Started by wearyowl29 · · 👁 9 views · 75 replies
wearyowl29 said:http://pixelizam.com/bizarni-psiholo...-posli-po-zlu/
There’s also the Milgram experiment out there, but personally? I find "The Third Wave" way more fascinating—it's actually what the movie was based on!
As I sit here typing this, highly civilized human beings are currently flying overhead, attempting to kill me.
There is no personal animosity between us—not on my end, and certainly not on theirs. They aren’t acting out of hatred; they’re simply "doing their duty," as the old saying goes. Most of them would never dream of committing murder in private life. Yet, if one of them manages to blow me to pieces with a well-placed bomb, he won't lose a wink of sleep over it. In his mind, he's just serving his country, and that sense of national service provides all the absolution he needs to wash away the evil.
wearyowl29 said:http://pixelizam.com/bizarni-psiholo...-posli-po-zlu/
There’s also the Milgram experiment out there, but personally? I find "The Third Wave" way more fascinating—it's actually what the movie was based on!
wearyowl29 said:http://pixelizam.com/bizarni-psiholo...-posli-po-zlu/
There’s also the Milgram experiment out there, but personally? I find "The Third Wave" way more fascinating—it's actually what the movie was based on!
Tyler Baker6 said:Everyone seems pretty obsessed with this whole idea of how people are so easily swayed
and how easy it is to manipulate them—but let’s be real, everyone usually only sees it happening to someone else. It’s totally possible we all have that streak in us; it just hits some people harder than others.
Personally, I get way too hyped up about some authority figure and their "expertise" until I catch them slipping on some stupid mistake... and then I end up feeling totally let down by them AND my own flawed judgment.
Andrew Hayes8 said:I've watched both the movie and the documentary
it really is striking how easily people can be swayed in any direction whatsoever.
Tyler Baker6 said:Everyone seems pretty obsessed with this whole idea of how people are so easily swayed
and how easy it is to manipulate them—but let’s be real, everyone usually only sees it happening to someone else. It’s totally possible we all have that streak in us; it just hits some people harder than others.
Personally, I get way too hyped up about some authority figure and their "expertise" until I catch them slipping on some stupid mistake... and then I end up feeling totally let down by them AND my own flawed judgment.
wearyowl29 said:http://pixelizam.com/bizarni-psiholo...-posli-po-zlu/
There’s also the Milgram experiment out there, but personally? I find "The Third Wave" way more fascinating—it's actually what the movie was based on!
swiftsurfer27 said:Obedience is perhaps the most devastating thing that can happen to any individual in their lifetime... R. A. Wilson articulated this truth quite eloquently a long time ago, and his wisdom is reflected in my signature.
Indeed.
The film covering that specific movement is titled The Wave. It is a German production and truly phenomenal; I believe it is something everyone should experience.
Furthermore, The Experiment (also German, though there is a Hollywood version starring Adrien Brody) explores the Stanford prison experiment. If you have an interest in the literature behind the mastermind of the Stanford prison experiment... well, look toward Professor Zimbardo and his work, "Lucifer's Effect." You will likely feel a sense of nausea after just a few pages once you witness the practical examples of what obedience can do to a person. It is an incredibly instructive book, yet a difficult one to read.
hollowpuma762 said:Honestly? These principles were baked into American TV, radio, newspapers, and the web ages ago.
Welcome to the 21st century.
You really have to be careful when interpreting anything out of context, especially statements coming from people under the constant influence of substances. R. A. Wilson has this habit of drifting from actual wisdom straight into sweeping generalizations and mere guesswork.
To put it mildly.
When we're talking about "obedience," it's smart to avoid those broad generalizations (as usual) and actually make a distinction regarding "authority." Authority itself is just a natural occurrence; whether it's a good or bad thing depends entirely on how it's being used.
The average person doesn't exactly possess the knowledge, the interest, or even the mental bandwidth to gather and apply deep insights into the principles affecting their own lives. So, they end up making moves that screw over both themselves and everyone around them.
In those cases, it's actually wiser to defer to people who actually have the qualifications.
Disobeying a doctor who's trying to set healthy habits for a patient who's already trashed their own health... well, that's not exactly a genius move.
Society functions because of hierarchy. And while those anarchist tendencies might seem understandable given the state of the world today, they're really just the byproduct of a shallow, immature worldview.
