School Reform: Thoughts?

ah 😁

Susan James said:It looks like they haven't.
Actually, I see that as a major upside, since it keeps everything aligned with the competition schedule. 🙏
(It does sting a little bit, though...
Quincy:

The main rule for selecting schools will be that the faculty has to reach a unanimous decision to participate, and they'll also need parental consent.

Which basically means if even one person at the school is against it, the whole school is out. I really hope they can find 48 schools where everyone is on board.

Honestly, I think getting parents to actually agree is going to be the real uphill battle here.
The way everyone has already split into these two angry camps is pretty wild; we're all so worked up and polarized right now that, in my opinion, this whole reform is probably going to hit a massive wall or just stall out completely.

In schools out in the smaller towns, you don't really deal with that headache. :-P Honestly, parents might think whatever they want, but nobody actually has the guts to speak up. Everyone just sits there, nodding along and playing nice during those PTA meetings.

Susan James said:It looks like they haven't.
Actually, I see that as a major upside, since it keeps everything aligned with the competition schedule. 🙏
(It does sting a little bit, though...
Quincy:

The main rule for selecting schools will be that the faculty has to reach a unanimous decision to participate, and they'll also need parental consent.

Which basically means if even one person at the school is against it, the whole school is out. I really hope they can find 48 schools where everyone is on board.

You're totally overlooking how much pressure a principal can put on teachers during those faculty meetings to get them to raise their hands.😁

hiddendriver34 said:You're totally overlooking how much pressure a principal can put on teachers during those faculty meetings to get them to raise their hands.😁

It's a bit of both, really.😁
That unspoken pressure can also come from having "someone on the inside" who's looking to sabotage things behind the scenes.

I really hope there are still schools out there that are collaborative and full of energy.
And I truly hope things start looking up soon.

Honestly, I'm just frustrated that they haven't pulled that funding back from the European Union yet.

Don't sweat it. I know exactly which school in NYC everyone is already on board with... But they’ll make the final call during the 🤣🤣

Honestly, I still think the experiment isn't going to kick off this fall. Once the debates start, it'll be pretty obvious there's still way too much work left to do...

hiddendriver34 said:You're totally overlooking how much pressure a principal can put on teachers during those faculty meetings to get them to raise their hands.😁

Exactly.😁
Quincy:

I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking quite a bit about rhinoceroses lately, though I’m not entirely sure why it’s on my mind at this particular moment, maybe it’s just because of how they carry themselves, that sort of heavy, deliberate presence that seems almost out of place in our frantic, modern world. It’s a strange thing to dwell on, I guess, but there’s something about that singular focus they have, an unhurried way of moving through space that feels almost meditative if you look at it from a certain angle, although I realize that sounds a bit silly when you consider how much damage they can actually do if they lose their temper. I was reading somewhere—or perhaps I just imagined reading it—that their skin is like a suit of organic armor, which makes me wonder about our own lack of such natural defenses in a society that feels increasingly abrasive, but then again, maybe that’s just my own tendency to overanalyze things that don't really require it. Anyway, I’m just rambling now, I suppose, but the thought persists. urbantinker8 says: I suppose I’m just hoping there are some truly rigorous and high-energy schools out there somewhere.

I guess there are quite a few enthusiasts out there, if you ask me.
It’s possible there might be some traces left over, though I guess that’s assuming anything remains at all.

I suppose neither one of them really plays any meaningful part when it comes to actually pushing these reforms through, I guess.

urbantinker8 said:Exactly.😁
Quincy:

I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking quite a bit about rhinoceroses lately, though I’m not entirely sure why it’s on my mind at this particular moment, maybe it’s just because of how they carry themselves, that sort of heavy, deliberate presence that seems almost out of place in our frantic, modern world. It’s a strange thing to dwell on, I guess, but there’s something about that singular focus they have, an unhurried way of moving through space that feels almost meditative if you look at it from a certain angle, although I realize that sounds a bit silly when you consider how much damage they can actually do if they lose their temper. I was reading somewhere—or perhaps I just imagined reading it—that their skin is like a suit of organic armor, which makes me wonder about our own lack of such natural defenses in a society that feels increasingly abrasive, but then again, maybe that’s just my own tendency to overanalyze things that don't really require it. Anyway, I’m just rambling now, I suppose, but the thought persists. urbantinker8 says: I suppose I’m just hoping there are some truly rigorous and high-energy schools out there somewhere.

