silentridge8 said:If you were actually paying attention to that part of the conversation, it would be clear I wasn't claiming anything beyond the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure—nothing more, nothing less. What you wrote about there being multiple "schools of thought" doesn't really align with my point: most historians agree that Jesus was a Jew living in the first century who was regarded as a teacher and was crucified.
Furthermore, there's always that inevitable little clique of fanatics who can't distinguish one concept from another and refuse to actually listen to anyone else, preferring to offer their own "analyses" while talking down to everyone.
For instance, one detail that's hard to reconcile is how quickly Jesus was taken down from the cross. Usually, people left on crosses were left for days as a warning—kind of like how public hangings later on would leave bodies exposed by the roadside until they practically rotted away.
It's unusual, though there is mention of a burial after the crucifixion. My point was mainly that a lack of clarity doesn't mean a historical person didn't exist. But then again, like you said, that's moving into OT territory.
Sure, you could claim Briar Rose existed too, but maybe back it up with something. ☕
What you wrote about there being multiple currents doesn't match what I said:
which is:
that most historians believe Jesus was a Jew living in the first century, considered a teacher and crucified.
Believe?
Hardly.
If you actually ask them, most historians will tell you they don't have an issue with some Jew existing who might vaguely align with the person described in the New Testament. There were plenty of those radical street preachers running around back then, and Flavius writes about them.
It's a different thing when a small group of fanatics who can't distinguish terms and refuse to listen to others act like they're doing deep analysis while talking down to everyone.
But
YOU'RE the one failing to distinguish between "a historical figure" and "the idea that someone similar might have existed."
It’s a little trick theologians like Ivancic love using to push the idea that Jesus of Nazareth is a historical figure—basically trying to manufacture a scientific consensus to put him on the same level as, say, Caesar or Aristotle.
Unusual, though, that there's a burial after the crucifixion.
? Usually, they just tossed people into unmarked mass graves to make sure the shame was public and served as a warning.
What I mainly meant was that uncertainty doesn't mean a historical person didn't exist.
A historical person can't "not exist" (unless it turns out the evidence was fake or totally misread later). But
Jesus is not a historical person. Someone similar might have been around, but maybe not. The Catechism or various religious pamphlets claim He is a historical figure, but He isn't, because there's zero scientifically acceptable proof for it.
Maybe God "granted certain people the knowledge" that Jesus was a real figure back in Israel, but mainstream science doesn't buy it, and frankly, it isn't convincing from a historical standpoint either.