What's the point of required reading?

Jessica Kelly4 said:Why suffer through a book that doesn't grab you?
Give it a shot—maybe fifty pages, maybe a hundred, whatever your patience allows—but if it doesn't pull you in, isn't it just more honest to admit it's a dud? 🤷

Exactly. The issue with current required reading lists is that most of them are just incredibly dense and boring, yet they absolutely have to be finished. Otherwise, there are consequences.
Sure, saying "I didn't get past page 50 because I couldn't make sense of any of it" isn't really an option, since kids would start using that excuse for every single book pretty quickly 🤣
That’s actually why we need variety in school reading lists. It would break up the monotony of those heavy, unreadable books (especially in high school 🙄 where almost nothing makes sense because of all the archaic language and old dialects). If they threw in something like Stasio, one of the Kishons, or even some of that increasingly popular fantasy, you'd see how many students would actually enjoy reading. It would make everything easier, and reading wouldn't feel like such a chore or a total turn-off for everyone.

Jessica Kelly4 said:You can get literate reading Clark, Asimov, or Herbert too... 🙂

I have a distinct impression that you completely missed the point of my previous post. However, to clear the air, why don't you try paraphrasing what you think I actually said? Tell me exactly how you interpreted my argument and why you believe your response addresses it. Perhaps that will help us find some common ground. 😁

Peter Doyle2 said:Not really.
No one in my house reads. Honestly, almost nobody in my circle does, aside from a few girlfriends. Still, I managed to develop a genuine love for reading on my own—well, except for a pretty dark period during high school and right after.
But that’s a whole other long story, I guess. This thread is supposed to be about required school reading lists.
How am I supposed to tell my kid one day, "Honey, please read *The Process*, it's an incredibly esteemed and important book," when it left me (and clearly others here too) with deep-seated trauma? 🤷 The only thing I could probably say is, "Ugh, just deal with it, I had to, too," and then encourage them to go find some therapy through a much more normal novel. 🤣

I'm not pretending these aren't valuable, great works of literature. I said that right at the start of this discussion. I don't think they should be kicked out of schools or textbooks—good grief.
But they shouldn't be the foundation of a mandatory reading list. They aren't engaging, and frankly, they aren't suited for teenagers at all. Almost any of them could be studied in class just as effectively—if not more so—than many of the other books currently stuck in the American curriculum.

So, we're back to the original question: what is the actual point of required school reading? Or better yet, given that physical books are dying and reading culture is fading, what *should* the purpose be today? Isn't it more important to actually get kids interested in reading—to spark that curiosity—rather than systematically forcing them through "great" works that are just plain repulsive? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe that if I hadn't been forced to tackle so many of these high school staples until I was older and more mature, I wouldn't have grown to hate them so permanently.

It would be really interesting to see the reading lists used in other countries, though.

edit: Looking at Kate Cox2's list, it seems like almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And *Combray* is right there at the beginning, just to kill you off the moment the school year starts. 🤣 Franz Kafka is hot on its heels. 🙄

To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

Daniel Gomez10 said:I'm signing onto this whole post.
Obviously, we aren't going to love everything on the syllabus. Some books we'll slog through, some will be boring and pointless so we force ourselves to finish them, and others will be so dense or confusing that we won't even make it to the end.
The most important thing is having a smart, reasonable English teacher who lets students speak their minds and actually debate things during class.
I had that kind of teacher, and since a lot of my friends actually did the reading, literature class was honestly the highlight of my day.
By the way, I also had to struggle through both *Werther* and *Anna Karenina*. 😉

I actually read *Faust*; I had to write a paper on it once. 😳
I'll admit, it was a tough read.

I absolutely loved *Anna Karenina*. I actually wrote a report on it too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for the thickest books... 🤣
Madame Bovary is such a great read. And don't forget Zola, either!
Plus, things didn't exactly fall apart completely afterward 🙂

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

Peter Doyle2 said:Exactly. The issue with current required reading lists is that most of them are just incredibly dense and boring, yet they absolutely have to be finished. Otherwise, there are consequences.
Sure, saying "I didn't get past page 50 because I couldn't make sense of any of it" isn't really an option, since kids would start using that excuse for every single book pretty quickly 🤣
That’s actually why we need variety in school reading lists. It would break up the monotony of those heavy, unreadable books (especially in high school 🙄 where almost nothing makes sense because of all the archaic language and old dialects). If they threw in something like Stasio, one of the Kishons, or even some of that increasingly popular fantasy, you'd see how many students would actually enjoy reading. It would make everything easier, and reading wouldn't feel like such a chore or a total turn-off for everyone.

