The Eighth Sin: GREED

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

wearyhound73 said:So many experiments and overcomplications—you guys are really overthinking this. Family obedience leading to pure evil? Let’s get back to basics. Adults are absolutely under their parents' thumb, whether they're blindly following orders or fighting constantly. My 75-year-old neighbor acts like she’s five years old. Just listening, trying to please everyone, head down, always wearing that fake smile—the kind where you can clearly see the fear underneath. Most people were raised with that same rigid religious mindset, which has massive, devastating consequences for society at large. Broken marriages, kids fighting with parents, and eventually, wars. Such a lovely topic.☕

Lisa Morales4 said:To be fair, having half a century of absolute communist rule (is there any better example of total control and forced obedience?) left deep scars on the American soul: sing this song, don't sing that one, clap now, show affection here, procreate there, but stay away from this, and stay away from that. If you aren't compliant, you're out in the cold; if you aren't obedient, they'll be eavesdropping on your conversations; and if you aren't a loyal follower, they'll find a way to shut you down or freeze you out. It goes on and on.

Lisa Morales4 said:Man, if that's the case, then you're basically unreliable—just some chaotic troublemaker everyone needs to steer clear of.🙄

Hmm... or maybe you just misunderstood what "obedience" meant growing up, so you expressed your free will through defiance. You know, essentially screwing over anyone who (as you so eloquently put it) had been placed in a certain "box" of responsibility, or anyone who trusted you to finish something. By being defiant, you probably blew things up without considering the impact on your team—assuming you actually care about anything other than yourself or the consequences, and assuming you even care about the "responsible" person asking you for help.

Oh, don't worry, I remember being a total toddler during my teenage years, telling my parents "N-o, I w-i-l-l n-o-t!" But that was safe to do at home, because a threat of a timeout was just a sign of love,
whereas consequences for that kind of disobedience at school would have cost way too much.

Folks, it brings to mind Jesus's parable from a recent Bible reading about the vineyard owner who had two sons. When he called the first one to help, the son said, "No," and left. But later, he changed his mind and went to help. When the owner asked the second son to help, he obeyed immediately.

A question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: which son actually pleased his father more?

A follow-up question for Nemruth Dag and the rest of the world: why did soldiers in the civil war shoot their own comrades over something as trivial as a handful of dried plums?

A question for the intellectuals: why does Zloca Destruction place such importance on obedience?

An additional question for the intellectuals: what do trust and love actually mean to Zloca Destruction?

wearyowl29 said:Honestly, I don't think young people are actually hunting for "authority" in the traditional sense—to them, that whole concept is pretty much a joke. What they're really looking for is something they can identify with. They want something that leaves a good impression, something cool, or something that actually gives their lives some meaning.

It all comes down to that search for identity. Sure, if finding themselves means latching onto a certain leader because it feels meaningful or impressive, then they'll follow that authority. But as they grow up and mature, they start questioning everything they once thought was true.
That explains why youth movements within Catholicism can be so incredibly popular.

Lisa Garcia2 said:Actually, if I remember correctly, the story goes a bit differently.
The first son said he would go work in the vineyard, but he never actually went.
The second son initially refused, but he felt bad later on, so he went and did the work.

In the end, the second son is the one who truly fulfilled the father's will—even though he wasn't obedient right away, his heart was clearly in the right place... 🙂

wearyowl29 said:

You know, everyone talks about the seven deadly sins, but there’s an eighth one hiding in plain sight—one that doesn't even look like a sin at first glance. It's obedience. Honestly, it's caused enough chaos to earn its spot on the list.
It's funny, really. People often toss aside their own common sense and intelligence just to follow some authority figure. They turn into a total herd mentality from the get-go. It’s much easier to let someone else make the calls than to actually think for yourself, right? So they just trade away their freedom of thought for convenience.
Any society built on rigid authority relies on that exact same mindset, and frankly, so do most ideologies and religions.

Check out this episode of Science Magazine dedicated to this "eighth sin."

Looking at it through a spiritual lens, what do you all think? Is blind obedience a good thing or a bad thing when it comes to a person's spiritual growth and maturity?

