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Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

Started by Jessica Howard5 · · 👁 55 views · 874 replies

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Participants Jessica Howard5jadetinker85Andrew Rivera3Sarah James4Linda Price5Nicholas KingJason Ortiz5Peter Doyle2Charles Murphy6rowdypanther12wanderinggardener12Paul Wilson72urbantinker8copperheron18Sean FoxSusan JamesEmily Gonzalez51James Perez54Karen Rodriguez3Kate Cox2rustydrifter10nimblelynx7Karen Richardson3copperpuma11 …
Richard Lee9 Richard Lee9 Member
33 messages
joined Dec 2006
#461 ·
Charles Murphy6 said:The thing is, there’s no such thing as mandatory elective classes. They didn't happen this year, and they certainly weren't an option last year either...
What gets written down in the official curriculum is basically just window dressing since nobody actually follows it—not that I’ve ever bothered to dig through those documents myself.
But now, they're going around collecting parental consent forms for electives for the upcoming school year, supposedly so they can gauge interest levels and figure out how many hours the instructors will actually need to be on the clock.

Signing this document... I honestly don't get what "OBLIGATION" regarding an ELECTIVE subject they think they're talking about—if something is labeled as an elective, then by its very definition... 🤷 Every single year, I have to decide whether or not to sign off on things like religious studies, computer science, or a second language... If I don't sign, my kid doesn't take it. Who could possibly force a child—say, one from a Muslim family or an atheist family—to attend a religious education class? 🤷 Absolutely nobody.
wanderinggardener12 wanderinggardener12 Active Member
71 messages
joined Jun 2012
#462 ·
Nancy Reyes85 said:I am uncertain if I am addressing the correct forum for this inquiry. What are the legal implications when a child is chronically absent from school, yet the parents haven't received any formal notifications from the elementary school administration? Does the school face any accountability or sanctions for failing to communicate these issues earlier? I recognize there is a degree of parental responsibility here for missing parent-teacher conferences—in this case, the mother has been dealing with significant health issues and the father lives out of state—but the timing of the communication feels egregious. The teacher only reached out a few days ago to mention that the student has been skipping classes periodically since the first month of the school year. Now, with the academic year drawing to a close, the child is facing retention. Are there specific federal or state education laws governing this type of oversight? If anyone could provide a link to relevant statutes, it would be immensely helpful.

In this particular situation, the child is the one suffering, and they are the ones who truly need support. Once the school realizes a child isn't being properly looked after, shouldn't they be reaching out to the Department of Social Services? If it wasn't possible to detect that the child was lacking adequate parental care—perhaps because the child was still mostly showing up to class and there were no other glaring red flags of neglect, especially since many parents simply don't show up to parent-teacher conferences—then the school might not have been able to act, nor should they have been expected to.

The child does not necessarily have to fail the grade. They may be eligible to take remedial exams if there is medical documentation justifying the absences. Keep in mind that an excused absence can also be of a psychological nature. What is required is to visit a primary care physician, speak honestly about the circumstances, request a written opinion, and then submit a formal petition to the Board of Education. Following that, it might be wise to go to the school in person to explain everything to the principal or the school counselor.

I don't know what your relationship is with the child, but please advocate for them—just try not to do it by pointing fingers at others for their current state. Perhaps there isn't a single culprit here, but rather just a series of unfortunate circumstances that collided at once.
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#463 ·
Richard Lee9 said:Signing this document... I honestly don't get what "OBLIGATION" regarding an ELECTIVE subject they think they're talking about—if something is labeled as an elective, then by its very definition... 🤷 Every single year, I have to decide whether or not to sign off on things like religious studies, computer science, or a second language... If I don't sign, my kid doesn't take it. Who could possibly force a child—say, one from a Muslim family or an atheist family—to attend a religious education class? 🤷 Absolutely nobody.

In high school, it's mandatory:
Elementary and Secondary Education Act
Article 27
(9) The core curriculum for a high school includes subjects that are
mandatory for all students in a specific track, while the elective portion consists of subjects where
the student must choose one or more courses based on their interests.
Walter Perez14 Walter Perez14 Newcomer
7 messages
joined May 2013
#464 ·
Still haven't heard back from my local elementary school about those elective classes because the guidance counselor is out on sick leave—typical, right?
I'm heading down to the school office next week to have a real sit-down about it.
See, up until now, they’ve been treating one of these "electives" like it was mandatory—which, honestly, is just a total joke since it's literally called an elective.
I'm really crossing my fingers that they stop pulling that nonsense moving forward.
copperpuma11 copperpuma11 Member
28 messages
joined Jan 2023
#465 ·
High school electives can be pretty confusing for kids. Honestly, the timing for how these choices are presented isn't ideal at all.

