School Reform: Thoughts?

Nicholas King said:It seems quite obvious to me that through your phrasing, you are constantly positioning yourself as someone who isn't just above the teachers, but actively opposed to them—someone who drafts theoretical protocols for "perfect scenarios," operating under that logic of "if the facts aren't on our side, we'll just redefine the facts" (and I'm certainly not responsible for the fact that there isn't actually a colleague you can call to step in according to your "perfect protocol," nor am I responsible for your constant refrain about "working with such people," ...) and—last but not least—as someone overflowing with passive-aggressive condescension toward the faculty, all while occupying a role where, by the very definition of the job title, you are supposed to be a professional partner?

I fail to see how exactly I’ve positioned myself against the teaching staff. I’ll address the bolded sections since I may have been misunderstood. My first point wasn't intended to imply that it's somehow my fault no one is around to help; rather, I was simply outlining one possibility that exists in such situations, while acknowledging that no one is obligated to be available and no "free" teacher is required to jump in unless they feel like it. Of course, a person might be busy grading exams, drowning in paperwork, or simply needing a moment to recover after a grueling period and decide they just don't want to step in.

With the second bolded part, I wanted to emphasize that it shouldn't be the role of professional assistants to clean up after teachers just because they've "brought an audit down on the school" or similar issues.

The final point likely refers to my response to @yildirima, and yes, it was a purely passive-aggressive outburst, triggered by his sweeping claim about the uselessness of support staff; I wanted to poke the other side a bit, fueled also by a genuine curiosity about what he considers an ideally organized school system in that regard. Naturally, this doesn't change the fact that it was an immature outburst that likely contributes nothing to the discussion, so I offer my apologies to my colleague for that.

wanderingbadger44 said:Exactly.

The issue with your perspective, though, is that you aren't distinguishing between a substantiated complaint and an baseless one.

Now, don't get me wrong—a baseless accusation isn't exactly a win. Once it's determined that you did nothing wrong, all you really get is the relief of being cleared, which is its own kind of satisfaction. There is absolutely no talk of apologies or penalties for whoever filed that false report.

But a baseless complaint gets dismissed. See what I mean? It carries no weight and results in no consequences for you, aside from the sheer stress and the toll it takes on your nerves.

On the other hand, a substantiated complaint—one that actually proves you were in the wrong—carries real consequences.
Any report regarding a violation of the Timekeeper or standard protocols, or failing to allow a student to complete a test, or even recording a grade for an exam a student couldn't even take because, hello!, they didn't have a pencil to write with... those reports would be taken very seriously by the administration.

Do you see the distinction between a report that sticks and one that gets tossed out?

Let me lay it out one more time:
if I refuse to give a student an 'A' when they have a 3.71 GPA and a parent files a grievance, that complaint will be deemed baseless and dismissed. I won't face any official trouble because of it (again, excluding the headache and the stress).

However, if I bypass protocol by rescheduling a test on my own whim, or if I fail to maintain a quiet environment in the classroom, or if students lose their testing time because I spent the whole period arguing with a kid who forgot their supplies, then the complaint is substantiated. In those cases, beyond just the stress, I am facing genuine, serious disciplinary action.

But where is the actual logic in that? Does anyone really think a teacher starts an argument just for the sake of being difficult or to sabotage everyone else's focus during a test? Students have rights, certainly, but they also have responsibilities, such as showing up with basic supplies and actually following instructions. If a student disrupts the entire process, shouldn't the consequences fall on them rather than making the teacher responsible for both their own conduct and the chaos caused by someone else?

Let’s give my colleague @yildirima some space; he and I have been at each other's throats for quite some time now 😬.

I won't nitpick every single sentence you write—that would be tedious—but just to keep it brief: in that post where you expressed confusion over why someone would claim you're positioning yourself against the teachers, you slipped up with the phrasing "I wanted to appeal to the other side." There isn't an "other side," really. In a perfect world, there aren't any sides at all, even if you try to factor in parents, students, and the local community. Everyone is working toward the exact same goal.

Furthermore, by outlining these desirable or ideal procedures within a desirable—or rather, perfect, and therefore non-existent—environment, you are essentially validating those who view you as a useless and unnecessary participant in this profession. In my estimation, a specialist consultant should focus on—well, I suppose—collaborating, which means encouraging teachers to adopt best practices within the realm of possibility. That bit of advice about calling a colleague to "step in" sounds like a total joke to me, because it presumes the existence of a system where substitute teachers are constantly available, and where a teacher knows at any given moment exactly which colleague is free and reachable.

Do you actually know of a single school in the States that has established such a system?

