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The New Industrial Revolution: Are we actually ready for this?

Started by Nicholas Chavez70 · · 👁 12 views · 204 replies

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Participants Nicholas Chavez70northernsailor8Jessica Kelly4ruggedgardener2goldengull3Jack Johnson6nimblelynx7Sam MurphyMaria BoothDavid Price5Sarah James4Karen Doyle72Aaron Barrett79gentlesailor17Nicholas NguyenAmanda DiazRichard Wilson4briskskipper27briskdrifter3neonhound18placidrangerhollowtrucker77feralbadger2Jack Cook7 …
Harold Martin10 Harold Martin10 Active Member
82 messages
joined Nov 2015
#141 ·
nimbleharbor10 said:The logic holds up because there is a fundamental ceiling to what a single laborer, salesperson, or driver can accomplish. A human being can only produce a finite amount of work within a given timeframe, and that specific manual or interpersonal labor isn't something you can simply replicate with technology—at least, not until the moment you actually do, which effectively renders the human element obsolete anyway.

You actually need fewer designers nowadays. Honestly, you need far fewer workers than we see today because, by the very nature of the industry, a small handful of top-tier talent will inevitably capture 99% of the market share, leaving everyone else to fight over the scraps. It is exactly what we are seeing right now with the app development market.
The demand for engineers will continue to rise, and frankly, it always has, but the reality is that most of the population lacks both the capacity and the drive to pursue that kind of work. We see an endless influx of service workers and retail clerks, yet the actual technical expertise required to sustain a modern economy remains increasingly scarce because people simply aren't willing to put in the effort.
The chef you’re talking about is essentially a food designer, whereas the role of a server or a waiter is much more questionable. When I bought my last car online, the value added by the guy at the dealership—the one I eventually paid and took delivery from—was absolutely zero; he might as well have been a robot for all the good he did. It's a similar story with servers. Unless we are discussing highly specialized, high-end hospitality, a machine could easily step in and replace them without anyone noticing.

As much as you might believe that technical expertise and specialized skill sets are the ultimate keys to success in any industry, you are fundamentally mistaken if you think new job openings in any country will ever materialize in sufficient numbers to offset the ones being lost.
The trajectory of increasing automation points toward one inevitable outcome: escalating unemployment. Only a complete fool would swap out a hundred workers for a single robot that actually ends up costing more than the human staff it replaced. When you look at the math, replacing N number of jobs through automation won't actually result in cost savings equal to the wages of those N employees. Even if there are any savings at all, that surplus isn't going to be distributed among the remaining workforce; instead, it will be concentrated into the hands of a tiny, elite minority.

This relentless drive toward task automation is essentially driving a wedge into the very heart of our capitalist economy, leading us straight toward self-cannibalization. Unless we manage to engineer a solution that breaks free from this rigid neoliberal mindset—something like a guaranteed universal basic income—we are looking at a predictable descent into widespread poverty, followed inevitably by civil unrest and violent revolutions.

Look, take Sweden for example—they have about 70% of their workforce in service roles now. I'd bet anything that the economic structure looked completely different fifty years ago, yet I don't see any bloody revolutions or massive civil unrest happening there.

I think you might be missing the bigger picture of how economics actually works. If those few remaining employees end up with more disposable income, they'll be able to afford more services and luxuries, which in turn creates even more new jobs.

By your logic, developed nations should already be drowning in high unemployment, but in reality, it's quite the opposite.
Amanda Diaz Amanda Diaz Active Member
74 messages
joined Jan 2009
#142 ·
northernsailor8 said:This isn't really a question of whether copyright should exist, but rather its scope. I think most people would agree that limiting reproduction has become nearly impossible, but that's more a matter of distribution models, accessibility, and middlemen than the creators themselves.

In fact, it seems many people are actually willing to pay for high-quality service and bonus content if there are minimal intermediaries, the content is easy to find in one place, and the price is reasonable.