Take vocational schools, for example. They have general classes, but then there’s this elective block made up of specialized subjects. Some of those are mandatory, while a small portion is truly elective—meaning the school picks options based on what students want and what resources they actually have on hand.

Students also have to choose between religion or ethics classes.

As for the idea that you can just opt in and out whenever you feel like it? That’s not how it works. Once a subject is selected, it becomes a requirement just like any other class on the schedule.
Sam Murphy Sam Murphy Active Member
94 messages
joined May 2012
#466 ·
Charles Murphy6 said:I’m not going to dwell on the past—what’s done is done—but let me be perfectly clear: teachers simply need to understand that such behavior is strictly forbidden.
My husband and I would never resort to physical confrontation with those kinds of educators, but believe me, there are plenty of other ways to make someone pay.
Perhaps I’m in a slightly more advantageous position because, given my profession and how hard I work, I know exactly where to strike to make it hurt... though I certainly don't mean physically.

Please, enlighten those of us who aren't in the loop, because from everything I see and observe, kids haven't been more difficult than they are right now, and back in our day, none of us would have dreamed of disrespecting a teacher because we knew exactly what the consequences were... but today, teachers have lost almost all their authority, and if this trend of extreme liberalism and hyper-focus on "student rights" continues, we're going to see kids physically attacking them as early as elementary school. Honestly, when the kids come home from school, they act like little savages because they’ve been allowed to do whatever they want there; now, my own children don't cause trouble at school, but plenty of others do, and my kids witness it and talk about it at home, leaving me wondering how on earth I’m supposed to explain to them that such behavior is unacceptable when the school just sits there and tolerates it...
Charles Murphy6 Charles Murphy6 Active Member
118 messages
joined Dec 2011
#467 ·
Sam Murphy said:Please, enlighten those of us who aren't in the loop, because from everything I see and observe, kids haven't been more difficult than they are right now, and back in our day, none of us would have dreamed of disrespecting a teacher because we knew exactly what the consequences were... but today, teachers have lost almost all their authority, and if this trend of extreme liberalism and hyper-focus on "student rights" continues, we're going to see kids physically attacking them as early as elementary school. Honestly, when the kids come home from school, they act like little savages because they’ve been allowed to do whatever they want there; now, my own children don't cause trouble at school, but plenty of others do, and my kids witness it and talk about it at home, leaving me wondering how on earth I’m supposed to explain to them that such behavior is unacceptable when the school just sits there and tolerates it...

The harsh reality that most parents hate to swallow is that a lot of this behavior starts at home. It's a bitter pill for parents dealing with "troubled" kids to gulp down, mostly because they refuse to admit their own failures in upbringing, though I see it every single day—I see some parents finally realize the truth and just break down in tears because they know they messed up..
Kids certainly have rights, there's no doubt about that. But teachers have rights too, don't they? Don't they have the right to not be harassed by students during class, just as much as students have the right to be free from physical or psychological abuse?
Giving actual advice is a tall order since I haven't quite parsed the specifics of your question yet.
What kind of nonsense are we actually talking about here? Why exactly are these kids coming home acting feral? Are they frustrated by the chaos in the classroom? I haven't read everything, but when it comes to egregious professional errors, I know exactly where to apply pressure. Not to brag, but I’ve taken down some "big shots" myself—and I succeeded.
Persistence is everything in these situations. You also have to know exactly which doors to knock on. And for heaven's sake, never, ever rely on verbal agreements. Never. Remember that!
casualfalcon49 casualfalcon49 Member
13 messages
joined Jul 2010
#468 ·
Sam Murphy said:Please, enlighten those of us who aren't in the loop, because from everything I see and observe, kids haven't been more difficult than they are right now, and back in our day, none of us would have dreamed of disrespecting a teacher because we knew exactly what the consequences were... but today, teachers have lost almost all their authority, and if this trend of extreme liberalism and hyper-focus on "student rights" continues, we're going to see kids physically attacking them as early as elementary school. Honestly, when the kids come home from school, they act like little savages because they’ve been allowed to do whatever they want there; now, my own children don't cause trouble at school, but plenty of others do, and my kids witness it and talk about it at home, leaving me wondering how on earth I’m supposed to explain to them that such behavior is unacceptable when the school just sits there and tolerates it...

