Induced spiritual experiences

Paul Rogers94 said:I honestly don't know what you're trying to achieve with this question—it's either a total lack of comprehension or you're just trolling at this point. Plenty of people have taken much higher doses than you ever will and see absolutely nothing. You aren't "doing" anything with it... spiritual experiences can't be forced. You can't earn them, you can't manufacture them, and there isn't anything you need to "do" about it because it's entirely a matter of grace (which requires maturity, by the way). It happens, that's the answer. And Enchantress, you can't hold onto them—not spiritual experiences, not anything. You can't perform some ritual to recreate the exact same feeling; all those techniques are essentially useless.

I actually think it's the opposite, which is why setting and mindset are so critical. If your mind is preoccupied with something, you'll hallucinate it. Hallucinogens definitely ramp up suggestibility.

In my experience, the mental obsession, expectations, and how a session is steered essentially define the trip. It's not some grand "grace"; it's more like a direct provocation.

For example, back when I was deep into studying Buddhist practices and then took LSD, I would consciously try to perform those specific meditations while tripping (unless the dose was so high that I couldn't even function). Every single experience felt incredibly meditative and tied directly to those theories and practices. Outside of that context, the trips just revolve around whatever happens to be on my mind at the time.

The same logic applies to trance states induced by non-chemical methods.

It's just a glorified psychological game.

bluemason3 said:There are several key differences here. A friend of mine went through a psychotic episode—what some call a "Kundalini experience"—following an incredibly intense yoga practice. It’s not quite the same as the typical spiritual experiences he had before, nor is it like the ones I've personally had. There is an entire spectrum of psychological and physiological symptoms that set them apart.
Psychotic experiences can sometimes be categorized as spiritual ones—or at least, they’re perceived that way by people prone to that kind of interpretation. That said, labeling them as such doesn't quite capture the full spectrum of what people call "spiritual experiences."

Cocaine and amphetamines aren't psychedelics. 😛

I don't quite follow. If you want my take on this whole intelligence thing, just say the word. 🤔

Cocaine and amphetamines are just party favors for sex and entertainment—they have zero connection to spiritual experiences. All they do is leave you psychologically addicted and mentally stunted in the long run, aside from that initial stage where you feel extremely euphoric, which is where the psychosis comes in. The difference is that during a psychotic episode, you lose control; you become completely consumed by the episode until it becomes your only reality. I know someone who suffers from frequent psychotic breaks, and he only ever reaches out to grab coffee with me when he's in that state. His terminology isn't much different from some "charismatic" leader at a Pentecostal revival meeting. Meanwhile, an advanced yogi or a true mystic doesn't just cling to a single experience... it's hard to find the right words without sounding paradoxical, but either way, you lose your grip.

bluemason3 said:I actually think it's the opposite, which is why setting and mindset are so critical. If your mind is preoccupied with something, you'll hallucinate it. Hallucinogens definitely ramp up suggestibility.

In my experience, the mental obsession, expectations, and how a session is steered essentially define the trip. It's not some grand "grace"; it's more like a direct provocation.

For example, back when I was deep into studying Buddhist practices and then took LSD, I would consciously try to perform those specific meditations while tripping (unless the dose was so high that I couldn't even function). Every single experience felt incredibly meditative and tied directly to those theories and practices. Outside of that context, the trips just revolve around whatever happens to be on my mind at the time.

The same logic applies to trance states induced by non-chemical methods.

It's just a glorified psychological game.

