School Reform: Thoughts?

nimblelynx7 said:We’d have a travel culture too if we had their income levels.

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Exactly.
@Susan James
The truth is, unless someone has a family cabin out in the mountains or a beach house waiting for them, most people wouldn't even leave their own zip code all year round simply because they lack the funds.
Even when they do manage to scrape together enough for a week or two of vacation, it usually leaves them feeling pretty stretched thin financially.

nimblelynx7 said:We’d have a travel culture too if we had their income levels.

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wearybison8 said:Exactly.
@Susan James
The truth is, unless someone has a family cabin out in the mountains or a beach house waiting for them, most people wouldn't even leave their own zip code all year round simply because they lack the funds.
Even when they do manage to scrape together enough for a week or two of vacation, it usually leaves them feeling pretty stretched thin financially.

You guys are focusing on American financial limitations, though I think many would disagree with you there😬, but that's irrelevant to this topic anyway.
Actually, it is relevant. If families can barely afford a week or two at the beach, how are they supposed to pay for expensive tutoring, language schools, and all those other extracurriculars that are becoming increasingly hard to find in public schools?
So, I guess I just have to rely on my own wits and my own free time....

I actually wrote about this on the "inquiry-based learning" thread. Apparently, that approach hasn't been the best fit in places like Sweden (even though it's frequently cited and dreamed about here), mainly because for a child to succeed in that, they need certain foundational skills before they dive into self-directed exploration under a teacher's guidance. I wrote:
Reddit

Besides that, so much happens outside the classroom during these "inquiry" projects. You can learn so much through actual experience—faster and more deeply than just listening to stories in class or doing group work out of a textbook with pictures.
Here, for every little outing, you need parental permission (and then you're stuck praying that at least one parent doesn't say no, or that some kid doesn't mess up and get the whole class grounded).

Interactive, kid-friendly museums have only recently started popping up here. In places like Sweden, they're the norm, so a good chunk of education happens there too...and let's not forget that those families have a much stronger culture of traveling abroad to experience different cultures and visit museums with their kids.

So, our kids are limited right from the start by a lack of basic knowledge (oh, and I forgot to mention the lack of accessible preschool programs), which means trying to force the Swedish model into our schools could actually lead to an even faster decline in education quality....

The lack of family travel could be solved by offering more field trips funded by the state budget, especially if they take place outside the local area (meaning including things like buses, food, and lodging). If all parents gave their consent, 😬

urbantinker8 said:I don't really need some revolutionary pedagogical bestseller from Scandinavia to tell me what’s already obvious; I think we know exactly what we're up against in my classroom every single day.
For years now, I've been watching the exact same systemic failures play out in our schools—the very things the author is pointing out here—and yet, somehow, our educational reforms just seem to keep doubling down on the same mistakes.
It’s all this push for individualization, constant adjustments, trying to lighten the load where it might actually be needed and ignoring it where it isn't, avoiding direct instruction like it's a plague, being terrified of giving a bad grade, worrying about stress levels, and basically walking on eggshells around every single student and their parents.
I mean, honestly, should anyone even be surprised when the results turn out to be mediocre... across the board?🤣😂

From what I can gather from your posts, it sounds like you guys are still battling it out with old chalkboards and a lack of reliable Wi-Fi, mostly focusing your energy on 🥳
(if it isn't focused on the parents 🙂)

The way they handle individualization in places like Sweden has just created a massive gap between students; basically, the ones with more resources at home are the ones who pull ahead.
(To be honest, I'm not sure if it's the same story in Finland, which our former Secretary of Education loved to bring up. The author mentions that Sweden actually had some of the worst results in Scandinavia. She barely touches on Finland, but she does note that France went through a similar fiasco, and the USA has been pretty critical of that specific teaching model... I wouldn't even call this book a "revolutionary bestseller"—it feels more like an overview of events in another country that gets slightly romanticized here. People act like everything is perfect because schools have high-speed internet, IKEA furniture, and tablets everywhere...)

