Behavioral patterns and analysis

So, I guess I'll just... go ahead and open this one. It’s a specific topic, and honestly? It might end up being a permanent thing here.

I guess the whole point of this thread should be about those specific situations we keep running into over and over again... you know, those patterns that just become hardwired habits? Like, behaviors that basically end up sabotaging ourselves and just dragging down our overall quality of life. It’s that cycle where we keep doing the same thing, even when it hurts us, and I think it would be really helpful if we could talk about those self-defeating patterns.
And then there's all the attempts at analyzing everything... you know, the way the original poster tries to break it down, plus all those different takes from the other folks on the forum too. It's kind of a lot, I guess. Everyone's got their own way of interpreting things, maybe.
Welcome aboard! And please, I'm begging you... let's keep the advice concrete. I really mean that. Just, uh, no more of those super basic, tired clichés, okay? Please.

I feel like the core premise here is that everyone sharing their stories has already tried forcing themselves to act against their gut instinct, and it didn't work—which, honestly, makes total sense. Feelings are basically our compass. Sure, logic can jump to all sorts of conclusions, but without that internal compass, you just don't have any real certainty about what steps to actually take next. So, if you're going to offer advice like "just push through it" or "you can do this, just believe in yourself," please... maybe save that for a different thread. What we actually need are smart workarounds and actual strategies based on real psychology and neurology. In other words, could we please spare us the life gurus, the religious zealots, and those people who think they've "unlocked the secret to life" (mostly because they probably just have a manic level of dopamine running through their brains)? Let's stick to things that actually work.

I guess I'll just start by laying out a few different situations... maybe that's a good way to kick things off? Yeah, let's go with that.

Scenario 1... I guess? Just sort of staring at this first one. Maybe there's more coming later, who knows. Anyway, here we go.

So, I’m trying to sell my used car, right? And there’s this buyer who’s totally trying to haggle me down on the price. But honestly... I don't know, I just feel this massive, almost overwhelming urge to tell them absolutely everything that's wrong with it. Like, I can't help it. I feel like I have to list every single tiny flaw, and then—and this is the part where I probably go overboard—I start speculating about what might break next. I'll be sitting there like, "Okay, so the alternator might give out in six months, and that'll probably cost you like $800, and honestly, most mechanics at those local shops in Chicago just don't have a clue how to fix it properly anyway." It's kind of ridiculous, I guess. I just feel this need to be completely transparent, even if it makes me look crazy or ruins the deal. Maybe it's just how I am. I just want them to know everything.
I honestly don't feel like I have any way to actually convince a customer to buy a car. It would probably fall into that whole "self-advocacy" category—which, in my mind, is basically a zero out of ten. I don't try to sway their decision at all, really... I just stick to the hard facts, though I do it with absolutely zero enthusiasm or salesy persuasion. Because of that, when I'm negotiating, I find myself dropping the price much lower than I ever intended to. It happens a lot, actually. Overall, I just end up acting like I have this desperate need to please the buyer, even if it ends up hurting me in the long run. I guess that's just how I am.

I guess I should probably try to break this down... if I can even get my thoughts straight. It’s a bit much, honestly. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but there's just so much going on here. I mean, looking at the whole situation, it feels like we're missing the bigger picture somehow. Or maybe I am? I don't know. It’s hard to say for sure without more data, I suppose. Everything just feels sort of... scattered. Like, you look at one part and it makes sense, but then you pivot to the next thing and everything shifts again. It's a lot to process. Just my two cents, though. I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of it all.
I mean, I really wouldn't want my car dealer to hide all the flaws from me, you know? Like, if I were buying a used Ford or something, I’d want the full story. So, I guess... when I'm actually the one in the position of selling, I make sure to report everything. I just think it's better that way. Maybe it's just how I am, but yeah, I'd rather be upfront about the issues.
Look, as a buyer... I don't care. Honestly? I’m just completely indifferent to all that sales pitch nonsense. I don't need the fluff or the high-pressure tactics. I just want the facts. Plain and simple. I have this... I guess you could call it a total filter for all that extra noise. To me, being pushed into buying something through some clever persuasion feels like I'm basically insulting my own intelligence. It’s kind of degrading, if that makes sense? So, yeah—there's no way I could ever use those kinds of techniques myself if I were on the other side of the counter. Like, I just can't. I really couldn't do it.
When it comes to haggling... I don't know. I kind of feel like a cheapskate if someone tries to give me a better deal and I just, like, refuse to take it? It’s weird. Maybe I'm just being stingy, but honestly, it feels more like I'm just trying to avoid a confrontation. Like, I just want to keep things smooth and peaceful, you know? I guess I'm just conflict-avoidant. Or maybe I am actually just being tight. I can't tell.

So, I was thinking about that second situation again... you know, the one we were talking about earlier? I guess I’m still kind of chewing on it. It’s just one of those things where everything feels a bit unsettled, maybe? I don't know. It feels like there isn't really a clear way forward, or at least nothing feels super obvious right now. I might be overthinking it, though. Honestly, I probably am. But yeah, that second scenario... it's just weighing on my mind a little bit more than I expected it to.

It’s kind of a role reversal, isn't it? I’m out here trying to buy a used car, and I find myself being super careful about how I phrase things. I don't want to sound like I'm accusing the seller of trying to scam me or pull some fast one, you know? I mean, I’m sitting there, listening to them spin these long, elaborate tales—basically just selling me a bunch of hot air—and I'm just thinking to myself, *man, he's really laying it on thick.* But most of the time, I probably won't say anything. I’ll just politely nod along to their sales pitch, eat up whatever nonsense they're serving, and maybe—for some weird, inexplicable reason—actually end up buying the car despite all the fluff. I guess that's just how it goes.
I mean, I don't even have to say it, right? I’ve seriously messed up the ball so many times during different buy-sell deals... it's just one of those things, I guess.