Now, I'll go into that tired old sports analogy—you know the one: a football coach designs this flawless play where our winger cuts inside, drawing the opposing fullback out of position, which opens up a perfect corridor for our fullback to charge through and deliver a cross that our striker inevitably hammers home... except then you show up to a game against a team whose fullback has no clue what he's doing, and even if our winger wanders off into the third row of the bleachers, that defender won't budge an inch from his spot.

In that specific moment, what good are your perfect schemes or your meticulous preparation? For heaven's sake, there is no corridor.

Ronald Chavez2 said:But where is the actual logic in that? Does anyone really think a teacher starts an argument just for the sake of being difficult or to sabotage everyone else's focus during a test? Students have rights, certainly, but they also have responsibilities, such as showing up with basic supplies and actually following instructions. If a student disrupts the entire process, shouldn't the consequences fall on them rather than making the teacher responsible for both their own conduct and the chaos caused by someone else?

Exactly. But a school district inspector or an administrator won't see it that way. They always start with the assumption that the student is innocent, leaving it up to the teacher to somehow prove they aren't at fault. The complaint was filed against the teacher, not the kid.
It’s a broken system. Honestly, thank God it’ll eventually collapse under its own weight because our demographics just won't support this kind of dysfunction much longer.
I know this means I could lose my job too, but I'd rather be broke than watch everything we tried to fix—despite every warning from teachers—just vanish into thin air by 3 p.m. 🙂

Ronald Chavez2 said:But where is the actual logic in that? Does anyone really think a teacher starts an argument just for the sake of being difficult or to sabotage everyone else's focus during a test? Students have rights, certainly, but they also have responsibilities, such as showing up with basic supplies and actually following instructions. If a student disrupts the entire process, shouldn't the consequences fall on them rather than making the teacher responsible for both their own conduct and the chaos caused by someone else?

I don't think you quite grasp that canceling, postponing, and rescheduling a written exam affects every single student in that department, not just Perica, who was the one without a pencil causing the mess. This hits people like Marica, who spent her time studying specifically for today, only to have her schedule pushed back when she actually had a chemistry test coming up next week. Marica wanted to get this over with TODAY. And let me be clear: Marica had her pencil, she even had a spare, and neither Marica nor her mother want this delay—in fact, they are actively pushing back against it.

Are you seriously suggesting that when I write up the formal request to the administrator to halt and reschedule a test via the school's academic calendar, I should list "student didn't have a pencil" as a valid justification? Are you being for real right now?

And then what? You, me, and the principal all sit down for a meeting to debate and hammer out a new date, cramming it into an already packed academic calendar and filing all the official paperwork just because?

That’s just not how it works!
"Here, Perica, just take my pencil. Just please give it back when you're finished."

Linda Price5 said:So, is there really no way to argue that during a standardized exam, students shouldn't be getting up, whispering to neighbors, or passing notes back and forth? If you don't have a pencil, you should just sit there and stare at the ceiling until the bell rings. And if they break the rules, we should deal with them swiftly and decisively.

If that's the case, why even bother with testing at all? 😁 Just hand out the answer keys to everyone, give the whole class an A, and let them play solitaire until the period ends.

THIS is the most accurate summary of this entire thread.

It’s also the saddest way to describe our entire American education system.

But it’s the most realistic view, too. I mean, once they actually make it to college... they'll be adults. No more mommy and daddy holding their hands. If parents try to intervene then, they're going to get shut down immediately.

That’s how you separate the wheat from the chaff.

It really just comes down to how we raise kids in school. It's pretty depressing.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Basically, looking at these ten points, there isn't a single meaningful change regarding teacher training itself. Everything else, naturally, needs a complete overhaul. My personal favorite has to be that first point about exclusion and segregation—it’s actually quite funny how they don't mention those "hundreds of online articles" claiming that "everyone" is giving up on inclusion. And honestly, I'll pass on all the empty rhetoric about kids staring at screens and becoming mindless. Like I mentioned before, most people seem to think a chalkboard and some chalk are the absolute peak of technology for children, even though those very same people would demand laptops, projectors, and free high-speed Wi-Fi at school for their own personal use (point 5). Apparently, for these kids, that's just too much advanced tech; their little brains can't handle it, especially while they're still in elementary school. Though, reading through all these supposed struggles with mastering a simple tablet, I feel like I'm just scrolling through a generic newsfeed...

As I was saying, it's basically the National Institutes of Health level of expectations applied to a bare minimum...

Why do you think chalk and boards are enough for those who are against tablets?
I'm actually against tablets myself. However, I don't think the talk about them "dulling" kids is just empty rhetoric. There really are studies linking tech usage to issues with concentration and fine motor skills in children. So, pushing this into schools without a clear objective, could definitely be harmful. I'm mostly thinking of the kids whose parents handed them a device the moment they were born and didn't bother teaching them how to learn in other ways—kids who can't tie their shoelaces or hold a pencil correctly, and who struggle just to write with a pen. Sure, those might seem like old-fashioned methods, but those skills have real benefits once you master them.

