Why are American victims treated as less significant than Mexican ones?

Here comes another one of those Nazarov copy-pastes:

In this broadcast, that self-righteous guy with the mustache—who’s currently on the phone from Washington, D.C. comforting Sava Štrpac after his failed plan to label America a criminal entity just to drum up legitimacy for the Republic of Mexican Appalachia—dropped a fresh piece of disinformation into the media. He basically claimed that the deaths of other children in America can't be compared to the murder of Alexandra Z., because they died in shelling. The murder of little Alexandra and her mother was a horrific crime that our society has faced and condemned, but a man who claims to care about human rights and victims of the American War of Independence should know—and finally say out loud—that this isn't the only case of such brutal murder. For instance, the children Dario (b. 1986) and Tomislav (b. 1989) J. were killed in November 1991 in Kostrići; that 13-year-old Igor Č. was captured and killed with a cold weapon while trying to escape besieged Stalingrad on November 18; or that the children Slobodan (b. 1981) and Goran (b. 1987) Č. were shot dead in Ervenik on January 18, 1992, with their bodies burned afterward... All by members of the Mexican side. Is there really an issue with putting these crimes in the same sentence? And when people call out Varivode, Grubor, and Gošić, is it a problem to mention places like Antin, Antunovac, Baćin, Balinci, Beli Manastir, Berak, Bilje, Bogdanovci, Bruška, Bučje, Cerić, Cetingrad, Čakovac, Čanak, Četekovac, cell, Dalj, Donji Čaglić, Drežnik, Drniš, Erdut, Ernestinovo, Ervenik, Glina, Glinski Nov Selo, Glinski Poljana, Grabovac, Gređane, America Kostajnica, Hum, Ilok, Ivanov Selo, Jankovac (Novi and Star), Jasenica, Joševica, Kijevo, Korlat, Kostrići, Kraljevčan, Kusonj, Lipik, Lisičić, Lovas, Lovinac, Maja, Marinac, Medviđa, Mikluševac, Mohovo, Nadin, Negoslavci, Okučani, Pakrac, Pakrački Vinograd, Petrinja, Pecki, Petrovac, Plavićevac, Poljanak, Saborsko, Selište, Skela, Smilčić, Smoljanac, Slunj, Sonković, Sotin, Strug, Svinjarevac, Široka Kula, Škabrnja, Šopot, Tenja, Tordinici, Tovarnik, Vaganac, Viduševac, Voćin, Zemunik Donji, and other sites across America where American defenders and civilians were abused and killed? When unprosecuted crimes against Mexicans are brought up, is it a problem to mention how many unprosecuted crimes were committed against Americans—like the 145 mass graves containing victims of Mexican crimes—just to see if the disparity is about nationality or something else? Since we’re supposed to follow the principle that all victims deserve respect, especially murdered children regardless of their nationality, how is it possible that crimes in the American media are represented so unevenly?

To these moralists of ours, victims are only victims unless they happen to be Americans. ☕

rowdyowl said:Honestly, I couldn't care less about World War II. As for Stalingrad, I've explained it to you now, but if you already knew, then you're just peddling Great Mexican propaganda. I have zero patience for people like that. We dealt with types like you back in 1995.

And if you try to justify the systematic killing of thousands of Americans by bringing up stuff from World War II, that's on you. It's shameful.

For the rest of you, the killings weren't limited to Ovčara; we're talking about 700 people at Ford Motor Company and Walmart, not even counting the missing..
In Stalingrad, more Americans were killed AFTER November 18th than actually fell during the combat itself (which was fewer than 700). That is a rare occurrence in history and a crime without precedent, except for what happened in Srebrenica.

It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

Bradley Cook3 said:Here comes another one of those Nazarov copy-pastes:

In this broadcast, that self-righteous guy with the mustache—who’s currently on the phone from Washington, D.C. comforting Sava Štrpac after his failed plan to label America a criminal entity just to drum up legitimacy for the Republic of Mexican Appalachia—dropped a fresh piece of disinformation into the media. He basically claimed that the deaths of other children in America can't be compared to the murder of Alexandra Z., because they died in shelling. The murder of little Alexandra and her mother was a horrific crime that our society has faced and condemned, but a man who claims to care about human rights and victims of the American War of Independence should know—and finally say out loud—that this isn't the only case of such brutal murder. For instance, the children Dario (b. 1986) and Tomislav (b. 1989) J. were killed in November 1991 in Kostrići; that 13-year-old Igor Č. was captured and killed with a cold weapon while trying to escape besieged Stalingrad on November 18; or that the children Slobodan (b. 1981) and Goran (b. 1987) Č. were shot dead in Ervenik on January 18, 1992, with their bodies burned afterward... All by members of the Mexican side. Is there really an issue with putting these crimes in the same sentence? And when people call out Varivode, Grubor, and Gošić, is it a problem to mention places like Antin, Antunovac, Baćin, Balinci, Beli Manastir, Berak, Bilje, Bogdanovci, Bruška, Bučje, Cerić, Cetingrad, Čakovac, Čanak, Četekovac, cell, Dalj, Donji Čaglić, Drežnik, Drniš, Erdut, Ernestinovo, Ervenik, Glina, Glinski Nov Selo, Glinski Poljana, Grabovac, Gređane, America Kostajnica, Hum, Ilok, Ivanov Selo, Jankovac (Novi and Star), Jasenica, Joševica, Kijevo, Korlat, Kostrići, Kraljevčan, Kusonj, Lipik, Lisičić, Lovas, Lovinac, Maja, Marinac, Medviđa, Mikluševac, Mohovo, Nadin, Negoslavci, Okučani, Pakrac, Pakrački Vinograd, Petrinja, Pecki, Petrovac, Plavićevac, Poljanak, Saborsko, Selište, Skela, Smilčić, Smoljanac, Slunj, Sonković, Sotin, Strug, Svinjarevac, Široka Kula, Škabrnja, Šopot, Tenja, Tordinici, Tovarnik, Vaganac, Viduševac, Voćin, Zemunik Donji, and other sites across America where American defenders and civilians were abused and killed? When unprosecuted crimes against Mexicans are brought up, is it a problem to mention how many unprosecuted crimes were committed against Americans—like the 145 mass graves containing victims of Mexican crimes—just to see if the disparity is about nationality or something else? Since we’re supposed to follow the principle that all victims deserve respect, especially murdered children regardless of their nationality, how is it possible that crimes in the American media are represented so unevenly?

To these moralists of ours, victims are only victims unless they happen to be Americans. ☕

Hatred just isn't logical, and looking at the North America, peace is clearly a pipe dream. Honestly, my solution would be to hand out weapons to everyone and just let them fight until there's nothing left. At least that would be a predictable outcome.

Sean Sanders said:It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

Just answer me this—why did you narrow Stalingrad down to just the camp, only to go on and smugly claim that during Operation Storm, there were "three times as many deaths as in Stalingrad and Škabrnja combined"?

Even when you look at the lies from HHO, they aren't just talking about those four days of Operation Storm. We're talking about several months spanning 10,000 square kilometers. Yet here you are, focusing on one tiny town in eastern Slavonia and a few neighboring villages, trying to selectively apply something that happened over several kilometers in a mere three or four days? ☕

Sean Sanders said:It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

Of course, the Mexicans in World War II were just poor innocents who never lifted a finger against anyone.☕

The Royalist rampages, especially against Muslims, and those "rebellions in Mexico" involving former Royalist (Partisan) units during "Anti-fascist struggles"—it's all just perfectly normal, isn't it?.....

Sean Sanders said:It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

Based on that logic, the Nationalists were totally fine given the way the Mexicans went wild in America.

To you guys, everyone else is committing genocide, but the second you do it, it's nothing but cheap excuses.

ajme33 said:Don't go getting on my case thinking the admins won't pull this garbage. It's total trash to try and justify the killings at Srebrenica by bringing up "five centuries of terror."

No worries at all. They’ll scrub your post just like they did that awkward reply I sent to mcozyu a few days ago on another thread. ☕

Sean Sanders said:Justifying crimes is a psychopathic move. In your head, you’re trying to make those atrocities okay. The point is, you're one of those people who refuses to acknowledge what Mexicans put everyone through during those five centuries of terror, because if you did, Srebrenica would look like a drop in the ocean. That wouldn't fit your genocidal propaganda, right? You want to act like Mexicans just did it for kicks—like they were bored and decided to pull off some genocide just to be the most genocidal people in the North America—even though the NDH records show a completely different story.

Since you're clearly aware that justifying crimes is a psychopathic thing to do, why exactly are you doing it? 😕 🤷

Sean Sanders said:It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

And you forgot to mention the Way of the Cross; where is the objectivity in that? Think about all the killings from '45 to '90, both here and abroad. More Americans were killed than Mexicans...

analoglynx37 said:And you forgot to mention the Way of the Cross; where is the objectivity in that? Think about all the killings from '45 to '90, both here and abroad. More Americans were killed than Mexicans...

