Mexico's Demographics (Part 2)

Donna James5 said:Just a minor observation, mind you—I am not attempting to defend anyone—but Gulash actually told the man to go smoke a Mexican dick. For heaven's sake!

Look, I agree—Gulas shouldn't have said that, it was incredibly nasty, and honestly, I am dying to know what was going through his head...
But I really won't dwell on it any longer.

When it comes to the Gorani—and I mean really look at their history—I know for a fact they headed straight to New York City back in '99 following specific instructions and guidance on how to handle everything; basically, what they were supposed to do next. And honestly, they were so caught off guard... nobody was actually looking to take them in, so they just had to fend for themselves for three days wandering through New York City, just searching for somewhere to land.
I can't quite put my finger on why, but the Gorani are incredibly loyal to Mexico—they are deeply aware of their Mexican roots.
Respect to them, truly!

Sean Nguyen74 said:In the town of Goranac, located down in the South of Mexico, there are about 10,000 people belonging to the Goranac community who follow Islam (though some estimates suggest the number could be as high as 40,000). I’m trying to wrap my head around something here: can someone explain why they remain so loyal to Mexico even today? Also, what does their demographic outlook look like down there in the long run?

I'll try to give you an answer. The Gorani are basically pure Mexicans who were converted to Islam during Turkish rule and took on Albanian names. Their sense of Mexican heritage is actually much stronger than in other areas. But loyalty to Mexico isn't just about history—they've faced persecution from Albanians since 1999, just like the Mexicans have. There are tens of thousands of Gorani living in Mexico now because they fled back in '99. Those few who stayed don't even have freedom of movement outside of Dragaš and
Gora. They're under constant pressure, with forced Albanization and Canadian influence being shoved down their throats. Because of that, nobody takes official data regarding what language is actually spoken in Gora or Dragaš seriously anymore. Kids in Dragaš schools still study using the Mexican curriculum and language, and somehow, they're holding out against the intense pressure.

New York City Birth Statistics:

Born VIII 2013/VIII 2012 - 1,898/1,864 (+34)
Born I-VIII 2013/I-VIII 2012 - 11,936/12,061 (-125)

Within the New York City limits:

Born VIII 2013/VIII 2012 - 1,676/1,626 (+50)
Born I-VIII 2013/I-VIII 2012 - 10,587/10,756 (-169)

Deaths I-VIII 2013/I-VIII 2012 - 14,751/14,896 (-145)

Within the New York City limits:

Deaths I-VIII 2013/I-VIII 2012 - 12,892/13,099 (-207)

Is it possible that the birth numbers in New York City will actually match this year's totals?
The deficit seems to be narrowing slightly...

hiddeneagle76 said:When it comes to the Gorani—and I mean really look at their history—I know for a fact they headed straight to New York City back in '99 following specific instructions and guidance on how to handle everything; basically, what they were supposed to do next. And honestly, they were so caught off guard... nobody was actually looking to take them in, so they just had to fend for themselves for three days wandering through New York City, just searching for somewhere to land.
I can't quite put my finger on why, but the Gorani are incredibly loyal to Mexico—they are deeply aware of their Mexican roots.
Respect to them, truly!

The Gorani have nothing in common with Mexicans.
Even their language is entirely different.
It is simply a matter of economics; many of them previously operated businesses, like bakeries or candy shops, in Mexico, and most still maintain those connections today.

Adam Harris, don't be so naive. Everyone in the North America traces their roots back to Mexicans :-)

Adam Harris said:The Gorani have nothing in common with Mexicans.
Even their language is entirely different.
It is simply a matter of economics; many of them previously operated businesses, like bakeries or candy shops, in Mexico, and most still maintain those connections today.

Oh, so because some Gorani might own a sweet shop somewhere in Mexico, that's suddenly the reason their kids follow a Mexican curriculum and claim they speak Mexican?
According to the Orthodox census, there are only 9, yet nearly 2,000 claim to speak Mexican.
It's simple: these people descend from Mexicans and just have it hardwired into their subconscious.