I agree we should mix things up, but then you realize the teaching methods need to change too. Usually, these books are assigned right when they're covering that specific era in literature.
And honestly, Kishon and Kafka aren't even in the same ballpark. Sure, they scatter them here and there (like E. A. Poe), but it's not enough.
Not to mention, I don't get why some books make the cut while others don't. What's wrong with White Clown? 🤷 Or Sea Under the North Star? They're all solid reads.
Then there's Lovecraft, who basically kicked off the last century. They could easily have tucked him in somewhere between Kafka and Krleza. 🤷

brightpuma said:To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

I sincerely hope that some unfortunate high schooler gets a firsthand taste of the joys of American bureaucracy before they are forced to crack open the legal code. 😁

I'm not entirely certain, but I suspect that reading the White Clown would have been required summer reading for me.

Aside from concluding that required reading lists are absolute garbage, I’ve also come to the realization that American authors aren't worth the paper they're printed on. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the white clown—he was actually quite good—but he was clearly nothing more than a fluke.

brightpuma said:I was just talking about picking out items and stuff like that.

My bad, misread that.

LOL
How did I manage to pull this off? Posting my comment before the actual post even shows up. 😕

Peter Doyle2 said:The keyword here is child. Honestly, back when I was 17 or 18, things like bureaucracy, politics, or even the harsh realities of the world we live in weren't even on my radar—it just wasn't something I had to worry about. If I were to face that entire process today, the experience would be completely different. Guaranteed. As it stands, though, it just left me with nothing but trauma and... 😕 Right over our heads.

Look, that’s not really about the assigned reading list. I know plenty of people who skipped their required school books entirely—just copied the summaries—but they spend all their free time devouring other novels because they actually find literature interesting. I don't get the impression that they lack eloquence or general cultural knowledge just because of that. Skipping one specific book for class is one thing—it's a completely different story if you don't read anything at all. 😉

I have no idea how this happened, but I never actually had to read *The Little Prince*—not in elementary school, not in middle school, not even once. 🤷 I just started my studies at teacher's college, so I guess I can't really give you an answer to that question yet. 🤷

I thought the transformation was amazing too 😁 I’ve mentioned this before—it was smooth and easy to grasp. The process, however? Not so much. That part was pure torture. As for that castle nonsense, we didn't even bother reading 😳

And that isn't just true for one book; you experience things so differently then versus now.
There are so many books that hit you differently depending on your age when you read them.
To me, that’s the beauty of literature😍
and it’s not just about books... it’s movies, songs, paintings... it’s art.😍

I actually love revisiting something I read years ago and watching how much I've changed and grown. It's funny looking back at something I didn't quite grasp as a teenager but totally get now, or something I thought was absolutely mind-blowing back then that now makes me go, "So what?"

Peter Doyle2 said:The keyword here is child. Honestly, back when I was 17 or 18, things like bureaucracy, politics, or even the harsh realities of the world we live in weren't even on my radar—it just wasn't something I had to worry about. If I were to face that entire process today, the experience would be completely different. Guaranteed. As it stands, though, it just left me with nothing but trauma and... 😕 Right over our heads.

Look, that’s not really about the assigned reading list. I know plenty of people who skipped their required school books entirely—just copied the summaries—but they spend all their free time devouring other novels because they actually find literature interesting. I don't get the impression that they lack eloquence or general cultural knowledge just because of that. Skipping one specific book for class is one thing—it's a completely different story if you don't read anything at all. 😉

I have no idea how this happened, but I never actually had to read *The Little Prince*—not in elementary school, not in middle school, not even once. 🤷 I just started my studies at teacher's college, so I guess I can't really give you an answer to that question yet. 🤷

I thought the transformation was amazing too 😁 I’ve mentioned this before—it was smooth and easy to grasp. The process, however? Not so much. That part was pure torture. As for that castle nonsense, we didn't even bother reading 😳

The issue with school assignments is that they're written specifically to be summarized—so kids end up just grabbing info from the internet or having their parents write them.

It really should just be an engaging conversation about what was read; nothing more, nothing less.

