School Reform: Thoughts?

Jason Hall35 said:My fifth grader already swallowed all this stuff—logic gates, binary, computer parts... she’s actually into it.
I’m honestly floored because now I see her copying every single math problem from the textbook straight into her notebook. Apparently, they have to return the textbooks at the end of the year. Up until now, they had free books and workbooks, but they used the math ones heavily. Only the standard textbooks that you weren't supposed to write in were returned. Now, thanks to this "reform," she’s spending half her class time just transcribing problems. WTF? They made things so much easier before, and now they've totally backtracked.
Is this a specific teacher thing, or is this happening in every school district? If I’d known, I would’ve just bought my kid her own book.
What a brilliant "reform"—back to chalkboards and tiles...
And don't even get me started on how most teachers are still tirelessly scribbling on the board, barely finishing their bullet points before the bell rings. Plus, they still love dictating everything. It's the most basic, old-school way of teaching—basically stuck in the era of Kamen. It’s pathetic.

She’s had an absolute rockstar of a teacher until now—the kind of woman who deserves every award and a massive paycheck for her dedication, expertise, and constant innovation. This whole mess just breaks my heart.

It's the exact same thing here 🤦

How on earth could the teacher be at fault here?
It’s strictly prohibited according to every single textbook, with the sole exception being foreign language books, which are meant to be used as workbooks.

mystery: why even bother buying a textbook? honestly, you could just tell your kid to write directly in it—then at the end of the school year, you claim it’s "damaged" or "unusable" for the next grade, which somehow justifies getting 40% of your money back... and then you just keep the book for yourself. or, you know, return it and let it end up in some dusty old recycling bin.
it's way cheaper than actually buying a brand-new one just to have something else sitting in a storage bin somewhere.

It’s just some old math textbook. She’s sitting there crossing out tables like she’s rewriting history, yet she breezes through the actual problems in like sixty seconds flat. Honestly, I’d rather just buy her a fresh one.
Edit: I suggested she just use it and tell the teacher we’ll replace it later, but she’s convinced she’ll get an F if she tries anything fancy. I think I might have to go down to the school and stir the pot a little.

Honestly, you don't even need to worry about replacing it with something brand new. They’re just going to treat it like any other scratch or bit of damage—you'll probably just end up paying about 40% of the value and call it a day.

Yeah, but they won't even give her an A. Honestly, I'm just pissed off and disappointed. It sucks because she’s a seriously hardworking student and she nails everything—I hate seeing her waste her time on this kind of nonsense. I'd rather she just stare at the ceiling and take a nap. But hey, I guess that's just how our education system works these days.

Sarah Hall53 said:mystery: why even bother buying a textbook? honestly, you could just tell your kid to write directly in it—then at the end of the school year, you claim it’s "damaged" or "unusable" for the next grade, which somehow justifies getting 40% of your money back... and then you just keep the book for yourself. or, you know, return it and let it end up in some dusty old recycling bin.
it's way cheaper than actually buying a brand-new one just to have something else sitting in a storage bin somewhere.

🤣🤣🤣

Just another gem from the education reform
So, imagine giving a kid a textbook with instructions not to write in it—even though there are clearly designated spaces meant for writing—but then the teacher asks them to write in it anyway (not specifically this case, just an example). Then, when it’s time to turn it back in, the parent gets hit with a fee for 40% of the market price... seriously? 😂
In my book, it should either be free or it shouldn't.
A parent should probably pay for a book that has torn pages, highlighted text, or scribbled notes in the margins, but not for one where they simply filled in the blank spaces provided for answers.
By the way, what happens if a student writes an answer and the teacher marks it with a checkmark or a comment? Is it just the parent footing the bill, or does the teacher share the cost too?
How is that even defined? Since the teacher was technically "writing" in the book as well.🤔

The textbooks for the younger grades—plus all those foreign language workbooks—aren't actually returned at the end of the year, so kids are more than welcome to scribble whatever they want in them.
I honestly find it mind-boggling that any teacher outside of a language department would even think about asking students to write their answers directly in the book, let alone try to grade them that way.

rustyowl7 said:And just how mandatory is it, considering it’s being offered again as an elective course in the 7th grade? 🤦

If you take a moment to look at the logic, you'll see it won't become a requirement for those 7th graders who had it as an elective back in 5th and 6th grade—meaning they might have missed out entirely. Instead, it will be mandatory for the current 6th graders once they hit 7th grade, or rather, for the 8th graders the following year.