I guess there are quite a few enthusiasts out there, if you ask me.
It’s possible there might be some traces left over, though I guess that’s assuming anything remains at all.

I suppose neither one of them really plays any meaningful part when it comes to actually pushing these reforms through, I guess.

Who’s actually saying that? Everyone is standing united against it. 🥳

As long as teachers are treated like they're in the wrong the second a parent files a complaint—which, let's be honest, is exactly how it works—as long as you're living under the constant shadow of the Inquisition (since an inspector might actually allow you to appeal their findings, whereas you can't exactly argue with the Inquisition), as long as your principal or the school board won't back you up but instead tosses you straight to the wolves of the Inquisition, and as long as your entire worth as an educator is judged by the sheer mountain of paperwork, spreadsheets, logs, reports, lesson plans, and endless bureaucracy you churn out, we aren't going to entertain any "experiments." Just give us a clear syllabus, an approved textbook, and a straightforward set of rules telling us exactly what needs to be done.

Real experimentation can only happen when a teacher is actually free and isn't being squeezed from every side.

Total nonsense.

The brutal reality of being a teacher😢
Honestly, I was almost moved to tears reading this.

Since you’re already going off about toxic parents and basically modern-day witch hunts, could you dive into what actually happens to teachers when they get caught being awful? Like, what kind of professional "death penalties" are we talking about here?
Because, if I'm being real, I can't think of a single instance where a truly terrible teacher actually lost their job and stayed gone.

redridge13 said:The brutal reality of being a teacher😢
Honestly, I was almost moved to tears reading this.

Since you’re already going off about toxic parents and basically modern-day witch hunts, could you dive into what actually happens to teachers when they get caught being awful? Like, what kind of professional "death penalties" are we talking about here?
Because, if I'm being real, I can't think of a single instance where a truly terrible teacher actually lost their job and stayed gone.

The blame lies squarely with our outdated legislation and those overly protective labor laws.

OT
It’s such a shame we aren't including someone like Maya Angelou in the mandatory reading list this year.

Chloe Roberts2 said:The blame lies squarely with our outdated legislation and those overly protective labor laws.

OT
It’s such a shame we aren't including someone like Maya Angelou in the mandatory reading list this year.

Look, permanent contracts aren't even the real issue—that's strictly a problem within government agencies and public sector bureaucracy.
In the private sector, if you aren't pulling your weight, you're out the door regardless of what kind of contract you signed.
The actual nightmare is that mediocre teachers basically have total immunity. They don't face any real consequences for breach of contract or poor performance, and they don't answer to anyone when they're failing at their jobs. That’s exactly why every single teacher's ultimate goal is to snag one of those lifetime tenure deals; they know once they have it, they can coast right until retirement without a care in the world.

Judging by how many educators are posting on this forum, you'd think every single one of them was living under a constant threat of being fired.☕

redridge13 said:Look, permanent contracts aren't even the real issue—that's strictly a problem within government agencies and public sector bureaucracy.
In the private sector, if you aren't pulling your weight, you're out the door regardless of what kind of contract you signed.
The actual nightmare is that mediocre teachers basically have total immunity. They don't face any real consequences for breach of contract or poor performance, and they don't answer to anyone when they're failing at their jobs. That’s exactly why every single teacher's ultimate goal is to snag one of those lifetime tenure deals; they know once they have it, they can coast right until retirement without a care in the world.

Judging by how many educators are posting on this forum, you'd think every single one of them was living under a constant threat of being fired.☕

But honestly, you don't even need the threat of losing your job to make working in a school feel like a total nightmare. It's more like a slow burn—that relentless, grinding pressure where you realize that out of those 200 students in your classes, any one of them could decide they don't like you or disagree with a grade, leaving you stuck in a constant loop of defending your decisions and dealing with endless pushback.

In most cases, when the district inspectors come knocking, they don't actually find anything majorly wrong; they usually just nitpick some technicality or paperwork error and tell the principal to fix it immediately. That might be why you don't hear much about teachers actually getting sacked.