However, that mostly applies to the entertainment industry. Intellectual work that has practical utility—meaning its application creates tangible value—is a different story altogether. In those cases, the work becomes an intellectual tool in production, much like manual labor, machinery, or other physical assets. We are talking about the foundations of an economic system here. There could be a drastic decline if we rely solely on enthusiasts who prioritize the "public good."

I think you might be off by a century or two. Nowadays, you train a worker in a very short timeframe, and new technology is implemented within a few years. Welcome to the 21st century and our era of global knowledge and communication. 😉

😁

Do you realize you're basically tripping over your own feet with that response? You're suggesting we should have trained workers *before* the technology even existed...
placidranger placidranger Regular
339 messages
joined Sep 2004
#143 ·
Jerry Turner7 said:Honestly, I think your perspective is a little warped here—you're looking at innovation like it's some effortless thing that just falls into your lap, like "oh, innovation is easy, I'll just dream something up whenever."
But there's this fundamental principle—call it rocket science if you want—which is basically the reality of copying... once you finally pull off an innovation that feels like a godsend, you gain this huge window of opportunity before anyone can scan your product and churn out a cheap knockoff.🤷

Developing a product is a bloodbath—it takes forever, costs a fortune, and you have to test every single damn thing... whereas copying? That's nothing. It's a total joke.

And I really don't get why people get so hung up on the idea that we should just scrap all patents and copyrights. Is it Mercedes' fault that your old Lancia doesn't have a decent engine? Of course not. It's the Lancia's fault.
Just put in the work, spend the time and the cash, and build your own stuff. Don't waste your breath worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Fine, let's be reasonable. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Sometimes innovations are just minor tweaks to an existing design, and other times they are multi-billion dollar endeavors. It’s the same deal with copying—sometimes you have to build an entire new factory from scratch with specialized manufacturing processes and hunt down rare experts just to replicate a competitor, while other times, all you need is a stolen CAD file. It all depends on the sector, the sophistication of the tools, the science involved, and how many people actually hold the necessary expertise...

I honestly don't get why people obsess over the idea of abolishing all patents and copyrights. Is Ford to blame because your Chevy doesn't have an equally good engine? No. It's the Chevy's fault.
Put in the work, spend the money, and develop your own stuff. Don't lose sleep over what others are doing.

If 3D printing continues its current trajectory—becoming cheaper, more precise, and capable of handling diverse materials—the entire concept of intellectual property and patent-based business models will face a reckoning. We'll see a repeat of what's currently happening with music and video, but applied to physical goods. Basically, big corporations will fail in their attempts to protect profits through sheer legal force, eventually being forced to pivot and accept the new tech.

At the same time, just as YouTube clips and indie music are being created today, we'll see public blueprints for "things" and machines that bypass patents entirely. That’s what will actually trigger the next industrial revolution.

What we really need is to let kids play around and upload their creations online, allowing them to participate in a global ecosystem of innovation and iteration.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#144 ·
goldengull3 said:And once again, you aren't stopping anyone from setting their own terms within their own company. You sound just like those Linux enthusiasts on tech forums who spend more time weeping over conspiracy theories than actually addressing the market reality: "Look, I offer this, Microsoft offers that, Apple does this, and the consumer can decide which one fits their needs."

Sure, they can turn a profit by exploiting a patent. They get twenty years of exclusivity, and after that, everyone is free to use it. Why should you be allowed to profit off someone else's invention?

I don't doubt WIPO will find its footing once 3D printing goes mainstream; they’ll have to find ways to protect innovation eventually.

African nations can either develop their own technology or simply pay for licenses; even the South saw steady development through licensing deals with companies like Ford. If you didn't invent it, it isn't yours.

By all means, feel free to voice your opinion to the US Congress tomorrow and demand your representatives defend your stance at the EU and the UN. Once the most developed nations decide to align with your view, there won't be any trouble getting WIPO and the rest of the crew to change the rules. Until then, we operate under the current ones. And regarding 3D printing, returning to the point, it will inevitably introduce new regulations—simply because inventors tend to be quite protective of their work.

