Induced spiritual experiences

urbanwalker72 said:👍

"Quote:"

casualtiger2, please try to maintain a sense of focus. I am simply asking whether you believe you would be capable of distinguishing between them, or if such a distinction would elude you entirely. That is the only point of importance here.

If we lose our capacity to discern, what purpose does our perception even serve?

"Quote:"

I completely understand your perspective when it comes to demanding rigorous evidence for such hypotheses—truthfully, I seek that same level of proof myself. However, at this stage, I simply don't have those proofs readily available, nor is it my primary goal to go about convincing others. I personally believe that both God and the created world hold an equal degree of reality, though it is the divine essence that holds a much deeper relevance to our existence.

Let us set aside the pursuit of raw evidence for a moment and instead focus our attention on seeking a sense of logical structure, internal consistency, and fundamental coherence within these ideas.

My only question is this: Is it possible to deceive a man who considers himself spiritually enlightened, leading him to embrace a fraudulent experience that he would eventually swear is the absolute truth?

bluemason3 said:They aren't "scientists," they're "scientism" proponents. Even the guy who came up with the "God helmet" and those specific experiments qualifies his own work, claiming he didn't actually succeed in proving everything can be reduced to those kinds of theories.

Besides, the brain processes all information, including stuff from our immediate surroundings. Does that mean everything we see around us is an illusion? If we pull this "brain-centric" argument to its logical conclusion, we end up with total solipsistic-Matrix subjectivity rather than the naturalist reductionism the skeptics are pushing for.

There's also the issue that spiritual experiences might look identical on the surface while being fundamentally different in substance. For instance, you could dream about Jesus, you could have a weird, unpleasant hallucination caused by a fever, or you could have an incredibly intense vision accompanied by feelings of purity, ecstasy, and piercingly clear consciousness. If you were just describing the visual, you might describe seeing the same figure of Jesus in all three cases.

While some have assumed they are the same based on those superficial similarities, people who have had an NDE and those using hallucinogens say the experiences are nothing alike.

urbanwalker72 said:casualtiger2, I am curious about your perspective on how virtual reality might evolve over the next twenty or thirty years. How difficult will it be to tell the difference between a digital simulation and the world we inhabit?

For the sake of this discussion, let us assume that such advanced VR—an "artificial reality"—will eventually exist to the point where it becomes indistinguishable from the physical reality we know.

How would you rank and evaluate these three distinct layers of existence? There is the material realm, your spiritual dimension, and now this third, virtual one; which of these holds true reality, and how should we weigh their importance?

Furthermore, is it possible for a virtual environment to trigger spiritual experiences so profound that an individual could not distinguish them from their "authentic" encounters?

casualtiger2 said:And just like that, spirituality starts sliding right into the "alternative" lifestyle category. 😢

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Look, we’ve all heard the chatter by now—there are endless studies out there showing that you can actually trigger these intense "spiritual" experiences just by poking at specific centers in the brain. It’s everywhere. You’ve got astronauts floating in the void having these profound moments, people tripping on psychedelics, near-death experiences... it's a whole spectrum of weirdness.
The typical scientific take? They argue that if you can just flip a switch in the brain to make these things happen, then it’s all just neurochemistry. To them, it’s proof there’s nothing "out there," just neurons firing in the dark. Naturally, religious folks look at those kinds of experiments with a massive amount of skepticism.
But honestly? I see it differently. To me, the fact that we can even induce these states suggests we’re sitting on a mountain of knowledge we aren't even aware of—stuff that's buried incredibly deep. If you look at it through the lens of biological evolution, there’s zero survival reason for us to carry around those kinds of heavy, ancient memories, no matter how deep they go.
People who get hit with these induced experiences usually end up totally lost, not knowing what to do with themselves. And let's be real, even when these things hit you out of nowhere, it’s a hell of a thing to process. It isn't easy to carry.
But seriously, since anyone can basically be triggered into this state, how does that prove it's somehow meaningless? How does being able to replicate it mean it doesn't matter?

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Here is one of the oldest examples:

Shamanic drum healing is one of the most ancient techniques out there; experts suggest its roots go back anywhere from 20,000 to 30,000 years. It doesn't surprise me one bit—hearing was one of our earliest developed senses, and according to various traditions, the very creation of the world was tied to sound. Because of that, shamanic drumming is a technique recognized across the entire planet and within countless cultures. Much like color therapy, where every hue carries a specific energy and area of influence, the sound of the drum and its specific rhythms have their own targeted applications.

By using steady, rhythmic drumming, you can shift the frequencies of both the body and the mind. It allows the rational consciousness to quiet down so you can finally listen to that inner voice—that subconscious pull that is so often suppressed in our modern American way of life, yet is precisely where the answers to life's big questions tend to hide. By improvising with rhythm or volume, a shaman can draw attention to major energetic blockages, prompting us to confront and resolve them. Those waves of sound coming from the drum act as both support and the momentum that pushes us forward through the rhythms of life. Through drumming, the shaman communicates with their guides and energies, traveling into the spiritual realm to seek answers or assistance for themselves or their community—whether those needs are moral, practical, or spiritual in nature. The dialogue between the shaman and the drum is just as vital as the connection between the shaman and the group they are working with, as it is an incredibly potent tool for self-work.