In an attempt to make education accessible to everyone, we’ve ended up with a system where the kids who can afford private preschools, elite private academies, tutors, and travel—plus parents who have the time to stay deeply involved and a library full of encyclopedias—are the winners...
while everyone else is left behind.

With that kind of educational divide, I'm not even that worried about my own kid (she'll be fine because we make sure she has everything she needs at home). What really worries me is who is going to be treating us in twenty years when my generation of doctors retires... or leaves earlier because they move to Sweden or somewhere else where the pay is better.

And I think every teacher, regardless of the subject, needs to ask themselves these same questions.
Whether they are delivering a lesson, grading a test, or dealing with a parent showing up at the faculty lounge unannounced because of a bad grade...

It’s all about the flashy stuff lately—searching for #selfentertainment (like some Netflix binge), those #becauseIdeserveit petitions (very L'Oréal vibes), "learning without effort"—which basically just means sitting around without actually breaking a sweat—gamification, and all these colorful little projects... and honestly, most people seem totally fine with it. The public, the students, even the parents—everyone’s just happy-go-lucky when they get this kind of treatment.
But then you have the folks who actually dare to say that you can't bake bread without working the dough, or that you can't gain knowledge without actually putting your butt in a chair—and look, you can't connect dots or draw conclusions if you don't even know the basic damn facts first (which requires actually sitting down, reading, and staying focused long enough to memorize them). Basically, there is a way to learn, but it's nothing like the superficial stuff we've been seeing lately—kind of like how you see with the anti-vaxxer and anti-masker crowd. Well, those people? They just get labeled as lazy, old-fashioned, or "obstructionists" who are standing in the way of progress...

Wait, is there actually a theory floating around now that the modern education system—the one currently shaping our kids—is fundamentally flawed because it focuses on cramming piles of facts that most students just dump out of their brains three days after the final exam?

🤣 🤣 🤣

Susan James said:From what I can gather from your posts, it sounds like you guys are still battling it out with old chalkboards and a lack of reliable Wi-Fi, mostly focusing your energy on 🥳
(if it isn't focused on the parents 🙂)

The way they handle individualization in places like Sweden has just created a massive gap between students; basically, the ones with more resources at home are the ones who pull ahead.
(To be honest, I'm not sure if it's the same story in Finland, which our former Secretary of Education loved to bring up. The author mentions that Sweden actually had some of the worst results in Scandinavia. She barely touches on Finland, but she does note that France went through a similar fiasco, and the USA has been pretty critical of that specific teaching model... I wouldn't even call this book a "revolutionary bestseller"—it feels more like an overview of events in another country that gets slightly romanticized here. People act like everything is perfect because schools have high-speed internet, IKEA furniture, and tablets everywhere...)

In an attempt to make education accessible to everyone, we’ve ended up with a system where the kids who can afford private preschools, elite private academies, tutors, and travel—plus parents who have the time to stay deeply involved and a library full of encyclopedias—are the winners...
while everyone else is left behind.

With that kind of educational divide, I'm not even that worried about my own kid (she'll be fine because we make sure she has everything she needs at home). What really worries me is who is going to be treating us in twenty years when my generation of doctors retires... or leaves earlier because they move to Sweden or somewhere else where the pay is better.

And I think every teacher, regardless of the subject, needs to ask themselves these same questions.
Whether they are delivering a lesson, grading a test, or dealing with a parent showing up at the faculty lounge unannounced because of a bad grade...

I mean, if you actually took a moment to read what I’m saying instead of just jumping to conclusions and basically bulldozing my points, you might realize I’ve been saying this for ages. I’ve always maintained that the Finnish model isn't some divine, flawless blueprint for the world, and honestly, I find this whole obsession with individualized instruction to be pretty problematic for everyone involved—including the students themselves, since we seem to be inadvertently raising a generation of people who can't function on their own. It really bugs me how much everyone celebrates "project-based learning" as some kind of miracle, when in reality, it often feels like an absolute flight from actual direct instruction, leaving kids to wander around with zero foundational knowledge because they haven't been given any real input. And then there’s the issue of parents... I think we seriously need to dial back the constant interference in educational reforms at every single level, because, well, looking at where things stand now, it's pretty obvious that letting everyone have a say in how schools run has led us down a rather questionable path.