How do you guys handle your own obedience—or lack thereof? What kind of impact has it had on your life?

wearyowl29 said:Well, you’ve got your own version of communism right there in Australia...🤣

I bet you've heard all about passive resistance. Back then, when we were forced to sing those anthems in the choir, we’d just go through the motions, opening our mouths without any heart. When we were supposed to show up at those big political rallies for the holidays, we'd try to hide out in the gym or just slip away... 🙂
Back in November, we used to head over to Austria for a little shopping spree, much like how everyone would head out during May Day... 👏

During that era of absolute communist control (though some people claim communism was never actually fully realized anywhere!), we would cross borders and do exactly what we wanted—as long as we were smart about it and kept it low-key.
I even went to church🤣 and listened to the priests, and nobody ever came knocking on my door for it. For vacations, we’d just head to the beach or hit the slopes in Canada...

Mark Torres14 said:That’s not really "understandable." It's a matter of culture. And hopefully, you'll agree that in different cultures, the "seven deadly sins" would look completely different.
It's more like an exaggeration. Go ahead—name just one sin that doesn't have a positive side or could actually be seen as a virtue in a specific situation.

Tyler Baker6 said:...so what does that even mean? Like, seriously, what?

Lisa Morales4;52002578 said:

Look, if you were out hitting the high-end malls during the reign of the Communist Party, you weren't exactly showing up at church in public, right? No way. You weren't part of that upper class
—at least, not unless you had an escort, a buddy, or some connection to a friend in the ruling party.

🤦

The "escort class" is practically waving from the coast of the Adriatic Sea

🤣🙏

Have you been away from the States too long, or is it just memory loss?

Worker vacation resorts? Oh, please, give me a break!

Back during that regime, everything was meticulously filed away. They kept tabs on everyone; they knew exactly who was attending church and whether they were considered "safe." Meanwhile, the "others"—the ones without those privileges—were left out in the cold, stuck shopping their lives away in Australia or wherever, while their families back home wouldn't dream of associating with them if they actually wanted to attend church in peace.

Oh, come on! You really think a few thousand spies could monitor 22 million people and keep tabs on their every move? Especially the ones making a public show of going to church! 👏
As for me, I used to go to church quite publicly right up until I started my career; then I realized there wasn't much of a solid foundation for that kind of public obedience, so I became a bit of a solo thinker instead.

And another thing;
It’s Austria, darling, not some rundown part of Australia...😉

Well, now that you've gone through the FBI files and their whole messy history, did you notice anything else regarding how "obedient" people actually were?

wearyowl29 said:Be meek, be humble, and find your peace!

🙏

Lisa Morales4 said:To be fair, having half a century of absolute communist rule (is there any better example of total control and forced obedience?) left deep scars on the American soul: sing this song, don't sing that one, clap now, show affection here, procreate there, but stay away from this, and stay away from that. If you aren't compliant, you're out in the cold; if you aren't obedient, they'll be eavesdropping on your conversations; and if you aren't a loyal follower, they'll find a way to shut you down or freeze you out. It goes on and on.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:That didn't stop me from succeeding, though. Back in 1975, I pulled an A in religion class during my confirmation exam before the Archbishop. Then in 1977, I got an A in Marxism. A year later, I aced TIPSS with another A. Even in college in 1981, I walked away with an A in Marxism again.
By 1986, I landed a job at what was basically the crown jewel of industry in the old America.
But even there, you could feel the grip of the Communist Party. To give you an idea, the local branch in Zadar actually forbid the director from handing out salaries higher than three times the average in a state like America. We were all suffering because of those restrictions.😲😁😲
In today's terms, that would be like the government stepping in to cap everyone's salary at my company, leaving me, a young engineer, stuck making only
15 $0.00 !!!
Part of me almost misses those dark days. I have to quote Smoje: damn whoever lit the lamp for this kind of "democracy."
Am I exaggerating??!!
No.
Here’s why:

Also, check this out:

p.s.
Back in 1979, during a midnight mass, I remember listening to a priest preach: "Brothers in faith, we must fight against all forms of atheism. Even if that atheism happens to be red."