Honestly, it’s freaking hilarious to hear people claim that teachers can't do anything with kids anymore. Like, hello!!!
There are plenty of ways to settle things down with both the kid and the parent, and thank God those methods don't involve getting physical.
Sure, there’s a tiny percentage of kids that are just impossible, but let’s be real—those kids existed back then too, and nobody could handle them back then either.
It feels to me like some teachers who just don't want to put in the effort or deal with the hassle are hiding behind that excuse, and honestly, they kind of deserve it.
I’ve been working in education for 17 years and I’ve never had an issue with students or parents, but that’s because I always step in immediately. I come home absolutely drained from all the talking and disciplining, but I know why, and I take pride in that. Then I'll have a colleague working in the same building tell me, "Man, you're lucky, you always get the perfect generation," 🙂and seriously, I feel like shooting them.
Sam Murphy Sam Murphy Active Member
94 messages
joined May 2012
#469 ·
casualfalcon49 said:Honestly, it’s freaking hilarious to hear people claim that teachers can't do anything with kids anymore. Like, hello!!!
There are plenty of ways to settle things down with both the kid and the parent, and thank God those methods don't involve getting physical.
Sure, there’s a tiny percentage of kids that are just impossible, but let’s be real—those kids existed back then too, and nobody could handle them back then either.
It feels to me like some teachers who just don't want to put in the effort or deal with the hassle are hiding behind that excuse, and honestly, they kind of deserve it.
I’ve been working in education for 17 years and I’ve never had an issue with students or parents, but that’s because I always step in immediately. I come home absolutely drained from all the talking and disciplining, but I know why, and I take pride in that. Then I'll have a colleague working in the same building tell me, "Man, you're lucky, you always get the perfect generation," 🙂and seriously, I feel like shooting them.

There really is some truth to that, though; for instance, I have one student who enters my classroom and happens to be in the best-behaved class in the entire school, while the teacher for another class is living in absolute misery, even though that other group isn't exactly a model of good behavior because they have quite a few problematic kids, and it's just a simple reality that if you have five or six troublemakers, they can easily drag the whole class down with them...
casualfalcon49 casualfalcon49 Member
13 messages
joined Jul 2010
#470 ·
Sam Murphy said:There really is some truth to that, though; for instance, I have one student who enters my classroom and happens to be in the best-behaved class in the entire school, while the teacher for another class is living in absolute misery, even though that other group isn't exactly a model of good behavior because they have quite a few problematic kids, and it's just a simple reality that if you have five or six troublemakers, they can easily drag the whole class down with them...

Yeah, right. I guess I should just be thanking my lucky stars then, since I'm dealing with a perfectly behaved group of fifth graders while he’s stuck with some unknown disaster waiting to happen...
far from it, man. I deal with plenty of issues myself. We're talking kids with special needs, kids living with parents who are struggling with addiction, hyperactive kids, or that one kid who’s incredibly spoiled because his mom won't stop telling everyone he's a genius... (I work at a school where I handle one specific grade per year, so I don't get to pick and choose; I teach the entire cohort of about 20 students). But you really have to put in the work and grind to actually get results. You can't just stand there watching them and go, "Oh, look at them," or laugh at how disrespectful they're being. You have to react immediately, talk to the kids and the parents, hunt for actual solutions, stay honest, and maintain some level of authority... honestly, those are the basic qualities any teacher should have, don't you think?
jadetinker85 jadetinker85 Regular
446 messages
joined Jan 2024
#471 ·
Sam Murphy said:There really is some truth to that, though; for instance, I have one student who enters my classroom and happens to be in the best-behaved class in the entire school, while the teacher for another class is living in absolute misery, even though that other group isn't exactly a model of good behavior because they have quite a few problematic kids, and it's just a simple reality that if you have five or six troublemakers, they can easily drag the whole class down with them...