It doesn't stop them from making it available to everyone, does it? It’s quite simple, really. Much like how you have the right to develop your own word processor, release it for free, and simply watch people choose to use your software instead of Microsoft's.

As for copyright? I’m a firm believer that it's just selling smoke. Where would humanity be today if the inventors of the wheel or fire thought like that? If they had said, "I invented the wheel and it belongs to me; nobody touches the wheel or the fire without paying me," what then? Would they have offered animal skins or a share of the hunt as payment? And then sent two thugs with clubs to enforce their "copyright" on fire and wheels.
Of course, they didn't work like that, yet we "modern" people call them Neanderthals.
Frank Grant6 Frank Grant6 Member
22 messages
joined Jun 2009
#145 ·
Some people are out here trying to force-feed these 3D printers to everyone like they’re some kind of magic, all-powerful miracle machines...

But let's get real: for the average person, what are they actually spitting out? A few plastic trinkets and cheap keychains..

People just don't get it. Everything has its limits. These things aren't omnipotent. And frankly, people need more than just a limited run of identical little plastic junk...

Industrial manufacturing is an entirely different beast altogether. It plays by a completely different set of rules.

Look, folks, the real goal should be building a society that’s actually self-sufficient and economically sustainable.

We need to get that economic engine turning—where we're trading with one another, keeping production moving across the country, and circulating both profit and consumption... basically, we need to take control of our own wheel of fortune.

It's easy enough to talk about "imagination" and geek out over tech-bro fantasies.

But like my old man used to say... "Alright then, let that printer print me a left fork for my Mazda..."

We’re getting to a point where even the engineers at Toyota won't bother making certain parts anymore, because why would they when some guy with a glorified hot glue gun can try to do it?

😬
briskdrifter3 briskdrifter3 Active Member
63 messages
joined Oct 2012
#146 ·
Frank Grant6 said:Some people are out here trying to force-feed these 3D printers to everyone like they’re some kind of magic, all-powerful miracle machines...

But let's get real: for the average person, what are they actually spitting out? A few plastic trinkets and cheap keychains..

People just don't get it. Everything has its limits. These things aren't omnipotent. And frankly, people need more than just a limited run of identical little plastic junk...

Industrial manufacturing is an entirely different beast altogether. It plays by a completely different set of rules.

Look, folks, the real goal should be building a society that’s actually self-sufficient and economically sustainable.

We need to get that economic engine turning—where we're trading with one another, keeping production moving across the country, and circulating both profit and consumption... basically, we need to take control of our own wheel of fortune.

It's easy enough to talk about "imagination" and geek out over tech-bro fantasies.

But like my old man used to say... "Alright then, let that printer print me a left fork for my Mazda..."

We’re getting to a point where even the engineers at Toyota won't bother making certain parts anymore, because why would they when some guy with a glorified hot glue gun can try to do it?

😬

Actually, a modern 3D printer could quite handily print a left fork for a Ford—and you could even do it in titanium if you felt like it.
Between your old man and yourself, neither of you seems to have a clue what's actually happening... 🙂
Harold Martin10 Harold Martin10 Active Member
82 messages
joined Nov 2015
#147 ·
CrniloOdSipe said:The guy in the video—the one who laid out his theories in his book, claiming "robots will steal your jobs, but that’s actually a good thing"—argues that technological progress is essentially just funneling everything into IT while systematically wiping out almost every other sector. He’s basically challenging the standard economic theory that new situations inevitably create new roles. Apparently, so far, none of the "mainstream" economists have been able to give him a solid rebuttal. Not just empty buzzwords, but a real, concrete counter-argument.

It doesn't necessarily mean we're seeing an explosion of *brand new professions*, though—it might just be that certain existing roles expand because higher production levels require more people, even if the labor per unit drops.

Think about it: how many people were eating out regularly a century ago compared to today? Or look at personal trainers—how many people could afford or access one back then versus now?

