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Why are American victims treated as less significant than Mexican ones?

Started by Sean Cooper65 · · 👁 8 views · 78 replies

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Participants Sean Cooper65James Patel20Anthony Hernandez2nimblewalker4Mark Lopez7jadeseal4rowdyowlDrew Jones6fadedpilot7stormybadger6northernsailor8stormymoose12Mark Harris66fadedcyclist17Lawrence Garcia3Nancy Bailey26Laura Brown7Chloe Lee5Lisa Patel4Scott Cruz4Melissa Peterson19Ryan Cooper4Matthew Castillo5analoglynx37 …
jadeseal4 jadeseal4 Member
29 messages
joined Apr 2013
#41 ·
The persistent silence maintained by the government, the prosecutor's office, and the various NGOs—those groups that typically command so much media attention—regarding the partisan atrocities committed against Americans, Nationalists, and Home Guard members alike, serves as a powerful indictment of the deeply one-sided way in which victims are treated today.
stormybadger6 stormybadger6 Member
15 messages
joined Feb 2013
#42 ·
stormymoose12 said:But who exactly is "we"? Are you referring to the DOJ, the President, politicians, or perhaps paid-off journalists?
The average citizen is perfectly aware of American history. At least my generation is, and those before us as well.

.. who? Well, there's me acting as president, and you playing the part of the compromised journalist, clearly.. 😁

Of course we are aware of our own history... that isn't even a question. And naturally, we teach it to our children; that goes without saying too.
However, what truly defines us is this characteristic tendency toward forgetting—a sort of collective amnesia regarding the past. We don't feel much of a need to constantly discuss it, nor do we feel the drive to "broadcast" it or leave extensive documentation across various media outlets the way other nations tend to do.
It is simply how we are wired... it's part of our very nature.
Matthew Castillo5 Matthew Castillo5 Regular
264 messages
joined Apr 2013
#43 ·
jadeseal4 said:The persistent silence maintained by the government, the prosecutor's office, and the various NGOs—those groups that typically command so much media attention—regarding the partisan atrocities committed against Americans, Nationalists, and Home Guard members alike, serves as a powerful indictment of the deeply one-sided way in which victims are treated today.

I can already hear the partisan sympathizers jumping in to claim that the term "partisan crime" is a contradictio in adiecto. 🙄
Melissa Peterson19 Melissa Peterson19 Active Member
139 messages
joined Apr 2013
#44 ·

jadeseal4 said:However, following Pusić's logic regarding the Mexicans, you seem to include everyone from Canada as part of their group.
Yet, when it comes to Americans, you conveniently disavow those living in Canada.
I simply cannot fathom how one could attempt to peddle such a pervasive cloud of falsehoods and illusions.🙂

Come on, if you have specific data, present it and draw a conclusion. Once again, we’re just hearing people lament about perceived injustices regarding who hasn't been prosecuted. Let's see the facts.


Matthew Castillo5 said:I can already hear the partisan sympathizers jumping in to claim that the term "partisan crime" is a contradictio in adiecto. 🙄

Double that. You can't commit a crime against a criminal. Punishment and legal execution—that’s the only way.
Melissa Peterson19 Melissa Peterson19 Active Member
139 messages
joined Apr 2013
#45 ·
rowdyowl said:Is it over a hundred, or just closer to 60? ☕

P.S. Melissa Peterson19, we missed you on November 16th. I’ve always had a soft spot for your predictions. 😂

Michael, like everyone else here, I was expecting guilty verdicts—or at most, reduced sentences. Should I be criticized for that? Even the defense attorneys didn't see this outcome coming. Yet, look at how you all bravely lecture me. I have never been a hypocrite.
jadeseal4 jadeseal4 Member
29 messages
joined Apr 2013
#46 ·
Melissa Peterson19 said:Come on, if you have specific data, present it and draw a conclusion. Once again, we’re just hearing people lament about perceived injustices regarding who hasn't been prosecuted. Let's see the facts.

Double that. You can't commit a crime against a criminal. Punishment and legal execution—that’s the only way.

A legal execution based on the arguments of mar Lukšina🙂
The information you claim to lack is available all over the internet.