So, here's my take on this... I really don't like it when customers grill me like I’m some kind of con artist, you know? And honestly, I don't do that to people when I'm out shopping either—not at all. I guess consciously buying overpriced junk just to avoid an argument is basically just conflict avoidance, IMO. Like, why bother? Also, when I buy stuff, it’s usually things I actually want, and man, I want them BADLY. I mean, I want them enough that I'll just totally ignore the insults to my intelligence from being sold garbage, and I'll probably ignore a crazy high price tag or even a flaw that I really shouldn't be overlooking. Maybe that's just how I am, I guess.
I mean, at the end of the day... making any kind of rational, realistic decision when you're dealing with this much internal pressure? It’s basically impossible. I guess it just doesn't work that way. Maybe it's just the situation, but honestly, it feels pretty much impossible to think straight under all that weight.

I guess I’m starting to see some real issues with my own internal wiring... like, there's this super intense, controlling conscience, right? And then there's this massive urge to avoid any kind of conflict at all costs. Combined with this huge, overwhelming surge of passion or desire... it just feels like it leads to such dysfunctional behavior. It really messes with my ability to actually assess things emotionally and objectively at the same time. I mean, don't get me wrong—I can analyze a situation rationally. I can see the logic perfectly fine. But if I don't have that gut feeling, that underlying emotion telling me the assessment is actually *right*... I just can't bring myself to act on what my brain knows is the logical conclusion. Because, you know, feelings are what actually drive us. Without that connection, I feel like I have this real deficit when it comes to making decisions that are actually grounded in reality. It's tough.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overthinking this, but it honestly feels like several different parts of my brain are all firing at once, like they're hyperactive or something. It’s creating this massive dysfunction where I feel totally torn between two extremes. It's almost like those loud, overwhelming centers are just drowning everything else out... so the other parts of my brain don't even get a fair chance to actually function or do their jobs because the others are just screaming way too loud. I guess that's how it feels.

Kudos to you for bringing this up...
I’ll probably spend the next few years just sitting in my therapist's office dissecting this exact topic. 😁
I definitely have my own patterns too... they've been there since I was a kid, and honestly, they just seem to get more sophisticated as I get older. It’s not like I’m literally running headfirst into a wall anymore, but I’m still hitting something... it's like they become this blueprint because we know them so well. Looking at your examples (even without the car stuff), I totally see myself in there. Every single time I decide to break the cycle, my common sense kicks in, but then it feels like all my inner saboteurs jump in to drag me back into anxiety... mostly because I actually tried to do something outside of my usual routine. It's like being stuck in one of those endless loops where you know it might not even be the right answer, but you just keep spinning anyway.

Jessica Fowler4 said:So, I guess I'll just... go ahead and open this one. It’s a specific topic, and honestly? It might end up being a permanent thing here.

I guess the whole point of this thread should be about those specific situations we keep running into over and over again... you know, those patterns that just become hardwired habits? Like, behaviors that basically end up sabotaging ourselves and just dragging down our overall quality of life. It’s that cycle where we keep doing the same thing, even when it hurts us, and I think it would be really helpful if we could talk about those self-defeating patterns.
And then there's all the attempts at analyzing everything... you know, the way the original poster tries to break it down, plus all those different takes from the other folks on the forum too. It's kind of a lot, I guess. Everyone's got their own way of interpreting things, maybe.
Welcome aboard! And please, I'm begging you... let's keep the advice concrete. I really mean that. Just, uh, no more of those super basic, tired clichés, okay? Please.

I feel like the core premise here is that everyone sharing their stories has already tried forcing themselves to act against their gut instinct, and it didn't work—which, honestly, makes total sense. Feelings are basically our compass. Sure, logic can jump to all sorts of conclusions, but without that internal compass, you just don't have any real certainty about what steps to actually take next. So, if you're going to offer advice like "just push through it" or "you can do this, just believe in yourself," please... maybe save that for a different thread. What we actually need are smart workarounds and actual strategies based on real psychology and neurology. In other words, could we please spare us the life gurus, the religious zealots, and those people who think they've "unlocked the secret to life" (mostly because they probably just have a manic level of dopamine running through their brains)? Let's stick to things that actually work.

I guess I'll just start by laying out a few different situations... maybe that's a good way to kick things off? Yeah, let's go with that.

Scenario 1... I guess? Just sort of staring at this first one. Maybe there's more coming later, who knows. Anyway, here we go.

So, I’m trying to sell my used car, right? And there’s this buyer who’s totally trying to haggle me down on the price. But honestly... I don't know, I just feel this massive, almost overwhelming urge to tell them absolutely everything that's wrong with it. Like, I can't help it. I feel like I have to list every single tiny flaw, and then—and this is the part where I probably go overboard—I start speculating about what might break next. I'll be sitting there like, "Okay, so the alternator might give out in six months, and that'll probably cost you like $800, and honestly, most mechanics at those local shops in Chicago just don't have a clue how to fix it properly anyway." It's kind of ridiculous, I guess. I just feel this need to be completely transparent, even if it makes me look crazy or ruins the deal. Maybe it's just how I am. I just want them to know everything.
I honestly don't feel like I have any way to actually convince a customer to buy a car. It would probably fall into that whole "self-advocacy" category—which, in my mind, is basically a zero out of ten. I don't try to sway their decision at all, really... I just stick to the hard facts, though I do it with absolutely zero enthusiasm or salesy persuasion. Because of that, when I'm negotiating, I find myself dropping the price much lower than I ever intended to. It happens a lot, actually. Overall, I just end up acting like I have this desperate need to please the buyer, even if it ends up hurting me in the long run. I guess that's just how I am.

