School Reform: Thoughts?

I’m not saying it isn't useful to know, it’s just that my method of learning is honestly a bit chaotic 😁

rowdypanther12 said:I’m not saying it isn't useful to know, it’s just that my method of learning is honestly a bit chaotic 😁

Honestly, I don't really know how their classes are structured—you'd have to sit in on one of their lectures to tell me for sure. But to me, it seems perfectly logical to have a textbook that lays out all the input and output units, provides clear explanations, and offers plenty of examples. Then, during class, everyone can jump on their own computer to actually see those concepts in action. The real issue would be if they didn't get hands-on time to verify what everything is and why it works; otherwise, they're just trying to memorize an example without truly understanding it.

It's the exact same deal as using a guide for Microsoft Excel—it's much easier to grasp the material when you have a book explaining everything, but at the same time, if you aren't actually clicking around in Excel, that book isn't going to do you any good...

I think there’s a massive gap between what Computer Science actually is and what most people expect it to be 😁
It feels like everyone assumes kids just need to learn how to operate a computer—stuff like formatting text, putting together presentations, downloading files, saving things, organizing folders, or using a scanner...
basically, just basic digital literacy.
😁
But instead, they're diving into binary systems and actual programming.
From everything I’ve seen and heard, that’s where the main disagreement lies.

I noticed there’s some programming included, even if they haven't quite reached that part of the curriculum yet. Personally, I think learning to code is such a fantastic idea—and I don't mean that everyone needs to become a software engineer by trade, not even close. It’s more about the mindset. Programming teaches you how to analyze a problem, how to systematically break a massive task down into bite-sized pieces, how to organize steps in the right order, and how to rigorously test your solutions while hunting down bugs. I truly believe it instills a level of analytical thinking and systematic discipline that everyone could benefit from, regardless of their career path. You can apply those problem-solving skills to almost any area of life. There are no shortcuts in coding; you can't skip steps. You simply can't solve a problem until you fully grasp every single aspect of it. It’s actually the total opposite of much of the rest of the schoolwork, where you can often just memorize certain phrases or procedures to pass a test or get an A without having any clue what you're actually doing.

And hey, who knows? Maybe someone will decide to pursue it professionally, start their own tech company in high school, conquer the world with their software, and become a millionaire... honestly, that’s not a bad perspective to have either! :P

Which programming language or software are they actually using to learn how to code?

I suspect there’s more than just the standard Python out there—perhaps some sort of block-based programming version where you just snap command blocks together and plug in your parameters.
It reminds me of something like mBlock for the mBot, which is essentially a variation of Scratch, or even using Swift Playgrounds on an iPad.

They haven't quite reached that level yet, and honestly, I don't have the energy to dive deep into the upcoming curriculum right now; I just flipped through the textbook for about five minutes.😁

Michelle Nelson4 said:I noticed there’s some programming included, even if they haven't quite reached that part of the curriculum yet. Personally, I think learning to code is such a fantastic idea—and I don't mean that everyone needs to become a software engineer by trade, not even close. It’s more about the mindset. Programming teaches you how to analyze a problem, how to systematically break a massive task down into bite-sized pieces, how to organize steps in the right order, and how to rigorously test your solutions while hunting down bugs. I truly believe it instills a level of analytical thinking and systematic discipline that everyone could benefit from, regardless of their career path. You can apply those problem-solving skills to almost any area of life. There are no shortcuts in coding; you can't skip steps. You simply can't solve a problem until you fully grasp every single aspect of it. It’s actually the total opposite of much of the rest of the schoolwork, where you can often just memorize certain phrases or procedures to pass a test or get an A without having any clue what you're actually doing.

And hey, who knows? Maybe someone will decide to pursue it professionally, start their own tech company in high school, conquer the world with their software, and become a millionaire... honestly, that’s not a bad perspective to have either! :P

I honestly don't have anything against programming, especially not for my little girl—she's practically counting down the days until she can dive into robotics. 😂

But, I feel like learning it strictly through the standard school curriculum isn't the best way. A great teacher might make it engaging, but a lot of what's taught feels tedious and unnecessary.
Like these units 😁

Honestly, it drives me absolutely crazy when people have zero clue about basic concepts—like what a network actually is, how a computer functions, or the difference between input and output devices. They don't grasp where data flows or where it gets stored; they just mindlessly swipe through screens without any understanding of the underlying logic or architecture. Then, the moment something goes wrong, they come looking for help but can't even explain the issue because they don't even know the right terminology to describe what's happening.

And once they run into even the tiniest little glitch, they’re totally lost because they lack a fundamental understanding of how things work on a macro level. If you don't realize that a monitor is an output device, you'll end up reporting that your entire computer is broken when, in reality, the screen just isn't plugged in. You'll mash that power button fifty times until you eventually break the hardware itself! I see a thousand different versions of this exact scenario every single day (though, thankfully, I'm currently surrounded by people who actually get it, so I don't have to deal with it as much 😁 ). I really hope my kids don't grow up to be that clueless one day.