I have some experience with essay writing from middle school. In high school, we only did formal essays during freshman year; for everything else, we had to come to class prepared... meaning, we had to have read the book, known the basic literary movement it belonged to, the era it was written in, and its contemporaries (they often linked it to history, politics, philosophy, or other arts).
So, to actually participate in class, you had to have read it and known the basics from a lecture or two beforehand. Grades were rarely handed out randomly; you'd get an A if you really blew them away, or maybe a D if you admitted you read it but couldn't answer basic questions.
You couldn't really skip the reading unless you were incredibly well-informed, otherwise, you'd get caught on a test, a specific prompt, or just when discussing literary movements.
Honestly, my senior year and college entrance exams were such a headache because of all that.
The admissions process was the same way, too.

Even so, I definitely have a few unread or half-read books on my list (which I boldly claimed I'd finished; I was only honest with myself when I told my mom I just watched the movie and only read the part where the employer gets his junk cut off and put on a stake... and I still got an A!) and I made up for it by listening closely in class to make sure I knew everything needed for the grade.

Peter Doyle2 said:The keyword here is child. Honestly, back when I was 17 or 18, things like bureaucracy, politics, or even the harsh realities of the world we live in weren't even on my radar—it just wasn't something I had to worry about. If I were to face that entire process today, the experience would be completely different. Guaranteed. As it stands, though, it just left me with nothing but trauma and... 😕 Right over our heads.

Look, that’s not really about the assigned reading list. I know plenty of people who skipped their required school books entirely—just copied the summaries—but they spend all their free time devouring other novels because they actually find literature interesting. I don't get the impression that they lack eloquence or general cultural knowledge just because of that. Skipping one specific book for class is one thing—it's a completely different story if you don't read anything at all. 😉

I have no idea how this happened, but I never actually had to read *The Little Prince*—not in elementary school, not in middle school, not even once. 🤷 I just started my studies at teacher's college, so I guess I can't really give you an answer to that question yet. 🤷

I thought the transformation was amazing too 😁 I’ve mentioned this before—it was smooth and easy to grasp. The process, however? Not so much. That part was pure torture. As for that castle nonsense, we didn't even bother reading 😳

We actually read The Little Prince back in elementary school.
I had a really great teacher who introduced the book to us in a way that actually made sense to me.
That being said, it’s the one book I would personally never want to see on a mandatory reading list, especially if there's a grade attached to it.
If it's for any other reason besides just because adults love hitting certain metrics, then sure, fine.😍

Linda Price5 said:I have a distinct impression that you completely missed the point of my previous post. However, to clear the air, why don't you try paraphrasing what you think I actually said? Tell me exactly how you interpreted my argument and why you believe your response addresses it. Perhaps that will help us find some common ground. 😁

A decent school system is one where success doesn't depend on whether your parents are intellectuals hosting literary salons, or if you're just scraping by through a minimal curriculum.

Do I get a candy bar now? 🙂

It's obvious there's a lot of love here for Metamorphosis, The Trial and the Castle, and similar heavy hitters. But let's be real: how many people actually read and contemplate these books during a required reading assignment? One per class? That's being too optimistic. These aren't books that foster a love for reading, nor do they stick with you—mostly because people haven't actually read them 🙂 . It's forcing literature down people's throats, and for some reason, the perpetrators are convinced the victims should somehow enjoy it. Think about it.

We should probably ask if it makes sense to make so many people hate reading just so we can claim our educational curriculum is brilliant. 🤷

Linda Price5 said:I sincerely hope that some unfortunate high schooler gets a firsthand taste of the joys of American bureaucracy before they are forced to crack open the legal code. 😁

I'm not entirely certain, but I suspect that reading the White Clown would have been required summer reading for me.

Aside from concluding that required reading lists are absolute garbage, I’ve also come to the realization that American authors aren't worth the paper they're printed on. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the white clown—he was actually quite good—but he was clearly nothing more than a fluke.

