What's the point of required reading?

rowdypanther12 said:Quincy:

brightpuma Asks: What kind of math is actually useless to most people, unlike something like The Cursed Courtyard or John Seagull's Spring? 🤷

Calculus integrals? I'm still trying to wrap my head around them myself. 😁

Look, if anyone actually bothered learning calculus, they probably ended up in a class with people who actually needed it... 🤷 😁

brightpuma said:Great... 🙄

So, what we really need is to split classrooms into two groups: those who just want to pass the basics taught in elementary school, and those who actually have an appetite for learning. That's basically how the American education system was built, right?

Besides, I never said we should ban books entirely—just swap them out. The current reading list is clearly outdated. That’s why I suggested tossing about half of them off the list...

you really took me too seriously
of course I don't think we should scrap 90% of the math curriculum
but personally, my high school workload felt excessive—mostly because math isn't exactly my forte, nor is it my passion
then again, maybe I would have actually developed an affinity for math if I'd had an incredible professor with enough patience to handle someone as mathematically challenged as I am 😁

by the way, is the American school system really that terrible?
how do they handle required reading? I assume they mostly stick to American authors. 😬

Signed on my rhino.
The issue isn't really the books themselves; they’re only a small part of why these classes struggle. It’s more about how the sessions are actually run.
I think reading assignments should function more like a book club. I haven't personally been part of one, but that's the idea—you read a specific selection and then everyone gets together to talk about it. 😁
It’s actually great when people have different opinions; that’s when the best discussions happen.
As for the teacher, their role should be to prep the kids for the story, maybe explain a few tricky concepts just to get them settled in, and then act as a moderator for the discussion once they've finished reading. 😁
Anyway, that’s just how I picture the perfect reading program. 😁

brighteagle86 said:I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

My memory is working against me here. Back during the transformation, I was devouring Herbert's Dean. Honestly, it was torture. On one hand, you have books you're dying to absorb, and on the other, you're just struggling to tell if you're reading the book or if the book is reading you. 🙂It didn't leave me with the best impression, but I might give it another shot. It just had way too much competition back then. 😁

brightpuma said:Great... 🙄

So, what we really need is to split classrooms into two groups: those who just want to pass the basics taught in elementary school, and those who actually have an appetite for learning. That's basically how the American education system was built, right?

Besides, I never said we should ban books entirely—just swap them out. The current reading list is clearly outdated. That’s why I suggested tossing about half of them off the list...

Oh yeah, because we definitely need to be making fun of Americans. 🙄

The truth of the matter depends heavily on the professor.
Even back in high school, we didn't really sit down to read the assigned books. Instead, we'd just tackle them during dedicated seminar days—which, I guess, didn't exactly stop the frustration. Then there was all the scrambling to find study guides, or having those classmates who actually finished the book summarize everything so the rest of us could prepare... you know how it goes.

Peter Doyle2 said:The truth of the matter depends heavily on the professor.
Even back in high school, we didn't really sit down to read the assigned books. Instead, we'd just tackle them during dedicated seminar days—which, I guess, didn't exactly stop the frustration. Then there was all the scrambling to find study guides, or having those classmates who actually finished the book summarize everything so the rest of us could prepare... you know how it goes.

Okay, so what's your actual solution? Throw out every book ever written? Which ones? Or just scrap required reading entirely?
The debate is really about the process itself. You thought it was terrible, but I thought it was perfect. For instance, *Anna Karenina* is a character I felt should have been thrown under a train right at the start just to save me from having to read her, yet some people absolutely adore her. 😁
Some classics from certain eras just need to be read; it's simply part of getting an education.
What I will say is that students should have more freedom to choose, most books could be used for extra credit, and we definitely need to include more modern literature.
That assumes, of course, that professors actually change their teaching styles.
But even then, I bet 40% of kids would still complain that it's too hard and claim they've grown to hate reading because of it. 🤷

rowdypanther12 said:Signed on my rhino.
The issue isn't really the books themselves; they’re only a small part of why these classes struggle. It’s more about how the sessions are actually run.
I think reading assignments should function more like a book club. I haven't personally been part of one, but that's the idea—you read a specific selection and then everyone gets together to talk about it. 😁
It’s actually great when people have different opinions; that’s when the best discussions happen.
As for the teacher, their role should be to prep the kids for the story, maybe explain a few tricky concepts just to get them settled in, and then act as a moderator for the discussion once they've finished reading. 😁
Anyway, that’s just how I picture the perfect reading program. 😁

That sounds like a solid, structured approach, but how on earth would you handle the grading side of things?

brisktiger56 said:That sounds like a solid, structured approach, but how on earth would you handle the grading side of things?

It’s based on participating in discussions, making arguments, and answering questions... nowadays, what you write is graded just like what you say.
My high school teacher used to grade us easily even when we didn't write anything down.😍

rowdypanther12 said:It’s based on participating in discussions, making arguments, and answering questions... nowadays, what you write is graded just like what you say.
My high school teacher used to grade us easily even when we didn't write anything down.😍

so, did you actually feel like he was being fair with the grading?

brisktiger56 said:so, did you actually feel like he was being fair with the grading?