Besides, if you look at the data, the unemployment rate in the US in 2007 was pretty much identical to what it was in 1927. A massive amount of jobs simply vanished in that hundred-year gap.
David Price5 David Price5 Regular
435 messages
joined Jul 2012
#148 ·
briskdrifter3 said:Actually, a modern 3D printer could quite handily print a left fork for a Ford—and you could even do it in titanium if you felt like it.
Between your old man and yourself, neither of you seems to have a clue what's actually happening... 🙂

And there's more

Jay Leno’s 3D Printer Replaces Rusty Old Parts
Or something along those lines
placidranger placidranger Regular
339 messages
joined Sep 2004
#149 ·
Check this out: www.localmotors.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCRuwtE_n0

Collaborative design and engineering—all built locally.

What’s the deal with US laws regarding DIY car manufacturing?
Jack Johnson6 Jack Johnson6 Member
31 messages
joined Nov 2015
#150 ·
northernsailor8 said:It seems to me you are discussing things you don't really understand. In just 25 years, industrial civilization turned China from a nation of starving peasants into a highly industrialized economic powerhouse where unemployment is around 5% and average wages exceed $400. It became the world's largest exporter and a major importer of oil and cars, all while domestic consumption and standards of living are surging. Today, there is a smaller percentage of hungry, sick, and extremely poor people in the world than ever before in history.

Sure, we are still quite dependent on fossil fuels, but that is just one factor among thousands regarding technological development. Being reliant on oil doesn't mean that computing, healthcare, telecommunications, and other fields haven't advanced, fundamentally changing our way of life in a single generation.

Speaking of oil, let's just say Germany now gets over 25% of its energy from alternative sources, with more coming from nuclear power. Consider that China invests tens of billions of dollars annually into solar energy research, or that there are plans to build more nuclear plants globally now than ever before in history, or that the two largest dams ever were built in the last decade.

Ultimately, there are technologies—some already developed and others in the works (especially promising are genetic experiments with bacteria and algae producing electricity and biofuel)—that could completely eliminate our reliance on oil, though they aren't profitable for anyone just yet. If the demand arises, significant development would happen relatively quickly, much like what we see with the advancement of solar cells and the trade friction between the US and China over them.

The world is moving forward, faster than before. Those who fail to see that perhaps just don't understand it and are simply afraid of progress.


If science actually moved as fast as people claim, access to food, transport, housing, heating, healthcare, and education would be significantly broader than it used to be. In developed nations, that isn't the case. The average American, German, or Japanese citizen had access to most of those things at a similar or even better level thirty years ago. They just didn't have smartphones, Facebook, or free adult content back then.

China simply joined the industrial age; it's entirely possible some countries will eventually move away from it.
Nicholas Chavez70 Nicholas Chavez70 Active MemberOP
72 messages
joined Jan 2008
#151 ·
goldengull3 said:The reality is that you can manufacture firearms quite reliably using nothing more than an old-school lathe. An AK is 1947 technology, anyway, and frankly, it’s often easier to just acquire one through established global channels than to attempt manufacturing it from scratch. You head down to somewhere like Somalia, buy what you need, and have it shipped to you by sea if you feel like it.

A globalized world offers plenty of advantages to criminals beyond just the internet. We don't even need 3D printing for that. There is simply no such thing as progress without its inevitable dark side.

Why on earth would anyone bother struggling with a drill when they can just manufacture weapons within the very country they intend to terrorize??? 😁 😁 It makes me wonder if explosives can be printed as well... If we can print plastics, then perhaps plastic explosives are on the horizon too... Now that would truly be the tipping point...
Jerry Turner7 Jerry Turner7 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jan 2014
#152 ·
Nicholas Chavez70 said:Why on earth would anyone bother struggling with a drill when they can just manufacture weapons within the very country they intend to terrorize??? 😁 😁 It makes me wonder if explosives can be printed as well... If we can print plastics, then perhaps plastic explosives are on the horizon too... Now that would truly be the tipping point...