Just make Tribunesque's "history of pornography" the mandatory reading.
At least everyone will borrow it for the title, and maybe someone might actually stick around to finish it.😁

brightpuma said:To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

The keyword here is child. Honestly, back when I was 17 or 18, things like bureaucracy, politics, or even the harsh realities of the world we live in weren't even on my radar—it just wasn't something I had to worry about. If I were to face that entire process today, the experience would be completely different. Guaranteed. As it stands, though, it just left me with nothing but trauma and... 😕 Right over our heads.

brightpuma said:To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

Look, that’s not really about the assigned reading list. I know plenty of people who skipped their required school books entirely—just copied the summaries—but they spend all their free time devouring other novels because they actually find literature interesting. I don't get the impression that they lack eloquence or general cultural knowledge just because of that. Skipping one specific book for class is one thing—it's a completely different story if you don't read anything at all. 😉

brightpuma said:To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

I have no idea how this happened, but I never actually had to read *The Little Prince*—not in elementary school, not in middle school, not even once. 🤷 I just started my studies at teacher's college, so I guess I can't really give you an answer to that question yet. 🤷

brightpuma said:To be honest, a kid could learn a lot from The Trial and the Castle. They could draw parallels to how bureaucracy works today. It's a book worth reading. 👍

So we're back to the original question: what is the point of school reading lists? Or better yet, what *should* the purpose be today, now that books are dying and reading culture is fading? Shouldn't the priority be getting kids interested in reading, fostering a love for books, rather than systematically shoving "the classics" down their throats when they find them totally repulsive?

Oh, come on. The curriculum exists to build a general sense of culture. I know plenty of people who brag about reading maybe two assigned books, while they just copied the summaries for everything else—you can actually tell when someone is missing that foundation.
Another thing: there's this push here to make us read certain American authors in their entirety. Look, if I haven't read the whole Iliad or all of Dante's Hell, why should I have to read all of Judith? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe a much smaller percentage of high school books would have permanently disgusted me if I'd picked them up later, once I was a bit more mature.

It depends. Take a cliché example. What do you think about The Little Prince? You likely encountered it in elementary school and then again (when you were older) in high school.

Edit: Looking at the extreme list, it confirms almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And Combray is right at the beginning, just to kill you off at the very start of the school year. 🤣 Kafka is right on its heels.

Combray feels like a punishment, sure, but I don't get why everyone is attacking Kafka so hard? I mean, The Trial and the Castle might be a bit tedious, but they're good books. And Metamorphosis is honestly one of the better ones in high school generally. Very deep, lots to think about. You have to remember these are meant for seniors—it's right around the time they can actually grasp them.

I don't know, it was just miserable for me. 🙂 I hit page 50 and just quit. When people actually explained the plot to me, it sounded interesting enough. 🙄

Anna Karenina is amazing. Had to write a paper on that one too. Looking back, I guess I always did have a thing for those massive doorstops...
Madame Bovary is great. And don't forget Zola.
And things didn't all go downhill right after that. 🙂

To be honest, I can't recall much from later on, but those were the last books that really grabbed me. Kafka, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary...

Just look at this reading list they put together for fourth grade. Half of it could easily be cut. 🤷 Fragrance, Gold, and Incense? Come on... 🙄 I felt like that book was literally sucking the life out of me...

I thought the transformation was amazing too 😁 I’ve mentioned this before—it was smooth and easy to grasp. The process, however? Not so much. That part was pure torture. As for that castle nonsense, we didn't even bother reading 😳

Linda Price5 said:I sincerely hope that some unfortunate high schooler gets a firsthand taste of the joys of American bureaucracy before they are forced to crack open the legal code. 😁

I'm not entirely certain, but I suspect that reading the White Clown would have been required summer reading for me.

Aside from concluding that required reading lists are absolute garbage, I’ve also come to the realization that American authors aren't worth the paper they're printed on. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the white clown—he was actually quite good—but he was clearly nothing more than a fluke.

It’s coming for everyone sooner or later, whether they read it or not... 😁

I'm not positive, but I think I had White Clown on my required reading list.

Probably depends on the teacher. Not for me. 🤷

(Oh, and besides realizing that required reading is garbage, I also decided American authors aren't worth much. Not because of White Clown—I actually liked that one. But it was an outlier.)

That's why I mentioned him. There are still a few authors out there worth reading, even if they're overlooked.

Peter Doyle2 said:The keyword here is child. Honestly, back when I was 17 or 18, things like bureaucracy, politics, or even the harsh realities of the world we live in weren't even on my radar—it just wasn't something I had to worry about. If I were to face that entire process today, the experience would be completely different. Guaranteed. As it stands, though, it just left me with nothing but trauma and... 😕 Right over our heads.