If you aren't planning on sending students to specialized schools or alternative institutions, then those troublemakers need assigned aides. There should be someone dedicated to them from the moment they walk through the school doors until the final bell rings.
Amanda Hughes37 Amanda Hughes37 Active Member
145 messages
joined Apr 2016
#472 ·
Sam Murphy said:Please, enlighten those of us who aren't in the loop, because from everything I see and observe, kids haven't been more difficult than they are right now, and back in our day, none of us would have dreamed of disrespecting a teacher because we knew exactly what the consequences were... but today, teachers have lost almost all their authority, and if this trend of extreme liberalism and hyper-focus on "student rights" continues, we're going to see kids physically attacking them as early as elementary school. Honestly, when the kids come home from school, they act like little savages because they’ve been allowed to do whatever they want there; now, my own children don't cause trouble at school, but plenty of others do, and my kids witness it and talk about it at home, leaving me wondering how on earth I’m supposed to explain to them that such behavior is unacceptable when the school just sits there and tolerates it...

Either you went to some weird private academy or you have selective memory. Based on what kids tell me, people were starting to smoke even earlier than they do now... boys in my class used to set fire to their journals after breaking into the school building and peeing on them (I'm 39)... the stories I hear from others aren't much different, and everyone agrees physical fights were actually more common back then since they weren't treated as something unusual.
The only thing is, professors used to drill us—now they aren't allowed to.
And don't even get me started on how my parents' generation lived—both here and in the US—having sex with whoever they wanted, hitting the bars, and doing drugs off spoons... they could show that crowd at Quincy what a real party looks like.☕
Besides, even Aristotle expressed disgust over the youth of his day and worried about where the world was heading...
jadetinker85 jadetinker85 Regular
446 messages
joined Jan 2024
#473 ·
Amanda Hughes37 said:Either you went to some weird private academy or you have selective memory. Based on what kids tell me, people were starting to smoke even earlier than they do now... boys in my class used to set fire to their journals after breaking into the school building and peeing on them (I'm 39)... the stories I hear from others aren't much different, and everyone agrees physical fights were actually more common back then since they weren't treated as something unusual.
The only thing is, professors used to drill us—now they aren't allowed to.
And don't even get me started on how my parents' generation lived—both here and in the US—having sex with whoever they wanted, hitting the bars, and doing drugs off spoons... they could show that crowd at Quincy what a real party looks like.☕
Besides, even Aristotle expressed disgust over the youth of his day and worried about where the world was heading...

😲 Maybe Seattle was that wild, but Washington, D.C. certainly wasn't. Plus, drug use didn't really become a massive issue here until the war years.
Other than that, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying the behavior you described was actually normal or common?
I don't remember people getting killed in fights back then.
John Thomas13 John Thomas13 Member
25 messages
joined Aug 2012
#474 ·
darkgull20 said:I’m with Elizabeth Patel67 on this one—I honestly haven't gotten the impression that things have become a total nightmare. There were school fights long before this... entire classes would group up just to clash with another group. And the bullying? It was always there, whether it was minor or more intense, with kids throwing insults like "loser" or "ugly"... kids will say anything, really. Back in the day, they’d pass little notes around the classroom calling someone a slut because they used to date Mark but now they're seeing his friend John—except now, all that stuff just gets posted on Facebook instead of being scribbled on scraps of paper or scrawled on the bathroom stalls. Kids will be kids. At the end of the day, it comes down to how they're raised at home: you have to teach them that spreading rumors isn't okay, but you also need to build up their self-esteem enough so they don't completely spiral when someone calls them "runt" or "fat"—preventing those tragic cases we see in the news where kids actually take their own lives.

Yes, there were fights and bullying in schools long ago, and that is the one point where I agree with you.
As long as there are people who think this isn't actually a big deal—who believe that mocking kids by calling them 'weak,' 'ugly,' or 'fat' doesn't hurt anyone—there will always be violence in schools. It’s because those kinds of parents will never see the problem.
Saying "it's all just a part of growing up" is an attitude held by someone who has never experienced abuse. And I guess, dear, with that line of thinking, you sound a bit like the other side—just poking fun a little so things wouldn't get too boring at school.