🤣

Just because something is labeled "plastic" doesn't mean it's made of PVC, PET, or any of that stuff you find in soda bottles or grocery bags. The word actually comes from Latin—it basically just means a material that can be molded into different shapes. So, that explosive being discussed has zero connection to common household plastics; it’s just called "plastic" because of its malleability.😬
Nicholas Chavez70 Nicholas Chavez70 Active MemberOP
72 messages
joined Jan 2008
#153 ·
Jerry Turner7 said:🤣

Just because something is labeled "plastic" doesn't mean it's made of PVC, PET, or any of that stuff you find in soda bottles or grocery bags. The word actually comes from Latin—it basically just means a material that can be molded into different shapes. So, that explosive being discussed has zero connection to common household plastics; it’s just called "plastic" because of its malleability.😬

I suppose I should take the criticism... up until this point, I was under the impression that C-4 actually contained various types of plastic resins within its composition... 🙂
frozenranger52 frozenranger52 Member
40 messages
joined Dec 2012
#154 ·
nimblelynx7 said:This is clearly the future, and we are absolutely not ready for it.

That said, I don't think it’ll happen overnight. The tech is still in its infancy and hasn't been properly vetted yet.
In the end, it’ll just be another scheme to line the pockets of a select few. They'll "produce" goods even cheaper than Chinese people can, raking in massive profits while leaving X times fewer workers with jobs.
Are they going to ship 3D printers to African Americans to solve world hunger? I highly doubt it.

Maybe in 100 or 200 years, it’ll become cheap enough for every household to own one. Until then, nothing changes—except a handful of people getting richer while the workforce shrinks even further.

A hundred or two hundred years? Honestly, just look up what the early computer pioneers were predicting regarding computers, television, or even telephones about a century ago. Based on their timelines, we wouldn't even have reached the level of a WWII-era radio by now...
quietowl152 quietowl152 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jan 2012
#155 ·
Nicholas Chavez70 said:Why on earth would anyone bother struggling with a drill when they can just manufacture weapons within the very country they intend to terrorize??? 😁 😁 It makes me wonder if explosives can be printed as well... If we can print plastics, then perhaps plastic explosives are on the horizon too... Now that would truly be the tipping point...

There’s actually a company here in the States already working on this. Right now, they're printing magazine bodies and trying to nail the receiver for an AR-15. The receiver is the part that takes all the stress, so once they reinforce that, the rest is basically child's play. Currently, their big challenge is seeing if they can fire a few hundred rounds through a printed receiver before it cracks under pressure. But soon enough, whole firearms will be coming off printers. It’s just a matter of time. Once that happens, gun control laws everywhere in the world will become nothing more than a memory.
Jerry Turner7 Jerry Turner7 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jan 2014
#156 ·
Nicholas Chavez70 said:I suppose I should take the criticism... up until this point, I was under the impression that C-4 actually contained various types of plastic resins within its composition... 🙂

Look, whether you're being serious or just messing around, trying to 3D print that stuff makes zero sense—under no circumstances. A printer is meant for making specific models or building structures; if you just need a mass of material with no defined shape, you just mix it in a pot. You don't need a high-tech 3D printer for that. It’s the exact same logic with 2D printing—if you want a smudge on a piece of paper, you just pour ink on it. You don't need fancy technology to make a mess.😁
nimbleharbor10 nimbleharbor10 Active Member
79 messages
joined Nov 2024
#157 ·
Harold Martin10 said:Look, take Sweden for example—they have about 70% of their workforce in service roles now. I'd bet anything that the economic structure looked completely different fifty years ago, yet I don't see any bloody revolutions or massive civil unrest happening there.

I think you might be missing the bigger picture of how economics actually works. If those few remaining employees end up with more disposable income, they'll be able to afford more services and luxuries, which in turn creates even more new jobs.

By your logic, developed nations should already be drowning in high unemployment, but in reality, it's quite the opposite.

Sweden essentially operates on a universal basic income model. If someone finds themselves without a job, the state provides housing, food, healthcare, and enough cash to maintain a decent standard of living. Without those safety nets in place, you'd be seeing blood in the streets.

Harold Martin10 said:Look, take Sweden for example—they have about 70% of their workforce in service roles now. I'd bet anything that the economic structure looked completely different fifty years ago, yet I don't see any bloody revolutions or massive civil unrest happening there.