As for all these posts from people on this board, it almost sounds like every kid mentioned here—and kids in general—are little angels: perfectly behaved, hardworking, polite, and wonderful (though, of course, their teachers would never notice). 😁

wanderingbadger44 said:But honestly, you don't even need the threat of losing your job to make working in a school feel like a total nightmare. It's more like a slow burn—that relentless, grinding pressure where you realize that out of those 200 students in your classes, any one of them could decide they don't like you or disagree with a grade, leaving you stuck in a constant loop of defending your decisions and dealing with endless pushback.

In most cases, when the district inspectors come knocking, they don't actually find anything majorly wrong; they usually just nitpick some technicality or paperwork error and tell the principal to fix it immediately. That might be why you don't hear much about teachers actually getting sacked.

As for all these posts from people on this board, it almost sounds like every kid mentioned here—and kids in general—are little angels: perfectly behaved, hardworking, polite, and wonderful (though, of course, their teachers would never notice). 😁

Exactly this. 😁

Not long ago, I was in high school. My group of friends fought with teachers constantly. They’d skip exams, and then the parents would step in to make excuses because apparently, having seven excused absences is better than one if you want to protect your GPA.

Unthinkable. My upbringing was such that even if I had the worst teacher in the world, I was always the one at fault 😁 while others somehow managed to get good grades. End of story. 😁

I remember middle school, 8th grade, maybe 14 or 15 years old. A geography teacher told some chatty boys to move to the back row. Instead, they picked up the desk and threw it out a third-story window. The kids got a verbal warning, and the teacher got reprimanded by the administration because she "clearly failed to maintain order in the classroom."

There were times when, if a teacher tried to wrap up a unit, students would show up to class with knives or dogs. There’s actual footage of stuff like that from a vocational high school in a small town somewhere.

I don't work in education; I'm nowhere near that field. But today's kids are shielded from everything. No matter how strict my parents were, once my own kid starts school, I'll be just the same.

Kyle Rogers9 said:Exactly this. 😁

Not long ago, I was in high school. My group of friends fought with teachers constantly. They’d skip exams, and then the parents would step in to make excuses because apparently, having seven excused absences is better than one if you want to protect your GPA.

Unthinkable. My upbringing was such that even if I had the worst teacher in the world, I was always the one at fault 😁 while others somehow managed to get good grades. End of story. 😁

I remember middle school, 8th grade, maybe 14 or 15 years old. A geography teacher told some chatty boys to move to the back row. Instead, they picked up the desk and threw it out a third-story window. The kids got a verbal warning, and the teacher got reprimanded by the administration because she "clearly failed to maintain order in the classroom."

There were times when, if a teacher tried to wrap up a unit, students would show up to class with knives or dogs. There’s actual footage of stuff like that from a vocational high school in a small town somewhere.

I don't work in education; I'm nowhere near that field. But today's kids are shielded from everything. No matter how strict my parents were, once my own kid starts school, I'll be just the same.

The teacher didn't lose her job, though. It’s not like she was fired. 😬 But what about the fact that the administration was breathing down her neck and telling her straight to her face that she’s incompetent and can't manage her students? In the end, nothing really changed for her.

Some guy (who even is this person in the job description, anyway?) actually had the audacity to try and micromanage a teacher's work 😲
It absolutely crushed her ego, and she’s been a total wreck from the stress for the last few days 😲
A pure T-R-A-G-E-D-Y
I honestly don't have any other words for it 😢 🙄

Good grief, what kind of parallel universe are you people living in?
Nobody else ever has their performance, quality, or actual results scrutinized... it's always just the poor teachers
And get this—other people can make massive mistakes or deliver terrible results and they just get a slap on the wrist or maybe even a warning, but they rarely get fired!