I know what it feels like when you can't even turn to a teacher, even after finally working up the courage to open up to them about something small. I know what I would do right now if my own son came to me complaining about bullying. The biggest issue, I think, is that these children find it extremely difficult to speak up. They don't want to tell anyone what's happening because they are terrified of retaliation and feel ashamed that others won't accept them.
The parent is the most important link here. Teachers can't watch every single corner of a school, no matter how much they want to. But the punishments should be stricter, though I suppose teachers aren't to blame since they are limited by the law (I am not a teacher, just to be clear 😁).
I want to say, they have to deal with all sorts of chaos—difficult family situations, or parents who are becoming increasingly abusive toward the children themselves. A child's sense of self grows daily, while theirs can drop to almost zero. Sooner or later, they just stop fighting because they feel overwhelmed and belittled. And anyone can file a report or sue over any little thing, regardless of whether they actually listen to information or care about their kids.
I am not making excuses for anyone. In several instances, I fought for things that everyone told me were impossible or that they didn't have the resources for. I felt certain something was wrong, even when the principal claimed I was imagining things because she surely would have noticed (I won't go into details). I acted after I had thoroughly checked the situation because whether you trust your child or not, people lie for many different reasons. You shouldn't take everything at face value; you have to investigate and find out what is actually going on.
I cannot justify abuse of any kind. This isn't just "kids being kids" to a victim; it is a wound that stays for a lifetime and shapes a huge part of their future. That is why I believe I have every right to step in and do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Chloe Gomez6 Chloe Gomez6 Member
16 messages
joined Mar 2011
#475 ·
There was a time when teachers could discipline students without any pushback. Why is that better than the current reality, where students often turn the tables on their instructors?
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#476 ·
Chloe Gomez6 said:There was a time when teachers could discipline students without any pushback. Why is that better than the current reality, where students often turn the tables on their instructors?

Who exactly said it was "better"? And honestly, what does it even mean to suggest this is just some kind of "payback time"? Look, abuse is abuse, plain and simple, regardless of who is doing the hurting and who is being hurt.
Chloe Gomez6 Chloe Gomez6 Member
16 messages
joined Mar 2011
#477 ·
rustydrifter10 said:Who exactly said it was "better"? And honestly, what does it even mean to suggest this is just some kind of "payback time"? Look, abuse is abuse, plain and simple, regardless of who is doing the hurting and who is being hurt.

People constantly backtrack, claiming things used to be different or "better" back then. It wasn't better—it was just different.

As if kids were better raised in the past. They weren't better raised; they were just too terrified to act out because you could easily get a beating from a teacher.
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#478 ·
Chloe Gomez6 said:People constantly backtrack, claiming things used to be different or "better" back then. It wasn't better—it was just different.

As if kids were better raised in the past. They weren't better raised; they were just too terrified to act out because you could easily get a beating from a teacher.

And honestly, that’s where the whole sense of helplessness among teachers today comes from.
Authority used to be built on raw power, and they maintained that control using corporal punishment.
Now that they aren't allowed to use physical discipline, they feel stuck because they don't have many other ways to instill fear. 🥳

If they change their approach toward students—once they realize that true authority comes from building relationships rather than forcing dominance, and that mutual respect is key—then the school environment will improve. They'll finally feel important and impactful again through connection rather than control. 😍
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#479 ·
This brochure might really catch the eye of some teachers out there—definitely worth a read. Personally, I haven't gone through all of it yet, but what I have seen so far is wonderful 👍.

It actually comes from the FamilyLab Facebook page and J. Juula
.
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Christian Richardson36 Christian Richardson36 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Sep 2012
#480 ·
I’m not entirely sure if this is the right sub for this particular grievance, but I’m looking for some perspective on the following:

From the very first day of the school year, the elementary teacher was out on maternity leave;
for those first two weeks, the kids had a substitute instructor:
then, during the third week of classes—on Monday afternoon—the permanent teacher finally returns from leave and immediately announces to the students that there will be a parent-teacher conference tomorrow afternoon (Tuesday);
of course, I can't make it—I have prior commitments already on my calendar, plus I'm juggling the schedules of my two older children who are also in school;
and then, instead of an apology for the short notice, they send me a formal letter essentially holding me accountable—they even included this little diagram depicting a triangle of "Student – Teacher" and "School – Parent."

In any standard American school district, how much lead time is a teacher actually required to give before scheduling a parent meeting? To me, it feels incredibly unreasonable to suggest that 24 hours is sufficient notice—but if anyone here is familiar with the specific district policies or general educational standards regarding this, I would truly appreciate your insight.

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