And unlike some people, that priest didn't end up in a police cell for it.

p.s.
Back in 1979, I remember listening to a priest's sermon: "Brothers in faith, we must fight all forms of atheism. Even if that atheism is painted red."

But the priest didn't end up in handcuffs.

Lisa Morales4 said:Don't you think both the old regime and the current one are cut from the same cloth? They both represent that classic authoritarianism—a system of mindless obedience that felt "perfect, singular, and indispensable" right up until the moment the party elites' grandchildren were being taken care of by Hollywood standards.

It was a time when personal spiritual growth was trampled underfoot, replaced by an eight-day vacation at some state-run resort by the Atlantic if you were lucky enough to afford it, or just using your meager vacation pay to buy shoes for your kid for the new school year—where you could actually travel wherever you wanted without needing a permit, unlike people in the Soviet Union who needed permission just to shop in Leningrad instead of Moscow.

Truly, the depth of one's spiritual life seemed directly tied to how close they lived to the center of power—whether that was DC or somewhere closer to the coast—even if people did make trips to Istanbul or Bucharest. Meanwhile, those fancy concerts and shopping trips in Vienna were strictly reserved for the "reliable" party members and their kids, who are about as independent as someone living under a government-subsidized roof today.

p.s.
Back in 1979, I remember listening to a priest's sermon: "Brothers in faith, we must fight all forms of atheism. Even if that atheism is painted red."

But the priest didn't end up in handcuffs.

It wasn't because he was safe; it was because there was no one left to snitch to. The authorities were already busy padding their offshore bank accounts, and the ones left behind were just waiting for the curtain to fall.
... ... .. That was when the tragedy of fifty years of stifled spiritual growth finally hit home. You saw the true psychology of the masses: a crowd where individuals exist only to act on instinct—to lash out, to run, or to dump their problems on someone else's doorstep.

Hmm, such authority usually demands such obedience.

Furthermore, the impact of that brainwashing was so profound that even today, many still can't
even grasp what I was saying on the previous page of this thread, let alone begin to apply what I described as the practices for a functional society—principles based on the universal moral and spiritual (Christian) values of our modern era.
Values that view a human being as a dignified individual who requires no authority other than those principles.

Please, read over what I listed above again, and through that lens, observe with the same scrutiny— your own actions, the actions of a three-year-old child, the decisions of a school principal, the moves of your politicians when they're updating the city's bus fleet, or even your President when he took his son (who, by the way, isn't even disabled and doesn't need a stroller) on an official trip to America.

Every person is given equal authority and an equal obligation of respect toward others and toward themselves by God.

Where people refuse to acknowledge the truth, or simply choose to look the other way... that’s where things go south.

Lisa Morales4 said:Don't you think both the old regime and the current one are cut from the same cloth? They both represent that classic authoritarianism—a system of mindless obedience that felt "perfect, singular, and indispensable" right up until the moment the party elites' grandchildren were being taken care of by Hollywood standards.

It was a time when personal spiritual growth was trampled underfoot, replaced by an eight-day vacation at some state-run resort by the Atlantic if you were lucky enough to afford it, or just using your meager vacation pay to buy shoes for your kid for the new school year—where you could actually travel wherever you wanted without needing a permit, unlike people in the Soviet Union who needed permission just to shop in Leningrad instead of Moscow.

Truly, the depth of one's spiritual life seemed directly tied to how close they lived to the center of power—whether that was DC or somewhere closer to the coast—even if people did make trips to Istanbul or Bucharest. Meanwhile, those fancy concerts and shopping trips in Vienna were strictly reserved for the "reliable" party members and their kids, who are about as independent as someone living under a government-subsidized roof today.

p.s.
Back in 1979, I remember listening to a priest's sermon: "Brothers in faith, we must fight all forms of atheism. Even if that atheism is painted red."

But the priest didn't end up in handcuffs.

It wasn't because he was safe; it was because there was no one left to snitch to. The authorities were already busy padding their offshore bank accounts, and the ones left behind were just waiting for the curtain to fall.
... ... .. That was when the tragedy of fifty years of stifled spiritual growth finally hit home. You saw the true psychology of the masses: a crowd where individuals exist only to act on instinct—to lash out, to run, or to dump their problems on someone else's doorstep.