I didn't mean they shouldn't know the material, I just meant they shouldn't try to pass by memorizing everything from their notebooks without actually understanding it 😁

Look, let’s just be clear about one thing here. Computer Science isn't exactly hitting the mark right now. Not even close. But then again, I suppose it's still better than nothing at all. Honestly, I don't quite understand why anyone in our American school system—where students are basically forced to memorize endless piles of useless trivia—would expect things to suddenly become perfect overnight. My only real hope is that this reform means we'll deal with a lot less of that mindless rote memorization. It's pretty obvious that our education system hasn't quite figured out how to move past that old-school way of doing things yet...

That’s exactly why I keep bringing up the need for reform. We're teaching "modern" subjects without any of the practical weight from the old ways, trying to prepare kids for a life where there's apparently no ambition left. Instead, they just end up memorizing things that would be so much easier to learn through actual hands-on experience. 😁

rowdypanther12 said:That’s exactly why I keep bringing up the need for reform. We're teaching "modern" subjects without any of the practical weight from the old ways, trying to prepare kids for a life where there's apparently no ambition left. Instead, they just end up memorizing things that would be so much easier to learn through actual hands-on experience. 😁

What do you mean by "not weighed down by old ways"? I took computer science classes quite a while back (I won't even get into how long ago 😁), and believe it or not, we actually covered input and output units, binary and hexadecimal systems, and the fundamentals of programming... The only thing we didn't learn was Windows; we were stuck using MS-DOS 😁

Well, me too, though since this is officially a "new" subject starting this year, it’s 😁the perfect chance to make some changes

And every single year, people claim it’s this perfect, golden opportunity to finally bring about some real change in this country—yeah, right.

My daughter, who’s tackling computer science this year, hasn't even cracked open a textbook yet. Honestly, I can't tell if that's a sign of genius or just pure laziness 🤣. I noticed they've started migrating everything over to Microsoft Office 365. There was absolutely zero mention of input and output devices in the curriculum, at least from what little she tells me. They’ve got digital textbooks and workbooks now; apparently, they’re expected to use Office for all their note-taking. I have no idea how that’s supposed to actually work in practice. She isn't exactly tech-savvy, and her organizational skills leave much to be desired. I use Office myself, but I wouldn't dream of relying on it for everything—I have no clue what they're actually doing during those class hours. We'll just have to wait and see how this whole experiment plays out.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Input and output units? She breezed through those. She even figured out on her own that an iPad screen functions as both an input and output device 😁 It’s definitely useful knowledge to have.

But honestly, once you start looking at the questions in Red Bull and hearing what they claim is the "correct" answer, it can be pretty disheartening. We just end up telling ourselves, "In Computer Science class, the right answer is simply whatever the teacher decided was right—just don't let it get to you." 😁 I felt the exact same way back in college; I eventually just gave up on certain topics altogether. There's such a massive disconnect where Computer Science in our school system seems to be living in its own little bubble, while real-world tech is moving in a completely different direction... To start with, they aren't even speaking the same language 🤣

That said, I don't think the subject is inherently bad. Sure, there’s plenty of nonsense and outdated material mixed in, but there are some genuinely smart concepts too. Plus, it’s finally a mandatory part of the curriculum now, which is about what should have happened twenty years ago.

😕 😕

Wait a second... regardless of all the fluff and useless content, you're saying it's a good thing it became mandatory? 😕
When you consider that about 90% of the "smart stuff" is actually geared toward kids who already have advanced logical reasoning skills, it just doesn't add up. Between the poorly written textbooks and the fact that they can't seem to find—or properly pay—qualified professors, it’s a mess.

This was definitely one of the worst moves by the Secretary of Education (and let's be honest, that's a pretty long list of failures), serving as a textbook example of how to perform damage control for the public.

Another "innovation" popping up in our schools is this elective "digital literacy" for the younger grades. It’s not inherently bad to introduce kids to tech before we start demanding electronic presentations from them, but that's really only an option if you happen to have an after-school program teacher with extra tech training, or if you have the means to drive your child to a "better equipped" school district.🧐
(It isn't exactly groundbreaking, either; most parents could teach this themselves, or a kid could just pick it up on their own. But it gives us this nice little illusion that the school system is actually teaching them something useful.)

Susan James said:😕 😕

Wait a second... regardless of all the fluff and useless content, you're saying it's a good thing it became mandatory? 😕
When you consider that about 90% of the "smart stuff" is actually geared toward kids who already have advanced logical reasoning skills, it just doesn't add up. Between the poorly written textbooks and the fact that they can't seem to find—or properly pay—qualified professors, it’s a mess.

This was definitely one of the worst moves by the Secretary of Education (and let's be honest, that's a pretty long list of failures), serving as a textbook example of how to perform damage control for the public.