This is interesting. I gave up on trying to steer psychedelics very early on because, frankly, it feels like a violation—a total lack of respect for the substance. Respecting the substance is far more vital than any attempt at direction or setting (expectations are everything here). Besides, whenever I stop trying to control the trip, I receive much more than I could ever imagine or intentionally direct. With mushrooms, this is especially true; you often have a guide showing you entire universes, initiating you into occult knowledge and bestowing "graces and blessings"... we all know Ayahuasca (DMT) is seen as female, Peyote as male, and mushrooms lean masculine despite having hermaphroditic elements. Even before the mushrooms pulled me into their worlds, they expected me to recognize them as a distinct entity rather than just an extension of my own higher nature. They kept me in a sort of limbo until I intimately acknowledged them as an independent being; only then would they lead me into deeper knowledge, and for every subsequent step, they required a kind of intimate consent. Without it, they wouldn't go any further. Still, I think LSD is the type of psychedelic that doesn't mind being steered, whereas mushrooms only comply in certain phases and for specific purposes, and only with their permission and instructions. Otherwise, the mushroom—in its role as a guide—likes to smoke and has a bizarre sense of humor, behaving quite playfully... it has a distinct personality. By steering, you simply get what you asked for (a hyped-up psychological game)... that attempt at control is fundamentally incompatible with the essence of taking psychedelics, which is—to phrase it simply—"stepping out of your comfort zone." And I'm not convinced that obsessively forcing an intention is a good path; once you decide exactly what state you want to achieve, you've already lost. You can't force spiritual experiences; they manifest on their own once you finally stop trying so hard.

bluemason3 said:I’m not talking about how psychiatric diagnosis relies on subjective symptom checks since we don't have blood tests for it, nor am I critiquing old-school psychiatric methods from decades ago.

This specific experiment doesn't deny that actual psychiatric disorders, psychoses, or hallucinations exist, nor does it question their connection to experiences triggered by hallucinogens.

I just don't see how that's relevant here.

The point is—if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. In other words, if you’re looking for a reason to pathologize every human experience that falls outside the standard work-home-pub routine, you’ll easily find some DSM code to label it with, even if you haven't actually proven anything.

Quote:Pinky

Paul Rogers94 says: I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with that question, but in this instance, it's either a complete failure to understand or you're just messing around. Plenty of others have taken much more than I have and see nothing at all, so you can't really do anything about that... spiritual experiences can't be forced; you can't earn them, you can't act upon them, and you shouldn't try to, because it's a matter of grace (which, admittedly, requires maturity). It simply happens. That is the answer, and it's Enchantress. You can't hold onto anything, including spiritual experiences, and there's nothing you can do to recreate an identical experience. All those techniques are essentially useless.

When I ask a question, I usually expect an answer. 🙂

I wasn't interested in "holding onto" an experience, nor was I asking about consciously inducing one, and I certainly wasn't looking for lectures on grace or maturity. What I was actually asking is what you *do* with the realization of how the world works—specifically, how that insight has changed your life, or the lives of your family, your community, and so on.

Joseph Bailey41 said:The point is—if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. In other words, if you’re looking for a reason to pathologize every human experience that falls outside the standard work-home-pub routine, you’ll easily find some DSM code to label it with, even if you haven't actually proven anything.

Quote:Pinky

Paul Rogers94 says: I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with that question, but in this instance, it's either a complete failure to understand or you're just messing around. Plenty of others have taken much more than I have and see nothing at all, so you can't really do anything about that... spiritual experiences can't be forced; you can't earn them, you can't act upon them, and you shouldn't try to, because it's a matter of grace (which, admittedly, requires maturity). It simply happens. That is the answer, and it's Enchantress. You can't hold onto anything, including spiritual experiences, and there's nothing you can do to recreate an identical experience. All those techniques are essentially useless.

When I ask a question, I usually expect an answer. 🙂

I wasn't interested in "holding onto" an experience, nor was I asking about consciously inducing one, and I certainly wasn't looking for lectures on grace or maturity. What I was actually asking is what you *do* with the realization of how the world works—specifically, how that insight has changed your life, or the lives of your family, your community, and so on.

Every experience changes you—deep ones change you fundamentally, teaching you how to handle anything life throws at you. Especially when you face an experience that reveals you aren't some grand architect of destiny, but rather someone living under a completely flawed paradigm. You don't just swap it out for a different one—every paradigm is wrong—and you can't even live "intentionally," because life simply unfolds on its own terms. You lose the urge to interfere with events, because fighting them is just resisting the inevitable. If I had to boil it down to a formula: stop resisting and stop forcing. Stop chasing fantasies that promise fulfillment or joy, and stop trying to set conditions for them... because there’s nothing there.

