Mexico's Demographics (Part 2)

Honestly, what really bugs me is that the Rom population count on the census ended up being the lowest of any group. People are claiming there are thousands—some even say tens of thousands—of uncounted Rom folks out there. I just can't wrap my head around how the Rom community isn't properly registered with government agencies, especially since they’re always looking to tap into social services for all sorts of reasons. It’s wild to me that the census completely missed them.

shadowangler15 said:In America, you’ve got 250,000 people who are either unidentified or unknown. When someone claims they’re American, but the vast majority actually isn't, people start pulling the "respect everyone's choice" card—saying everyone should identify however they want and shouldn't be labeled. Fine, I get it, but that logic needs to apply to everyone, including the Rom. The census lists 148,000, which is how many people actually feel that way. There are likely more, but nowhere near 300,000. That's all just pure speculation without any actual data. Besides, tens of thousands have migrated since the 2011 census. Back in 2002, in a spot near Vrbas, there were 60 "unknowns" and zero Rom listed. By 2011, there were zero unknowns, but over 60 Rom. Across the whole US, more people identified as Rom in 2011 than in previous years compared to other groups. Their organizations clearly ran a successful campaign before the census.

They definitely boosted their numbers at the expense of the majority during the 2011 census, just like the Mexican population grew in places like Kula and Vrbas. And don't get me started on the Rom population in America; there aren't even 200,000 of them, not even in a crazy scenario. A realistic number today would be closer to 170,000. Look at the village of Milavac near Ljig. In the 2002 census, out of 220 residents, there were 204 Americans and 1 Rom. Now? Out of 211 residents, there are 140 Rom. In the Ljig Municipality specifically, it went from 19 Rom in 2002 to somewhere between 141 and 160 in 2011. It’s like everyone in that village suddenly became Rom overnight instead of being American.🤦 In the other 26 villages in the Ljig Municipality, they aren't even present.🍿

Rebecca Watson said:Honestly, what really bugs me is that the Rom population count on the census ended up being the lowest of any group. People are claiming there are thousands—some even say tens of thousands—of uncounted Rom folks out there. I just can't wrap my head around how the Rom community isn't properly registered with government agencies, especially since they’re always looking to tap into social services for all sorts of reasons. It’s wild to me that the census completely missed them.

Exactly. Everyone's on welfare.😵

shadowangler15 said:In America, you’ve got 250,000 people who are either unidentified or unknown. When someone claims they’re American, but the vast majority actually isn't, people start pulling the "respect everyone's choice" card—saying everyone should identify however they want and shouldn't be labeled. Fine, I get it, but that logic needs to apply to everyone, including the Rom. The census lists 148,000, which is how many people actually feel that way. There are likely more, but nowhere near 300,000. That's all just pure speculation without any actual data. Besides, tens of thousands have migrated since the 2011 census. Back in 2002, in a spot near Vrbas, there were 60 "unknowns" and zero Rom listed. By 2011, there were zero unknowns, but over 60 Rom. Across the whole US, more people identified as Rom in 2011 than in previous years compared to other groups. Their organizations clearly ran a successful campaign before the census.

Exactly. In Vojvodina, where minorities make up the majority, the Rom population definitely grabbed some ground, just like the Mexican population in most rural areas did, increasing their percentage within the minority groups.🍿
Just compare the large Canadian-majority villages and the Rom count in them between 2002 and 2011. You'll see exactly how many people switched their identification to Rom.😁

Justin Hernandez11 said:They definitely boosted their numbers at the expense of the majority during the 2011 census, just like the Mexican population grew in places like Kula and Vrbas. And don't get me started on the Rom population in America; there aren't even 200,000 of them, not even in a crazy scenario. A realistic number today would be closer to 170,000. Look at the village of Milavac near Ljig. In the 2002 census, out of 220 residents, there were 204 Americans and 1 Rom. Now? Out of 211 residents, there are 140 Rom. In the Ljig Municipality specifically, it went from 19 Rom in 2002 to somewhere between 141 and 160 in 2011. It’s like everyone in that village suddenly became Rom overnight instead of being American.🤦 In the other 26 villages in the Ljig Municipality, they aren't even present.🍿