I guess I should probably try to break this down... if I can even get my thoughts straight. It’s a bit much, honestly. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but there's just so much going on here. I mean, looking at the whole situation, it feels like we're missing the bigger picture somehow. Or maybe I am? I don't know. It’s hard to say for sure without more data, I suppose. Everything just feels sort of... scattered. Like, you look at one part and it makes sense, but then you pivot to the next thing and everything shifts again. It's a lot to process. Just my two cents, though. I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of it all.
I mean, I really wouldn't want my car dealer to hide all the flaws from me, you know? Like, if I were buying a used Ford or something, I’d want the full story. So, I guess... when I'm actually the one in the position of selling, I make sure to report everything. I just think it's better that way. Maybe it's just how I am, but yeah, I'd rather be upfront about the issues.
Look, as a buyer... I don't care. Honestly? I’m just completely indifferent to all that sales pitch nonsense. I don't need the fluff or the high-pressure tactics. I just want the facts. Plain and simple. I have this... I guess you could call it a total filter for all that extra noise. To me, being pushed into buying something through some clever persuasion feels like I'm basically insulting my own intelligence. It’s kind of degrading, if that makes sense? So, yeah—there's no way I could ever use those kinds of techniques myself if I were on the other side of the counter. Like, I just can't. I really couldn't do it.
When it comes to haggling... I don't know. I kind of feel like a cheapskate if someone tries to give me a better deal and I just, like, refuse to take it? It’s weird. Maybe I'm just being stingy, but honestly, it feels more like I'm just trying to avoid a confrontation. Like, I just want to keep things smooth and peaceful, you know? I guess I'm just conflict-avoidant. Or maybe I am actually just being tight. I can't tell.

So, I was thinking about that second situation again... you know, the one we were talking about earlier? I guess I’m still kind of chewing on it. It’s just one of those things where everything feels a bit unsettled, maybe? I don't know. It feels like there isn't really a clear way forward, or at least nothing feels super obvious right now. I might be overthinking it, though. Honestly, I probably am. But yeah, that second scenario... it's just weighing on my mind a little bit more than I expected it to.

It’s kind of a role reversal, isn't it? I’m out here trying to buy a used car, and I find myself being super careful about how I phrase things. I don't want to sound like I'm accusing the seller of trying to scam me or pull some fast one, you know? I mean, I’m sitting there, listening to them spin these long, elaborate tales—basically just selling me a bunch of hot air—and I'm just thinking to myself, *man, he's really laying it on thick.* But most of the time, I probably won't say anything. I’ll just politely nod along to their sales pitch, eat up whatever nonsense they're serving, and maybe—for some weird, inexplicable reason—actually end up buying the car despite all the fluff. I guess that's just how it goes.
I mean, I don't even have to say it, right? I’ve seriously messed up the ball so many times during different buy-sell deals... it's just one of those things, I guess.

So, here's my take on this... I really don't like it when customers grill me like I’m some kind of con artist, you know? And honestly, I don't do that to people when I'm out shopping either—not at all. I guess consciously buying overpriced junk just to avoid an argument is basically just conflict avoidance, IMO. Like, why bother? Also, when I buy stuff, it’s usually things I actually want, and man, I want them BADLY. I mean, I want them enough that I'll just totally ignore the insults to my intelligence from being sold garbage, and I'll probably ignore a crazy high price tag or even a flaw that I really shouldn't be overlooking. Maybe that's just how I am, I guess.
I mean, at the end of the day... making any kind of rational, realistic decision when you're dealing with this much internal pressure? It’s basically impossible. I guess it just doesn't work that way. Maybe it's just the situation, but honestly, it feels pretty much impossible to think straight under all that weight.

I guess I’m starting to see some real issues with my own internal wiring... like, there's this super intense, controlling conscience, right? And then there's this massive urge to avoid any kind of conflict at all costs. Combined with this huge, overwhelming surge of passion or desire... it just feels like it leads to such dysfunctional behavior. It really messes with my ability to actually assess things emotionally and objectively at the same time. I mean, don't get me wrong—I can analyze a situation rationally. I can see the logic perfectly fine. But if I don't have that gut feeling, that underlying emotion telling me the assessment is actually *right*... I just can't bring myself to act on what my brain knows is the logical conclusion. Because, you know, feelings are what actually drive us. Without that connection, I feel like I have this real deficit when it comes to making decisions that are actually grounded in reality. It's tough.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overthinking this, but it honestly feels like several different parts of my brain are all firing at once, like they're hyperactive or something. It’s creating this massive dysfunction where I feel totally torn between two extremes. It's almost like those loud, overwhelming centers are just drowning everything else out... so the other parts of my brain don't even get a fair chance to actually function or do their jobs because the others are just screaming way too loud. I guess that's how it feels.

But let's be clear: being "realistic" and being "rational" aren't even the same thing! They often point to two completely different directions, don't they?
Behavioral patterns are essentially just habits—and if we're being honest, aren't we all just slaves to our own habits?
It all comes down to culture, too. What seems totally bizarre to one person might just be a standard pattern to someone else.
There is an entire field of science dedicated to studying how different nations, individuals, or social groups exhibit specific behavioral patterns based on a thousand different variables, and blah, blah, blah...
It’s a fascinating topic, truly, but it would take an absolute lifetime to write it all out here...🙄

Can we get some specifics here?

The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg

I watched a quick summary of it on YouTube.