Look, that’s not really about the assigned reading list. I know plenty of people who skipped their required school books entirely—just copied the summaries—but they spend all their free time devouring other novels because they actually find literature interesting. I don't get the impression that they lack eloquence or general cultural knowledge just because of that. Skipping one specific book for class is one thing—it's a completely different story if you don't read anything at all. 😉

I have no idea how this happened, but I never actually had to read *The Little Prince*—not in elementary school, not in middle school, not even once. 🤷 I just started my studies at teacher's college, so I guess I can't really give you an answer to that question yet. 🤷

I thought the transformation was amazing too 😁 I’ve mentioned this before—it was smooth and easy to grasp. The process, however? Not so much. That part was pure torture. As for that castle nonsense, we didn't even bother reading 😳

Maybe. On the other hand, if I understood that book better now, I wouldn't bother quoting it because I simply don't have the time—nor would I be able to. But, at least now, I get what the author meant. Which also answers this:

That’s true, but look, it isn't about the required reading list. I know people who never read the assigned books—they just copied the summaries—but they read other stuff that actually interests them. They don't strike me as ineloquent or uncultured. There's a big difference between skipping a school assignment and not reading books at all. 😉

Some books you just don't "get" until you're older, and then you're glad you read them. 😉 You realize some things never change. And how much we lag behind other cultures in terms of certain worldviews.

I don't know how it happened, but I never had The Little Prince for school reading, not in middle school or high school. 🤷 I didn't pick it up until college (teacher's college), so I can't really give you an answer 🤷

Man, I had it in both schools. 😬 That's why I asked. Because the whole experience of that book is completely different when you're reading it in grade school versus high school.

Yeah, the transformation was a mess for me too. 😁 I already wrote that. The plot was simple and easy to follow. The process wasn't. The process was pure torture. We didn't even read the castle part, 😳

Neither did we. I read it solely out of my own love for Kafka... 😬

Peter Doyle2 said:Exactly. The issue with current required reading lists is that most of them are just incredibly dense and boring, yet they absolutely have to be finished. Otherwise, there are consequences.
Sure, saying "I didn't get past page 50 because I couldn't make sense of any of it" isn't really an option, since kids would start using that excuse for every single book pretty quickly 🤣
That’s actually why we need variety in school reading lists. It would break up the monotony of those heavy, unreadable books (especially in high school 🙄 where almost nothing makes sense because of all the archaic language and old dialects). If they threw in something like Stasio, one of the Kishons, or even some of that increasingly popular fantasy, you'd see how many students would actually enjoy reading. It would make everything easier, and reading wouldn't feel like such a chore or a total turn-off for everyone.

Most of these kids, once they grow up and land a job, will find themselves having to plow through a thousand pages of someone else's nonsense—reports, manuals, opinions, plans, agendas... would they tell their boss to pick out what they want to read back then? 🤣
Or would they call Mom and Dad to have them read it, summarize it, and write the review for them? 🤔

If someone can actually articulate *why* they found something boring after fifty pages, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to say that honestly. I don't think it would lead to much abuse.
I mean, provided they can actually argue their point.
To me, it seems much healthier than someone forcing themselves through something they hate, or even worse, having a parent read it to them and write the report.
Plus, I truly believe it’s better for them to encounter things they don't like, especially during those teenage years, rather than just being spoon-fed exactly what they want all the time.
A little frustration is necessary for growth.
A bit of rebellion is healthy in high school.
😍

I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

brighteagle86 said:I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

🤣

I guess nobody carries the same kind of trauma from math☕

But please, don't come for my math skills; I actually enjoy it... just like I love diving into Kafka or Dostoevsky😍

brighteagle86 said:I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

But what part of math is actually useless to the average person, unlike something like The Cursed Courtyard or John Seagull's Spring?🤷

brightpuma said:But what part of math is actually useless to the average person, unlike something like The Cursed Courtyard or John Seagull's Spring?🤷

Personally, I only need addition, subtraction, and multiplication😬

Let everyone else—and the calculators—worry about the rest.

Quincy:

brightpuma Asks: What kind of math is actually useless to most people, unlike something like The Cursed Courtyard or John Seagull's Spring? 🤷

Calculus integrals? I'm still trying to wrap my head around them myself. 😁

brighteagle86 said:Personally, I only need addition, subtraction, and multiplication😬

Let everyone else—and the calculators—worry about the rest.

Great... 🙄

So, what we really need is to split classrooms into two groups: those who just want to pass the basics taught in elementary school, and those who actually have an appetite for learning. That's basically how the American education system was built, right?

Besides, I never said we should ban books entirely—just swap them out. The current reading list is clearly outdated. That’s why I suggested tossing about half of them off the list...