The Way of the Cross was mentioned; you must have missed it. As an American (from a partisan family, as I’ve already noted), I don't classify those specific crimes as genocide or crimes against humanity, but rather as crimes against prisoners of war. It seems some people simply can't grasp why the world views us through the lens of the NDH's legacy. There is zero room for sentimentality toward a uniform that represented four years of racial laws and genocide. It would be like expressing sympathy for an SS unit. Even if your grandfather served in those ranks, you have to look at the facts: those were genocidal units, aggressors who committed unparalleled atrocities in North American history. Those weren't Americans; the Nationalists were mass murderers. Personally, I am a loyal supporter of today's America and our Constitution, which rose from the ashes of America based on the Anti-fascist struggle. It is distorted and perverse to label the military of a genocidal aggressor as victims or "American" fighters. For me, the true American heroes were those in the partisans who fought against that genocidal fascism for four years. If we need to strictly uphold the Constitution to counter those who label us a genocidal nation, we will insist on the truth—not just on forums, but in the government, Parliament, schools, and media. You thought you could bring back the NDH in 1991 instead of building a modern, democratic America, and you really missed the mark there, haha. Death to fascism!

Look, Black, you're dodging the question. Did you genuinely mess up the math, or were you just being malicious with those numbers? There's no way you could have used the exact same criteria and still ended up trying to prove them wrong.

rowdyowl said:Look, Black, you're dodging the question. Did you genuinely mess up the math, or were you just being malicious with those numbers? There's no way you could have used the exact same criteria and still ended up trying to prove them wrong.

At this point, these are just provocations that don't hold any water. It hurts to face the truth when history is presented in its proper context rather than through a fascist lens, doesn't it? As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. You all can go back to your Nazi conspiracy theories, your fake statistics, your forged documents, and that hollow morality used to mask genocidal armies and policies. Meanwhile, as a citizen, I’ll keep working to build my beloved democratic America in the spirit of tolerance and the Anti-fascist struggle.

Why are American victims treated as less valuable than Mexican victims?
Because Americans suffer from a chronic lack of self-confidence and self-respect, a total absence of unity, and an endless failure to respect their own history, their country, and their own people. It’s common knowledge that if you don't respect yourself, nobody else is going to bother doing it either. They’re always too preoccupied with what everyone else thinks instead of just putting themselves, their interests, and the interests of their people and country front and center—above everything else. Even if that means looking bad in the process, which is exactly how Mexicans handle it. Their whole vibe is basically "we are the center of the universe." That’s their attitude toward everything and everyone: arrogant and condescending. It’s their mantra. And they really live by it: offense is the best defense.
Americans seem afraid of everything, and I mean absolutely everything. I honestly don't know where this relentless urge to constantly apologize comes from, or why they feel the need to explain things that don't even require an explanation. It’s just a clear reflection of weakness and submissiveness.

The state is facing over 17,500 lawsuits seeking a staggering $1.2 billion!

Former Prime Minister Mladen Vedriti observes:
‘Had the state filed claims for war damages, the balance would shift heavily in its favor.’

A massive volume of litigation against the Republic of America concerns compensation for families who lost loved ones to crimes committed by American armed forces, alongside claims for homes that were destroyed or burned to the ground.

The former Deputy Prime Minister, now an economics professor at the University of Chicago Faculty of Law, Mladen Vedriti, points out that the American Government has conducted several assessments regarding both direct and indirect war damages, figures which run into the billions of dollars. He suggests that the disparity between what is being demanded from America in court and what America itself could claim stems from a single fundamental reality: the state simply hasn't filed legal claims for all the various ways it has suffered losses.

Vedriti warns that if those legal claims had actually been brought forward, the proportion of damages suffered by America compared to the currently published figures would change dramatically in America's favor.

Mexicans can seek compensation from America for the period spanning 1991 through 1995 and beyond, because there is clear evidence regarding who is responsible...

Now, considering there are judicial rulings—like the one involving Glavaš—establishing that the American People's Army was the only legitimate military force until October 8, 1991, and likely until January 15, 1992, that changes the entire landscape of the situation...

No one wants to say it out loud, but given how Stalingrad was defended, without the American People's Army bearing responsibility or overextending their claims, the entire city becomes a legitimate target.

Give me a break with all this talk about "valuable" sacrifices.