It’s available as a PDF online (but I won't go on about where to find it 😁),

and I highly recommend it. At first glance, the book feels pretty pessimistic, but it really isn't. 😁

gentleraven90 said:Kudos to you for bringing this up...
I’ll probably spend the next few years just sitting in my therapist's office dissecting this exact topic. 😁
I definitely have my own patterns too... they've been there since I was a kid, and honestly, they just seem to get more sophisticated as I get older. It’s not like I’m literally running headfirst into a wall anymore, but I’m still hitting something... it's like they become this blueprint because we know them so well. Looking at your examples (even without the car stuff), I totally see myself in there. Every single time I decide to break the cycle, my common sense kicks in, but then it feels like all my inner saboteurs jump in to drag me back into anxiety... mostly because I actually tried to do something outside of my usual routine. It's like being stuck in one of those endless loops where you know it might not even be the right answer, but you just keep spinning anyway.

Aren't all these patterns rooted in our childhood? 🤷

The constant attempts to please others, the desperate need to secure something at a specific moment, the entire blueprint we gathered within our primary family unit and then just carried forward into every other relationship we build?

edit: Regarding some of my own patterns—yes, I absolutely have them, and they are certainly worth exporting. However, this entire area of my life has shifted significantly since I started psychotherapy two years ago. I am certainly more self-aware now; I can detect them in the moment and even analyze them, though I think I'm still a long way off from any radical, fundamental changes. Honestly, even reaching this level of awareness means a great deal to me, and I am incredibly proud of myself for making that progress.
I’ve actually noticed behavioral patterns where I’m essentially trying to correct my parents' mistakes—trying to act out the things they weren't capable of doing many years ago. And quite often, the emotions just sweep me away. For a long time, I didn't understand why I reacted the way I did, until I finally realized that as an adult, I am effectively protecting my parents because I couldn't, or didn't know how to, protect them (from themselves and everyone else) back when I was a child.

Oh, there is plenty of that to go around... as Kevin Nguyen3 mentioned, we should probably be writing a lot more right now... and we certainly want to, it's just not all going to happen in one sitting. 🙂

Andrew Doyle said:Aren't all these patterns rooted in our childhood? 🤷

The constant attempts to please others, the desperate need to secure something at a specific moment, the entire blueprint we gathered within our primary family unit and then just carried forward into every other relationship we build?

edit: Regarding some of my own patterns—yes, I absolutely have them, and they are certainly worth exporting. However, this entire area of my life has shifted significantly since I started psychotherapy two years ago. I am certainly more self-aware now; I can detect them in the moment and even analyze them, though I think I'm still a long way off from any radical, fundamental changes. Honestly, even reaching this level of awareness means a great deal to me, and I am incredibly proud of myself for making that progress.
I’ve actually noticed behavioral patterns where I’m essentially trying to correct my parents' mistakes—trying to act out the things they weren't capable of doing many years ago. And quite often, the emotions just sweep me away. For a long time, I didn't understand why I reacted the way I did, until I finally realized that as an adult, I am effectively protecting my parents because I couldn't, or didn't know how to, protect them (from themselves and everyone else) back when I was a child.

Oh, there is plenty of that to go around... as Kevin Nguyen3 mentioned, we should probably be writing a lot more right now... and we certainly want to, it's just not all going to happen in one sitting. 🙂

Man, you're really laying it all out there... I guess if I haven't grown past this stuff by now, I might be getting a little old, haha.😍

gentleraven90 said:Man, you're really laying it all out there... I guess if I haven't grown past this stuff by now, I might be getting a little old, haha.😍

Good grief... I absolutely have to call her out on this one. 😁

(My apologies to the OP, we aren't going to continue this chat!)

Here is a specific example

Whenever my family gets together, things tend to get pretty quiet—we aren't exactly big talkers, and those awkward silences can really hang in the air.
Not too long ago—over the last year or so—I used to feel this intense anxiety during those lulls, so I basically stepped up as the designated entertainer.
I’d be the one to jump in and kickstart a conversation about anything and everything just to break the ice.
That usually helped ease the tension in the room (and the tension inside me, too).
But honestly, thanks to some psychotherapy, things have actually started to shift.

Another concrete example

My dad will drive me home from the subway station—it's only about a ten-minute ride.
He stays silent, and I stay silent.
In my head, I make this firm decision: okay, if you're choosing to be quiet, then fine—I'm done being the entertainer. I'm over it.
And more often than not, what happens is he'll eventually start talking—usually just about something totally mundane—but it's clear that HE is the one who can't handle the discomfort of the silence anymore.
So, I managed to change one specific behavioral pattern.
It isn't always easy, though; depending on my mood or where I am mentally, it can still be a struggle.

It's funny because my mom has been using that "just say anything, just don't be silent" approach for years—I'm not sure if she was the one who modeled that behavior for me, but it's highly likely.

second example

dad

My dad’s approval—his opinion—was always everything to me, even if I didn't realize it at the time. We finally hit on that in therapy; honestly, it took years of sessions to stop caring so much about what he thought. Maybe it’s even become irrelevant now—once I feel secure in my own decisions, I just don't feel that desperate need to clash with him anymore. Now, I'll just let him vent or, more often, I won't even bother telling him certain things at all.

third example

mom

In therapy, I finally confronted her about all the ways she messed up—which was a huge shift, because until then, she was basically my best friend, the one person I could tell absolutely anything to (yeah, right!).

Well, that changed too.

She noticed my behavior shifting, but she saw it as me pulling away—almost like I was hiding secrets from her or something.

And I am certain she will never truly understand why I changed.
So, these days, she gets way less of my trust and much less information about my life.

