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Gold: Past, Present, and Future

Started by Melissa Sanchez17 · · 👁 116 views · 3K replies

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Participants Melissa Sanchez17dustyheron5quiettrucker12Anthony Evans78Sean Carteranalogharbor44feralpuma12ironstag8Amanda Carter7lonehawk5briskjackal5Andrew Barrett4Dennis Fisher5granitegull51Zachary Mendoza2Christian Miller14neondriver5George Sullivan902nimblepanther18Jerry Wright6Patrick Moore3wearygull4Taylor Robinson51wearyotter36 …
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2361 ·
Patrick Moore3 said:Yeah, right... like we should just blindly trust your "experts."

Or you?

🙂

🙂

I agree—everyone needs to do their own due diligence. Don't take anyone at their word—that includes my advice, Fedov, GSove, or anyone else. That has always been my stance.

However, as you might have noticed in the discussion regarding foreign capital markets—my calls tend to yield more profit than loss in most instances.

As for gold and silver, my position hasn't changed: they are still in a secular bull market. I remain very bullish on gold, and even more so on silver.😉
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2362 ·
Is there actually a recovery happening in the US? It seems pretty obvious that Federal Reserve officials have been massaging the data just to make their deception easier to swallow. 😁
You can't help but wonder—where did all those positive trends go? All that optimism the official statistics and the Federal Reserve served up during the pre-election period?

http://www.benzinga.com/markets/bond...ries-to-blame#

If anyone is confused about why the US market keeps climbing, here is the logic:
A retail investor calls his brokerage firm: "Why is the market opening higher?" The brokerage firm replies: "Oh, because the US economy just contracted."

Naturally, the usual suspects are already jumping in to spin this as a positive development—it’s like listening to some government official like Vrdoljak try to justify a disaster. 😂
http://www.businessinsider.com/today...hat-bad-2013-1
Melissa Sanchez17 Melissa Sanchez17 RegularOP
359 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2363 ·
dustyheron5 said:Is there actually a recovery happening in the US? It seems pretty obvious that Federal Reserve officials have been massaging the data just to make their deception easier to swallow. 😁
You can't help but wonder—where did all those positive trends go? All that optimism the official statistics and the Federal Reserve served up during the pre-election period?

http://www.benzinga.com/markets/bond...ries-to-blame#

If anyone is confused about why the US market keeps climbing, here is the logic:
A retail investor calls his brokerage firm: "Why is the market opening higher?" The brokerage firm replies: "Oh, because the US economy just contracted."

Naturally, the usual suspects are already jumping in to spin this as a positive development—it’s like listening to some government official like Vrdoljak try to justify a disaster. 😂
http://www.businessinsider.com/today...hat-bad-2013-1

Yeah. The data they're putting out is bizarre. On one hand, you've got unemployment dropping and a supposed housing recovery, but then on the other, record numbers of people relying on food stamps and a shrinking GDP. It doesn't add up. The FOMC meets today, but there's nothing on the schedule about Ben speaking.😉
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2364 ·
Melissa Sanchez17 said:Yeah. The data they're putting out is bizarre. On one hand, you've got unemployment dropping and a supposed housing recovery, but then on the other, record numbers of people relying on food stamps and a shrinking GDP. It doesn't add up. The FOMC meets today, but there's nothing on the schedule about Ben speaking.😉


Look, I'm worried you aren't seeing the full picture here😁—that decline is actually a positive indicator because it sets the stage for massive quarter-over-quarter growth next term. Of course, if they decide to drop enough bombs globally, the recovery could be nothing short of spectacular 😍

Just so nobody thinks I'm just talking out of thin air, here is a link to back my point: 👍
http://www.businessinsider.com/analyves-strong-2013-1
quiettrucker12 quiettrucker12 Regular
375 messages
joined Sep 2004
#2365 ·
Ben Bernanke interview
quiettrucker12 quiettrucker12 Regular
375 messages
joined Sep 2004
#2366 ·
I think things are starting to clear up a bit. Gold managed to bounce back above the 10 and 200 DMA, and we established a new higher low on January 28th. In my book, gold absolutely cannot drop below that January 28th level.

The big picture looks a lot like what we saw back in the summer of 2012:

100 wma, 75 wma

100 wma, 10 wma
Ashley Thompson10 Ashley Thompson10 Member
22 messages
joined Jan 2012
#2367 ·
When you actually sit down and watch the news, it’s hard to ignore the red flags. There are so many indicators suggesting the US economy is sliding, and frankly, our current footing feels incredibly shaky. We're seeing unemployment numbers being massaged right before elections, even though we had that 0.1% dip in Q4 despite the Quantitative Easing stimulus. Now, there's just more talk about printing money through further QE. Meanwhile, the middle class is being hollowed out, student debt is bloated to the point of total collapse, and banks are basically creative accounting their way through foreclosures—treating properties that should be underwater as if everything is perfectly fine. On top of that, look at the global stage: major economies are either already deep in aggressive QE and interventionism, like Japan and China, or they’ll be forced to follow suit very soon, much like the European Union.