And honestly, it's hard to see any real benefit if you look at the reasons listed below regarding students forgetting pencils or notebooks at home. Just imagine one student forgets their tablet, another hasn't charged it, and the whole class period is wasted arguing about it while the lesson ends up being assigned as homework.
When you have this kind of attitude toward students, introducing smartboards and tablets won't do anything special to improve teaching or education. In fact, from a disciplinary standpoint, it might just highlight how helpless the teachers are.

On top of all that, we still have a huge amount of paper textbooks to lug around (and by the way, will all the books be free in the end, or just for certain subjects?)

Oh, and since we're discussing tablets and laptops in certain countries, it would be great if you could describe how much hands-on learning those kids actually get during class (like field trips, collaborative learning, experiments, or projects/posters that aren't just done by parents) and how much physical activity they get compared to the kids in our schools.

All the textbooks are free this year. But honestly, when it comes to the workbooks... nobody has any clue what’s actually going to happen for the first and fifth grades—especially with that weird rule about limiting required materials to 100 items or $67. It’s just a mess.
My colleagues over in the history and geography departments are absolutely pulling their hair out right now—specifically because of those two atlases, $67. Since they can't list them as mandatory, they're stuck. I mean, how are students supposed to do any actual critical thinking or creative projects without an atlas? It just doesn't make sense...

Sarah Hall53 said:All the textbooks are free this year. But honestly, when it comes to the workbooks... nobody has any clue what’s actually going to happen for the first and fifth grades—especially with that weird rule about limiting required materials to 100 items or $67. It’s just a mess.
My colleagues over in the history and geography departments are absolutely pulling their hair out right now—specifically because of those two atlases, $67. Since they can't list them as mandatory, they're stuck. I mean, how are students supposed to do any actual critical thinking or creative projects without an atlas? It just doesn't make sense...

What about the elective courses?
(that whole political standoff between the Mayor and the Secretary of Education🤔)

And the fact that they won't let them have atlases just shows they're banking entirely on Google Maps—which basically means assuming every kid has a tablet and high-speed internet 24/7.🤣

Sarah Hall53 said:All the textbooks are free this year. But honestly, when it comes to the workbooks... nobody has any clue what’s actually going to happen for the first and fifth grades—especially with that weird rule about limiting required materials to 100 items or $67. It’s just a mess.
My colleagues over in the history and geography departments are absolutely pulling their hair out right now—specifically because of those two atlases, $67. Since they can't list them as mandatory, they're stuck. I mean, how are students supposed to do any actual critical thinking or creative projects without an atlas? It just doesn't make sense...

Honestly, the whole situation feels incredibly bleak. We can only sit here and hope this entire mess collapses once the current administration is ousted and someone new takes over—though, if we follow the usual pattern of American politics, it’s often just one endless circle of shit replacing itself with another.

Susan James said:What about the elective courses?
(that whole political standoff between the Mayor and the Secretary of Education🤔)

And the fact that they won't let them have atlases just shows they're banking entirely on Google Maps—which basically means assuming every kid has a tablet and high-speed internet 24/7.🤣

Even with the election stuff... I was actually stuck doing inventory this past Friday, counting up how many German textbooks we need to order for every single grade level.

Oh, Google Maps will be just great for them.
A) For looking at historical maps and
B) In a school where the first floor can barely catch a signal—I mean, I struggle just to log into the digital grading portal half the time.

Susan James said:Why do you think chalk and boards are enough for those who are against tablets?
I'm actually against tablets myself. However, I don't think the talk about them "dulling" kids is just empty rhetoric. There really are studies linking tech usage to issues with concentration and fine motor skills in children. So, pushing this into schools without a clear objective, could definitely be harmful. I'm mostly thinking of the kids whose parents handed them a device the moment they were born and didn't bother teaching them how to learn in other ways—kids who can't tie their shoelaces or hold a pencil correctly, and who struggle just to write with a pen. Sure, those might seem like old-fashioned methods, but those skills have real benefits once you master them.

And honestly, it's hard to see any real benefit if you look at the reasons listed below regarding students forgetting pencils or notebooks at home. Just imagine one student forgets their tablet, another hasn't charged it, and the whole class period is wasted arguing about it while the lesson ends up being assigned as homework.
When you have this kind of attitude toward students, introducing smartboards and tablets won't do anything special to improve teaching or education. In fact, from a disciplinary standpoint, it might just highlight how helpless the teachers are.

On top of all that, we still have a huge amount of paper textbooks to lug around (and by the way, will all the books be free in the end, or just for certain subjects?)

Oh, and since we're discussing tablets and laptops in certain countries, it would be great if you could describe how much hands-on learning those kids actually get during class (like field trips, collaborative learning, experiments, or projects/posters that aren't just done by parents) and how much physical activity they get compared to the kids in our schools.