Generalizing "obedience" based on the widespread perception of incompetent and corrupt leadership... it's just not a good call.
Besides, "disobeying" the laws of nature and the forces that are much stronger than any individual leads to chaos, illness, and eventually, death.
hollowpuma762 said:Honestly? These principles were baked into American TV, radio, newspapers, and the web ages ago.
Welcome to the 21st century.
You really have to be careful when interpreting anything out of context, especially statements coming from people under the constant influence of substances. R. A. Wilson has this habit of drifting from actual wisdom straight into sweeping generalizations and mere guesswork.
To put it mildly.
When we're talking about "obedience," it's smart to avoid those broad generalizations (as usual) and actually make a distinction regarding "authority." Authority itself is just a natural occurrence; whether it's a good or bad thing depends entirely on how it's being used.
The average person doesn't exactly possess the knowledge, the interest, or even the mental bandwidth to gather and apply deep insights into the principles affecting their own lives. So, they end up making moves that screw over both themselves and everyone around them.
In those cases, it's actually wiser to defer to people who actually have the qualifications.
Disobeying a doctor who's trying to set healthy habits for a patient who's already trashed their own health... well, that's not exactly a genius move.
Society functions because of hierarchy. And while those anarchist tendencies might seem understandable given the state of the world today, they're really just the byproduct of a shallow, immature worldview.
Generalizing "obedience" based on the widespread perception of incompetent and corrupt leadership... it's just not a good call.
Besides, "disobeying" the laws of nature and the forces that are much stronger than any individual leads to chaos, illness, and eventually, death.
hollowpuma762 said:Honestly? These principles were baked into American TV, radio, newspapers, and the web ages ago.
Welcome to the 21st century.
You really have to be careful when interpreting anything out of context, especially statements coming from people under the constant influence of substances. R. A. Wilson has this habit of drifting from actual wisdom straight into sweeping generalizations and mere guesswork.
To put it mildly.
When we're talking about "obedience," it's smart to avoid those broad generalizations (as usual) and actually make a distinction regarding "authority." Authority itself is just a natural occurrence; whether it's a good or bad thing depends entirely on how it's being used.
The average person doesn't exactly possess the knowledge, the interest, or even the mental bandwidth to gather and apply deep insights into the principles affecting their own lives. So, they end up making moves that screw over both themselves and everyone around them.
In those cases, it's actually wiser to defer to people who actually have the qualifications.
Disobeying a doctor who's trying to set healthy habits for a patient who's already trashed their own health... well, that's not exactly a genius move.
Society functions because of hierarchy. And while those anarchist tendencies might seem understandable given the state of the world today, they're really just the byproduct of a shallow, immature worldview.
Generalizing "obedience" based on the widespread perception of incompetent and corrupt leadership... it's just not a good call.
Besides, "disobeying" the laws of nature and the forces that are much stronger than any individual leads to chaos, illness, and eventually, death.
swiftsurfer27 said:Since you’ve taken my comment quite literally and are fixated on that generalization... I could offer you an equally "wise" observation in return:
The moment you use a phrase like "the average person," you are engaging in a generalization.
That is a generalization. To illustrate, consider this perfect example of someone who appeared highly qualified and was systematically educated within a hierarchy, even going so far as to assist the authorities (an authority under an authority, if you will): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy 😁
And so on...
and so on...
But then again, that isn't really addressing your point; it’s just playing mental gymnastics, isn't it?😉
swiftsurfer27 said:Since you’ve taken my comment quite literally and are fixated on that generalization... I could offer you an equally "wise" observation in return:
The moment you use a phrase like "the average person," you are engaging in a generalization.
That is a generalization. To illustrate, consider this perfect example of someone who appeared highly qualified and was systematically educated within a hierarchy, even going so far as to assist the authorities (an authority under an authority, if you will): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy 😁
And so on...
and so on...
But then again, that isn't really addressing your point; it’s just playing mental gymnastics, isn't it?😉
wearyowl29 said:I always try to give people a fair shake first! But more often than not, those authority figures start veering off into territory I just can't follow, and it starts feeling a bit threatening, one way or another.
I don't let the disappointment hit me too hard anymore—I guess life experience has finally helped me grow a thick enough shell.🙏
mistygull16 said:They say this world is a pretty nasty place to live—not because of the villains, but because all the good people just sit there and stay silent.
