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Why doesn't God share His knowledge?

Started by Susan Green15 · · 👁 21 views · 659 replies

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Participants Susan Green15Mark Fostercopperdrifter26Lisa Morales4rowdyraven13Benjamin Taylor6Anthony Perez9wearyowl29Nancy Williams58electriccrane80analogstag29Paul Anderson2hiddenbear3Joseph Ward2Gerald Robertsrapidbear65Ronald Nelson2Zachary Gonzalez8Nancy Wilson2Olivia Kern3blueeagle22Lisa Bailey5electricranger16Kyle White7 …
Nancy Wilson2 Nancy Wilson2 Active Member
73 messages
joined Sep 2011
#481 ·
bluebison25 said:I’m dealing with the exact same virus issue. I’m using Firefox.

Dead for a few hours? Look, I haven't been there myself, but I know people who were hovering right on the edge for two or three minutes. That’s just my take on it. I am 100% certain that death is nothing more than eternal rest, which is why you have to fight like hell to stay alive as long as possible. It’s a proven fact that keeping the mind sharp through constant learning—even when you're in your 80s, 90s, or 100s—boosts brain activity. It basically extends your "lifespan" and helps ward off Alzheimer's.🙂

Likewise.

Dead for a few hours? I haven't experienced that personally—though I certainly know people who have hovered on that threshold for a few minutes, right around that two-to-three-minute mark. If I say that, it is simply my own reflection on the matter. And I am one hundred percent certain of this: death is nothing more than eternal rest.

I’m inclined to believe there is absolutely something more going on here—something substantial, at the very least. As for who is actually holding the correct position? That remains to be seen. 🤣
I wouldn't exactly be complaining if we were talking about eternal rest—honestly, I think I’d come out on top regardless, and eternal rest is certainly an option. :P
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#482 ·
I guess you and I are never going to settle who’s actually right here. What’s your take? haha. We'll only find out if you happen to be right and we're both fully aware of it 🙂
Nancy Wilson2 Nancy Wilson2 Active Member
73 messages
joined Sep 2011
#483 ·
Perhaps... or in the unlikely event that science actually manages to uncover the truth regarding what consciousness truly is—where it originates and where it ultimately returns.
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#484 ·
bluebison25 said:You all seem a bit lost when it comes to distinguishing fact from fiction, but whatever. I’m currently reading a solid critique that dismisses Ivancic’s "book" about Jesus of Nazareth being a Historical figure as nothing more than a fairy tale, systematically tearing down every supposed "proof" and witness. Like Anthony Perez9 pointed out earlier, the only "historians" who would ever try to prove the existence of the supernatural are theologians—people who, much like yourselves, can't tell the difference between reality and make-believe. 🙂

...so, when are you actually going to provide a definition of reality that isn't just some New Age platitude? 🤣

Ivancic isn't claiming Jesus wasn't a historical figure; he's arguing that certain Jewish groups at the time denied He was the Messiah. It's typical to swap terms around like that, but I'm glad you finally realized that original sin isn't about geography or cardinal directions—it's about the Fall itself. 😉
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#485 ·
Harold Doyle3 said:🙂
"In the beginning was the Word..." right?

But how do you actually express yourself through language?
( If you say "I"... well, everyone with even a shred of self-awareness says "I," yet every single "I" is unique... or is it?)
And what about people living with split personalities?

Are we expressing ourselves through others, while they express themselves through us?
Isn't that just one big circle?


Benjamin Taylor6 said:Harold Doyle3 says:
Reality itself is just a construct born from human imagination and thought.
(we operate under the assumption that what we perceive as reality actually *is* reality)
Plato's cave

Reality is a shadow. Reality is a cave. But honestly, none of that matters in this specific context:

I’ve always preferred expressing my own truth a bit differently—mostly by swearing like a drunken sailor. 😲

There was this Zen master named Hogen who lived a solitary life in a small temple out in the sticks. One day, four traveling monks show up at his doorstep asking to light a fire in his courtyard just to warm themselves up.
While they’re busy tending the flames, Hogen overhears them bickering about subjectivity versus objectivity. He decides to jump into the fray and asks, "Take this large stone here. In your estimation, does it reside within your mind or outside of it?"
One of the monks replies, "From a Buddhist perspective, everything is an objectification of the mind, so I would say that stone exists within my mind."
"Your head must be incredibly heavy," Hogen remarks, "if you're carrying a stone like that everywhere you go."
There's actually a second part to that story.
The master adds, "So, you believe everything is an illusion—an objectification of the mind—just like this brick I'm holding in my hand while you hold it in your mind?" Then, he drops the brick right on the student's foot, sending him hopping around and howling in pain.
"Why all the shouting and jumping," Hogen asks, "if this brick is nothing more than a figment of your own mind?"