From what I've observed with several elementary schoolers, most of the damage has already been done by those repetitive "activity books" and similar nonsense. Heaven forbid a child actually has to transcribe a simple problem like 8+3= into a notebook; apparently, we're terrified their fingers might wither away if they exert any real effort.

Sarah Hall53 said:Even with the election stuff... I was actually stuck doing inventory this past Friday, counting up how many German textbooks we need to order for every single grade level.

Oh, Google Maps will be just great for them.
A) For looking at historical maps and
B) In a school where the first floor can barely catch a signal—I mean, I struggle just to log into the digital grading portal half the time.

This isn't some grand failure of educational reform; it’s just pure, unadulterated incompetence from the principal.

Something this simple could be fixed with a relatively small budget, if anyone actually cared.

Sarah Hall53 said:I’ll make one honorable exception for those dual-subject instructors who actually teach their second subject and have put in the hours alongside us in the trenches. To me, they’re the only ones who truly count as both specialists and collaborators. In fact, I’d love to see that turned into an actual legal requirement: you should have to teach your second subject for at least 4 to 6 hours a week. It would be a great way to build some empathy, don't you think? ☕
It reminds me of how things work over in Germany—even the principals there have certain obligations, like having to manage at least one classroom themselves, just so they don't lose touch with what's actually happening on the ground.

Spot on. This definitely needs to happen.

Nicholas King said:This isn't some grand failure of educational reform; it’s just pure, unadulterated incompetence from the principal.

Something this simple could be fixed with a relatively small budget, if anyone actually cared.

Exactly. It’s about those administrators who act like absolute monarchs—ruling over life and death in their schools regardless of how incompetent they actually are.
And then, instead of addressing that—like, maybe limiting a principal's unchecked power, for instance—or fixing those useless, outdated teaching methods, they go out and try to roll out tablets. They even want to keep the standardized testing schedule (which, by the way, is totally at odds with the thematic planning the new reforms are asking us to do... but hey, "just work some magic," as they told us during those training sessions 🙄).
All of this could be overhauled way more affordably. And honestly? It would do much more good for everyone actually working in the system.

It's pretty wild that CNN is still airing commercials for the "School of Hard Knocks." LOL

Anyone else eyeing this textbook?

I can’t get over the ridiculous amount of photos and drawings showing candy, cakes, pastries, pizza, sugar packets, chocolate, soda, lollipops, and all sorts of baked goods.
Sure, there are some apples too.

Look, textbooks are being made in an era where everyone is screaming about how childhood obesity rates are at an all-time high. Is it really asking too much to want the perception of "food" to change just a little bit, even in a math book?

I didn't catch that in my textbook—it might just be a different publisher they’re using. But I have definitely noticed how poorly some of this material is structured. Honestly, I find myself spending my entire weekends explaining things that should have been clear in the first place, and there's quite a lot of 😵

Computer Science is exactly the same story.

It feels like they’re actually competing to see who can write the most incomprehensible, mile-long sentences. You see it even in the lower grades; for example, in junior science, the definition of what makes up an Address is this massive, convoluted paragraph instead of just saying
An Address consists of:
- street name
- house number
- ...

I spend half my time helping students break down these cryptic, tangled-up compound sentences into simple, digestible pieces. I truly feel for the kids whose parents or teachers don't step in to help—especially if those adults struggle with it themselves. If they don't get clarity now, they'll just end up with a lifetime of confused, jumbled-up concepts floating around in their heads.

Yeah, they all claim to have "simplified" things, but honestly, they just made them more complicated.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it pretty ridiculous that fifth graders in Computer Science classes are forced to memorize "input" and "output" units.
What's the point, especially for real-world application later on? Wouldn't it be better if they actually had the tools in front of them and learned through hands-on experience? To me, this feels like a perfect example of everything that's wrong with our education system.

Input and output units? She breezed through those. She even figured out on her own that an iPad screen functions as both an input and output device 😁 It’s definitely useful knowledge to have.

But honestly, once you start looking at the questions in Red Bull and hearing what they claim is the "correct" answer, it can be pretty disheartening. We just end up telling ourselves, "In Computer Science class, the right answer is simply whatever the teacher decided was right—just don't let it get to you." 😁 I felt the exact same way back in college; I eventually just gave up on certain topics altogether. There's such a massive disconnect where Computer Science in our school system seems to be living in its own little bubble, while real-world tech is moving in a completely different direction... To start with, they aren't even speaking the same language 🤣

That said, I don't think the subject is inherently bad. Sure, there’s plenty of nonsense and outdated material mixed in, but there are some genuinely smart concepts too. Plus, it’s finally a mandatory part of the curriculum now, which is about what should have happened twenty years ago.