It’s funny how math textbooks are usually designed with specific little boxes or designated spaces left open for your answers. In my experience, though, my professors don't bother filling those in, nor do they even bother copying the problems down—they just jot down the problem number and dive straight into the solution. So, I guess whether you actually transcribe the full question or not really comes down to how much your professor likes things tidy. Honestly, it would be a lot more logical if they stopped including all those "fill in the blank" or "color this part" type of busywork questions, too. I can't tell if it's just my luck, or if every textbook is like this except for those Alfin ones.

Sarah Hall53 said:The textbooks for the younger grades—plus all those foreign language workbooks—aren't actually returned at the end of the year, so kids are more than welcome to scribble whatever they want in them.
I honestly find it mind-boggling that any teacher outside of a language department would even think about asking students to write their answers directly in the book, let alone try to grade them that way.

Michelle Nelson4 said:It’s funny how math textbooks are usually designed with specific little boxes or designated spaces left open for your answers. In my experience, though, my professors don't bother filling those in, nor do they even bother copying the problems down—they just jot down the problem number and dive straight into the solution. So, I guess whether you actually transcribe the full question or not really comes down to how much your professor likes things tidy. Honestly, it would be a lot more logical if they stopped including all those "fill in the blank" or "color this part" type of busywork questions, too. I can't tell if it's just my luck, or if every textbook is like this except for those Alfin ones.

@Sarah Hall53, I honestly find it pretty wild that the textbook author actually carved out a specific space for an answer, only to then turn around and forbid both the students and the teacher from actually using it.
Honestly, I feel like this is just patronizing the kids. It puts teachers in such a tough spot where they’re forced to either tell everyone to just copy the answers or settle for one-word responses just to get through the lesson.

It’s not really about practicing handwriting or trying to get used to writing in an old-fashioned script like we used to do back in the day; it's more about the actual process of transcribing. I’m not quite sure what you mean by that—it looks like a bit of a typo or maybe a fragment! If you were trying to share something specific or ask a question, feel free to drop it again. I'm happy to chat once I know what's on your mind!
I honestly think it would make so much more sense if they just dictated the assignments to them and had them write everything down in their notebooks. Right now, they’re spending all this energy just copying things down from the board, which feels like such a waste of time. If we're being real, this feels more like a test of handwriting or language skills than actual math—and since you can already sign up for those language electives anyway, why bother? It would just be much more efficient for everyone involved.

Linguistics nerds practically staged a full-blown revolution when they heard textbooks wouldn't be workbooks anymore and the number of supplemental workbooks was getting capped.
And honestly? I’m glad we did—my current fifth graders write at the speed of a snail on summer vacation. If they didn't have those workbooks, they might manage to copy and solve, like, one single problem in a forty-five minute period. :/

edit:
I mean, why even have space to write down answers in the first place? It's because the textbooks for every grade except first and fifth haven't changed in forever. Up until this year, those books were perfectly normal workbooks. They would still be working just fine if the government wasn't footing the bill for them.

Sarah Hall53 said:Linguistics nerds practically staged a full-blown revolution when they heard textbooks wouldn't be workbooks anymore and the number of supplemental workbooks was getting capped.
And honestly? I’m glad we did—my current fifth graders write at the speed of a snail on summer vacation. If they didn't have those workbooks, they might manage to copy and solve, like, one single problem in a forty-five minute period. :/

edit:
I mean, why even have space to write down answers in the first place? It's because the textbooks for every grade except first and fifth haven't changed in forever. Up until this year, those books were perfectly normal workbooks. They would still be working just fine if the government wasn't footing the bill for them.