By any standard economic logic, we should be seeing inflation by now.
Yet, despite all the noise, the markets seem stuck obsessing over late 2011 price levels, and so far, we haven't seen any significant spike. People have been shouting about it and predicting it for years, but as of today, it hasn't materialized.

It makes me wonder if there’s some sort of invisible threshold—a tipping point where inflation stops being a slow, linear crawl and suddenly hits a step function. Could it be that inflation stays stagnant at around 2.5% for months, only to suddenly teleport to 6% or 8% and then rocket upward from there? After all, inflation reporting isn't some daily heartbeat; it's a quarterly snapshot.

From my perspective, those in power have zero incentive to announce high inflation. If they did, you'd see a massive flight of capital into any asset people hope will hold its value—think real estate, precious metals, oil, or food futures. At the same time, consumer spending would crater because people, terrified of losing their purchasing power, would start hoarding cash. That would tank stock prices just as interest rates rise for the corporations trying to produce goods. That's my take on why there's this "threshold" effect and why we're currently just muddling along in this strange limbo.
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2368 ·
Ashley Thompson10 said:When you actually sit down and watch the news, it’s hard to ignore the red flags. There are so many indicators suggesting the US economy is sliding, and frankly, our current footing feels incredibly shaky. We're seeing unemployment numbers being massaged right before elections, even though we had that 0.1% dip in Q4 despite the Quantitative Easing stimulus. Now, there's just more talk about printing money through further QE. Meanwhile, the middle class is being hollowed out, student debt is bloated to the point of total collapse, and banks are basically creative accounting their way through foreclosures—treating properties that should be underwater as if everything is perfectly fine. On top of that, look at the global stage: major economies are either already deep in aggressive QE and interventionism, like Japan and China, or they’ll be forced to follow suit very soon, much like the European Union.

By any standard economic logic, we should be seeing inflation by now.
Yet, despite all the noise, the markets seem stuck obsessing over late 2011 price levels, and so far, we haven't seen any significant spike. People have been shouting about it and predicting it for years, but as of today, it hasn't materialized.

It makes me wonder if there’s some sort of invisible threshold—a tipping point where inflation stops being a slow, linear crawl and suddenly hits a step function. Could it be that inflation stays stagnant at around 2.5% for months, only to suddenly teleport to 6% or 8% and then rocket upward from there? After all, inflation reporting isn't some daily heartbeat; it's a quarterly snapshot.

From my perspective, those in power have zero incentive to announce high inflation. If they did, you'd see a massive flight of capital into any asset people hope will hold its value—think real estate, precious metals, oil, or food futures. At the same time, consumer spending would crater because people, terrified of losing their purchasing power, would start hoarding cash. That would tank stock prices just as interest rates rise for the corporations trying to produce goods. That's my take on why there's this "threshold" effect and why we're currently just muddling along in this strange limbo.

The primary reason we aren't seeing noticeable inflation IN OFFICIAL STATISTICS😉 is the diversion of capital from the private sector into the public sector... or rather, the looting😍 of the private sector by the government through financial repression... combined with a lack of velocity—essentially, a low money velocity—stemming from debt-driven deflation and ongoing uncertainty.

On the flip side, the inflation affecting assets that citizens and companies actually need is quite high—significantly higher than what official statistics show... while simultaneously, assets held by the private sector, particularly individuals, are undergoing intense deflation.

We will see how this plays out—though certainly not anytime soon. 🤣
Richard Perez3 Richard Perez3 Active Member
215 messages
joined Dec 2014
#2369 ·
Pfft!

😬

Alright, look, aside from the fact that gold just took a massive dump, can someone who actually knows what they're talking about explain this whole mess like I'm five? 🙂

Like, give me some actual logic, such as "it's dropping because of X" or "I think it might bounce back due to Y and Z."