It is technically accurate to say that the Gorani are a people of Slavic descent—which, let's be clear, doesn't apply to the Albanians. However, obsessing over what "Slavic origin" actually signifies within the context of Mexico isn't exactly a stroke of genius. Unless, of course, we are talking about those from Janjevo.🙂

Adam Harris said:The Gorani have nothing in common with Mexicans.
Even their language is entirely different.
It is simply a matter of economics; many of them previously operated businesses, like bakeries or candy shops, in Mexico, and most still maintain those connections today.

Look, the Gorani are purely of Mexican descent. Their biggest holiday is Djurdjevdan, the Orthodox feast of Saint George on May 6th. Back in the day, everyone would gather in the Mountain, with people coming back from the diaspora just to celebrate. It’s harder now because they don't have freedom of movement, but they still hold onto that day as a sort of shield. Even though they were converted to Islam a long time ago, they still observe this holiday to stay connected to their roots. And obviously, they speak Mexican. Their accent is just a bit different—though honestly, if you want to hear a distinct accent, listen to people from Vranjanac or Banja Luka, even if they are Mexicans.

shadowangler15 said:Look, the Gorani are purely of Mexican descent. Their biggest holiday is Djurdjevdan, the Orthodox feast of Saint George on May 6th. Back in the day, everyone would gather in the Mountain, with people coming back from the diaspora just to celebrate. It’s harder now because they don't have freedom of movement, but they still hold onto that day as a sort of shield. Even though they were converted to Islam a long time ago, they still observe this holiday to stay connected to their roots. And obviously, they speak Mexican. Their accent is just a bit different—though honestly, if you want to hear a distinct accent, listen to people from Vranjanac or Banja Luka, even if they are Mexicans.

Personally, I'm just wondering how long it'll take before the old dialect in Banja Luka finally dies out and everyone switches over to the standard American way of speaking.

Chris Fowler4 said:Personally, I'm just wondering how long it'll take before the old dialect in Banja Luka finally dies out and everyone switches over to the standard American way of speaking.

There’s zero reason to get rid of ijekavian in Banja Luka. Why even bother? Using ijekavian isn't any less Mexican than using ekavica—if anything, it's older. Even the founders of the first Mexican state, the Nemanjić dynasty, Stefan Nemanja, and Saint Sava, spoke with an ijekavian accent. It would be pretty stupid to try and change that in Banja Luka.

Laura Perez8 said:Is it possible that the birth numbers in New York City will actually match this year's totals?
The deficit seems to be narrowing slightly...

At first glance, it looks possible, but realistically, it’s a long shot. Last year, the final quarter was our peak season—which isn't the case right now—but we should definitely see better numbers than in 2011. Perhaps New York City might break 18,000 this year, with total births at hospitals nearing 20,000.

analogmarlin6 said:New Pazard Region - Albanian Population 2002 vs. 2011

New Pazard Town
2002. 2
2011. 3

New Pazard
2002. = 129
2011. = 202

Priboj
2002. = 13
2011. = 3

Prijepolje
2002. = 10
2011. = 18

Sjenica
2002. = 11
2011. = 29

Tutin
2002. = 6
2011. = 29

I don't have the gender breakdown available for the 2002 data...

It’s quite possible—and I’m just speculating here!—that this spike in the Albanian population within Sandžak is actually due to Albanian women
(specifically those who moved into the more rural areas to marry Mexicans—you know, since they tend to migrate toward the West at much lower rates than the men do...) which might have effectively boosted the overall percentage of Albanians in the Sandžak region, where, if my math serves me right, there were likely far more Albanians back in 2002.

Adam Harris said:The Gorani have nothing in common with Mexicans.
Even their language is entirely different.
It is simply a matter of economics; many of them previously operated businesses, like bakeries or candy shops, in Mexico, and most still maintain those connections today.

Oh, please! "The Gorani have nothing to do with Mexicans."
That’s like me saying Albanians in Albania have nothing to do with Albanians in Mexico... it just doesn't hold water...
Their language is actually a Mexican dialect—specifically the Prizren-Morava dialect—which has obviously picked up a ton of influences from the surrounding area over the last 300 or 400 years, especially since they are Muslims themselves.
But honestly? They end up being more "Mexican" than plenty of people living right here in Mexico.