Benjamin Taylor6 says:

Shamanic drum healing is one of those ancient techniques that experts say goes all the way back—we're talking 20,000 to 30,000 years! It makes total sense to me. Back in the day, hearing was one of our most vital senses. I've even read traditions where the entire universe was birthed through sound. It’s a global phenomenon; you find drumming rituals in almost every culture on Earth. Just like how color therapy works—where every hue carries its own specific vibe and frequency—the rhythm and pulse of a drum have their own unique power and purpose.

frozengull2 said:One pretty common thing that pops up during meditation is this loss of "body boundaries."
I guess anyone who’s ever tried to quiet their mind has felt it to some degree.
Personally, I drift into that state quite often—so much so that it actually catches me off guard sometimes during my daily life, just while I'm going about my business.
Back in the day, I had to stop everything just to lean into it, but nowadays I can kind of control it to an extent even while I'm doing stuff (you know, like being half-focused on it while multitasking)...
Even though it happens a lot, it isn't exactly easy to "crank it up" on command... to feel it intensely enough.

I’m talking about that sensation where your body sort of "unhooks" itself from your sense of physical size.
The best way I can put it is that our sense of "being" is usually tied to our body, and we’re super aware of where we end and where the rest of the world begins... but once you quiet down and try to "feel" the infinity of the space you're "submerged" in, anyone would have to experience what I'm talking about;
The feeling hits pretty suddenly (but not violently), and if you can manage to "hold onto it" or focus on it, it starts to build up and get more intense.
It feels like your body has suddenly exploded in size!?
Like you don't feel contained by those same old dimensions anymore.
It's honestly hard to explain coherently.
Basically, it’s not that I got bigger, it’s more like I became tiny inside myself... and it’s like my hands, legs (every single part) feel miles away... like my hands are meters away from my head or my "center."
Like I'm standing dozens of feet above my own limbs, yet at the exact same time, I'm right where I am!?
Such a weird thing to describe; this simultaneous shrinking and expanding within the body (I know it sounds stupid, but anyone who's been there knows exactly what I mean).
As soon as the sensation hits, if you get startled and try to "shake it off," it vanishes.
It comes easily to me, but it took a bit of "practice" to learn how to hold it and make it stronger.
Realistically, you can't just "do it" or keep it going whenever you want.
You have to settle down and stay focused the right way, and the scale of the experience can really trip you out; how the body starts "being" scattered over miles of space with this hard-to-explain feeling of "transparently-tactile infinite smallness"!? (not gonna get into all the details now).
It’s not for the faint of heart because it’s so weird and literally outside the frame of "normal everyday existence"... though personally, regardless of how big it got, I never had any issues (or any real fear) when I was "diving into" it.
Still (I gotta say), over time, this sensation started popping up spontaneously for no reason at all during regular situations.
Like, out of nowhere, it just hits me.
Especially if I'm really inspired by something totally unrelated to daily life and I start drifting off into my thoughts.
But it's easy to "switch off" since, like I said, you have to be calm and zero in on the sensation for it to escalate.
If you don't... the whole thing just dies down fast.
I should also mention that I experienced this for the first time completely by accident when I was a little kid and had a massive fever one time.
It wasn't super intense back then, but it was "that thing I'm talking about," and I felt it clearly—as a "state" that I couldn't make any sense of or explain to myself at the time.
It was like something stepping outside the bounds of anything I’d ever felt before!
Later, when I started experiencing this state spontaneously during moments of inner stillness, I recognized it immediately as "that thing that happened to me back then."

Anyone who has experienced this intensely enough instinctively "knows" that our being (our framework, our "where we start and where we end"... our embodiment as such) is something that goes way beyond the limits of the body, and there’s no way for someone who has lived it to deny that "certainty" or try to measure it or record it in any material way... outside the realm of personal experience.
You just have to live it to get it.
Everything I just went through—all those conclusions I pulled from that experience—doesn't need some deep dive or a manual to explain it.
You just... you just know. You become certain of it instinctively.

ps.
I also want to make one thing clear: this has absolutely nothing to do with those "experiences" people try to fake nowadays using high-tech gadgets. You know the drill—one person wears a GoPro on their head, another puts on some 3D glasses, and then they touch each other to trick someone into feeling this fake "sensory connection" or like they're somewhere far away at the same time.
That's just a cheap illusion. It’s a manufactured sense of being "connected" to what you're seeing, but it doesn't break out of the usual boundaries of everyday reality, no matter how much it might mess with your brain.
That isn't it.

ps.
I want to point out that this experience has absolutely nothing to do with those "experiences" they try to manufacture nowadays using modern tech—you know, where one person wears a camera on their head and another wears 3D glasses, and by touching the person with the camera, they create this fake sensation of "feeling touch/being somewhere else" for the person in the glasses.
It just creates a hollow illusion of identifying with what you're "seeing," and it’s nothing that breaks through the fabric of everyday existence (even if it manages to trip the brain up a bit).
That's not it.