So, I was looking through that Swedish pedagogical handbook again, and honestly, there isn't much in the way of anything new there, at least not from my perspective.
So, I see you've finally discovered how hot water works.
I mean, congratulations—it’s definitely better to have it happen now than to be stuck waiting forever, I suppose.👍

Sarah Hall53 said:It’s all about the flashy stuff lately—searching for #selfentertainment (like some Netflix binge), those #becauseIdeserveit petitions (very L'Oréal vibes), "learning without effort"—which basically just means sitting around without actually breaking a sweat—gamification, and all these colorful little projects... and honestly, most people seem totally fine with it. The public, the students, even the parents—everyone’s just happy-go-lucky when they get this kind of treatment.
But then you have the folks who actually dare to say that you can't bake bread without working the dough, or that you can't gain knowledge without actually putting your butt in a chair—and look, you can't connect dots or draw conclusions if you don't even know the basic damn facts first (which requires actually sitting down, reading, and staying focused long enough to memorize them). Basically, there is a way to learn, but it's nothing like the superficial stuff we've been seeing lately—kind of like how you see with the anti-vaxxer and anti-masker crowd. Well, those people? They just get labeled as lazy, old-fashioned, or "obstructionists" who are standing in the way of progress...

That’s pretty much it, I suppose.
I was sitting there thinking about the Denver Nuggets and how Jokić just operates on a completely different frequency than everyone else in the league, which I guess is why people get so caught up in whether his style actually fits the modern era or if it’s just an anomaly. It’s kind of like watching a master chess player try to play basketball; he isn't really playing the game we see on TV, he's playing a version of it that exists three moves ahead of everyone else, and maybe that’s why it feels so effortless yet so bafflingly efficient at the same time. I suppose when you look at the way the whole roster functions around him, it’s less about individual athleticism and more about this collective, almost rhythmic understanding of space and timing, though I wonder if the rest of the NBA is actually learning from it or if they're just going to keep trying to outrun him until they realize that running faster doesn't necessarily mean you're winning.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Wait, is there actually a theory floating around now that the modern education system—the one currently shaping our kids—is fundamentally flawed because it focuses on cramming piles of facts that most students just dump out of their brains three days after the final exam?

🤣 🤣 🤣

Actually, they still do, but now kids have to dig up those facts themselves and try to make sense of them—googling every third term from a slide deck and all that. 😂
Nowadays, they actually end up just rote learning because if a parent doesn't step in to explain what a specific term means or help them grasp the concept, they're stuck.

My little one is lucky with her teachers, but there are these two who really took a dislike to this project-based learning approach. They decided that meant they didn't have to teach or explain anything anymore, and honestly, I feel like I'm doing their jobs for them.
If my daughter just wanted to memorize things without understanding them, I’d probably let her, since half of that stuff doesn't matter anyway
but she won't, so I'm the one sitting there explaining everything she should have learned in class.

And what happened back when they were all stuck using those old mimeograph machines, layering sheet after sheet of stencil paper just to copy stuff into notebooks? Was that somehow considered better or more efficient by everyone?
At the end of the day, a bad teacher is a bad teacher, regardless of which curriculum or teaching method they’re following.

If you ask me, the recent educational reforms have actually managed to weed out some of the nonsense people used to push, though I definitely think there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Now, my daughter hasn't really had any issues—she doesn't complain about anything—but we did deal with a bit of chaos regarding her math teacher swaps once or twice. Luckily, I was able to smooth things over without much trouble. That said, at her age, she really ought to be putting in five times the effort I am! Besides, I know plenty of other parents who vent constantly about teachers I’ve never even heard of. So... I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

Michelle Nelson4 said:And what happened back when they were all stuck using those old mimeograph machines, layering sheet after sheet of stencil paper just to copy stuff into notebooks? Was that somehow considered better or more efficient by everyone?
At the end of the day, a bad teacher is a bad teacher, regardless of which curriculum or teaching method they’re following.

