing risk assessment, I guess.
Article 7.
...
When it comes to analyzing and assessing risk—you know, that whole process for determining risk ratings mentioned in section 2—both the entity and the regulatory body from section 83 have to pay attention to what makes that specific business tick. I guess they really need to look at things like the size and makeup of the firm, the scope and type of operations, who their clients are, and the actual products they’re putting out there.

So, I asked my bank why they’re demanding my global income details for a business that barely pulls in a few thousand bucks a year. It feels like it has nothing to do with them. They basically told me they "can't" skip those questions because customizing the process would be too expensive or complicated, so they just send everyone the exact same form with the same mandatory fields. Honestly, that logic bugs me, even if it doesn't bother most people.

unrecognized entity:

I guess I don't really get why American banks aren't trusted enough with big deposits. It seems like so many Americans just move their money over to Austria instead, and I suppose the IRS absolutely loves when they do that.

I live in Austria. Everything has been coming to light since 2018 anyway, so they'll definitely be looking into anything that seems suspicious. A few years back, America had some pretty crazy laws that basically banned having accounts at foreign banks without permission from an unrecognized entity, but that isn't illegal anymore.
Bank of America used to be pretty interesting because they offered better rates on deposits, but I guess that’s not really the case anymore, so it feels less appealing. Plus, privacy seems a bit weaker now—they were even asking about "intimate" household details until recently, I think—and there's just more risk. Even with deposit insurance, you're still stuck dealing with currency risk, maybe.

nimblegull74 said:@wiredlynx28

Could you please walk me through the logic behind these specific questions?
- Monthly cash transaction volume ($)
- Average annual account turnover ($)

I’m fairly certain the bank requesting this info has a much better grasp on my finances than I do—not to mention they could probably run a deep-dive analytics report covering the last two decades if they felt like it.
Personally, I don't have the slightest clue what my total transaction volume was three weeks ago, nor do I particularly care to find out.

I will step in and answer on her behalf—since she likely won't get a straight answer anyway--☕
the truth is, any major bank can pull all that data with two simple clicks—and they certainly have much more accurate figures than I ever could... asking for this feels like nothing more than unnecessary harassment of their own clients
and don't expect a real explanation from them either; they will just keep repeating the same tired script about how they "have to ask" and how it is "your responsibility to provide it"...

A colleague of mine reached out—he’s already got some inquiries open with the Federal Reserve and Zabiti, so he’ll get back to me. He mentioned that the Federal Reserve is actually responsible for overseeing the implementation of the USA PATRIOT Act... and I think the IRS handles the FATCA stuff. He asked the Federal Reserve about potential account freezes if those questionnaires aren't filled out. I guess I'll let you know once I hear more.

JPMorgan Chase isn't asking for any of that at all, not from their long-time clients or anyone just starting out.

The Federal Reserve hasn't been asking either, or at least that's what my brother tells me, I guess.

rowdypilot19 said:JPMorgan Chase isn't asking for any of that at all, not from their long-time clients or anyone just starting out.

The Federal Reserve hasn't been asking either, or at least that's what my brother tells me, I guess.

The Federal Reserve? You mean Wells Fargo?

Yeah, exactly, Wells Fargo is one thing, but obviously, it’s not like the Federal Reserve is asking all the banks for the same stuff. 🙂