Hmm, such authority usually demands such obedience.

Furthermore, the impact of that brainwashing was so profound that even today, many still can't
even grasp what I was saying on the previous page of this thread, let alone begin to apply what I described as the practices for a functional society—principles based on the universal moral and spiritual (Christian) values of our modern era.
Values that view a human being as a dignified individual who requires no authority other than those principles.

Please, read over what I listed above again, and through that lens, observe with the same scrutiny— your own actions, the actions of a three-year-old child, the decisions of a school principal, the moves of your politicians when they're updating the city's bus fleet, or even your President when he took his son (who, by the way, isn't even disabled and doesn't need a stroller) on an official trip to America.

Every person is given equal authority and an equal obligation of respect toward others and toward themselves by God.

Where people refuse to acknowledge the truth, or simply choose to look the other way... that’s where things go south.

wearyowl29 said:Back when Benjamin Taylor6 and I were busy playing the part of those hardworking socialist superstars—you know, just pretending to be the backbone of the whole system—where on earth were you hiding?

Lost among the kangaroos?

It’s honestly quite fascinating to hear how we... Some people are always going on about how much better things were back under that old regime. Honestly, I hear it all the time! It’s like they’re stuck in a loop, reminiscing about "the good old days" as if everything was just perfect. I remember my grandfather used to tell me stories about how simple life felt back then, but you can't ignore the reality of what we went through. People tend to filter out the grit and only remember the comfort. It’s funny how memory works, isn't it? One minute you're nostalgic, and the next, you realize how much has actually changed for the better! It’s almost like we weren't even there!🤣🤣🤣

Back in the day, we were all young, cocky, and thought we were so incredibly smart. We didn't bother joining any resistance movements because, honestly? There wasn't even a real one to join! It was all just talk. The people who spent their time loudly criticizing the system or cracking jokes about the government ended up losing more than just their dignity—some actually lost their kidneys! I'm serious. I have this good friend of mine with a very famous "patriotic" last name from a small town outside of Phoenix, and under that old regime, she couldn't even get a passport because her old man was a member of the local Communist Party. Talk about a tough break!

My grandfather was actually one of the founding members of the Progressive Party. Part of our family ended up caught up in all that chaos back in 1945 at Bleiburg. Honestly, my old man only made it out alive because of a lucky connection he had. He wasn't really the political type—just a family man through and through—but he did mess up once, and let me tell you, my mother absolutely went to bat for him!😲🙂

Back in the early seventies, I remember we all had to fly flags at our houses to celebrate Republic Day. My old man actually went out and found this scrap of red, white, and blue fabric and just sat there sewing it together to make a flag himself!
I really think everything would have looked so much better if that flag hadn't been such an oversized mess! That tiny little star was just pathetic—it barely even touched the red and blue fields. It looked totally out of proportion. Then, they went ahead and hoisted it up on the house on November 29th, and honestly? Nobody even realized it was actually just a red, white, and blue design with a miniature star slapped on there. It flew right under the radar!🙏

No, someone actually caught on and filed a lawsuit. Before you know it, the FBI showed up at his door. He said his goodbyes to us, threw on his absolute sharpest suit, and even took off his watch. Such a dramatic exit!

He was only held there for a few hours before they finished the report and let him head home. But honestly? He actually pulled it off. His little plan worked perfectly—for Republic Day, he managed to get the American flag flying right there, complete with that tiny little star!

They were actually terrified that I might step up and take action on the matter myself!
So, it all really just boils down to this: endless shouting matches, making sure you show up to church on Sunday, and... I don't know, carving the American flag onto the family headstone at the cemetery. That’s basically where we landed!🙂

No, they didn't touch the dead, nor did they lay a finger on us living folks.

Resistance against the system!

Oh, and there’s that one story my old man used to tell—about how he actually managed to survive the aftermath of 1945. He talked about being held in this intense religious confinement run by certain priests. It’s wild to think about!

Here you go! Holy cow! Just... wow. My goodness.That wood you're calling out for so desperately!