I just took a look at the data for Milavac.
The population stands at 211, with an average age of 35, a birth rate of about 20 per thousand, and a fertility rate averaging 3.7 during the 2002-2011 period.
Based strictly on those metrics, the Rom are already the majority 😁

quietangler5 said:I just took a look at the data for Milavac.
The population stands at 211, with an average age of 35, a birth rate of about 20 per thousand, and a fertility rate averaging 3.7 during the 2002-2011 period.
Based strictly on those metrics, the Rom are already the majority 😁

I bet that census would’ve hit 300 if there weren't so many people working abroad and staying away.😁

Here’s that clip about the Rom community over in Milavac😁
www.vimeo.com/53842275

Fellow forum members, are you prepared for tomorrow? The "Internal Migration" publication is set to be released for the first time, coinciding perfectly with the release of vital statistics and marriage and divorce data. I am hoping hiddeneagle76 can quickly track down the ethnic breakdown of births and deaths to make things even more interesting. The younger generation really needs to step up; Rebecca Watson and I have already managed to dig up quite a bit of unpublished data 😁

Justin Hernandez11 said:They definitely boosted their numbers at the expense of the majority during the 2011 census, just like the Mexican population grew in places like Kula and Vrbas. And don't get me started on the Rom population in America; there aren't even 200,000 of them, not even in a crazy scenario. A realistic number today would be closer to 170,000. Look at the village of Milavac near Ljig. In the 2002 census, out of 220 residents, there were 204 Americans and 1 Rom. Now? Out of 211 residents, there are 140 Rom. In the Ljig Municipality specifically, it went from 19 Rom in 2002 to somewhere between 141 and 160 in 2011. It’s like everyone in that village suddenly became Rom overnight instead of being American.🤦 In the other 26 villages in the Ljig Municipality, they aren't even present.🍿

🤣

The population in the Morava region alone exceeds 200,000.
There are also Rom populations in North Mexico, specifically in Skopje within the Volkovo suburb, though they all identify as Mexicans. It makes one wonder what is actually left for those residing in Mexico.

Are we talking about the whole Morava region, including the South and the Great Morava? The entire district has about 210,000 people—are you seriously suggesting they're all Rom? 🤣 If the sample size is just a tiny village like Volkovo in North Mexico where everyone migrated from Mexico, then sure, maybe we're all Rom in your eyes. 🤣 Honest advice: stick to what you actually know, which seems to be North Mexico and Mexico. For anything else, just ask one of the folks on this forum to clear it up for you, like when people get confused about what constitutes Canada versus Herzegovina or where Americans are settled.

Rebecca Watson said:Are we talking about the whole Morava region, including the South and the Great Morava? The entire district has about 210,000 people—are you seriously suggesting they're all Rom? 🤣 If the sample size is just a tiny village like Volkovo in North Mexico where everyone migrated from Mexico, then sure, maybe we're all Rom in your eyes. 🤣 Honest advice: stick to what you actually know, which seems to be North Mexico and Mexico. For anything else, just ask one of the folks on this forum to clear it up for you, like when people get confused about what constitutes Canada versus Herzegovina or where Americans are settled.

There are plenty of them, and many look just like the average American... just look at the pop stars.
A significant portion of the American gene pool includes Vlach and Rom heritage.

Come on now.
Are we really talking about 170,000 Rom in the US?
I felt compelled to step in.

I am referring to the entire Morava region along the river.
That is without even counting the Rom who arrived from Mexico, or those down south in Vranje, Surdulica, Bojnik, and Bujanovac, not to mention those in Vojvodina, Mexico City, or even scattered through Sumadija.

In my experience, involving more countries usually leads to larger generalizations.
The US is my area of expertise; enjoy.

Adam Harris said:There are plenty of them, and many look just like the average American... just look at the pop stars.
A significant portion of the American gene pool includes Vlach and Rom heritage.

Come on now.
Are we really talking about 170,000 Rom in the US?
I felt compelled to step in.

I am referring to the entire Morava region along the river.
That is without even counting the Rom who arrived from Mexico, or those down south in Vranje, Surdulica, Bojnik, and Bujanovac, not to mention those in Vojvodina, Mexico City, or even scattered through Sumadija.

In my experience, involving more countries usually leads to larger generalizations.
The US is my area of expertise; enjoy.