If you ask me, the recent educational reforms have actually managed to weed out some of the nonsense people used to push, though I definitely think there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Now, my daughter hasn't really had any issues—she doesn't complain about anything—but we did deal with a bit of chaos regarding her math teacher swaps once or twice. Luckily, I was able to smooth things over without much trouble. That said, at her age, she really ought to be putting in five times the effort I am! Besides, I know plenty of other parents who vent constantly about teachers I’ve never even heard of. So... I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

Exactly.

Michelle Nelson4 said:And what happened back when they were all stuck using those old mimeograph machines, layering sheet after sheet of stencil paper just to copy stuff into notebooks? Was that somehow considered better or more efficient by everyone?
At the end of the day, a bad teacher is a bad teacher, regardless of which curriculum or teaching method they’re following.

If you ask me, the recent educational reforms have actually managed to weed out some of the nonsense people used to push, though I definitely think there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Now, my daughter hasn't really had any issues—she doesn't complain about anything—but we did deal with a bit of chaos regarding her math teacher swaps once or twice. Luckily, I was able to smooth things over without much trouble. That said, at her age, she really ought to be putting in five times the effort I am! Besides, I know plenty of other parents who vent constantly about teachers I’ve never even heard of. So... I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

Nowadays, teachers can barely bother with the old-school methods because our kids are basically illiterate. They struggle with basic reading and writing. Making them transcribe things from a board is a huge uphill battle.

Back in the era of overhead projectors, I don't recall it being this bad. It's obvious people actually learned how to learn back then.

Michelle Nelson4 said:And what happened back when they were all stuck using those old mimeograph machines, layering sheet after sheet of stencil paper just to copy stuff into notebooks? Was that somehow considered better or more efficient by everyone?
At the end of the day, a bad teacher is a bad teacher, regardless of which curriculum or teaching method they’re following.

If you ask me, the recent educational reforms have actually managed to weed out some of the nonsense people used to push, though I definitely think there's still plenty of room for improvement.

Now, my daughter hasn't really had any issues—she doesn't complain about anything—but we did deal with a bit of chaos regarding her math teacher swaps once or twice. Luckily, I was able to smooth things over without much trouble. That said, at her age, she really ought to be putting in five times the effort I am! Besides, I know plenty of other parents who vent constantly about teachers I’ve never even heard of. So... I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

Transparencies have been replaced by PowerPoints🧐

There is a whole spectrum of ways to convey facts and motivate a student to learn, ranging from monotonous lecturing to hands-on, self-directed study.
I agree, a bad teacher is always going to be bad.

It's just that before, that bad teacher at least had to (by hand) prepare those transparencies once every twenty years, show up to class and actually engage—dictating, being involved, leaving some sort of trace that they actually did something...
Project-based collaborative learning (or whatever they call "constructivist pedagogy" in those textbooks) basically gives lazy professors a free pass. They don't need transparencies or PowerPoints anymore; they just need a textbook, a tablet, or a smartphone, and then they can just tell the kids to go research whatever Columbo or some other detective figure would have investigated—be it a concept or an entire lesson...
Someone has to supervise, stay open to questions and doubts, and provide guidance and encouragement. From what I know about group work (and how groups actually function), that is by no means an easy process—I'm speaking from my own experience leading various groups... But if you happen to be a subpar teacher by default, under this kind of pedagogy where everything rests on the student, it's incredibly easy to blame failure on a couple of kids with dyslexia, one kid with ADHD who hasn't been diagnosed, or just "class dynamics" and TikTok addiction. You can just hand out straight As to everyone so that Mrs. Smith doesn't show up at the school or, worse, file a complaint with the district. Then you publicly blame the Scandinavians, psychologists, local celebrities, or the internet, while secretly thanking God that you don't have to do anything—not even make a PowerPoint because you don't have a laptop, a smartboard, or a projector (for which you can just blame the principal or the school board). 🥳
And on top of being ungrateful toward those lazy kids, you turn around and go on strike for a raise because the reforms "brought on extra work." 🙏

Even though my daughter doesn't have any issues and never complains, there were a few chaotic situations during math substitutions, but luckily I handle them without a problem. That said, if she doesn't strive at least five times harder than I did at her age, that's on her. I also know other parents complain quite a bit about teachers whose names I haven't even heard of. So... it really depends on who's looking.