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:For me, my first out-of-body experience happened while I was burning up with a fever back in elementary school, and then later, during a near-death experience where reality just seemed to split into two separate worlds.
That’s actually what drove me to dive into psychology, then neurocognitive sciences, and eventually quantum physics. For years, I tried to hunt for answers in hard science while basically running away from spirituality, but I just couldn't make sense of those experiences—especially when things reached a breaking point where I truly dissolved into everything and stopped seeing myself as a separate entity.
The weird part? My experiences weren't even triggered by contemplation or meditation, which isn't even something I started doing until about a year and a half ago.

ps.
I want to point out that this experience has absolutely nothing to do with those "experiences" they try to manufacture nowadays using modern tech—you know, where one person wears a camera on their head and another wears 3D glasses, and by touching the person with the camera, they create this fake sensation of "feeling touch/being somewhere else" for the person in the glasses.
It just creates a hollow illusion of identifying with what you're "seeing," and it’s nothing that breaks through the fabric of everyday existence (even if it manages to trip the brain up a bit).
That's not it.

That’s why these experiment-induced experiences are so fascinating to me; I think it’s all the same stuff, except the person going through it has no clue what to do with it, especially since they know they're just part of an experiment.
Anyway, like I said in my first post, I really think these experiments prove that there's so much more hidden inside us than just our perception of the material world—we just aren't aware of it until some kind of trigger kicks it off, or, obviously, if we practice some kind of spiritual discipline.

wearyowl29 said:I’ve come to believe that all induced experiences are strictly limited—sort of like they're custom-tailored, where we only receive the exact amount and type of content our system can actually handle.
I actually had one of those moments once! I was feeling brave and really wanted to push further, trying to swing open more of my "inner doors," but I was met with such a polite, firm rejection that I can still feel the impact today. It was incredibly striking...😲
Honestly, if someone else had gone through what I did, they might have ended up in a psychiatric ward or just lost their mind entirely. It could have been a total nightmare.

Looking back on it now, though? I realize it was actually exactly what I needed.

analoghawk13 said:Yeah, it’s actually pretty wild when you think about how hallucinogens even work. It’s not like they’re handing us some external gift; they just strip back the curtain on what's already inside us, guiding us back to our own center.

Take me, for instance. I wouldn't personally label a single trip as a "spiritual experience"—the trip itself isn't spiritual.
I think the technical term is more like "altered states of consciousness," or something along those lines.
Think about it: maybe the brain just starts filtering things differently. Usually, half our synapses are busy dampening things down—basically suppressing associations.
So, these altered states might just allow for freer, more distant, or looser connections to happen.
(Kind of like how social norms act as a trained filter for how we associate ideas.)

The whole "spiritual" side of things only kicks in later, when you start making sense of those associations—when you interpret them and find a connection. It’s a lot like dreaming. These experiences can lead you to discover a new sense of meaning, but that meaning isn't tucked away inside the trip itself; it lives out in the actual world.
These moments just point toward the real meaning within ourselves and the world around us.
(Which implies you can reach that same meaning without any help at all.)

Maybe that's the divide: some people live in a world of genuine meaning, while others live in a world of strictly trained, filtering conventions.

---
Side note. There was this clinical psychology experiment involving a piece of text.
If you slice off the top third of every letter, people can still read it just fine.
But if you slice off the top *two-thirds*, regular people are stuck, whereas people on LSD can read it perfectly fluently.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:As for me, I've been stuck in this manic loop of babbling nonsense for about a year now. It hits me like this sudden, uncontrollable urge. I try to give myself some breathing room when there's nobody around to hear me—mostly because I don't want anyone calling 911 only to have some EMTs show up instead of actual nurses.😢😲😁

The whole thing is just a reflection of the madness I see swirling around me.

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Look, we’ve all heard the chatter by now—there are endless studies out there showing that you can actually trigger these intense "spiritual" experiences just by poking at specific centers in the brain. It’s everywhere. You’ve got astronauts floating in the void having these profound moments, people tripping on psychedelics, near-death experiences... it's a whole spectrum of weirdness.
The typical scientific take? They argue that if you can just flip a switch in the brain to make these things happen, then it’s all just neurochemistry. To them, it’s proof there’s nothing "out there," just neurons firing in the dark. Naturally, religious folks look at those kinds of experiments with a massive amount of skepticism.
But honestly? I see it differently. To me, the fact that we can even induce these states suggests we’re sitting on a mountain of knowledge we aren't even aware of—stuff that's buried incredibly deep. If you look at it through the lens of biological evolution, there’s zero survival reason for us to carry around those kinds of heavy, ancient memories, no matter how deep they go.
People who get hit with these induced experiences usually end up totally lost, not knowing what to do with themselves. And let's be real, even when these things hit you out of nowhere, it’s a hell of a thing to process. It isn't easy to carry.
But seriously, since anyone can basically be triggered into this state, how does that prove it's somehow meaningless? How does being able to replicate it mean it doesn't matter?

nimblewolf11 said:hehehe

Honestly, it's no wonder! Your head is probably just totally overloaded with all those stressful thoughts you're carrying around.
So—how do you feel once you finally get it all out? ;-)