I think you might be missing the bigger picture of how economics actually works. If those few remaining employees end up with more disposable income, they'll be able to afford more services and luxuries, which in turn creates even more new jobs.

By your logic, developed nations should already be drowning in high unemployment, but in reality, it's quite the opposite.

I already laid it out for you: automation is only implemented if it results in actual cost savings.
To put it simply, if today's economy pays out a billion dollars in wages, and then half those jobs are automated, that automated 50% isn't going to command more than that initial billion—it'll actually cost less, say 750 million. Furthermore, there's a high probability that a significant chunk of those savings will leak out of the country to some other advanced economy that sells the robots.

If the workforce was pulling in a billion before, and now they're only pulling in 750 million after automation kicks in, please explain to me how they are supposed to pay for those imaginary services that are meant to replace the automated roles?

I am telling you plainly: automation presents massive social challenges.
Jack Smith5 Jack Smith5 Active Member
87 messages
joined Jan 2011
#158 ·
Social challenges?
I’d call them educational ones. Honestly, if you don't adapt to this new era, you’re going to find yourself living on the fringes of society or flirting with the law.
The reality is pretty grim: if you can't find a way to make a legitimate living, you'll end up looking toward crime or those shady gray-market hustles just to keep the lights on.

To me, adaptation means investing in yourself—specifically in your own knowledge and skill set.

I sometimes dream of a world where mindless, soul-crushing grunt work is completely eradicated so no human being ever has to endure it again. But, of course, that would require a massive overhaul of our entire social value system. We'd basically need to strip manufacturing away from massive corporations and move it back into the hands of everyday citizens. Imagine being able to just hit "print" on a 3D printer whenever you need some little gadget or part.
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#159 ·
Jerry Clark72 said:I honestly don't see how 3D printers could ever be a threat to the US economy.

How many people in America actually work in industries that 3D printing would even touch? I can't think of a single one right now.

On the flip side, my buddy Starks makes a solid point. These printers might actually give us a leg up by making small-scale manufacturing easier than it's ever been.

Besides, if we're talking about what really matters for the future of the US, it’s food prices. Prices are climbing now, and they're going to keep climbing until farming becomes a massive money-maker again.

For instance, imagine a scenario where corn hits $0.67 per pound. With just five acres, you'd be pulling in a salary equivalent to what I make now—and I'm a computer engineer at a top-tier tech firm using all those cutting-edge technologies that goldengull3 gets so hyped about.

Food prices are rising, and so is the demand for traditional, wholesome nutrition... on top of that, organic certification standards are going to get much stricter... for example, poultry and swine producers might soon be required to source their feed from their own dedicated farms...

Then there's the growing issue of soil quality...

Technology isn't really the issue when it comes to employment; the real issue lies in the organization of our socio-economic structures... in Germany, they have specific roles for screwing a lightbulb in clockwise versus counter-clockwise... okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but you get my drift.

We wouldn't even have full employment if we decided to revert back to Stone Age methods...😁
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#160 ·
BlackInk said:That guy in the video—the one who laid out his whole theory in his book, claiming that while robots might snatch your paycheck, it’s actually for the best—is basically arguing that technological progress is going to funnel everything into IT roles while systematically wiping out almost everything else. He’s essentially dismissing the standard economic theory that new situations inevitably spawn new types of jobs. Apparently, not a single "mainstream" economist has been able to hit him with a legitimate counter-argument yet; I mean, none of those empty, recycled phrases, but actual, concrete logic.

Even Michio Kaka, who arguably stands as one of the most significant authorities on robotics, doesn't feel comfortable making sweeping predictions the way some of you folks on this forum do...

He did, however, suggest that certain blue-collar sectors might actually end up seeing some benefits...

At its core, technological advancement could simply serve to increase the likelihood of individual self-sufficiency...

Master wrote an excellent post regarding those monopolistic elites...
In my view, those kinds of societal power dynamics described in that post have a far greater impact on employment rates than the technology itself ever will.

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