If you want to know everything you need to know about how they "monitor" school staff (and their supposed quality), just look at the fact that some notorious alcoholic, predator, and mentally unstable woman who worked at my elementary school over 30 years ago is *still* working there today...
Just sweep it under the rug, don't make waves, don't mess with your colleagues... screw the kids. Even if you happen to run into an aggressive parent who threatens to call the school board, they'll just let it slide, and you'll be stuck dealing with his kid for another four years 🙄

redridge13 said:Some guy (who even is this person in the job description, anyway?) actually had the audacity to try and micromanage a teacher's work 😲
It absolutely crushed her ego, and she’s been a total wreck from the stress for the last few days 😲
A pure T-R-A-G-E-D-Y
I honestly don't have any other words for it 😢 🙄

Good grief, what kind of parallel universe are you people living in?
Nobody else ever has their performance, quality, or actual results scrutinized... it's always just the poor teachers
And get this—other people can make massive mistakes or deliver terrible results and they just get a slap on the wrist or maybe even a warning, but they rarely get fired!

If you want to know everything you need to know about how they "monitor" school staff (and their supposed quality), just look at the fact that some notorious alcoholic, predator, and mentally unstable woman who worked at my elementary school over 30 years ago is *still* working there today...
Just sweep it under the rug, don't make waves, don't mess with your colleagues... screw the kids. Even if you happen to run into an aggressive parent who threatens to call the school board, they'll just let it slide, and you'll be stuck dealing with his kid for another four years 🙄

I couldn't have put it better myself. 👍

It feels like some people are just looking for a fight. We aren't even allowed to argue with you because the user is always right. All we're left with is what you wrote here.

But you really should ask yourself who this actually hurts. It certainly isn't us.

War?
Because, excuse me, but I don't think it’s "normal" for some notorious alcoholic to be handing stuff over to my kid, right? If that happened, I’d be reporting them to the principal immediately and then taking it even further...
Or how about a woman who’s clearly having a mental breakdown, showing up to class just to sit there in dead silence for 45 minutes straight—and doing that for four years straight?
Is that supposed to be okay in your book?

If you honestly think those kinds of scenarios constitute a "war" between parents and teachers, then I’m speechless...
It’s honestly no wonder our school system is such a disaster—zero standards, zero oversight, just total chaos... ☕

redridge13 said:War?
Because, excuse me, but I don't think it’s "normal" for some notorious alcoholic to be handing stuff over to my kid, right? If that happened, I’d be reporting them to the principal immediately and then taking it even further...
Or how about a woman who’s clearly having a mental breakdown, showing up to class just to sit there in dead silence for 45 minutes straight—and doing that for four years straight?
Is that supposed to be okay in your book?

If you honestly think those kinds of scenarios constitute a "war" between parents and teachers, then I’m speechless...
It’s honestly no wonder our school system is such a disaster—zero standards, zero oversight, just total chaos... ☕

No, it isn't normal to me. And honestly, because it feels so far from reality, I can't help but feel like you might be making this up. I'm sorry, but since we don't know each other, I have no desire or reason to be unkind to you. It's just that what you described sounds so impossible to me that it doesn't seem plausible.

wanderingbadger44 said:No, it isn't normal to me. And honestly, because it feels so far from reality, I can't help but feel like you might be making this up. I'm sorry, but since we don't know each other, I have no desire or reason to be unkind to you. It's just that what you described sounds so impossible to me that it doesn't seem plausible.

Oh, please, I'm totally lying. I wasn't even expecting a different reaction anyway. 🙂

The education system is completely dysfunctional. If you think a regulatory audit is a nightmare, try jumping into the private sector. I’m talking about unpaid overtime, dragging yourself out of bed at 5:00 AM, and lying awake staring at the ceiling because you're dreading the sheer mountain of problems waiting for you at the office—all while playing a guessing game as to when some corporate headquarters decides profits aren't high enough and starts cutting payroll through layoffs.

But no, apparently an inspection is pure hell, yet a single email complaining about ticket prices can trigger a full-blown town hall meeting for all the first-grade parents, where everyone who doesn't work in academia gets called out just because a principal doesn't know how to hit "reply" and handle a trivial parent complaint properly.🤦

There is zero standardization in how things are done, no external performance reviews, no objective metrics, no actual methods for improvement, and absolutely no meaningful consequences for those who don't pull their weight or, even worse, exploit students. Everything just gets swept under the rug until the person involved eventually retires. Honestly, if you're unhappy with your working conditions, what is the point of having a union at all?