I think 🤷
nobody really mentioned that his payout was too low
it just felt like a lot of work for what we got, especially since I had to catch up on all those extra readings😁😁

Summer, you basically just summarized my solution yourself. That’s what I’ve been getting at this whole time—we need an update. New genres, more breathing room... I mean, back in elementary school, we had maybe two or three books to choose from per year, so why shouldn't high school be the same? 🤷
I think I mentioned earlier this afternoon that I wouldn't cut the classics entirely, but maybe we could pair them with something "lighter" and more modern afterward.

Obviously, one person's masterpiece is another person's nightmare.
And look, you're never going to please everyone by picking mandatory reading. But let's be honest—the current list is just bad, and most teenagers find it incredibly boring.

Maybe my perspective on required reading is totally off, but to me, it isn't just about general knowledge. It's about fostering a love—or okay, maybe even a hatred 🤣—for books, character development, searching for deeper meanings, and actually building a habit of reading. Most of what's assigned in high school right now doesn't offer any of that because it's just confusing, tedious, and hard to wrap your head around.

And yeah, I guess 40% of kids would probably still complain.
But right now, it feels like 90%, if not more. 😬

Susan James said:Most of these kids, once they grow up and land a job, will find themselves having to plow through a thousand pages of someone else's nonsense—reports, manuals, opinions, plans, agendas... would they tell their boss to pick out what they want to read back then? 🤣
Or would they call Mom and Dad to have them read it, summarize it, and write the review for them? 🤔

If someone can actually articulate *why* they found something boring after fifty pages, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to say that honestly. I don't think it would lead to much abuse.
I mean, provided they can actually argue their point.
To me, it seems much healthier than someone forcing themselves through something they hate, or even worse, having a parent read it to them and write the report.
Plus, I truly believe it’s better for them to encounter things they don't like, especially during those teenage years, rather than just being spoon-fed exactly what they want all the time.
A little frustration is necessary for growth.
A bit of rebellion is healthy in high school.
😍

I'm with you on this.
It’s not great if a kid only ever does stuff they love. They need to tackle the boring, uninspiring tasks too. That’s how they learn to respect obligations and build a sense of responsibility.
It slowly prepares them for the real world once they grow up.😳
As for the rebellion part, I think some people in this thread are still stuck in that phase themselves... 😁

brighteagle86 said:I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

Like I mentioned before, demanding a total overhaul of the reading list basically undermines the whole point of studying literature.
The same logic applies to math or any other subject. If we go down that road, we could argue for a complete revision of all mandatory schooling, eventually concluding that everyone should just stay home and study whatever they feel like.
I'm not saying we shouldn't question things or make changes, but massive overhauls tend to trivialize the entire educational system.

Daniel Gomez10 said:I'm with you on this.
It’s not great if a kid only ever does stuff they love. They need to tackle the boring, uninspiring tasks too. That’s how they learn to respect obligations and build a sense of responsibility.
It slowly prepares them for the real world once they grow up.😳
As for the rebellion part, I think some people in this thread are still stuck in that phase themselves... 😁

Like I mentioned before, demanding a total overhaul of the reading list basically undermines the whole point of studying literature.
The same logic applies to math or any other subject. If we go down that road, we could argue for a complete revision of all mandatory schooling, eventually concluding that everyone should just stay home and study whatever they feel like.
I'm not saying we shouldn't question things or make changes, but massive overhauls tend to trivialize the entire educational system.

To me, the real issue is how disconnected all these subjects are from one another... I mean, you could easily bridge music with math, history with literature, or PE with physics, chemistry, biology... everything could be part of one cohesive whole if approached correctly.

If that were the case, a student wouldn't have to wonder why Kafka imagined a man turning into an insect or being swallowed by some bureaucratic machine... Everything would make sense if you viewed it through a wider lens. Back when I was in school, nothing ever connected—history and art history were treated as two completely separate worlds. It was almost impossible to see the link between them, even though they both dealt with the same eras, rulers, and artists... It’s a pretty clear sign that the curriculum wasn't really "stitched together" properly. 😉

The American education system could definitely use a serious shake-up 😛 which might actually make the required reading list feel more logical and tolerable (even if it isn't exactly fun on its own)...

brighteagle86 said:you really took me too seriously
of course I don't think we should scrap 90% of the math curriculum
but personally, my high school workload felt excessive—mostly because math isn't exactly my forte, nor is it my passion
then again, maybe I would have actually developed an affinity for math if I'd had an incredible professor with enough patience to handle someone as mathematically challenged as I am 😁

by the way, is the American school system really that terrible?
how do they handle required reading? I assume they mostly stick to American authors. 😬

jebiga, you went to a prep school. What did you expect? 🤷 Those places are basically training grounds for engineers, so they push advanced math hard... 😉

The reading list isn't even the main issue...