But, the thing I probably won't ever achieve is this deep-seated desire—this need—for us to be a functional family. Too much time has passed, too much has happened, too many opportunities were missed, and they're getting older, becoming even more selfish and self-centered.
It's definitely going to take me a long time to emotionally process all of this, and I likely won't ever fully get there.

Jessica Fowler4 said:So, I guess I'll just... go ahead and open this one. It’s a specific topic, and honestly? It might end up being a permanent thing here.

I guess the whole point of this thread should be about those specific situations we keep running into over and over again... you know, those patterns that just become hardwired habits? Like, behaviors that basically end up sabotaging ourselves and just dragging down our overall quality of life. It’s that cycle where we keep doing the same thing, even when it hurts us, and I think it would be really helpful if we could talk about those self-defeating patterns.
And then there's all the attempts at analyzing everything... you know, the way the original poster tries to break it down, plus all those different takes from the other folks on the forum too. It's kind of a lot, I guess. Everyone's got their own way of interpreting things, maybe.
Welcome aboard! And please, I'm begging you... let's keep the advice concrete. I really mean that. Just, uh, no more of those super basic, tired clichés, okay? Please.

I feel like the core premise here is that everyone sharing their stories has already tried forcing themselves to act against their gut instinct, and it didn't work—which, honestly, makes total sense. Feelings are basically our compass. Sure, logic can jump to all sorts of conclusions, but without that internal compass, you just don't have any real certainty about what steps to actually take next. So, if you're going to offer advice like "just push through it" or "you can do this, just believe in yourself," please... maybe save that for a different thread. What we actually need are smart workarounds and actual strategies based on real psychology and neurology. In other words, could we please spare us the life gurus, the religious zealots, and those people who think they've "unlocked the secret to life" (mostly because they probably just have a manic level of dopamine running through their brains)? Let's stick to things that actually work.

I guess I'll just start by laying out a few different situations... maybe that's a good way to kick things off? Yeah, let's go with that.

Scenario 1... I guess? Just sort of staring at this first one. Maybe there's more coming later, who knows. Anyway, here we go.

So, I’m trying to sell my used car, right? And there’s this buyer who’s totally trying to haggle me down on the price. But honestly... I don't know, I just feel this massive, almost overwhelming urge to tell them absolutely everything that's wrong with it. Like, I can't help it. I feel like I have to list every single tiny flaw, and then—and this is the part where I probably go overboard—I start speculating about what might break next. I'll be sitting there like, "Okay, so the alternator might give out in six months, and that'll probably cost you like $800, and honestly, most mechanics at those local shops in Chicago just don't have a clue how to fix it properly anyway." It's kind of ridiculous, I guess. I just feel this need to be completely transparent, even if it makes me look crazy or ruins the deal. Maybe it's just how I am. I just want them to know everything.
I honestly don't feel like I have any way to actually convince a customer to buy a car. It would probably fall into that whole "self-advocacy" category—which, in my mind, is basically a zero out of ten. I don't try to sway their decision at all, really... I just stick to the hard facts, though I do it with absolutely zero enthusiasm or salesy persuasion. Because of that, when I'm negotiating, I find myself dropping the price much lower than I ever intended to. It happens a lot, actually. Overall, I just end up acting like I have this desperate need to please the buyer, even if it ends up hurting me in the long run. I guess that's just how I am.

I guess I should probably try to break this down... if I can even get my thoughts straight. It’s a bit much, honestly. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but there's just so much going on here. I mean, looking at the whole situation, it feels like we're missing the bigger picture somehow. Or maybe I am? I don't know. It’s hard to say for sure without more data, I suppose. Everything just feels sort of... scattered. Like, you look at one part and it makes sense, but then you pivot to the next thing and everything shifts again. It's a lot to process. Just my two cents, though. I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of it all.
I mean, I really wouldn't want my car dealer to hide all the flaws from me, you know? Like, if I were buying a used Ford or something, I’d want the full story. So, I guess... when I'm actually the one in the position of selling, I make sure to report everything. I just think it's better that way. Maybe it's just how I am, but yeah, I'd rather be upfront about the issues.
Look, as a buyer... I don't care. Honestly? I’m just completely indifferent to all that sales pitch nonsense. I don't need the fluff or the high-pressure tactics. I just want the facts. Plain and simple. I have this... I guess you could call it a total filter for all that extra noise. To me, being pushed into buying something through some clever persuasion feels like I'm basically insulting my own intelligence. It’s kind of degrading, if that makes sense? So, yeah—there's no way I could ever use those kinds of techniques myself if I were on the other side of the counter. Like, I just can't. I really couldn't do it.
When it comes to haggling... I don't know. I kind of feel like a cheapskate if someone tries to give me a better deal and I just, like, refuse to take it? It’s weird. Maybe I'm just being stingy, but honestly, it feels more like I'm just trying to avoid a confrontation. Like, I just want to keep things smooth and peaceful, you know? I guess I'm just conflict-avoidant. Or maybe I am actually just being tight. I can't tell.

So, I was thinking about that second situation again... you know, the one we were talking about earlier? I guess I’m still kind of chewing on it. It’s just one of those things where everything feels a bit unsettled, maybe? I don't know. It feels like there isn't really a clear way forward, or at least nothing feels super obvious right now. I might be overthinking it, though. Honestly, I probably am. But yeah, that second scenario... it's just weighing on my mind a little bit more than I expected it to.

