What are we even fighting for?

So much depression in here...

First off, suicidal impulses aren't actually a thing in the biological makeup of humans. Some animals supposedly exhibit it, but even that’s debatable.

Viewing the world as a horrific wasteland while seeing everyone else as repulsive—where the individual, the one who "understands," positions themselves as a moral compass, feeling uniquely "correct" or "phenomenal" compared to the rest of us filthy, corrupt masses in this nightmare of a world—that’s just a confirmation that life is a struggle.

A struggle where the "enlightened" one is ready to throw in the towel.

Dostoevsky was a drunkard who spent his entire life scribbling away without ever holding down a real job, but he hit the nail on the head: "If we truly understood how the world works and uncovered all its secrets, we would have nothing left to do but sit on the curb and cry..."

The question is, how do you interpret that? A fighter would say, "Exactly, because once everything is known, there's no more room for discovery, for the fight, for finding things, for novelty." Only a loser would read it as, "Yeah, everything is just so sad and depressing that I'm gonna go cry about it..."

Translation? Why the hell are you holding back from telling people they're trash? Just tell them, damn it, tell them and walk away. 🤷 Not EVERY person on this planet is evil; by writing this, you're implying that YOU aren't like those people. But if you aren't, then there are others just like you. Sure, nature is brutal. Death gives rise to new life. Lions eat zebras. So, what are you? A lion? A zebra? Or a scavenger, laughing behind a hard shell, just enjoying the ride?

Get out of the gutter and FIGHT. That is why life is a struggle.

Everything feels fine until you start asking "Why?" and hunting for reasons behind everything. There will always be more questions than answers—that’s just how life works. Don't waste time searching for meaning; create it instead. Find a purpose. Fight for it. And once you reach it? Find a new one. But don't let that goal be your entire existence. Live for the good people around you, too—your friends and your family.

I can’t just cruise through life without asking "why"—it’s impossible for me—and I guess we all hit that wall eventually.
Sure, you can have it all—an entire empire of smiles—but they’ll still let you down, and they’ll still hurt you.🙂
The truth is, nobody actually has a smart answer for this—mostly because one doesn't exist.
People only keep going because they’re terrified of being alone at the end.
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone.

Paul Thompson3 said:I can’t just cruise through life without asking "why"—it’s impossible for me—and I guess we all hit that wall eventually.
Sure, you can have it all—an entire empire of smiles—but they’ll still let you down, and they’ll still hurt you.🙂
The truth is, nobody actually has a smart answer for this—mostly because one doesn't exist.
People only keep going because they’re terrified of being alone at the end.
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone.

Look, people live because being alive is better than not being alive. Period. Not living isn't an alternative; it's just nothingness. We're all out here chasing some grand purpose, but don't expect it to just drop from the sky—you kind of have to build it yourself through reflection, keeping your eyes wide open as you go. Maybe that'll even change your direction. Just walking, watching, listening, experiencing... it’s actually not that bad. Imagine if you were born already knowing your whole life's purpose? It wouldn't be nearly as interesting, would it? 😬

I don't see the point in the typical work-home-work grind either, but that doesn't stop me from seeing all the possibilities that are still out there. It doesn't stop me from wanting to grab those moments, even if that ends up being the only real purpose.

I totally get that feeling where you need everything to feel meaningful, and I know how it is when that sense of purpose is what keeps you going. But I don't get why death seems like a better option. Especially since so much of life is just perspective—maybe we can actually tweak that life sine wave a bit. Like, after you hit rock bottom, you can climb back up even higher than before, using what you learned to rebuild yourself. And once you've rebuilt, you're capable of feeling the highs even more deeply and appreciating them way more. You'll fall again, sure, but maybe it won't sting as much because you're stronger. Maybe it won't feel as miserable because you'll choose to spot those tiny, beautiful things buried in the mess. Maybe after all that, you'll actually be proud of yourself—and maybe that pride turns into this quiet satisfaction and peace, which you then pass on to others. Maybe someone else will be moved by seeing you like that, and suddenly, things feel meaningful. Maybe, step by step, it could actually get easier and prettier.
Just a thought.