Jessica Kelly4 said:Oh yeah, because we definitely need to be making fun of Americans. 🙄

I was just talking about picking out items and stuff like that.

Peter Doyle2 said:Not really.
No one in my house reads. Honestly, almost nobody in my circle does, aside from a few girlfriends. Still, I managed to develop a genuine love for reading on my own—well, except for a pretty dark period during high school and right after.
But that’s a whole other long story, I guess. This thread is supposed to be about required school reading lists.
How am I supposed to tell my kid one day, "Honey, please read *The Process*, it's an incredibly esteemed and important book," when it left me (and clearly others here too) with deep-seated trauma? 🤷 The only thing I could probably say is, "Ugh, just deal with it, I had to, too," and then encourage them to go find some therapy through a much more normal novel. 🤣

I'm not pretending these aren't valuable, great works of literature. I said that right at the start of this discussion. I don't think they should be kicked out of schools or textbooks—good grief.
But they shouldn't be the foundation of a mandatory reading list. They aren't engaging, and frankly, they aren't suited for teenagers at all. Almost any of them could be studied in class just as effectively—if not more so—than many of the other books currently stuck in the American curriculum.

So, we're back to the original question: what is the actual point of required school reading? Or better yet, given that physical books are dying and reading culture is fading, what *should* the purpose be today? Isn't it more important to actually get kids interested in reading—to spark that curiosity—rather than systematically forcing them through "great" works that are just plain repulsive? 🤷

Honestly, I truly believe that if I hadn't been forced to tackle so many of these high school staples until I was older and more mature, I wouldn't have grown to hate them so permanently.

It would be really interesting to see the reading lists used in other countries, though.

edit: Looking at Kate Cox2's list, it seems like almost nothing has changed since I graduated. And *Combray* is right there at the beginning, just to kill you off the moment the school year starts. 🤣 Franz Kafka is hot on its heels. 🙄

Besides, how do you even know you'll share the same taste? For instance, I absolutely love books that my mother finds incredibly dull.🤷

I haven't actually read *The Process*, but now that I think about it, it might actually be right up my alley. My mom used to dodge reading altogether back in the day, and our school's required reading wasn't even that strict—we just had to pick three to five books a year, and we usually managed to scrape by with the easiest ones.

Peter Doyle2 said:Summer, you basically just summarized my solution yourself. That’s what I’ve been getting at this whole time—we need an update. New genres, more breathing room... I mean, back in elementary school, we had maybe two or three books to choose from per year, so why shouldn't high school be the same? 🤷
I think I mentioned earlier this afternoon that I wouldn't cut the classics entirely, but maybe we could pair them with something "lighter" and more modern afterward.

Obviously, one person's masterpiece is another person's nightmare.
And look, you're never going to please everyone by picking mandatory reading. But let's be honest—the current list is just bad, and most teenagers find it incredibly boring.

Maybe my perspective on required reading is totally off, but to me, it isn't just about general knowledge. It's about fostering a love—or okay, maybe even a hatred 🤣—for books, character development, searching for deeper meanings, and actually building a habit of reading. Most of what's assigned in high school right now doesn't offer any of that because it's just confusing, tedious, and hard to wrap your head around.

And yeah, I guess 40% of kids would probably still complain.
But right now, it feels like 90%, if not more. 😬

I feel the exact same way. It is much easier to absorb culture and gain perspective through life if you don't find the printed word utterly repulsive. 😁

rowdypanther12 said:It’s based on participating in discussions, making arguments, and answering questions... nowadays, what you write is graded just like what you say.
My high school teacher used to grade us easily even when we didn't write anything down.😍

Literature should be connected to other subjects, like history, geography, and language arts.

Kids should read every day, starting from preschool or kindergarten (in my opinion, American kids start school too late, and elementary school is way too short)... etc. Kids can handle reading and looking through picture books every single day if they're allowed to. And talking about them.

brisktiger56 said:To me, the real issue is how disconnected all these subjects are from one another... I mean, you could easily bridge music with math, history with literature, or PE with physics, chemistry, biology... everything could be part of one cohesive whole if approached correctly.

If that were the case, a student wouldn't have to wonder why Kafka imagined a man turning into an insect or being swallowed by some bureaucratic machine... Everything would make sense if you viewed it through a wider lens. Back when I was in school, nothing ever connected—history and art history were treated as two completely separate worlds. It was almost impossible to see the link between them, even though they both dealt with the same eras, rulers, and artists... It’s a pretty clear sign that the curriculum wasn't really "stitched together" properly. 😉

The American education system could definitely use a serious shake-up 😛 which might actually make the required reading list feel more logical and tolerable (even if it isn't exactly fun on its own)...

Ugh, don't even get me started... 🙄

What about math and physics? You need math skills for physics way before you've actually covered them. You end up with physics teachers explaining stuff you aren't supposed to learn in math class for months, just so you can actually solve the problem.