Got some different experiences, vibes, movies... basically asking which ones are actually, let's say, "real."
The only rule is—keep it chill, I'm not looking for anything crazy.

Paul Rogers94 said:Every experience changes you—deep ones change you fundamentally, teaching you how to handle anything life throws at you. Especially when you face an experience that reveals you aren't some grand architect of destiny, but rather someone living under a completely flawed paradigm. You don't just swap it out for a different one—every paradigm is wrong—and you can't even live "intentionally," because life simply unfolds on its own terms. You lose the urge to interfere with events, because fighting them is just resisting the inevitable. If I had to boil it down to a formula: stop resisting and stop forcing. Stop chasing fantasies that promise fulfillment or joy, and stop trying to set conditions for them... because there’s nothing there.

It looks like our paths are heading in completely different directions, so there isn't much point in me trying to respond to that. Good luck with whatever it is you're (not) doing, and thanks for setting an example that encourages us all to stay away from psychoactive substances.☕

Joseph Bailey41 said:It looks like our paths are heading in completely different directions, so there isn't much point in me trying to respond to that. Good luck with whatever it is you're (not) doing, and thanks for setting an example that encourages us all to stay away from psychoactive substances.☕

There aren't even "paths" to compare—I'm not on some journey, I'm not looking for companions, and I'm certainly not driven by any specific set of beliefs. I can go wherever I want, so comparing directions is pointless. Likewise, trying to interpret experiences is a fool's errand; they simply are what they are. You shouldn't add anything to them or take anything away. The moment you try to "explain" or "interpret" an experience, you've corrupted and cheapened it. By its very nature, any authentic spiritual experience is incomprehensible to the rational mind—it's unspeakable. If it could be explained, it wouldn't be authentic. Sure, you can share it with someone receptive to gain clarity, but true interpretation? Impossible... and harmful.

Paul Rogers94 said:There aren't even "paths" to compare—I'm not on some journey, I'm not looking for companions, and I'm certainly not driven by any specific set of beliefs. I can go wherever I want, so comparing directions is pointless. Likewise, trying to interpret experiences is a fool's errand; they simply are what they are. You shouldn't add anything to them or take anything away. The moment you try to "explain" or "interpret" an experience, you've corrupted and cheapened it. By its very nature, any authentic spiritual experience is incomprehensible to the rational mind—it's unspeakable. If it could be explained, it wouldn't be authentic. Sure, you can share it with someone receptive to gain clarity, but true interpretation? Impossible... and harmful.

I actually find a lot of value in sharing experiences, especially with people who are a few steps ahead of where I am. I once asked a practitioner of Northern traditions living in San Francisco for advice on how to perform a specific ritual (soul retrieval). She gave me some guidance but also pointed out how vital it is to set aside dedicated time for integrating that experience—and mentioned that having a support network helps, too. She was spot on; it took me several months just to make sense of what had happened. Since then, I’ve actually scaled back my practices a bit, just to give everything enough breathing room to settle.

In my view, experiences don't carry much weight unless you can actually "embody" them—meaning you apply those insights to your daily life and pass what you've learned on to those who might need it, like people who are a few steps behind you. That approach is pretty much the opposite of what you're describing, which is why I suggested we're on different paths. I wanted to say that without being overly blunt about our differences.

Look, I’ve got nothing but respect for the raw knowledge and experiences shared here regarding LSD, mushrooms, and especially ibogaine. I’ve done my fair share of deep dives into the research myself. But honestly? It’s a whole different ballgame when you actually step out of the trip and back into the real world—dealing with the grind of everyday life without any external substances to lean on. That’s where the real work happens: integrating everything so it becomes part of who you are. At the end of the day, we all have our own built-in pharmacy right inside us, completely natural.