It's 5 AM here, but please, don't take this as just some cheesy melodrama 😬, you never know.

At the end of the day, screw "meaning" if the lack of it is what's stopping you from actually living. 🤷

Paul Thompson3 said:I can’t just cruise through life without asking "why"—it’s impossible for me—and I guess we all hit that wall eventually.
Sure, you can have it all—an entire empire of smiles—but they’ll still let you down, and they’ll still hurt you.🙂
The truth is, nobody actually has a smart answer for this—mostly because one doesn't exist.
People only keep going because they’re terrified of being alone at the end.
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone.

Look, your main goal should probably be learning English well enough so you don't write "they will let my down"—unless that was some intentional anatomical joke? 😁 Or maybe it's just foreign words getting mixed up; instead of "empire," you wrote "empirium" (though maybe you meant empirical evidence of a smile, but that makes zero sense in this context)?

There is a smart answer, you lazy bum. People live because living is fun! 👍 If you aren't some coward who avoids Borba and acts like a total wimp who wants to slit their own throat every time they lose, then every new day is a new victory! 👍
All this whining here comes from a simple urge: a lazy ass looking for some deep, cosmic reason beyond the logic of the universe just to get out of bed. If people weren't so lazy, just wanting to "go do something" would be a perfectly valid reason, just like any other.

Live only because I'm afraid of ending my own life!? FAKING HELL NO!!!!!! Imagine if I dropped dead today?! Total disaster!!!! Who knows who's going to win the next championship in the EP?! Will Asaf finally crush Bolt?! How will I know if the new openSUSE outperforms the new Ubuntu?! What happens to my latest project?!
Evil people in the world!? Horrible, desperate, annoying!? Like Leone Glembay would say—just spit on it and move on!!!

The meaning of my life? On my last day, turning around, taking Death to Hand and Say and saying, "WHAT A FUCKING GOOD RIDE... But to die, is going to be a fucking hell of an adventure!!!!"

Rista, I feel for you and your depression... but I also feel bad that I won't be around for another 300 years to see what the world becomes; all that new tech, the breakthroughs, the ideas, the colonization of new planets... 😢

And stop listening to that garbage music. Listen to something good and motivating instead of that lamenting crap. I suggest Falchion and Dragonforac. If you're feeling nostalgic, go with Manowar.

Why even ask what the Borba is for? Honestly, if you’re genuinely questioning that, it might be a good idea to reach out to a professional for some guidance.
It started the same way for me—this overwhelming sense of emptiness, feeling worthless, and just having zero motivation to even crawl out of bed. Maybe if I had sought help much sooner, things wouldn't feel quite this difficult

Guys, I’m honestly worried you’re missing the whole point here... maybe I’m just missing it, but I don't see depression in this... mkay? All I see is people failing to grasp how the world actually works and the simple fact that you have to go out there and engage in a little Borba just to carve out your own space...

Dennis Bailey2—everything you said is spot on. That's exactly what I try to do, though maybe I don't lean into it hard enough or with enough intensity... I am definitely not a depressed person, not even close. Honestly, I'm pretty grounded... so there was way more irony in my post than actual whining...
The urge toward suicide is very much a real thing, I've realized that more than a few times...

Paul Thompson3 said:I was going to post this in Philosophy, but since everyone in the psych group seems to share the common denominator of being "totally screwed," I figured I'd drop it here instead.
Life is a struggle—blah, blah, blah... But what happens when that struggle doesn't actually have a goal worth fighting for? When you’ve just been spinning your wheels for ages, staring at a wall, knowing full well nothing is ever going to change? You get those little bursts of ego, thinking you've made it, only to crash back down again—just an endless cycle of highs and lows against a backdrop of absolute, impenetrable nothingness. There's no safe harbor, no handhold, nothing actually worth living for.
Is this the headspace most people find themselves in right before they decide to end it all?