Rorty was mostly trying to say that a "stone" or "bread" exists in its own right, but only because we've assigned those specific names to them within the framework of language.🤔
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#486 ·
silentridge8 said:...so, when are you actually going to provide a definition of reality that isn't just some New Age platitude? 🤣

Ivancic isn't claiming Jesus wasn't a historical figure; he's arguing that certain Jewish groups at the time denied He was the Messiah. It's typical to swap terms around like that, but I'm glad you finally realized that original sin isn't about geography or cardinal directions—it's about the Fall itself. 😉


?
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#487 ·
Paul Anderson2 said:I don't know, I can't really get behind that idea.

It’s pretty common for people to resort to descriptive rambling when they can't find the actual word or specific name for something. Like, you know that thing—the part that sits on top and keeps everything from spilling out? Well, that thing broke, and that's why...

True, but imagine if an abstract concept simply lacks a word entirely (for context, think about how some might claim there are dozens of different words for "snow" in the Inuit language). Rorty argues that if there's no word, then the concept essentially doesn't exist. He takes it to an extreme because his whole goal is to shake off what we might call a sort of neo-Platonism.
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#488 ·
bluebison25 said: ?

I can't say I'm surprised by this one. 🙂

If someone spends their time writing books exploring whether a historical figure actually lived up to an idealized version of themselves, then writing a book just to claim "that ideal isn't historical" is nothing more than a joke. 🙂

It's like if someone wrote a whole book about how powerful a Mercedes-Benz engine is based on the specs on the official Mercedes-Benz website, and then I decided to write a book titled "Mercedes-Benz doesn't exist." 😂
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#489 ·
silentridge8 said:I can't say I'm surprised by this one. 🙂

If someone spends their time writing books exploring whether a historical figure actually lived up to an idealized version of themselves, then writing a book just to claim "that ideal isn't historical" is nothing more than a joke. 🙂

It's like if someone wrote a whole book about how powerful a Mercedes-Benz engine is based on the specs on the official Mercedes-Benz website, and then I decided to write a book titled "Mercedes-Benz doesn't exist." 😂

Look, I wasn't planning on arguing with you about this, but I don't want to come off as rude, so here's the bottom line: Ivancic wrote that book right here under this title. In it, Ivancic lists all the "irrefutable evidence" proving that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. I actually did some digging and found a text that takes every single one of Ivancic's "proofs" and explains them for what they actually are—no twisting facts, no lies, and no religious dogma—and every single piece of evidence points away from Jesus existing. But honestly, it doesn't matter; you're already convinced Ivancic is right, and that's clearly the only thing you care about. 👍
Paul Anderson2 Paul Anderson2 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#490 ·
Nancy Wilson2 said:Perhaps... or in the unlikely event that science actually manages to uncover the truth regarding what consciousness truly is—where it originates and where it ultimately returns.

I guess that'll be figured out too, though I don't think it's really going anywhere or returning from anywhere. It’s more like it just... "appears" and then "fades."
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#491 ·
If you ask me, consciousness isn't just matter. That’s how you define matter, anyway. Which means consciousness simply flickers in and out of existence 🙂—it can't just morph into some other state of being.
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#492 ·
bluebison25 said:Look, I wasn't planning on arguing with you about this, but I don't want to come off as rude, so here's the bottom line: Ivancic wrote that book right here under this title. In it, Ivancic lists all the "irrefutable evidence" proving that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. I actually did some digging and found a text that takes every single one of Ivancic's "proofs" and explains them for what they actually are—no twisting facts, no lies, and no religious dogma—and every single piece of evidence points away from Jesus existing. But honestly, it doesn't matter; you're already convinced Ivancic is right, and that's clearly the only thing you care about. 👍

I find it strange how much you're struggling to grasp this. Ivancicev's book isn't actually trying to prove Jesus was a historical person; writing a book based on the idea that ivanci-pise-krivo-jer-isus-nije-postojao is just kind of ridiculous. His main point is simply highlighting how the same small group of people keeps pushing the narrative that Jesus never existed in the first place. 🙂
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#493 ·
I honestly don't get why you're giving me such a hard time:

"After thousands of years of fanaticism—generations upon generations of Christian apologists, theologians, priests, and monks grinding away, all backed by massive amounts of Vatican money—we finally get this little booklet claiming to be the ultimate proof that Jesus Christ was a real historical figure. I’m looking at 'Jesus of Nazareth as a Historical Figure' by Tomislav Ivančić, a doctor of theology from the famous Gregorian University in Rome, just to show you how they approach the whole debate over whether Jesus actually existed. This tiny book tries to answer the single question that holds the entire Church and all organized religion together: What do we actually know for sure about Jesus of Nazareth, the man who declared himself the Christ - Messiah? Are there any eyewitness accounts from the Age of Jesus at all? Positive or negative, it doesn't matter. "

That's the intro to a book that takes every single one of Tomislav Ivančić's 'proofs' and lays them out with a solid historical breakdown. Do you see what I'm getting at here??
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#494 ·
I mentioned a certain story a while back, but looking at things now, it actually fits much better into the bigger picture:
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#495 ·
Paul Anderson2 said:I guess that'll be figured out too, though I don't think it's really going anywhere or returning from anywhere. It’s more like it just... "appears" and then "fades."