Personally, I think immature folks need some kind of authority to lean on, provided by more level-headed people, though I guess the real question is how far we let that go before it gets weird.
Once someone actually grows up, they start building their own perspectives through actual thought, but you still need some sort of social code of values to exist, right? Not something rigid that only serves itself, but more like a general compass to follow.
A person without any wisdom is honestly much happier if they stay busy and occupied, whereas only a truly wise person can actually handle and endure joy without completely losing their mind.
hollowpuma762 said:Bringing up a specific case that’s completely out of context while totally ignoring the "seemingly" part of your own quote? Seriously? That kind of logic can be applied to absolutely anything. It’s just a logical fallacy and carries zero weight when you're trying to debunk what was actually said before.
Look, I get why you reacted that way, and it's clearly just a product of misinterpreting things. But I can't tell if your motivation here is just being unnecessarily defensive, or if you genuinely don't see the difference between using a generalization correctly versus using it poorly.
Or maybe it's just a messy mix of both.
hollowpuma762 said:Bringing up a specific case that’s completely out of context while totally ignoring the "seemingly" part of your own quote? Seriously? That kind of logic can be applied to absolutely anything. It’s just a logical fallacy and carries zero weight when you're trying to debunk what was actually said before.
Look, I get why you reacted that way, and it's clearly just a product of misinterpreting things. But I can't tell if your motivation here is just being unnecessarily defensive, or if you genuinely don't see the difference between using a generalization correctly versus using it poorly.
Or maybe it's just a messy mix of both.
wearyhound73 said:So many experiments and overcomplications—you guys are really overthinking this. Family obedience leading to pure evil? Let’s get back to basics. Adults are absolutely under their parents' thumb, whether they're blindly following orders or fighting constantly. My 75-year-old neighbor acts like she’s five years old. Just listening, trying to please everyone, head down, always wearing that fake smile—the kind where you can clearly see the fear underneath. Most people were raised with that same rigid religious mindset, which has massive, devastating consequences for society at large. Broken marriages, kids fighting with parents, and eventually, wars. Such a lovely topic.☕
Tyler Baker6 said:Heh, yeah... but deep down you're probably pissed that you can't actually fix that authority figure.
Seems like we both belong to the same crowd from 'nine faces of the soul.'
Lisa Morales4 said:But who exactly grants that authority to the immature? Where does it actually come from?
Their authority is only as valid as the person giving it to them.
As for those who just seize power for themselves, like dictators, I wouldn't even bother mentioning them in modern society.
Mistakes are actually the best teachers; people mature through the process itself. Because of that, you shouldn't look to anyone else for direction, but rather maintain a general focus and a set of internal guidelines. A leader isn't someone to be idolized, but rather a facilitator whose primary role is to be a servant to everyone.
It’s not far from the truth that many leaders are just fools who need to be kept busy, while the true shepherds are those who know how to enjoy life without losing their temper.
By the way, regarding those medieval American school experiments and movies you guys keep bringing up, I find it a bit tedious. Over here, our entire system—from the classroom all the way to the workplace—revolves around four core pillars:
continuous learning
respect
responsibility
and safety
And these apply to everyone equally. Even a three-year-old learns about having agency (ownership over their actions) and what that means in terms of
learning, respect, responsibility, and safety.
So, what does learning actually entail?
Following agreed-upon instructions and the rules of the game.
Striving to complete tasks—giving it a go and doing your best.
Allowing those around you the space to learn within a dynamic environment.
What about respect?
Being polite and courteous.
Using equipment and resources properly.
Following the directions of those in charge.
Supporting the participation and input of others.
Responsibility?
Punctuality and being prompt.
Coming prepared.
Cleaning up after yourself and leaving things tidy for the next person.
Safety?
Keeping your hands and limbs to yourself.
Using appropriate language.
Maintaining composure.
mistygull16 said:I didn't quite catch your drift there, but let me lay out my take. Take kids, for example. When you let them fly solo without any guidance, they aren't exactly going to sit around and think deeply about life. Instead, they go hunting for anyone who looks like they're in charge, even if it's just some total maniac or a junkie. That’s basically why you see so many kids spiraling into drinking or drugs these days...