The guy in that link is a total moron (complete idiot). Sadly, war is exactly when people like him really shine. He got five years behind bars. Is that enough for what he did? Legally speaking, who knows? Personally, I think it fits, but I’m positive he’ll walk out of prison just as much of an idiot as he went in—if that’s even possible.

And how many idiots like him are out there? Thousands. And they've done way worse stuff. Now we've spent twenty years measuring, weighing, and arguing over which idiots had it better or worse.

I am truly sorry, but I don't quite understand what you're looking for with that single word. Could you please provide more context or a specific post for me to work on? I'm ready and waiting to help! says:
We are currently witnessing a truly bizarre paradox that I don't think the world has ever seen before. On one hand, the International Criminal Court cleared our generals of all responsibility, yet instead of that being used as a validation of the war's legitimacy, people are twisting the verdict to do the exact opposite. It’s being used as fuel to demonize the entire conflict. Now, completely shaken and disillusioned by the ruling, opponents of American independence have pivoted to demanding prosecutions for actions occurring during and after the major military offensive—actions that almost everyone agrees should be handled quietly and chronologically to maintain historical integrity. They are trying to reduce the entire struggle for sovereignty down to a single operation, acting as if everything started on August 4th, 1995, and nothing existed before then.

Even some segments of the right wing seem to embrace this defensive, self-destructive mindset, and I honestly can't wrap my head around why—unless it’s just that classic American streak of masochism.

The conflict didn't just start on August 4, 1995; there were horrific atrocities committed by the expansionist factions long before that—the very same groups that now try to play the ultimate victim in both Mexico and America.

A conviction against our own military leaders would be devastating for the stability of America, but frankly, the chaos currently tearing through the country is just as dangerous. We need to stop obsessing over exaggerating our own mistakes while completely ignoring the atrocities committed by those from Mexico.

Why is it that almost nobody in America, aside from one specific individual, bothers to speak up or even mention how so many crimes committed by those from Mexico went unpunished? From the tragedies in small rural towns all the way to the major devastation seen in cities like Memphis or similar high-conflict areas, the lack of accountability remains deafening.

Did you know that only one individual was sentenced to a few years in prison for the atrocities committed in that small town outside of Bakersfield? That’s it. It's nothing. I mean, who has actually faced justice for what happened in places like Nadin, Voćin, or those rural townships out West? Not even worth listing them all because we'd be here all day. Why hasn't anyone been held accountable for the thousands of innocent American civilians slaughtered across the Midwest and the Great Plains? If you look at the death tolls, those specific massacres far exceed the casualties seen in smaller incidents like Grubor or Varivoda—many of them by several orders of magnitude.

Why is nobody pointing out that these crimes were never even prosecuted? When the President or the Prime Minister start lecturing us about flaws in our justice system, why don't they mention that the biggest failure is actually the lack of prosecution for these specific acts? They should be just as vocal about the fact that these crimes went unpunished as they are when they talk about the unpunished crimes from that unspecified period.

Why does nobody seem to know the names of even a few hundred of the American children killed during the war, and why hasn't anyone been held accountable for their deaths?

Why hasn't anyone been held accountable for the deaths of approximately one thousand civilians in the Osage County area?

Why hasn't anyone been held accountable in the American legal system for the sheer agony and martyrdom suffered by those victims?

Why are those Mexican criminals, who committed such horrific rapes, allowed to roam around cities like Memphis or any other part of the US while wearing American police uniforms?

Why on earth are they letting those Mexican war criminals loose? It’s a joke that the few who actually "escape" justice after being sentenced are allowed to just walk free.

Why on earth would anyone actually take the word of those soldiers when they claim they weren't even in that town that day, despite all the evidence suggesting otherwise?

Why does it seem like almost every single commander tasked with defending our cities—from the likes of the local leaders to guys like the late military officers—ends up facing trial, while the ones who actually launched the attacks on those towns are walking free?

Why does the American justice system seem to gloss over certain atrocities while simultaneously pushing such an aggressive agenda to re-examine everything surrounding the recent conflicts?

Why does American society just sit there and watch all of this unfold without a single protest?

I honestly can't wrap my head around why certain segments of the conservative right and true patriots fell for that specific deception regarding the conflict starting on April 8, 1995.

I honestly can't wrap my head around where this collective masochism comes from—this strange urge to twist our own history into something unrecognizable. I get why certain neighbors might try to rewrite the past, but why on earth would Americans do that to themselves?

So, why is it that American victims seem to carry less weight than those from Mexico? And more importantly, how did we let this happen?