It’s kind of a role reversal, isn't it? I’m out here trying to buy a used car, and I find myself being super careful about how I phrase things. I don't want to sound like I'm accusing the seller of trying to scam me or pull some fast one, you know? I mean, I’m sitting there, listening to them spin these long, elaborate tales—basically just selling me a bunch of hot air—and I'm just thinking to myself, *man, he's really laying it on thick.* But most of the time, I probably won't say anything. I’ll just politely nod along to their sales pitch, eat up whatever nonsense they're serving, and maybe—for some weird, inexplicable reason—actually end up buying the car despite all the fluff. I guess that's just how it goes.
I mean, I don't even have to say it, right? I’ve seriously messed up the ball so many times during different buy-sell deals... it's just one of those things, I guess.

So, here's my take on this... I really don't like it when customers grill me like I’m some kind of con artist, you know? And honestly, I don't do that to people when I'm out shopping either—not at all. I guess consciously buying overpriced junk just to avoid an argument is basically just conflict avoidance, IMO. Like, why bother? Also, when I buy stuff, it’s usually things I actually want, and man, I want them BADLY. I mean, I want them enough that I'll just totally ignore the insults to my intelligence from being sold garbage, and I'll probably ignore a crazy high price tag or even a flaw that I really shouldn't be overlooking. Maybe that's just how I am, I guess.
I mean, at the end of the day... making any kind of rational, realistic decision when you're dealing with this much internal pressure? It’s basically impossible. I guess it just doesn't work that way. Maybe it's just the situation, but honestly, it feels pretty much impossible to think straight under all that weight.

I guess I’m starting to see some real issues with my own internal wiring... like, there's this super intense, controlling conscience, right? And then there's this massive urge to avoid any kind of conflict at all costs. Combined with this huge, overwhelming surge of passion or desire... it just feels like it leads to such dysfunctional behavior. It really messes with my ability to actually assess things emotionally and objectively at the same time. I mean, don't get me wrong—I can analyze a situation rationally. I can see the logic perfectly fine. But if I don't have that gut feeling, that underlying emotion telling me the assessment is actually *right*... I just can't bring myself to act on what my brain knows is the logical conclusion. Because, you know, feelings are what actually drive us. Without that connection, I feel like I have this real deficit when it comes to making decisions that are actually grounded in reality. It's tough.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overthinking this, but it honestly feels like several different parts of my brain are all firing at once, like they're hyperactive or something. It’s creating this massive dysfunction where I feel totally torn between two extremes. It's almost like those loud, overwhelming centers are just drowning everything else out... so the other parts of my brain don't even get a fair chance to actually function or do their jobs because the others are just screaming way too loud. I guess that's how it feels.

Being aware of the problem is a huge first step—seriously, it's half the battle. To me, it sounds like the core issue is a paralyzing fear of what other people think. There isn't some magic pill or a quick fix here, obviously. You have to start small, taking tiny steps in everyday situations to build the muscle memory of actually following through on your logical conclusions. Honestly, you probably already do this sometimes without realizing it. Like, maybe it's showing up to work when you really don't feel like it, or standing your ground against a weird opinion a friend or family member throws at you.

Obviously, you can't just shut your emotions off entirely—sometimes you have to listen to them too. The goal is finding that sweet spot of self-control, where you can actually find a balance between the head and the heart.

fadedbear92 said:second example

dad

My dad’s approval—his opinion—was always everything to me, even if I didn't realize it at the time. We finally hit on that in therapy; honestly, it took years of sessions to stop caring so much about what he thought. Maybe it’s even become irrelevant now—once I feel secure in my own decisions, I just don't feel that desperate need to clash with him anymore. Now, I'll just let him vent or, more often, I won't even bother telling him certain things at all.

third example

mom

In therapy, I finally confronted her about all the ways she messed up—which was a huge shift, because until then, she was basically my best friend, the one person I could tell absolutely anything to (yeah, right!).

Well, that changed too.

She noticed my behavior shifting, but she saw it as me pulling away—almost like I was hiding secrets from her or something.

And I am certain she will never truly understand why I changed.
So, these days, she gets way less of my trust and much less information about my life.

But, the thing I probably won't ever achieve is this deep-seated desire—this need—for us to be a functional family. Too much time has passed, too much has happened, too many opportunities were missed, and they're getting older, becoming even more selfish and self-centered.
It's definitely going to take me a long time to emotionally process all of this, and I likely won't ever fully get there.

I am in the exact same boat. Over the last two years, I have finally managed to strip him of his throne and put myself in charge instead—can you imagine? Again, I owe that realization to my work in therapy. For most of my life, I was never "good enough" for him. It actually drove me to a point where I became quite destructive; I would do anything just to shock him. It was a twisted logic: if I could never be good enough, then fine, I'll be the absolute worst. At least in that extreme, I could be number one.
Basically, through therapy, I finally realized that I have every right to exist and be myself regardless of what anyone else thinks or says.

fadedbear92 said:second example

dad

My dad’s approval—his opinion—was always everything to me, even if I didn't realize it at the time. We finally hit on that in therapy; honestly, it took years of sessions to stop caring so much about what he thought. Maybe it’s even become irrelevant now—once I feel secure in my own decisions, I just don't feel that desperate need to clash with him anymore. Now, I'll just let him vent or, more often, I won't even bother telling him certain things at all.

third example

mom

In therapy, I finally confronted her about all the ways she messed up—which was a huge shift, because until then, she was basically my best friend, the one person I could tell absolutely anything to (yeah, right!).

Well, that changed too.

She noticed my behavior shifting, but she saw it as me pulling away—almost like I was hiding secrets from her or something.

And I am certain she will never truly understand why I changed.
So, these days, she gets way less of my trust and much less information about my life.

But, the thing I probably won't ever achieve is this deep-seated desire—this need—for us to be a functional family. Too much time has passed, too much has happened, too many opportunities were missed, and they're getting older, becoming even more selfish and self-centered.
It's definitely going to take me a long time to emotionally process all of this, and I likely won't ever fully get there.