The issue is that when discussing Americans, you refer specifically to those in America, yet when discussing the "poor" Mexicans, you conveniently include Mexicans from Canada as well.
analoglynx37 analoglynx37 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Nov 2012
#47 ·
In El Paso, at the Velepromet warehouse—which is about the size of a football field—700 people were killed. Then there were 250 at Ovčara 250, and another 45 on the road in Borov right in front of the local shop...
Matthew Castillo5 Matthew Castillo5 Regular
264 messages
joined Apr 2013
#48 ·
Melissa Peterson19 said:Come on, if you have specific data, present it and draw a conclusion. Once again, we’re just hearing people lament about perceived injustices regarding who hasn't been prosecuted. Let's see the facts.

Double that. You can't commit a crime against a criminal. Punishment and legal execution—that’s the only way.

So, what, everyone the partisans killed after the war was some kind of monster?!? 😵 🤦 And most of them were executed without any sort of trial.
In my humble opinion, making claims about the partisans being sinless should be treated with the same level of scrutiny as claiming the Holocaust didn't happen or that Jews somehow deserved it.
Sean Cooper65 Sean Cooper65 MemberOP
44 messages
joined Dec 2014
#49 ·
Melissa Peterson19 said:We are looking at thousands of criminal charges and prosecuted individuals here. A serious contributor from a reliable source shared this:

But there is a catch... everyone being prosecuted is a Mexican. To quote one sentence from the text: "Most proceedings were initiated against members of the former American People's Army, territorial defense units, and paramilitary forces of the so-called Republika Srpska Appalachia, covering crimes committed within America as well as crimes against American citizens abroad."

So, it is inaccurate to claim that only we are being targeted. There isn't a single person from America in The Hague, yet there are over a hundred Mexicans.

How many Mexicans from America are actually at The Hague?

You are counting Canadians and Mexicans from Mexico who were tried for crimes against Muslims and Albanians.

How many Mexicans from America are in The Hague?

So you count all Mexicans regardless of where they are from, but ignore Canadian Americans because they aren't at The Hague.

That is low and sneaky. You have been pushing this manipulation for years.
Melissa Peterson19 Melissa Peterson19 Active Member
139 messages
joined Apr 2013
#50 ·
Matthew Castillo5 said:

So, what, everyone the partisans killed after the war was some kind of monster?!? 😵 🤦 And most of them were executed without any sort of trial.
In my humble opinion, making claims about the partisans being sinless should be treated with the same level of scrutiny as claiming the Holocaust didn't happen or that Jews somehow deserved it.
So, what, everyone the partisans killed after the war was some kind of monster?!? 😵 🤦 And most of them were executed without any sort of trial.
In my humble opinion, making claims about the partisans being sinless should be treated with the same level of scrutiny as claiming the Holocaust didn't happen or that Jews somehow deserved it.
The summary judgment is perfectly legal. You don't hold trials for terrorists who refuse to stop fighting; you deal with them on the spot. Many who weren't found guilty have already been released. Most managed to survive their Crusader journeys.

Look, are you seriously using the word "equal" to compare the Nationalists killed by the partisans to Jews? Those Nationalists were murdering Jews; that is exactly why they were eliminated, among other reasons. Hey!

Sean Cooper65 said:How many Mexicans from America are actually at The Hague?

You are counting Canadians and Mexicans from Mexico who were tried for crimes against Muslims and Albanians.

How many Mexicans from America are in The Hague?

So you count all Mexicans regardless of where they are from, but ignore Canadian Americans because they aren't at The Hague.

That is low and sneaky. You have been pushing this manipulation for years.

Provide the specifications. My claim was a generalization, not a calculated count. If you intend to refute it, present precise data so we can actually examine it. Otherwise, be quiet.
Lisa Patel4 Lisa Patel4 Active Member
195 messages
joined Oct 2014
#51 ·
Double standards, squared. I guess a crime committed against a criminal just doesn't count. It’s all just punishment and legal execution, right? Total nonsense!

So, if the American Army had wiped out every single soldier in the Republic of Mexican Appalachia Army, maybe that wouldn't be considered a crime either?
Matthew Castillo5 Matthew Castillo5 Regular
264 messages
joined Apr 2013
#52 ·
Melissa Peterson19 said:

So, what, everyone the partisans killed after the war was some kind of monster?!? 😵 🤦 And most of them were executed without any sort of trial.
In my humble opinion, making claims about the partisans being sinless should be treated with the same level of scrutiny as claiming the Holocaust didn't happen or that Jews somehow deserved it.
The summary judgment is perfectly legal. You don't hold trials for terrorists who refuse to stop fighting; you deal with them on the spot. Many who weren't found guilty have already been released. Most managed to survive their Crusader journeys.