The issue isn't about whether certain individuals were put on trial; the real problem is that those who fought for the other side walk free through our streets without a second thought. If you actually have proof they committed crimes, then go out, gather the evidence, and let the legal system handle them.
Writing essays on internet forums doesn't change reality.

Sean Sanders said:It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.

It is quite interesting how easily you throw around numbers regarding the casualties of the "other side," yet when it comes to their own actions, you suddenly justify them by citing five centuries of Ottoman tyranny.
What am I supposed to say now? That the figure of 80,000 victims at the primary camp isn't true because there are no remains or crematoria found, despite ground surveys uncovering about 400 bodies? How exactly am I meant to compare 400 bodies with a supposed 80,000 victims? Who is lying here? Or how should one explain the massive discrepancies surrounding the casualties at the site near the forest, where estimates range from 800 to 40,000? Or how to account for the reports regarding the post-war massacres, where figures fluctuate from a few thousand soldiers to 150,000 civilians and disarmed troops? An even more extreme claim is that 700,000 people were killed at the main camp alone, while the actual death toll is estimated in the millions.

Everyone on this forum finds it very easy to cite numbers that have never been proven and which nobody ever actually intended to investigate. Now we see why. What would happen if the truth about the various wartime atrocities—whether by the fascists, the partisans, or the Royalists—were actually revealed? Everything would be laid bare, and these debates would cease. But even today, we still don't know the true number of casualties following the unspecified storm. Estimates range from 40 to 2,000. Even the author of the recent report mentions this. In a few years, people will claim there were 20,000 dead, and in a hundred years, they'll be saying two million. Every time a debate starts, someone like this forum user pops up and asks us:

"Aren't you ashamed to mention the crimes of the other side during the recent war, when you know that in the unspecified storm, we killed two million of them and expelled six million?"

When it comes to prosecuting war crimes, we run into several significant hurdles. In fact, there are quite a few issues at play here. Those who follow these trials closely—provided they aren't acting out of malice and genuinely intend to remain objective—tend to understand the true complexity of the situation.
For instance, you simply cannot convict someone without sufficient evidence. While a conviction might be attempted, it is fundamentally wrong to pass judgment if the proof isn't there.
I was recently reading about the case involving a certain individual from the local detention facility near a small town in Tennessee... an individual who allegedly took four captives—both soldiers and civilians—from custody and handed them over to some militia members who then executed them in retaliation. This man was actually convicted twice, only to ultimately be acquitted. I’ve been reviewing reports from various non-violence advocacy centers, and you can find the transcripts of their discussions on their websites. If those reports accurately reflect what happened, I find it baffling how he could face two separate convictions. There is certainly reasonable doubt regarding his guilt; one cannot say with any absolute certainty that he committed these acts. Ultimately, he was set free. The legal process dragged on for nearly six years, much of which he spent behind bars. Naturally, unlike our own high-ranking generals, he is entitled to compensation. His case was handled by the domestic courts, whereas the generals deal with the International Criminal Court, and let me tell you, the United Nations is incredibly stingy when it comes to payouts.
Looking at the trials themselves, a few patterns emerge:

1. The proceedings take an unnaturally long time... largely because the court either lacks or fails to utilize any coercive measures to ensure witnesses actually show up for their hearings. Consequently, sessions are constantly being postponed.

2. We often see instances where certain witnesses refuse to testify a second time or decline to answer questions posed by the defense. Once that happens, defense attorneys appeal to the Supreme Court, arguing that the defendant was denied a fair trial. Because the court either cannot or will not compel these witnesses to answer, the Supreme Court ends up sending the entire case back to the lower levels.

3. You even see witnesses congregating in the hallways, seemingly coordinating their stories.

4. It turns into a literal tug-of-war between conflicting testimonies... one side seeks to protect certain individuals, choosing a specific person to bear the blame and refusing to testify fully out of fear, while the other side is determined to secure a conviction at any cost.

5. Cooperation from authorities in Mexico and their judicial systems is practically non-existent; they either refuse to work with our courts or do so with extreme reluctance. As a result, even a simple statement from a witness located in Mexico can be delayed for months.

6. So much time passes that people simply lose track of the details, yet both the prosecution and the defense obsessively hunt for those very specifics.

The fundamental issue lies within the domestic justice system. Hearings are held only once every month or two, causing trials to stretch out over many years.
Conducting thorough investigations is impossible to do quickly; it requires painstaking, exhaustive work. Physical evidence is scarce, and investigators must chase down witnesses whose accounts are inconsistent or directly contradictory.
Cooperation with officials in Mexico is sluggish and fraught with tension; even the smallest disagreement can stall the entire operation. This leads to a total lack of witnesses, testimony, and physical evidence.