http://www.webstilus.net/content/view/5703/67/

A LETTER TO A MORTAL
----------------



One of his disciples—someone facing their final moments—once penned a letter from Bassui that read something like this: "The essence of your spirit was never actually born, which is why it can never truly die. It isn't some fleeting existence with an expiration date. Nor is it a void, just a hollow emptiness. It has no color, no shape, no physical form. It doesn't chase after pleasure, nor does it suffer through pain. I know you are gravely ill right now. But as a true student of the Way, you are facing this illness with courage. You might not even be certain who the one suffering actually is, but ask yourself this: What is the core essence of this spirit? Just focus on that. Nothing else will matter. Don't reach for anything else. Your end, which is actually without end, is much like a single snowflake dissolving into the pure, open air."
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#496 ·
Look, man, nobody is whispering in anyone's ear. There are smart people and there are idiots; all it takes is one tiny spark to send someone spiraling into total madness or turning them into a world-class genius. That Freddy Hoyle guy might have been brilliant in a lot of ways, but he decided his intellect was a gift from God. Honestly, it’s no surprise how things turned out...
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#497 ·
bluebison25 said:I honestly don't get why you're giving me such a hard time:

"After thousands of years of fanaticism—generations upon generations of Christian apologists, theologians, priests, and monks grinding away, all backed by massive amounts of Vatican money—we finally get this little booklet claiming to be the ultimate proof that Jesus Christ was a real historical figure. I’m looking at 'Jesus of Nazareth as a Historical Figure' by Tomislav Ivančić, a doctor of theology from the famous Gregorian University in Rome, just to show you how they approach the whole debate over whether Jesus actually existed. This tiny book tries to answer the single question that holds the entire Church and all organized religion together: What do we actually know for sure about Jesus of Nazareth, the man who declared himself the Christ - Messiah? Are there any eyewitness accounts from the Age of Jesus at all? Positive or negative, it doesn't matter. "

That's the intro to a book that takes every single one of Tomislav Ivančić's 'proofs' and lays them out with a solid historical breakdown. Do you see what I'm getting at here??


The real question is why you refuse to trust established historical science. Once you mention Elaine Pagels and Barbara Walker, it’s pretty clear we're talking about the Zeitgeist crowd. Even the most hardcore atheists tend to stay far away from that group. 🙂
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#498 ·
bluebison25 said:Look, man, nobody is whispering in anyone's ear. There are smart people and there are idiots; all it takes is one tiny spark to send someone spiraling into total madness or turning them into a world-class genius. That Freddy Hoyle guy might have been brilliant in a lot of ways, but he decided his intellect was a gift from God. Honestly, it’s no surprise how things turned out...

Whispering in someone's ear is a dangerous game. You never know if you're getting a whisper of truth or just pure, unadulterated lunacy. 🙂🙂😁
An example of a crazy whisper? Like, figuring out how to deploy phosgene in the NYC subway system. 😲
image

Now, an example of a good whisper: How to fuse helium into beryllium and then somehow get carbon out of that (it's right there on the chalkboard).
image

As for those scientific sources of "good" whispers, look at:
image
bluebison25 bluebison25 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2012
#499 ·
@silentridge8: It’s not just about that one video (Zeitgeist). Sure, it might spark some logical thinking, but frankly, I couldn't care less what those people actually do. Take this text, for example—it tackles the whole issue head-on. Even if you won't bother clicking the link, let alone reading it, it doesn't matter. Just look at the bibliography at the bottom; it's massive, and every single book is backed by solid historical and scientific evidence. No question about it.

@Benjamin Taylor6: How exactly are you defining a calling? Look, I have a friend who's heading into the ministry because he claims he heard God's call. Personally, I think he's lying to himself; that "calling" exists solely inside his own head.
silentridge8 silentridge8 Active Member
231 messages
joined Jun 2007
#500 ·
bluebison25 said:@silentridge8: It’s not just about that one video (Zeitgeist). Sure, it might spark some logical thinking, but frankly, I couldn't care less what those people actually do. Take this text, for example—it tackles the whole issue head-on. Even if you won't bother clicking the link, let alone reading it, it doesn't matter. Just look at the bibliography at the bottom; it's massive, and every single book is backed by solid historical and scientific evidence. No question about it.

@Benjamin Taylor6: How exactly are you defining a calling? Look, I have a friend who's heading into the ministry because he claims he heard God's call. Personally, I think he's lying to himself; that "calling" exists solely inside his own head.

I referred to the Zeitgeist crowd because that assessment is spot on, considering the author of this article relies on roughly the same sources used by the people who made Zeitgeist.

I also mentioned journalist Barbara Walker and Elaine Pagels, both of whom are explicitly cited in the bibliography at the end of the piece. This article you shared comes from Kenneth Humphreys' site, which is all about promoting atheism. Honestly, reading through his page, I can't quite wrap my head around his agenda. What exactly is the goal of promoting atheism by trying to "prove" that Jesus never existed?

Like I said, it's always the same old tired argument claiming Jesus isn't a historical figure, and they always recycle the exact same "evidence."

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