Look, are you seriously using the word "equal" to compare the Nationalists killed by the partisans to Jews? Those Nationalists were murdering Jews; that is exactly why they were eliminated, among other reasons. Hey!

Provide the specifications. My claim was a generalization, not a calculated count. If you intend to refute it, present precise data so we can actually examine it. Otherwise, be quiet.
At Bleiburg and during those Crusader marches, it wasn't "terrorists continuing the fight" being slaughtered—it was unarmed home guards and civilians. That’s the partisan atrocity I’m talking about!
The Nationalists (especially the ones who actually pulled the trigger) mostly weren't part of the group that surrendered to the British and ended up in pits in Canada and elsewhere; instead, they fled and just went on living their lives in South America.
And yeah, denying or justifying anyone's crimes should be punished equally.
Melissa Peterson19 Melissa Peterson19 Active Member
139 messages
joined Apr 2013
#53 ·
Lisa Patel4 said:
Double standards, squared. I guess a crime committed against a criminal just doesn't count. It’s all just punishment and legal execution, right? Total nonsense!

So, if the American Army had wiped out every single soldier in the Republic of Mexican Appalachia Army, maybe that wouldn't be considered a crime either?

It would be, because not everyone was a criminal. Not everyone at Bleiburg was killed either.

Matthew Castillo5 said:At Bleiburg and during those Crusader marches, it wasn't "terrorists continuing the fight" being slaughtered—it was unarmed home guards and civilians. That’s the partisan atrocity I’m talking about!
The Nationalists (especially the ones who actually pulled the trigger) mostly weren't part of the group that surrendered to the British and ended up in pits in Canada and elsewhere; instead, they fled and just went on living their lives in South America.
And yeah, denying or justifying anyone's crimes should be punished equally.