Aha. Though I think Michelle Nelson4 was actually talking about the 5th grade 🤔

But it's awesome that you guys fought for it! 👍

Yeah, we’re talking fifth grade here. Only thing is, my kid doesn't even have a workbook from McGraw Hill or some supplemental practice book. What kind of system is this?

Basically, the textbook just has these tables you're supposed to fill out, but she has to manually cross them out and rewrite everything from them before she can even start the actual problems.
Proab—do your kids actually get workbooks?

Jason Hall35 said:Yeah, we’re talking fifth grade here. Only thing is, my kid doesn't even have a workbook from McGraw Hill or some supplemental practice book. What kind of system is this?

Basically, the textbook just has these tables you're supposed to fill out, but she has to manually cross them out and rewrite everything from them before she can even start the actual problems.
Proab—do your kids actually get workbooks?

They do have workbooks. Oops! Edit—sorry, they don't. I remembered us getting two books, but now I realize they were actually just two parts of the same textbook; it just came back to me. So no, ours don't have separate workbooks either.

If Mad says there used to be actual workbooks, then I assume they just reworked the old ones. I suppose they didn't feel like rewriting everything from scratch just to change the questions so they wouldn't be solved directly in the textbook. I don't know, just a guess. It seemed strange to me too. But her book didn't have many tables; most tasks were more like: Expression B = ____ or Value A + B = ______ where she just rewrites that tiny part and solves it. She did have one table, sort of like a crossword puzzle to check her answers. We told her to just snap a photo of it with her phone and print it out so she could use it to verify her solutions, but the teacher didn't require them to cross out the crossword, just to finish the problems.

And since our kids aren't rewriting anything and are just solving things in their notebooks, I haven't gotten too worked up about that specific issue. I'm more bothered by other aspects of this math curriculum (personally, I think the explanations are poor), but that’s a perennial problem with American textbooks. It feels like everyone is competing to see who can cram in the most definitions and overly complicated explanations. As a layman, I can always think of at least five different ways to explain something using simple words and a clear example, yet the authors just don't. What really gets under my skin is that all these lists aren't presented clearly—you know, with bullet points to make it readable—but are instead buried in these marathon sentences full of commas and endless conjunctions. Even when I know what they're trying to convey, I find myself getting confused. A sentence could be concise, simple, and crystal clear, but it’s as if they’ve taken a vow against being lucid...

Jason Hall35 said:Yeah, we’re talking fifth grade here. Only thing is, my kid doesn't even have a workbook from McGraw Hill or some supplemental practice book. What kind of system is this?

Basically, the textbook just has these tables you're supposed to fill out, but she has to manually cross them out and rewrite everything from them before she can even start the actual problems.
Proab—do your kids actually get workbooks?

Well, they should take those complaints straight to the Secretary of Education.
According to the textbook law, schools can only require extra stuff—you know, workbooks, supplements, atlases, whatever—up to a certain amount, like $67 as a mandatory cost. Anything beyond that requires parents to sign off on it first.
But then, it really just comes down to how each individual school board decides to play it...
And when we spoke up about how much this sucks, all we got was some corporate nonsense about "easing the burden on parents" and all those tired cliches about publishing monopolies and whatnot.

Oh, did I mention that the textbooks were literally designed on a scale? Seriously. They had to be 30% lighter than the previous versions. Like, physically weighed them.
And they had to rip out 30% of the actual content and move it online.
All just so they could brag about "lightening the backpacks" and "digitizing the classroom."
It's a total joke.

Personally, I’m all for weighing school supplies down to the gram according to the textbook law. Honestly, those backpacks are already ridiculously heavy as it is, so if we can actually enforce some limits, it might just save some kids from even worse weight than they were carrying before... Just yesterday, I was chatting with a mom whose daughter is in 8th grade. The girl is quite active in sports, too—but now she’s constantly seeing orthopedic specialists because she developed scoliosis. At just 13 years old. Yay.

Michelle Nelson4 said:They do have workbooks. Oops! Edit—sorry, they don't. I remembered us getting two books, but now I realize they were actually just two parts of the same textbook; it just came back to me. So no, ours don't have separate workbooks either.