Another "innovation" popping up in our schools is this elective "digital literacy" for the younger grades. It’s not inherently bad to introduce kids to tech before we start demanding electronic presentations from them, but that's really only an option if you happen to have an after-school program teacher with extra tech training, or if you have the means to drive your child to a "better equipped" school district.🧐
(It isn't exactly groundbreaking, either; most parents could teach this themselves, or a kid could just pick it up on their own. But it gives us this nice little illusion that the school system is actually teaching them something useful.)

Personally, I feel that Computer Science is something that absolutely ought to be a required part of the curriculum, which it hasn't been until now. We also need more digital resources available. In my opinion, providing every single student with their own tablet or laptop for classwork should be the bare minimum requirement. So, from my perspective, this is a step in the right direction. It’s far from perfect, but I wouldn't expect it to be. Honestly, I’m just surprised the direction is even somewhat decent. For context, I have an old Computer Science textbook from over ten years ago sitting at home, and this new version is definitely an improvement.

If there is some fluff in there, well, just like with any other subject, students will learn it, answer the questions, and promptly forget it. But if there is useful, intelligent material in there—and I am certain there is—those who want to learn it will retain it and keep using it.

P.S. Logical thinking is a skill that develops; nobody is just born with it. Therefore, they really ought to be practicing it.

Susan James said:😕 😕

Wait a second... regardless of all the fluff and useless content, you're saying it's a good thing it became mandatory? 😕
When you consider that about 90% of the "smart stuff" is actually geared toward kids who already have advanced logical reasoning skills, it just doesn't add up. Between the poorly written textbooks and the fact that they can't seem to find—or properly pay—qualified professors, it’s a mess.

This was definitely one of the worst moves by the Secretary of Education (and let's be honest, that's a pretty long list of failures), serving as a textbook example of how to perform damage control for the public.

Another "innovation" popping up in our schools is this elective "digital literacy" for the younger grades. It’s not inherently bad to introduce kids to tech before we start demanding electronic presentations from them, but that's really only an option if you happen to have an after-school program teacher with extra tech training, or if you have the means to drive your child to a "better equipped" school district.🧐
(It isn't exactly groundbreaking, either; most parents could teach this themselves, or a kid could just pick it up on their own. But it gives us this nice little illusion that the school system is actually teaching them something useful.)

Well, I might actually agree with you for once.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Personally, I feel that Computer Science is something that absolutely ought to be a required part of the curriculum, which it hasn't been until now. We also need more digital resources available. In my opinion, providing every single student with their own tablet or laptop for classwork should be the bare minimum requirement. So, from my perspective, this is a step in the right direction. It’s far from perfect, but I wouldn't expect it to be. Honestly, I’m just surprised the direction is even somewhat decent. For context, I have an old Computer Science textbook from over ten years ago sitting at home, and this new version is definitely an improvement.

If there is some fluff in there, well, just like with any other subject, students will learn it, answer the questions, and promptly forget it. But if there is useful, intelligent material in there—and I am certain there is—those who want to learn it will retain it and keep using it.

P.S. Logical thinking is a skill that develops; nobody is just born with it. Therefore, they really ought to be practicing it.

Yeah.
The textbooks are what really matter here.🙄
And the fact that 90% of schools don't even have half the gadgets they actually need (like those "tech labs" that only have maybe ten prehistoric laptops)🤣—that doesn't seem to matter. They say the theory is what counts because... well, computer science... 🙂
which is basically just selling smoke and mirrors. It's just a way to grab more funding.
You'll have untrained teachers whose entire technical expertise is limited to Word and Excel, trying to teach computer science from a book using only five computers for a class of 25 students. There won't be any tablets, and internet access is always questionable.🤣
Wow, what a massive reform.🙏
but yeah, I suppose the big takeaway is just that "computer science has become mandatory for everyone now."🤦

And just how mandatory is it, considering it’s being offered again as an elective course in the 7th grade? 🤦

My fifth grader already swallowed all this stuff—logic gates, binary, computer parts... she’s actually into it.
I’m honestly floored because now I see her copying every single math problem from the textbook straight into her notebook. Apparently, they have to return the textbooks at the end of the year. Up until now, they had free books and workbooks, but they used the math ones heavily. Only the standard textbooks that you weren't supposed to write in were returned. Now, thanks to this "reform," she’s spending half her class time just transcribing problems. WTF? They made things so much easier before, and now they've totally backtracked.
Is this a specific teacher thing, or is this happening in every school district? If I’d known, I would’ve just bought my kid her own book.
What a brilliant "reform"—back to chalkboards and tiles...
And don't even get me started on how most teachers are still tirelessly scribbling on the board, barely finishing their bullet points before the bell rings. Plus, they still love dictating everything. It's the most basic, old-school way of teaching—basically stuck in the era of Kamen. It’s pathetic.

She’s had an absolute rockstar of a teacher until now—the kind of woman who deserves every award and a massive paycheck for her dedication, expertise, and constant innovation. This whole mess just breaks my heart.