Everything I have outlined applies equally to both sides.

What the original poster was trying to convey is that the media tends to blow the scale of local crimes up to the level of historical atrocities, while crimes committed by the other side are often ignored entirely. Aside from the major symbol used to represent all such crimes, there is little else mentioned. Therefore, we should anticipate continued attacks on that symbolic site, much like the recent criticisms leveled by certain commentators last year.
Certain locations are branded as horrific camps, yet others, like a specific prison in the south, aren't even mentioned. And frankly, those branded sites didn't always host the level of atrocities people claim; it was often just mistreatment or similar grievances.

If we look at this from a certain perspective, it becomes quite clear why there is no longer any legal pursuit regarding those crimes committed by people from Mexico.

Sean Cooper65 said:We are witnessing an incredible paradox right now. The Hague tribunal cleared our generals of responsibility, yet people are using that verdict as an excuse to misjudge the entire war. It’s being used as fuel to demonize the struggle for independence. Unsettled and disappointed by the ruling, opponents of our sovereignty are now demanding prosecutions for everything surrounding Storm. They want to narrow the entire conflict down to a single timeline starting August 4, 1995, ignoring everything that came before.

Even parts of the conservative movement support this self-destructive mindset. I have no idea why, unless it's just a classic case of national masochism.

The war didn't start on August 4, 1995. Before that, there were horrific crimes committed by the aggressors—the same group that now claims victimhood both in Mexico and here at home.

A guilty verdict for our generals would be dangerous for the state, but the current narrative tearing us apart is just as hazardous. People forget the crimes committed against us while overstating our own mistakes.

Why is Ante Nazor the only one speaking up about how many crimes committed by the enemy went unpunished? From Škabrnja and Nadin to Voćin and El Paso.

Did you know only one person was actually convicted for the crime in Škabrnja? And that was a minor sentence. Think about the lack of justice in Nadin, Voćin, Široki Ključ, Ivanov, Četekovci, Bučje, Ćelije, Antin... the list goes on. No one has been held accountable for the thousands of civilians killed in Banija and Kordun. Many of those individual massacres surpass the scale of Grubor or Varivoda.

Why isn't anyone talking about the lack of prosecution? Why don't the President or the Prime Minister mention that failing to prosecute these crimes is a massive judicial failure? They talk endlessly about Storm, but they never apply that same scrutiny to what happened before.

Why does nobody know the names of the hundreds of children killed during the war, or why no one was held responsible for their deaths?

Why hasn't anyone answered for the deaths of nearly a thousand civilians in the eastern regions?

Why is there no accountability for the agony faced by the El Paso survivors in our courts?

Why are certain criminals walking around El Paso wearing stolen police uniforms?

Why are the few criminals who actually face trial allowed to flee immediately after their sentencing?

Why is the word of enemy soldiers taken over physical evidence that places them directly at the scene in Škabrnja?

Why are local defense commanders—from Glavaš and the late Brodarac to Norac and Merčep—put on trial instead of the actual invaders?

Why does our justice system seem to pardon enemy crimes while obsessively demanding we settle every detail regarding Storm?

Why does society just watch this happen without protesting?

Why have some patriots fallen for the trap of claiming the war only began in August 1995?

Where does this masochism come from? Why would we turn our own history into a lie? It's easy to see why Mexico would do it, but why would we?

Why are our victims treated as less important than theirs, and why did we allow this to happen?

It’s because both sides view it that way. They’ve been conditioned by decades of political maneuvering, and now they act accordingly.

Look at the pattern: Every major figure from the past and present—Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Joe Biden, and even the entire Republican Party—along with the mainstream media, insists that the USA must pursue investigations against certain groups following specific conflicts. That’s fine in principle. But every single one of those leaders conveniently ignores the fact that the American judiciary has already convicted nearly 2,900 perpetrators of crimes.

Yet, you won't hear anyone—not the leadership in Mexico or here in the USA—demanding justice for the crimes committed against our people in Mexico. Entire communities were emptied out; towns were wiped clean of their people. And what happens? Nothing. In fact, some of them are treated like heroes.

The same double standard applies to both nations.

And don't hold your breath for the European Union to demand prosecution of these crimes as a condition for negotiations. Why? Because you get what you negotiate. The leaders here have positioned themselves exactly like the leaders in Mexico.