Back when it was all transparencies and dictation—and even now with PowerPoints—if a kid shows up to school, they can actually retain a lot. If the teacher provides the facts and you listen, it's easy to remember them.
I was that kind of student. Even if I missed class, I’d just grab my notebook and copy from someone else (pretty much anyone) because most teachers put the material together well. They’d dictate it, and even the laziest (or least prepared) teachers managed to get it down, so since we all compared notebooks, you could study from them for a test.
(Nowadays, it's more about independent study...)🙄)

Based on my own experience, I’ve spent years telling kids that if they just show up to class and pay attention, they can learn twice as much as anyone else—and if they happen to have an engaging teacher, they can probably master three times the material without ever having to crack a book at home.
But year after year, those kinds of teachers seem to be getting harder to find. There's so much extra research work involved now, plus there are more and more parents stepping in to play teacher at home, all while kids spend basically their entire afternoon trying to "decode" what the textbook was actually trying to say...
It really makes you wonder: why are kids even bothering to go to school anymore?
My daughter tells me she just goes to see her friends.😬

By the way, you made a great point about how a parent with a strong math background can easily fix whatever mess the school made of the lesson. That’s exactly where the inequality from this reform kicks in; access to real knowledge isn't being handed out equally to everyone... and if things keep moving in this direction, it could honestly get even worse.

Looking at how professors handle extra credit nowadays—where they actually hold you to a standard—compared to my school days where teachers would just have us students explain the material to our classmates during makeup exams, I’d say we’re definitely moving in the right direction.

I honestly don't see the connection between the current curriculum reforms and the shortage of math teachers. The only thing that really links them is the lack of actual reform, such as offering better salaries, optimizing class sizes, and stopping this push to force people through five-year degree programs just so they can teach basic fractions to ten-year-olds. Back in the day, thirty years ago, having ten years of experience was more than enough qualification for some ☕

We’re looking at a film where you can become a teacher in less than five years, and we aren't even going to touch that famous Master's degree nonsense.

The reason? It’s all about protecting the cash flow for those overpriced Teacher's Colleges. They can't afford to let their tuition revenue dip.

On paper, undergrads can teach if there isn't a Master's holder available, but since those guys are always in high demand, it's basically zero chance.

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Michelle Nelson4 said:Looking at how professors handle extra credit nowadays—where they actually hold you to a standard—compared to my school days where teachers would just have us students explain the material to our classmates during makeup exams, I’d say we’re definitely moving in the right direction.

I honestly don't see the connection between the current curriculum reforms and the shortage of math teachers. The only thing that really links them is the lack of actual reform, such as offering better salaries, optimizing class sizes, and stopping this push to force people through five-year degree programs just so they can teach basic fractions to ten-year-olds. Back in the day, thirty years ago, having ten years of experience was more than enough qualification for some ☕

You mentioned you had to explain math to your kid because the teacher was absent... well, other parents end up doing the teaching because teachers are constantly rotating, which messes with the teaching strategies and leaves kids needing extra help. Others have to step in because a professor doesn't grade homework, causing kids to lose their footing, or because the classroom has turned into a free-for-all where they just work in small groups and hope kids "independently explore" via the new standards.