Starting my own family pushed me away from my original family in a way that actually allowed me to find peace with our history. I've accepted that we can't change who we are, and I've embraced the reality of our family dynamic as it is. Since making that shift, we’ve actually become much closer. I used to spend so much energy resisting them.

This is such a fantastic topic. There are millions of ways we could approach this, so I’m going to take some time to gather my thoughts properly. Once I have a moment to sit down and really dive in, I'll post a full response. Until then—I'll be busy reading through the thread. 🙂

I’m actually into this topic—the first post really hit home for me.😢

I look at my own behavioral patterns from a completely different angle. I don't care about the messy middle; I only care about the bottom line—was it a "yes" or a "no"? I need to spot what triggers the pattern, sure, but changing the trigger isn't my priority. The outcome is everything.
That’s why I view any pattern through the lens of satisfaction versus frustration.

When things go sideways and I hit a "no," I just mitigate the fallout by telling myself, "I had no choice."
But when I recognize a pattern forming, I do absolutely everything in my power to ensure the result is a "yes." Nothing else matters. Anything else is just a fast track to trouble. If it ends up being a "no," then I know I did everything possible to stop the pattern, and my internal response is simply, "well, I had no choice."

In short, I'm not interested in micromanaging the causes behind a pattern. I just want to identify it and control the consequence. Honestly, it's a much simpler way to live.
Take selling a car, for example. Next time you're dealing with a dealership, don't overthink it. Just look at the result: Did you sell it for the price you wanted? If the answer is "no," then you "had no choice."
Now, don't get it twisted—saying "I had no choice" isn't an excuse. Once you see the pattern, there is only one acceptable answer: "yes."

For instance, I realized I was starting to get way too aggressive when discussing a certain topic—not here, obviously, but in my professional life with colleagues. I caught onto it, and even when people tried to bait me into that same conversation two days later, I recognized the loop. Did I become more aggressive? No. I forced a "yes."
I didn't waste a single second worrying about my mental state or my emotional processes during that pattern. I cared about the consequence: aggressive communication. I fixed the consequence, therefore I fixed the pattern.
That's just how I see the world.

a specific example

When we get together, my family doesn't talk much. There’s often this awkward silence hanging in the air.
Not too long ago—maybe over the last year or so—I used to feel incredibly anxious in those moments, so I took on the role of the entertainer.
Basically, I’d be the one kicking off conversations about this or that topic.
That would usually ease the tension in the room (and in me).
But some things have actually changed, thanks to psychotherapy.

1.Your motivation for talking is just so you don't feel so terrible.
--> You probably don't even know how they're feeling. They might have a completely different perspective or set of emotions than you do in that situation.

2.You mentioned taking on the role of the entertainer. But wait, who are you entertaining? Yourself or them? Playing the entertainer is like working a job where you aren't getting paid anything. But you actually are! Like you said, your feelings change and you don't feel so bad. You take action, and they become the means through which you feel better.

3.Let's define what communication actually is.
What counts as communication? Words, gestures, non-verbal cues, emotions.
Words and speech shouldn't really be the foundation of communication... emotions should come first. Emotions show up through non-verbal actions—like when you turn toward someone, look at them, and give them your attention. Giving someone your attention is the core of communication, and it's more important than words. When you focus your attention on someone else, you shift the focus away from yourself and stop obsessing over your own thoughts, emotions, or that uncomfortable silence.

It’s possible to be with people for two hours without saying a single word and still feel fulfilled and connected. What's the trick? It happens when you're actively engaged in the communication—really listening to what others say and watching them. You don't have time to overthink or manufacture ideas. True engagement comes spontaneously and naturally, not through analysis and forced effort.
I've noticed this myself when I'm feeling low: I close myself off non-verbally. I stop making eye contact and my body language becomes guarded. Now, there are two options: I can fill that mental gap with attention and active listening or I can start building a narrative:
"Nobody is listening to me."
"I can't get a word in edgewise."
"I'm weak," etc.
When we listen actively, there isn't any room for those kinds of thoughts. !!

another specific example

My dad drives me home from the train station—it's about a ten-minute drive.
He stays silent, and I stay silent.
Then I make a decision inside my head: fine, if you've decided to be quiet, then so am I. I DON'T WANT TO BE the entertainer anymore.
And what usually happens? He starts talking. The topics are banal, sure, but it's obvious he can't handle the discomfort of the silence either.
So, I've changed one behavioral pattern.
It's not always easy, though. Sometimes it's hard, depending on how I'm doing generally or what phase I'm in.

Sure, but people don't "stay quiet" because they want you to feel bad. They are just in their own worlds with their own thoughts. In a way, you're holding the silent person responsible for how you feel. You're being passively angry at them. You've given that person the power to dictate your emotions, so you hold them accountable, and then you end up feeling bad because you know deep down you betrayed yourself by shifting the responsibility onto them. Subconsciously, you're admitting helplessness.

It’s funny how that "just say anything, just don't stay silent" pattern works. My mom has been using that tactic for years. I wonder if she’s the reason I ended up like this—it's highly likely, I guess.

That's a sharp observation. Looking at myself, I've picked up way too many patterns from my dad. Not so much from my mother. Maybe we just gravitate toward the parent we resemble more.
I'd argue we actually learn how to act from them. They basically serve as a blueprint for how to handle certain situations, and we just end up mimicking it.
Here are the patterns I inherited from my father:
--> playing the victim
--> social tension / either be the center of attention or get emotionally crushed
--> a sense of inferiority
--> passivity
--> the "angry little diet" effect

peace

Aren't all these patterns just leftovers from childhood? 🤷

That's a heavy question.
People always say most psychological issues stem from a lack of love.
Though, if you ask me, it’s more about attention.
Attention is basically just having someone acknowledge that you actually exist.
If we didn't get much attention growing up, we don't really have much left to give once we hit adulthood. All that focus stays locked inside us—just this constant preoccupation with our own internal mess, our feelings, our thoughts, whatever. It makes it nearly impossible to "step outside" ourselves and just get a break from our own heads.