The truth is, the entire point of life is found within that very Borba—in the time you spend fighting and the meaning you choose to assign to it. Even if nothing in this world offers any guarantees, there is something beautiful about someone providing you a calm harbor and a sanctuary right when the storm is raging around you. For me, my child is that safe haven, and he is the reason it's all worth it. Some things, some realizations, you just only pick up as the years go by.

rustynomad12 said:Guys, I’m honestly worried you’re missing the whole point here... maybe I’m just missing it, but I don't see depression in this... mkay? All I see is people failing to grasp how the world actually works and the simple fact that you have to go out there and engage in a little Borba just to carve out your own space...

Dennis Bailey2—everything you said is spot on. That's exactly what I try to do, though maybe I don't lean into it hard enough or with enough intensity... I am definitely not a depressed person, not even close. Honestly, I'm pretty grounded... so there was way more irony in my post than actual whining...
The urge toward suicide is very much a real thing, I've realized that more than a few times...

But... isn't that exactly what makes this ugly world beautiful?

If everything was just handed to us on a silver platter, would anything actually matter? It reminds me of that old superhero movie line: "In a world where everyone is super, nobody is." That’s the crux of the issue. It’s the grind—the actual blood, sweat, and tears you pour into earning your spot—that gives that position any real value. If anyone could simply wake up and be Bill Gates, Einstein, or Gandhi, then being those people wouldn't mean a damn thing.

It’s like trying to argue with a saw about why it cuts. Why bother dissecting the physics of why the sky is blue? It just is. You can howl at the moon until you're blue in the face, but that isn't going to make it descend from the sky. 🤷

Dennis Bailey2 said:But... isn't that exactly what makes this ugly world beautiful?

If everything was just handed to us on a silver platter, would anything actually matter? It reminds me of that old superhero movie line: "In a world where everyone is super, nobody is." That’s the crux of the issue. It’s the grind—the actual blood, sweat, and tears you pour into earning your spot—that gives that position any real value. If anyone could simply wake up and be Bill Gates, Einstein, or Gandhi, then being those people wouldn't mean a damn thing.

It’s like trying to argue with a saw about why it cuts. Why bother dissecting the physics of why the sky is blue? It just is. You can howl at the moon until you're blue in the face, but that isn't going to make it descend from the sky. 🤷

Well, sure. Why not? Honestly, I’d love it if life just served everything up on a tray. That sounds absolutely wonderful to me. I don't particularly care for the whole "struggle builds character" sentiment, nor do I subscribe to the idea of making sacrifices.
Beauty is actually everywhere if you look for it; it's just people who tend to clutter things up and make the world look ugly. But nature itself? Pure perfection.
I spent years lost in contemplation over the idea of taking my own life—just weighing the pros and cons, asking myself why bother, what's the point, how does it work... and honestly, screw it, we're alive, so let's just live. That's eventually how I settled on it.
The Borba wears me down; I can't wrap my head around the purpose of the struggle, or human stupidity, or even the old cliché about the lion eating the zebra. I'm just a pacifist at heart, a total flower child. So that's how it goes—you just keep moving through life, never knowing what might happen next, knowing full well that death will come for us all eventually.

I don't know, that just feels wrong to me. 🤷

If someone handed me $20 quadrillion on a silver platter, a dozen gorgeous partners ready to cater to my every whim—regardless of race or build—and every luxury I could ever dream of, I wouldn't touch any of it. It sounds incredibly dull. There’d be nothing left to strive for because every problem would already be solved. Everything loses its luster when there’s zero friction. It's the pursuit itself that gives things weight.

Look, I’m not talking about "sacrifice" in some lofty, pseudo-philosophical sense. I’m talking about skin in the game. It’s the sweat equity you pour into something that makes an achievement actually mean something. Anyone can slide down a mountain on skis—what’s the big deal there? Nothing. But the grit, the grueling training, the struggle, and the sheer willpower required to get to that point? That’s where the value lies. It isn't just about the speed of the descent; it's about who you become during the climb. That’s how I see it.

Honestly, your logic comes across as nothing more than pure, unadulterated laziness. 🤷 It’s like saying, "Hey, let's just check out early so we don't have to deal with anything difficult."

