Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
Look, what you’re saying here is just religious dogma. And I think it’s kind of hollow. Adam didn't suddenly become God's equal; he didn't create other worlds or gain any supernatural powers.
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
Again, things don't really line up. When God (in the biblical story) kicks Adam and Eve out, He isn't promising them some "eternal homeland." There’s no mention of life after death. In fact, the idea of life after death isn't even part of the conversation back then. Neither Noah nor Abraham were given a promise like that.
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
I guess this is another empty concept. It’s not like
every person is guilty just because Adam ate from that forbidden tree. If that were true, it would mean God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, which implies He doesn't judge people individually. But if He
does punish children for their parents' sins—which is what is claimed in the Mosaic Ten Commandments—then He isn't just.
Besides, God rewarded Adam and his immediate descendants—since it's Adam's sin we're talking about—with lives spanning hundreds of years and massive families. Modern people, who surely haven't committed that specific sin—even those who claim to be in direct contact with God—only live to be about eighty.
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
Here we go again with religious dogma. I mean, if God actually intended to save all of humanity, wouldn't He have offered His laws to everyone, rather than just to one insignificant group of Israelites wandering on the edge of a desert?
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
So, does that mean if I grab a steak or some sausages, I'm breaking God's laws?
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
Then why didn't He just give the laws to Abraham right away? If God knows everything, surely He knew people would eventually need laws.
Arthur Grant8 said:Since Adam wanted all Knowledge, he might have wanted all life too—not as a gift to be cherished through love, but as a force that mocks respect, destroys order, and attempts to make oneself eternal, trying to be equal to God without any merit. To want to be equal to God would mean committing the same sin as Lucifer. And there is no forgiveness for Lucifer's sin.
God wanted to be able to forgive man. He wanted to restore immortality, the possession of Heaven, enough Knowledge for our state, Grace, and Himself. So, He embraced judgment as a means to save. He established death to grant Life. He allowed the exile to provide an eternal Homeland. He gave—and here is the start of a lesson that keeps coming up—He gave the Law instead of the unmerited Knowledge lost when Grace died in man's heart. The Law is a fruit, a consequence of Sin.
Sin dulled man's ability to distinguish good from evil and destroyed his integrity. Like smoke, it clouded the truth. Like noise, it drowned out the divine voice heard on those fresh evenings in the beautiful Eden. After falling from being a sinless child of God to a mere rational animal, man instinctively felt that killing must be "evil" and that shameful lust must be wrong. But he didn't know where to draw the line between the evil of killing and the lusts most hated by God.
That is why, after punishing the world with the Flood, God provided the first guidelines to reduce violence (like the prohibition against eating blood). Later, He dealt with the scattering of nations and the confusion of languages, which set the stage for future kingdoms and wars that still plague us. He again used fire from the sky for Sodom and other sinful cities. Having given the righteous Abraham a clearer law of submission to the Lord, He called Moses and, through successive commands, led him to offer the first Passover, a lasting sacrifice for all ages. In a moment of grace, the one-year-old lamb was replaced by God's own Lamb, the continuous Sacrifice on all altars throughout the ages. From that Passover law, Moses was led to the Ten Commandments.
But there would be no Ten Commandments if reason always ruled over the senses—that is, if sin hadn't occurred in Eden. There would be no Law if the loss of Grace and Innocence, and subsequently Knowledge, hadn't come from the disorder of the senses. The Decalogue is both mercy and punishment. Mercy for the weak, and punishment for those who mock God by doing evil while knowing exactly what they are doing.
Actually, the Bible says the forbidden tree was the tree of
knowledge, specifically knowledge. If something went wrong with knowledge, then it was solely because man—just one man, Adam—acquired knowledge he wasn't supposed to have.
But it feels like a
trap. Why would God put a tree there and then say it's off-limits? It seems like a cruel game, almost like experimenting on people, like putting a toy in front of a child and telling them they aren't allowed to touch it.