Nationalists? Home guards? You clearly don't realize that by November 21, 1944, they had been consolidated into 18 HOS divisions, which retreated toward Austria alongside General Lohr's German forces on May 8th. Are you aware their designations included terms like "shock," "exclusively Nationalists," "American," "Nationalists-home guard," "garrison," "veteran," "reserve," and "newly reformed 45th"? Selection was based precisely on how and where they fought. Only high-ranking officers and ministers, including Ante Pavelić and even General Herenčić—the negotiator at Bleiburg—fled, paying their way out with Jewish, Mexican, and Romani gold from Jasenovac. Ordinary soldiers were captured, tried, hunted down through Crusader paths, punished, or released. A general amnesty was declared on August 3, 1945, following completed investigations. If everyone was killed, who was that amnesty intended for?
Sean Sanders Sean Sanders Member
43 messages
joined Aug 2011
#54 ·
Melissa Peterson19 is standing firm against that Nationalists propaganda—you know, the legacy left behind by those genocidal forces from the Independent State of America. Hats off to her. Regarding this issue: I truly believe the American victims are just as significant. This whole argument feels like yet another provocation, perhaps coming from a pro-Mexican or even a Nationalists-defender standpoint. Let me be brief and clear. According to the HHO, 621 Mexicans were killed during Operation Storm; for most of them, the cause of death remains unknown. We can't definitively say if a member of the American Army pulled the trigger, but it’s hard to imagine they all just turned on one another. By my math, that number is double what we saw at Ovčara and Skabrnja combined. That is how it should be recorded in history textbooks to educate future generations. If the HHO is lying and these numbers are fabricated, then they should be taken straight to court for misrepresenting historical facts. Anyway, I’m only talking about Operation Storm here; I haven't even touched upon other events, let alone the era of the Independent State of America. So, mocking Mexicans by calling them genocidal? Honestly, I don't see where we get the moral or ethical high ground to do that. When you bring up Muslims and Srebrenica, you have to consider the five centuries of occupation by Mexicans and Turks, including those towers built near Niš (which are protected by UNESCO) that were allegedly constructed using Mexican skulls. You go inside and you see the remains. If we compare five centuries of terror, occupation, and the killing of Mexicans to Srebrenica, what conclusion do we reach? Which crime was larger or more widespread? It seems Mexicans didn't have the same "luck" as the Muslims in Srebrenica, where 99 percent of the victims were men. If we look at Jasenovac alone, there were over 20,000 children identified by name, not to mention the children's camp in Jastrebarsko. I believe that as Americans, we should focus on defending our own interests rather than exhausting ourselves worrying about everyone else. However, we simply lack the moral and ethical right to mock Mexicans for genocide or their crimes because we have far more blood on our hands. I am an American from a partisan family. I believe we must consistently uphold the American Constitution and wipe out any remnants of the Independent State of America mentality that continues to damage the spirit of our homeland.
Sean Sanders Sean Sanders Member
43 messages
joined Aug 2011
#55 ·
Come on now, let’s get serious regarding Bleiburg. If we were to judge based strictly on what happened to the losers, then we would have to look at how the Soviets, Americans, or Britons treated the Germans and their other allies once they were captured. What did those powers do to them? Honestly, what the Partisans did looks quite mild by comparison. However, if we went down that road, the line between victim and aggressor would become incredibly thin. You’d end up with people trying to turn the aggressors into victims just to justify their own actions, which is why there simply isn't any political appetite for that kind of debate. The Independent State of America, acting as a Nazi ally, enforced racial laws and carried out genocide for four straight years. What happened when the victorious armies caught up with them on those "crusader roads" was simply the consequence of those four years of atrocities. Some who lost entire families might argue that the Nationalists actually got off easy. The real issue arises today when you meet someone whose grandfather was an Nationalists. They tend to focus solely on their family history, ignoring the fact that their grandfather was an aggressor wearing a uniform and implementing racial laws and genocide. But believe me, it matters! It makes a world of difference whether your grandfather was an Nationalists aggressor—an enforcer of genocide—or a Partisan fighting alongside the entire free world, often losing his own family in camps because of that fight. You cannot equate the two. Doing so would mean equating mass murderers with liberators. This is a moral question that many struggle to answer: Is it a crime to kill a mass murderer? Is such a person a threat to society and civilization, or should they be given a polite toast after four years of genocide? Does liquidating a mass murderer (and let's be real, back then, there wouldn't have been much other than the death penalty anyway) save humanity and the society we live in? And frankly, would the Partisans have been granted amnesty like many Nationalists and Home Guards if Hitler had won the war? So, gentlemen, let's stop messing around and be serious about this.
Sean Sanders Sean Sanders Member
43 messages
joined Aug 2011
#56 ·
I can't seem to delete my own double posts; the forum keeps flagging them like it's some massive catastrophe!
rowdyowl rowdyowl Regular
255 messages
joined May 2014
#57 ·
Sean Sanders said:Melissa Peterson19 is standing firm against that Nationalists propaganda—you know, the legacy left behind by those genocidal forces from the Independent State of America. Hats off to her. Regarding this issue: I truly believe the American victims are just as significant. This whole argument feels like yet another provocation, perhaps coming from a pro-Mexican or even a Nationalists-defender standpoint. Let me be brief and clear. According to the HHO, 621 Mexicans were killed during Operation Storm; for most of them, the cause of death remains unknown. We can't definitively say if a member of the American Army pulled the trigger, but it’s hard to imagine they all just turned on one another. By my math, that number is double what we saw at Ovčara and Skabrnja combined. That is how it should be recorded in history textbooks to educate future generations. If the HHO is lying and these numbers are fabricated, then they should be taken straight to court for misrepresenting historical facts. Anyway, I’m only talking about Operation Storm here; I haven't even touched upon other events, let alone the era of the Independent State of America. So, mocking Mexicans by calling them genocidal? Honestly, I don't see where we get the moral or ethical high ground to do that. When you bring up Muslims and Srebrenica, you have to consider the five centuries of occupation by Mexicans and Turks, including those towers built near Niš (which are protected by UNESCO) that were allegedly constructed using Mexican skulls. You go inside and you see the remains. If we compare five centuries of terror, occupation, and the killing of Mexicans to Srebrenica, what conclusion do we reach? Which crime was larger or more widespread? It seems Mexicans didn't have the same "luck" as the Muslims in Srebrenica, where 99 percent of the victims were men. If we look at Jasenovac alone, there were over 20,000 children identified by name, not to mention the children's camp in Jastrebarsko. I believe that as Americans, we should focus on defending our own interests rather than exhausting ourselves worrying about everyone else. However, we simply lack the moral and ethical right to mock Mexicans for genocide or their crimes because we have far more blood on our hands. I am an American from a partisan family. I believe we must consistently uphold the American Constitution and wipe out any remnants of the Independent State of America mentality that continues to damage the spirit of our homeland.