Sure, I'll die eventually, but why shouldn't I enjoy the ride until then? 🤷

I can honestly say that the most rewarding moments of my life have been those instances where success just sort of fell into my lap without me having to break a sweat. 🙂
If I actually had to grind for something, all I felt once I reached the finish line was complete exhaustion—just utterly drained. The achievement itself felt hollow because I didn't have a single ounce of energy left to actually enjoy it. It wasn't even a sense of triumph; it was more like a profound sense of relief, like saying, "Thank God, it’s finally over."
There is absolutely no requirement to be extraordinary or unique, so why on earth would anyone bother trying to be?
The struggle, the constant uphill battle—what is the point of all that misery?
Take Serena Williams, for example; she is an absolute legend, a powerhouse who achieved greatness and became this iconic figure, and while her career is nothing short of spectacular, it isn't all sunshine and rainbows. The price she had to pay for that glory was her own physical well-being, a mountain of surgeries, and god knows what else...
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for self-destruction, but I am firmly against this endless, mindless "hustle culture." I find myself wondering if people living in massive mansions, like the Kardashians and their ilk, find their lives incredibly tedious and uninspiring. I won't lose sleep over the fact that society is structured to force us into a state of perpetual combat, but I simply cannot fathom why things couldn't be designed differently. Moving forward, my goal remains the same: I intend to navigate life by achieving my objectives with the absolute minimum amount of effort required, because, frankly, that strategy has always worked wonders for me. 🙂

Well, good luck with that. Honestly, I’m always relieved when people who spend their lives chasing clout and dragging their feet stay out of my way. If they happen to cross my path? Whatever. I’ll just run them over.

The Kardashians, the Hilton crowd, the whole socialite circus—they can have their little playground for all I care. I wouldn't touch that lifestyle with a ten-foot pole. What you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. Maintaining an empire like that? I wouldn't even consider it unless someone offered me 89 private jets and four times their entire net worth. 🤷

Dennis Bailey2 said:Well, good luck with that. Honestly, I’m always relieved when people who spend their lives chasing clout and dragging their feet stay out of my way. If they happen to cross my path? Whatever. I’ll just run them over.

The Kardashians, the Hilton crowd, the whole socialite circus—they can have their little playground for all I care. I wouldn't touch that lifestyle with a ten-foot pole. What you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. Maintaining an empire like that? I wouldn't even consider it unless someone offered me 89 private jets and four times their entire net worth. 🤷

Oh, I am well aware that my particular approach tends to spark a bit of envy in others; I seem to navigate complexities that leave most people struggling through sheer exhaustion. 🙂 I truly do feel for anyone who finds themselves grinding through misery when there is no inherent joy in the struggle, nor any masochistic inclination to be found there.
But let’s be realistic... appearances can be quite deceptive. It isn't all black and white, you see. I certainly have no desire to have someone obstructing my progress.

Dennis Bailey2 said:Well, good luck with that. Honestly, I’m always relieved when people who spend their lives chasing clout and dragging their feet stay out of my way. If they happen to cross my path? Whatever. I’ll just run them over.

The Kardashians, the Hilton crowd, the whole socialite circus—they can have their little playground for all I care. I wouldn't touch that lifestyle with a ten-foot pole. What you see on screen is just the tip of the iceberg. Maintaining an empire like that? I wouldn't even consider it unless someone offered me 89 private jets and four times their entire net worth. 🤷

In every single one of these cases, what we observe is nothing more than the surface level. That is precisely why I find myself wondering: is it really *that* terrible? I would actually love to give it a shot.
You might find it unappealing, but clearly, someone else would find it irresistible, and vice versa.

Well, hats off to you—that’s about as honest as it gets. Of course everyone prefers gliding along smoothly rather than struggling through the grind. Everyone loves a freebie, really; everything else is just window dressing that usually ends up becoming a chore.