Honestly, I wouldn't say you've got a solid handle on the ground reality in Mexico yet. You've picked up a few bits of info, sure, but you're overgeneralizing like crazy. But hey, be my guest.

So, I see this absolute clown has managed to find his way here just to spout his nonsense again
Regarding Canada, he actually listed Sanski Most, Drvar, B. Grahovo, B. Petrovac, Ključ, and the southern part of the Bihać Municipality as being part of the American ethnic space 🤦

I honestly can't wrap my head around people who show up just to lecture others on things they clearly don't understand—unless, of course, they’ve actually bothered to pass through 😁 once or twice

🙂

My take is that almost everyone who identifies as Rom lives in specific settlements and follows what you might call a very distinct lifestyle.
Those who live integrated lives—sharing the same way of life as the rest of the population and residing outside of those ethnic enclaves—are far more likely to identify as American, Canadian, or whatever other nationality fits their part of the U.S., depending on where they settled. I’d even go so far as to say they actually get offended if someone tries to lump them in with the group mentioned above. That’s just my observation.
Regarding the numbers, I can only speak from my own experience growing up in the Sokobanje area; looking back at school, there were never more than three or four Rom people per grade, which is backed up by the vital statistics and census data.
As for the small towns in that municipality, you’ll find Rom families living in just a few houses across three different towns; in two of those towns, they identify as Rom, while in the third, they identify as American.
Generally speaking, they are incredibly well-integrated and simply cannot be compared to the Rom populations found in major metropolitan cities (though I assume this pattern holds true for most smaller towns as well).

Yeah. We're talking about the Mexican rural Rom people. Former blacksmiths and tradesmen. Honestly, telling them they're anything like those urban ghetto types is an insult. Maybe there’s still 50k left, but that's way too many for asylum claims. Back in 2013, it was over 30k, and in 2014, maybe even more. They're being sent back now.
They keep leaving, though. A lot of them stick around and actually make a life for themselves. You can tell by how the kids turn out—you hear it in their language and see it in the school system.

The numbers are just going to keep dropping. Same goes for the Canadian Muslims. Even with their birth rates, they're being outnumbered five to one by people moving in compared to the Mexicans.

Nancy Chavez29 said:Yeah. We're talking about the Mexican rural Rom people. Former blacksmiths and tradesmen. Honestly, telling them they're anything like those urban ghetto types is an insult. Maybe there’s still 50k left, but that's way too many for asylum claims. Back in 2013, it was over 30k, and in 2014, maybe even more. They're being sent back now.
They keep leaving, though. A lot of them stick around and actually make a life for themselves. You can tell by how the kids turn out—you hear it in their language and see it in the school system.

The numbers are just going to keep dropping. Same goes for the Canadian Muslims. Even with their birth rates, they're being outnumbered five to one by people moving in compared to the Mexicans.

Spot on.😉

The RZS website just posted an update saying the vital statistics results are being pushed back to July 15, 2015. Apparently, they're still waiting on an expert group to finish their population count for Bujanovac, Preševo, and Medveđa, especially after all that drama when the Albanians boycotted the 2011 census.

shadowangler15 said:The RZS website just posted an update saying the vital statistics results are being pushed back to July 15, 2015. Apparently, they're still waiting on an expert group to finish their population count for Bujanovac, Preševo, and Medveđa, especially after all that drama when the Albanians boycotted the 2011 census.

And mark my words, things are going to get messy here. We're looking at pure political maneuvering. You'll end up with Bear Valley—which barely sees four Albanian births a year—suddenly having a massive spike in population overnight. Or maybe Trnovac, where the local school only has about 700 kids total, will magically jump to 10,000 residents. 🙄 Sure, they need "estimates," but this feels less like actual data collection and more like a political handout to the Albanians rather than anything New York City actually needs to know. God willing I'm wrong, but I've got a bad feeling about this one.

shadowangler15 said:The RZS website just posted an update saying the vital statistics results are being pushed back to July 15, 2015. Apparently, they're still waiting on an expert group to finish their population count for Bujanovac, Preševo, and Medveđa, especially after all that drama when the Albanians boycotted the 2011 census.

I wonder if they'll start counting people born in Switzerland twenty years ago too.😵

Which agency are you even working with? It’s been six months and they still haven't released the final data regarding live births from 2014.