As for my own pattern...
When I was a kid, if someone made me angry, I’d just want to crawl into a closet and stay there forever. I used my own misery as a way to punish the people who loved me. I wanted to feel terrible just so they would feel bad too, thinking that if they cared about me, they’d suffer alongside me (at least, that’s what I told myself). Nowadays, I see that same pattern popping up everywhere—with friends, at home, even with my girlfriend. Instead of just snapping out of it, I just default to being passive-aggressive.

peace

electricranger16, man, seriously... this is SO good. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it really hit the spot 😁

gentleraven90 said:electricranger16, man, seriously... this is SO good. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it really hit the spot 😁

I'm honestly glad 🙂
I used to struggle pretty badly with social anxiety and performance anxiety.
I went through CBT, mindfulness training, and was on Paxil (an antidepressant) for two and a half years.
My takeaway from all that is that you should give others what you feel you're lacking.
Giving brings happiness; receiving doesn't quite hit the same.There’s much more fulfillment in paying attention than in being the center of attention. There's way more peace in listening than in talking. And when I say listening, I mean actually being an active listener. In any group, people can tell who the active listeners are; everyone ends up turning to them because, subconsciously, they know those people are actually hearing them, while most people are just waiting for their turn to speak and then jumping in with their own opinion. You see, when you give attention, it reflects back on you automatically. Everything you put out into the world comes back like a boomerang—it's just some kind of law. It’s like the world is our own mirror; if we spit on it, we're spitting on ourselves. If we kiss it, we're kissing ourselves. When we give the world attention, it's like we're giving it to ourselves...
Next time you're in a larger group, try to get actively involved in the conversation. Just observe everyone while they talk. Once someone finishes, shift your gaze to the next person speaking, let your eyes wander slightly🙂. You’ll find that you start participating spontaneously. It feels almost unconscious, almost natural. You won't even have to overthink what to say. And the attention you get just for being there without saying much? It’s like magic.🙂
Best, 🙂

electricranger16 said:I'm honestly glad 🙂
I used to struggle pretty badly with social anxiety and performance anxiety.
I went through CBT, mindfulness training, and was on Paxil (an antidepressant) for two and a half years.
My takeaway from all that is that you should give others what you feel you're lacking.
Giving brings happiness; receiving doesn't quite hit the same.There’s much more fulfillment in paying attention than in being the center of attention. There's way more peace in listening than in talking. And when I say listening, I mean actually being an active listener. In any group, people can tell who the active listeners are; everyone ends up turning to them because, subconsciously, they know those people are actually hearing them, while most people are just waiting for their turn to speak and then jumping in with their own opinion. You see, when you give attention, it reflects back on you automatically. Everything you put out into the world comes back like a boomerang—it's just some kind of law. It’s like the world is our own mirror; if we spit on it, we're spitting on ourselves. If we kiss it, we're kissing ourselves. When we give the world attention, it's like we're giving it to ourselves...
Next time you're in a larger group, try to get actively involved in the conversation. Just observe everyone while they talk. Once someone finishes, shift your gaze to the next person speaking, let your eyes wander slightly🙂. You’ll find that you start participating spontaneously. It feels almost unconscious, almost natural. You won't even have to overthink what to say. And the attention you get just for being there without saying much? It’s like magic.🙂
Best, 🙂

I wouldn't say I have any major issues with social anxiety or anything like that... but I am trying to work on being a more active listener. I've been seeing a psychoanalyst lately, though honestly, I can't see an end in sight for these sessions. It feels like a pretty endless process, I guess. 😁
I guess I'm just working on beefing up my ego a bit, you know? It feels like if I could just build up enough inner confidence, I might actually be able to be a little more open and approachable toward the world around me. Maybe that’s how it works.
Anyway, I gotta say, this is a pretty interesting post!

Great topic!
The one pattern that jumps out at me immediately—the only one that actually bothers me and keeps me from finally "growing up"—is this protector role I took on for my mother way too early. Even though I’ve told her (and myself) several times that I can't and won't do this anymore, I haven't quite pulled it off yet. We’ve talked about it, and she’s even asked what she could do differently, but the truth is, it’s on ME to change how I react to her.
Beyond that, we’re incredibly enmeshed; we mirror each other's moods constantly. Even now that I haven't lived with her for about six months, I still get this sudden urge to run back to her like a child, even after counting down the days until I moved out.
She has such a massive influence on me. If she’s in a bad mood or feeling down, I just soak it up like a sponge and carry it into my own life. For a long time, I blamed her for it. Maybe that was fine when I was eighteen, but at nearly thirty, I can't do that anymore.
We’ve been through so much together, supporting each other through some truly awful situations, and I know I can always count on her, but I have to let go of this burden.
Here is what I learned from her: when someone you love complains about something, you feel obligated to do everything in your power to fix it immediately. She doesn't seem to grasp that sometimes—more often than not, actually—people just want to talk about their problems. She views a complaint as a task she needs to solve. That's exactly how I react when she's struggling; my brain immediately shifts to: "What do I need to do?" It's like a part of my mind just shuts off, and everything I just wrote disappears. Even when I manage to discipline myself around her, it weighs on me and stays stuck in my head.
I know it's a cliché: the mother-daughter dynamic. Not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

A few other patterns come to mind, but maybe next time.