Regardless of the reason, if the parent is the one doing the explaining, some kids have a safety net and others don't.
There were always parents who helped their kids, but back then, it was mostly limited to those stuck with a bad teacher. Now, the need has expanded because the reforms have essentially "narrowed the workspace" for the professionals.
Then there’s the group of parents who were super involved from day one—they encouraged their kids, studied alongside them, summarized the lessons, and quizzed them, regardless of how good the teacher was.
Under these new reforms, where teachers split the class into groups for self-directed learning, it's the parent who ends up re-explaining the colorful textbook at home and simplifying the concepts... which is supposed to be the teacher's job in the classroom.

By the way, at my old high school, there used to be mandatory tutoring for "struggling" students, and if you skipped, it counted as an unexcused absence. It was strictly for those who needed it, led by the teacher. Nowadays, from what I hear, you can't get an unexcused absence for skipping tutoring, and nobody calls out kids publicly for needing extra help, so you often see just one or two students show up from a whole group of six classes...
I don't see anything wrong with "stronger" students helping out the ones who are struggling. Aside from reinforcing what they already know, it builds camaraderie and improves social bonds. I’ve had great experiences with it, both as the student being helped and the one doing the teaching. 🤷
What would be ideal is for this to be the foundation for that "inquiry-based learning" and group work, but... for a teacher to pull that off, they first need to lecture the material, ensure everyone understands the facts, and *then* assign a small research project as a way to review or build upon the lesson.
But from what I hear from the kids, that’s not really how it works; usually, it's the exact opposite.

Actually, the kids tell me that math is still taught in class through traditional lectures and explanations. So, wherever there is an actual teacher present, it shouldn't be a problem (especially if it's the same teacher year after year). The real issue is the "online, do-it-yourself" culture, which is apparently a force of nature 🤣 🤔, involving not just the kids but parents and even neighbors too.

I have to respectfully disagree with everything here.
In the past, you’d frequently run into professors who just couldn't explain things clearly. That meant parents ended up doing the teaching themselves, shelling out money for private tutors, or simply telling their kids to deal with bad grades—or worse, just not caring at all.
Nowadays, though, there are recorded lectures from the FBI available for almost every subject. If a professor misses the mark, I can just jump online and watch a clear explanation for free.
Actually, I think that with all the modern oversight and the fact that parents aren't just acting like "obedient servants" anymore, we've seen an increase in teachers who actually do their jobs. You don't see as many of those old-school types acting like little gods, throwing keys at students' heads or strictly limiting them to a passing grade of 60%.

As for the idea that explaining things to others helps you learn—personally, I found it totally useless and incredibly frustrating. The only thing I ever walked away with was the realization that X was just being difficult, and that was it. I stepped away from that method as soon as I possibly could.

Regarding group projects, they rarely work the way they're intended to. Most teachers just don't have the time or the inclination to properly supervise groups, and besides, I've never really seen core curriculum covered through group work—it's usually just extra fluff. However, I do think individual research projects, like presentations or deep-dive assignments, are wonderful. They allow students to actually build useful skills rather than just memorizing and regurgitating facts.

If I had two kids going through the same school system—one before the reforms and one after—I could actually tell you if the teaching quality has dropped or if it’s just business as usual.
As it stands, I have no way of knowing if teachers were already just surfing the web for an hour while students taught themselves from a textbook, or if this "project-based learning" is a new trend they think is cool when, in reality, they used to actually lecture and explain things properly.

Scott Booth

Susan James said:You mentioned you had to explain math to your kid because the teacher was absent... well, other parents end up doing the teaching because teachers are constantly rotating, which messes with the teaching strategies and leaves kids needing extra help. Others have to step in because a professor doesn't grade homework, causing kids to lose their footing, or because the classroom has turned into a free-for-all where they just work in small groups and hope kids "independently explore" via the new standards.

Regardless of the reason, if the parent is the one doing the explaining, some kids have a safety net and others don't.
There were always parents who helped their kids, but back then, it was mostly limited to those stuck with a bad teacher. Now, the need has expanded because the reforms have essentially "narrowed the workspace" for the professionals.
Then there’s the group of parents who were super involved from day one—they encouraged their kids, studied alongside them, summarized the lessons, and quizzed them, regardless of how good the teacher was.
Under these new reforms, where teachers split the class into groups for self-directed learning, it's the parent who ends up re-explaining the colorful textbook at home and simplifying the concepts... which is supposed to be the teacher's job in the classroom.