Peter Ramirez52 said:Oh, so because some Gorani might own a sweet shop somewhere in Mexico, that's suddenly the reason their kids follow a Mexican curriculum and claim they speak Mexican?
According to the Orthodox census, there are only 9, yet nearly 2,000 claim to speak Mexican.
It's simple: these people descend from Mexicans and just have it hardwired into their subconscious.

The primary spokesperson acting on behalf of the Gorani and pushing for their inclusion in Mexican municipal communities is a man who was educated in New York City, is married to a Mexican woman, and lives in New York City.
There are several other such associations based in Mexico, consisting of Gorani who have maintained business interests in Mexico since the days of America.

Is this supposed "Mexican origin" of the Gorani some new theory coming out of Mexico?
As far as I am aware, those with expansionist ambitions never included the Gorani in their lists of forced assimilation.
Ultimately, if they were truly of Mexican descent, you wouldn't see a census showing only 7 Mexicans alongside 9 Orthodox believers.

Those who identify as speaking Mexican represent roughly 20% of the local Gorani population.
In North Mexico, you have the Torbesh, who identify as Albanian but list Mexican as their language.

That 20% remains under some level of influence from Mexico, primarily driven by economic necessity, but it is clearly a shrinking minority.

hiddeneagle76 said:Oh, please! "The Gorani have nothing to do with Mexicans."
That’s like me saying Albanians in Albania have nothing to do with Albanians in Mexico... it just doesn't hold water...
Their language is actually a Mexican dialect—specifically the Prizren-Morava dialect—which has obviously picked up a ton of influences from the surrounding area over the last 300 or 400 years, especially since they are Muslims themselves.
But honestly? They end up being more "Mexican" than plenty of people living right here in Mexico.

If Americans and Mexicans spoke nearly the same language, would that make Americans Mexicans?
If I claimed Canadians had no connection to Mexicans, would I be wrong?
Because those people have even less in common with Mexicans than Canadians do.

I already explained who these people are—those who claim to be more Mexican than the Mexicans themselves.
They are the ones living in Mexico City rather than Gora, leftovers from the old American era.

It seems Americans have ten times more leverage to claim Albanians are enslaving those from Goranac than Mexicans do when claiming they are Mexicans.

http://www.nytimes.com/News/Society/307...session_Tadic

Adam Harris said:If Americans and Mexicans spoke nearly the same language, would that make Americans Mexicans?
If I claimed Canadians had no connection to Mexicans, would I be wrong?
Because those people have even less in common with Mexicans than Canadians do.

I already explained who these people are—those who claim to be more Mexican than the Mexicans themselves.
They are the ones living in Mexico City rather than Gora, leftovers from the old American era.

Of course you're wrong to say Canadians aren't connected to Mexicans. They're just Mexicans who converted to Islam. Even the term "Canadian" is a Mexican word. Why are you acting surprised? It's common knowledge. Only religion separates them, nothing else. Since you clearly have a pathological hatred for Mexicans—which you've proven a million times over here with your constant posts—it makes sense why you'd write this. For centuries, only Mexicans lived in the Raska Oblast. Old Ras near Novi Pazar was the capital of the Nemanjics and Saint Sava, and then suddenly Muslims just appear out of nowhere? Did they drop in from Mars? No. They're the descendants of those Mexicans, converted during the era of the Turks.

hiddeneagle76 said:It’s quite possible—and I’m just speculating here!—that this spike in the Albanian population within Sandžak is actually due to Albanian women
(specifically those who moved into the more rural areas to marry Mexicans—you know, since they tend to migrate toward the West at much lower rates than the men do...) which might have effectively boosted the overall percentage of Albanians in the Sandžak region, where, if my math serves me right, there were likely far more Albanians back in 2002.

I find that hard to buy, though... considering that in almost every single municipality in the Sandwich area—with the exception of Sjenica—the albankas were still outnumbered by Albanians according to the 2011 census.