The little skeptic in me couldn't stay quiet—I had to weigh in on the English skills here.😁 I was building on Matthew Harris6's handle, since I figured he was channeling that Johnny Cash vibe from the song Hurt. Look, I know my English, even if you don't know your music. I'm officially smarter than your dog! lol 😁

Paul Thompson3 said:I can’t just cruise through life without asking "why"—it’s impossible for me—and I guess we all hit that wall eventually.
Sure, you can have it all—an entire empire of smiles—but they’ll still let you down, and they’ll still hurt you.🙂
The truth is, nobody actually has a smart answer for this—mostly because one doesn't exist.
People only keep going because they’re terrified of being alone at the end.
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone.

Fair point about my username🙂. I picked it because that song really struck a chord with me. Everything is fleeting, yet there's this constant engine behind it all—this endless change.
I've asked those same heavy questions myself. It’s depressing, isn't it? That feeling of helplessness when you realize the answers might not even exist. But taking my own life? Never crossed my mind. I actually love being alive. It's the only thing I've got. I truly believe we all have a purpose, whether we find it or just decide to create it. For me, it's learning. I have this restless curiosity about how the world works; that's what keeps me moving. And then there are the people I love. I didn't start loving my life until I found my circle of true friends. Sure, someone will always disappoint you, but why dwell on them? You fight for what matters. You fight for what you love.

It’s honestly wild how Dostoevsky has become a total nobody. If that's the case, why is anyone even bothering to read him?
Well, probably the same kind of lazy people.

Everything just boils down to interpretation in the end. I mean, look at your comment—you’re treating the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki like they were some fascinating, useful, and deeply insightful technical case study.

And yeah, besides the social environment dictating your perspective, that viewpoint shifts as you get older too.

Does anyone actually take a depressed ninety-year-old grandmother to a psychiatrist just to "fix" her?
I highly doubt it.

Oh, and I'm sure psychiatrists know everything there is to know about life. Definitely ten times more than Dostoevsky ever did. They are definitely going down in history. Sure, assuming the world as we know it even survives this long.

My apologies to those who dare to question the meaning of existence. How could they possibly have the audacity!? 😉

I’d say you have to fight for anything—even if it turns out to be some massive, pointless nonsense, as long as it matters to you personally... because without that drive, we’re finished.
It’s just like the laws of nature; those who won't step up, the ones who lack that grit, they simply get trampled. It’s how our world works—unfortunate, I know, but that’s just the reality of it.

This might seem like a bit of a pedantic question—is it actually possible to have a struggle that is purely "for" something, rather than necessarily being a struggle "against" something else? We can claim, for instance, that we are fighting for world peace—but then, by definition, we are also fighting against those who (and this is the key part: in our view) threaten that very peace.

The whole concept could easily spiral into a dozen different philosophical rabbit holes, but I’m not sure there’s much point in drafting some massive manifesto here—so let me just say this: I understand the fight for survival—and I don't mean that in the most literal, life-or-death sense—but anything beyond that feels like a bit much to me. I honestly don't get why people who wouldn't dream of complaining about a comfortable lifestyle they didn't even have to fight for are automatically labeled as lazy, or somehow less worthy or interesting in any other capacity: why is it that a blessing is only considered valuable because it was won through conflict?

I suppose if you take the stance that "struggle is an essential ingredient of life," you could find an argument for almost anything—including those religious perspectives that view earthly existence as nothing more than a series of tribulations to be endured.

Paul Thompson3 said:I can’t just cruise through life without asking "why"—it’s impossible for me—and I guess we all hit that wall eventually.
Sure, you can have it all—an entire empire of smiles—but they’ll still let you down, and they’ll still hurt you.🙂
The truth is, nobody actually has a smart answer for this—mostly because one doesn't exist.
People only keep going because they’re terrified of being alone at the end.
Anyway, thanks for the input, everyone.

So, nobody had a smart enough answer? What exactly were you looking for? Everyone has their own little reason to keep swinging, something just significant enough to justify the struggle.

By the way, I watched that documentary you mentioned, and man, it really shook me—especially that part with the guy walking through the whole film only to take his own life at the end; it was just gut-wrenching.