By the way, at my old high school, there used to be mandatory tutoring for "struggling" students, and if you skipped, it counted as an unexcused absence. It was strictly for those who needed it, led by the teacher. Nowadays, from what I hear, you can't get an unexcused absence for skipping tutoring, and nobody calls out kids publicly for needing extra help, so you often see just one or two students show up from a whole group of six classes...
I don't see anything wrong with "stronger" students helping out the ones who are struggling. Aside from reinforcing what they already know, it builds camaraderie and improves social bonds. I’ve had great experiences with it, both as the student being helped and the one doing the teaching. 🤷
What would be ideal is for this to be the foundation for that "inquiry-based learning" and group work, but... for a teacher to pull that off, they first need to lecture the material, ensure everyone understands the facts, and *then* assign a small research project as a way to review or build upon the lesson.
But from what I hear from the kids, that’s not really how it works; usually, it's the exact opposite.

Actually, the kids tell me that math is still taught in class through traditional lectures and explanations. So, wherever there is an actual teacher present, it shouldn't be a problem (especially if it's the same teacher year after year). The real issue is the "online, do-it-yourself" culture, which is apparently a force of nature 🤣 🤔, involving not just the kids but parents and even neighbors too.

That’s really the core of the issue: we just don't have enough professors. There's a massive shortage, and to make matters worse, you have to wonder if some of them are even qualified for the roles they hold.

You can't expect any kind of meaningful reform to take hold without having high-quality professionals in place first. We're essentially spinning our wheels while our kids graduate more unprepared and less literate than ever. Isn't that just creating the perfect breeding ground for conspiracy theories and populist fringe parties?

If anyone in power in this country actually cared about fostering an independent-thinking citizenry, they would have made teaching a prestigious career path ages ago. It wouldn't be rocket science—just a decent, livable salary that reflects the importance of the job.

It doesn't even have to look like it does in Finland; just look at what they're doing over in Germany: https://www.nytimes.com/example-link-about-salaries
An elementary school teacher making $4,800 a month
A high school professor pulling in $6,000 a month

rowdypanther12 said:If I had two kids going through the same school system—one before the reforms and one after—I could actually tell you if the teaching quality has dropped or if it’s just business as usual.
As it stands, I have no way of knowing if teachers were already just surfing the web for an hour while students taught themselves from a textbook, or if this "project-based learning" is a new trend they think is cool when, in reality, they used to actually lecture and explain things properly.

It honestly baffles me that there are teachers out there who just hand out an assignment and then completely check out. Honestly, good for them if they managed to land a job at a school with parents like these.

Me? No. I have to provide hyper-detailed instructions. I basically have to end every single prompt with a bolded note saying they can contact me any time of the day or night if they’re confused or need help. The deadline has to be practically infinite, and I have to offer two separate windows for submission. Only if they fail to turn in anything whatsoever by the second deadline am I allowed to give them a failing grade. Oh, and I almost forgot—I also have to offer them the chance that if they submit by the first deadline, I’ll review it, suggest a grade, list what needs fixing for a better score, and then they have until the next deadline to fix it. Those who wait until the second deadline don't get that luxury.

And even after I go through all that ridiculousness, I'm still certain I won't escape the constant nagging from parents, homeroom teachers, principals, and the administration.

Unfortunately, most students are so lazy that even this level of hand-holding doesn't help them get decent grades. They act like such "know-it-alls," yet they message me constantly because they can't find anything on Google or don't know how to talk to anyone.

It really is terrible. In this age of the internet, it's insane how many kids genuinely don't know how to search for things or even use PowerPoint—even though they've been taking computer classes since elementary school.

you really hit the nail on the head there 🙏

You guys are talking about grades, but I’m actually referring to how we pass the entire learning process down to our kids