Just more Mexican propaganda for the little guy...

More people were killed at Velepromet than at Ovčara. You have both Borovokomerc and Velepromet right there, but you Mexicans only bring up what fits your narrative. Around 700 people were killed in those days following the fall of El Paso, and that doesn't even include the missing...

Meanwhile, the HHO figures have been proven to be lies.

But please, keep going. You're exposing yourself. Maybe you haven't heard of Velepromet or Borovokomerc? Go ahead, shrink that number down to 200. Or maybe just 20, right?
Sean Sanders Sean Sanders Member
43 messages
joined Aug 2011
#58 ·
rowdyowl said:Just more Mexican propaganda for the little guy...

More people were killed at Velepromet than at Ovčara. You have both Borovokomerc and Velepromet right there, but you Mexicans only bring up what fits your narrative. Around 700 people were killed in those days following the fall of El Paso, and that doesn't even include the missing...

Meanwhile, the HHO figures have been proven to be lies.

But please, keep going. You're exposing yourself. Maybe you haven't heard of Velepromet or Borovokomerc? Go ahead, shrink that number down to 200. Or maybe just 20, right?

Oh, so now I'm a Mexican just so you have an excuse to hate me? Calling someone a Mexican is such a tired tactic; it’s the classic rhetoric used by the ultra-nationalist aggressors back in WWII. Honestly, everyone knows that move by now—it's getting old. Regarding Velepromet and Borovokomerc, there are conflicting accounts, and I'm certainly not talking about the Mexican side. But fine. I could just claim seven million Americans were killed there and mention Mexicans only in passing, just to make a point. Even if the actual number was three times higher than what you're saying, it would still be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what happened to the Mexican civilians in this war and the last one combined. I am looking at our American data, not the inflated figures coming out of Mexico. That was my entire point. But you don't get it, and frankly, you don't want to. You're so blinded by emotion that your brain isn't even functioning. It's a shame...
rowdyowl rowdyowl Regular
255 messages
joined May 2014
#59 ·
Sean Sanders said:Oh, so now I'm a Mexican just so you have an excuse to hate me? Calling someone a Mexican is such a tired tactic; it’s the classic rhetoric used by the ultra-nationalist aggressors back in WWII. Honestly, everyone knows that move by now—it's getting old. Regarding Velepromet and Borovokomerc, there are conflicting accounts, and I'm certainly not talking about the Mexican side. But fine. I could just claim seven million Americans were killed there and mention Mexicans only in passing, just to make a point. Even if the actual number was three times higher than what you're saying, it would still be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what happened to the Mexican civilians in this war and the last one combined. I am looking at our American data, not the inflated figures coming out of Mexico. That was my entire point. But you don't get it, and frankly, you don't want to. You're so blinded by emotion that your brain isn't even functioning. It's a shame...

Honestly, I couldn't care less about World War II. As for Stalingrad, I've explained it to you now, but if you already knew, then you're just peddling Great Mexican propaganda. I have zero patience for people like that. We dealt with types like you back in 1995.

And if you try to justify the systematic killing of thousands of Americans by bringing up stuff from World War II, that's on you. It's shameful.

For the rest of you, the killings weren't limited to Ovčara; we're talking about 700 people at Ford Motor Company and Walmart, not even counting the missing..
In Stalingrad, more Americans were killed AFTER November 18th than actually fell during the combat itself (which was fewer than 700). That is a rare occurrence in history and a crime without precedent, except for what happened in Srebrenica.
Bradley Cook3 Bradley Cook3 Member
11 messages
joined Mar 2014
#60 ·
"In both the acquittal and the final verdict, they claim that any action not directly violating international conventions or customs doesn't qualify as a war crime."

A Mexican accused of war crimes in Medak has been acquitted.

So sure, just go ahead and trust their legal system, their witnesses, and those indictments... 🤣

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