If Mad says there used to be actual workbooks, then I assume they just reworked the old ones. I suppose they didn't feel like rewriting everything from scratch just to change the questions so they wouldn't be solved directly in the textbook. I don't know, just a guess. It seemed strange to me too. But her book didn't have many tables; most tasks were more like: Expression B = ____ or Value A + B = ______ where she just rewrites that tiny part and solves it. She did have one table, sort of like a crossword puzzle to check her answers. We told her to just snap a photo of it with her phone and print it out so she could use it to verify her solutions, but the teacher didn't require them to cross out the crossword, just to finish the problems.

And since our kids aren't rewriting anything and are just solving things in their notebooks, I haven't gotten too worked up about that specific issue. I'm more bothered by other aspects of this math curriculum (personally, I think the explanations are poor), but that’s a perennial problem with American textbooks. It feels like everyone is competing to see who can cram in the most definitions and overly complicated explanations. As a layman, I can always think of at least five different ways to explain something using simple words and a clear example, yet the authors just don't. What really gets under my skin is that all these lists aren't presented clearly—you know, with bullet points to make it readable—but are instead buried in these marathon sentences full of commas and endless conjunctions. Even when I know what they're trying to convey, I find myself getting confused. A sentence could be concise, simple, and crystal clear, but it’s as if they’ve taken a vow against being lucid...

It became painfully obvious to me when I was in college and picked up a textbook written by an American author for American students. 😁
For the first time in my life, I actually enjoyed reading educational material like it was a novel—it was smooth, engaging, and straight to the point.
It felt like our writers will write a perfectly normal sentence and then immediately try to overcomplicate it just to sound more intelligent.
The textbooks here are a mess; they're flooded with random pictures and graphics, yet when you're actually looking for specific information, it's buried so deep in the text that you can barely find it.

I always knew I’d eventually sit down and try to summarize those textbooks by subject for every grade level. Honestly, if you took the core material for the first four years, you probably wouldn't end up with more than 20 or 30 pages of actual content. Instead, they somehow managed to bloat it into over 1,000 pages total, and to make matters worse, it's all written in such a completely disorganized, muddled style...

So, while the actual concepts aren't necessarily impossible to grasp, the way these books are composed is just dreadful. Especially the science curriculum—it's been driving me crazy for years how consistently poorly handled it is.

Fortunately, back at university, we actually used American textbooks for our core courses, which was a massive breath of fresh air compared to our local authors! That was really when it clicked for me what it actually means to have material that is explained simply and effectively. My only regret is remembering those old analysis sessions where my TA would pull problems from those old Russian workbooks; it was a total 😵 😵 😵

Look, if the grade-level council actually takes some responsibility, maybe they'll figure out something better for next year. Our local school district covered the cost for workbooks and atlases—I think they grabbed art portfolios too. But why they skipped the math workbooks? Who knows. I bet the teacher just wants everyone on the exact same page, so she won't allow half the class using a workbook while the others are stuck scribbling in notebooks. It’s such a waste of time.
The digitization went smooth, though. Honestly, nobody even talks about tablets anymore.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but my dream would be textbooks that actually have integrated work sections built right in. Everything should follow one solid, set curriculum, lesson by lesson, with a massive stash of ready-to-go supplemental materials for the teachers. Just give them a complete package so they can actually teach without jumping through endless hoops whenever they want to spice up a lesson. And obviously, each subject's book would need to be split into thinner volumes so kids aren't lugging ten-pound bricks around in their backpacks.
As it stands, everything depends on how much talent or drive a teacher has, and let's be real—the gap between them is massive. At my kid's school, it's become glaringly obvious how much my child's class stands out, and every teacher says it's because they have a veteran who's been crushing it for generations. We hit the jackpot, while other kids are clearly getting the short end of the stick.
People used to go on and on about the "digital divide" being this huge injustice that we had to fix by giving tech to kids who couldn't afford it. But do we have a "teacher divide" now? Or a "parent divide" fueled by parents who either don't care or don't even know how to help their kid with homework? Simba, Simba... life isn't fair...