It’s honestly such a shame that we don't have some kind of legitimate, natural wellness clinic somewhere in the States that would legally allow people to pursue healing and self-growth through these methods. From what I’ve gathered, plenty of folks have managed to kick heroin for good without a massive struggle after going through ibogaine treatment.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I actually find a lot of value in sharing experiences, especially with people who are a few steps ahead of where I am. I once asked a practitioner of Northern traditions living in San Francisco for advice on how to perform a specific ritual (soul retrieval). She gave me some guidance but also pointed out how vital it is to set aside dedicated time for integrating that experience—and mentioned that having a support network helps, too. She was spot on; it took me several months just to make sense of what had happened. Since then, I’ve actually scaled back my practices a bit, just to give everything enough breathing room to settle.

In my view, experiences don't carry much weight unless you can actually "embody" them—meaning you apply those insights to your daily life and pass what you've learned on to those who might need it, like people who are a few steps behind you. That approach is pretty much the opposite of what you're describing, which is why I suggested we're on different paths. I wanted to say that without being overly blunt about our differences.

Sure, there's definitely value in communicating an experience, but interpreting it requires someone who is—let's say—further along the path than you are. They have to validate it. Most people encounter the truth first, and then they go looking for a guru later just to get that validation.

Maria Parker77 said:Look, I’ve got nothing but respect for the raw knowledge and experiences shared here regarding LSD, mushrooms, and especially ibogaine. I’ve done my fair share of deep dives into the research myself. But honestly? It’s a whole different ballgame when you actually step out of the trip and back into the real world—dealing with the grind of everyday life without any external substances to lean on. That’s where the real work happens: integrating everything so it becomes part of who you are. At the end of the day, we all have our own built-in pharmacy right inside us, completely natural.

It’s honestly such a shame that we don't have some kind of legitimate, natural wellness clinic somewhere in the States that would legally allow people to pursue healing and self-growth through these methods. From what I’ve gathered, plenty of folks have managed to kick heroin for good without a massive struggle after going through ibogaine treatment.

There's actually a little trick to "experiencing" these plants without physically ingesting them. You start with medicinal herbs that are familiar and easy to find in nature... things like dandelion, plantain, or sage (which is particularly special because of its cleansing properties). You build a connection with the spirit of the plant by drinking teas, burning incense, sitting near it, observing it, smelling it, or just reading about it. Once you get a feel for that, you can try "summoning" it while you're in a relaxed state—deep breathing, maybe meditating, or listening to some drum music... whatever works for you. You absorb its essence, "talk" to it, ask it for guidance, and so on. Once you master that technique, you can move on to the other things you've read about online. Usually, when people encounter iboga, it manifests as an African man.

Interesting. I’ve sat through a few workshops myself, though nothing super deep. Look, the process looks solid enough—I can see the quality there—but honestly? I just don't have the drive for this kind of thing. If I could get my hands on some ibogaine, now that would be a calling. But regarding what's actually out there right now? I grabbed coffee with this guy in Chicago recently, and he just didn't blow me away. Maybe a better opportunity will pop up down the road, or maybe I'll just end up booking a session with him anyway. He’s a decent enough dude, but there’s just something about him that rubs me the wrong way.

Maria Parker77 said:Interesting. I’ve sat through a few workshops myself, though nothing super deep. Look, the process looks solid enough—I can see the quality there—but honestly? I just don't have the drive for this kind of thing. If I could get my hands on some ibogaine, now that would be a calling. But regarding what's actually out there right now? I grabbed coffee with this guy in Chicago recently, and he just didn't blow me away. Maybe a better opportunity will pop up down the road, or maybe I'll just end up booking a session with him anyway. He’s a decent enough dude, but there’s just something about him that rubs me the wrong way.

In cases like this, I think it's best to trust that first gut feeling. I've heard stories about all kinds of shady business, even involving Ayam, but just because someone calls themselves a shaman doesn't mean they actually follow an ethical code.