Please, I'm genuinely trying to keep up here, but I have zero clue what all this insider jargon you guys are throwing around even means. 😢
ironstag8 ironstag8 Active Member
105 messages
joined Apr 2019
#2370 ·
Look, my strategy is pretty straightforward—hold onto some physical gold and silver, but keep enough paper assets on hand to maintain a decent standard of living while we wait for the system to eventually buckle. As for when that collapse actually happens? Honestly, trying to pin down whether it’ll be in a year, two, or five is a fool's errand; it's just too volatile to call. That’s how I’m playing it, though—just sitting back and keeping a close eye on 🍿
.
analogharbor44 analogharbor44 Active Member
126 messages
joined Jan 2012
#2371 ·
ironstag8 said:Look, my strategy is pretty straightforward—hold onto some physical gold and silver, but keep enough paper assets on hand to maintain a decent standard of living while we wait for the system to eventually buckle. As for when that collapse actually happens? Honestly, trying to pin down whether it’ll be in a year, two, or five is a fool's errand; it's just too volatile to call. That’s how I’m playing it, though—just sitting back and keeping a close eye on 🍿
.

You might wake up one day in a nursing home and go, "Hey, look, the system actually collapsed—I've been shouting about this my entire life!" 😂

But seriously though!
If the entire global system actually collapsed, we'd be looking at World War III. You really think that's happening? I don't think so!
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2372 ·
Good grief... how did we pivot so fast from talking about a phenomenal recovery to staring down the barrel of another recession?🙂
And how is it that the drop in gold prices was blamed on that very same recovery, yet now they claim the decline is happening because the US might be sliding into a recession?😍
http://www.businessinsider.com/art-c...-signal-2013-1
The year-over-year change in real GDP was 1.5 percent. There has never been a time since measurement commenced in 1948 when the annual pace of real GDP has fallen that low without the economy ultimately slipping into recession. Sub-2.0 percent readings are historically the warning signal.

I'm worried—if Art Cashin is right—that they won't just need this measly $1.1 trillion little helping hand, but will actually require QE5, QE6, and even QE7.... 😂
Taylor Robinson51 Taylor Robinson51 Member
23 messages
joined Feb 2012
#2373 ·
Ashley Thompson10 said:When you actually sit down and watch the news, it’s hard to ignore the red flags. There are so many indicators suggesting the US economy is sliding, and frankly, our current footing feels incredibly shaky. We're seeing unemployment numbers being massaged right before elections, even though we had that 0.1% dip in Q4 despite the Quantitative Easing stimulus. Now, there's just more talk about printing money through further QE. Meanwhile, the middle class is being hollowed out, student debt is bloated to the point of total collapse, and banks are basically creative accounting their way through foreclosures—treating properties that should be underwater as if everything is perfectly fine. On top of that, look at the global stage: major economies are either already deep in aggressive QE and interventionism, like Japan and China, or they’ll be forced to follow suit very soon, much like the European Union.

By any standard economic logic, we should be seeing inflation by now.
Yet, despite all the noise, the markets seem stuck obsessing over late 2011 price levels, and so far, we haven't seen any significant spike. People have been shouting about it and predicting it for years, but as of today, it hasn't materialized.

It makes me wonder if there’s some sort of invisible threshold—a tipping point where inflation stops being a slow, linear crawl and suddenly hits a step function. Could it be that inflation stays stagnant at around 2.5% for months, only to suddenly teleport to 6% or 8% and then rocket upward from there? After all, inflation reporting isn't some daily heartbeat; it's a quarterly snapshot.

From my perspective, those in power have zero incentive to announce high inflation. If they did, you'd see a massive flight of capital into any asset people hope will hold its value—think real estate, precious metals, oil, or food futures. At the same time, consumer spending would crater because people, terrified of losing their purchasing power, would start hoarding cash. That would tank stock prices just as interest rates rise for the corporations trying to produce goods. That's my take on why there's this "threshold" effect and why we're currently just muddling along in this strange limbo.


While people like to call this Quantitative Easing "money printing," that isn't quite accurate. It’s not classic printing; it’s more like swapping out various low-value bonds for cold hard cash. These bonds are mostly sold to financial institutions—think big banks, pension funds, and investment firms—which then funnel that liquidity elsewhere. Since banks aren't exactly heading down to Walmart to stock up on bread and milk, this money doesn't actually trickle down to the average person. The velocity of money is catastrophically low. We are just seeing a massive accumulation of cash that has nowhere to go except into a handful of sectors, creating localized bubbles... inflation exists, but only within a few isolated markets.

Government bonds are currently the primary bubble. They have never been this expensive in history. In my view, we are also seeing a massive bubble forming in the stock market. The indices in the US and Germany are way beyond any reasonable level when you consider the actual state of the economy. On top of that, real estate prices are climbing again—specifically high-end properties and those suitable for quality rentals...

Global inflation only triggers when that massive money supply actually hits the pockets of everyday Americans, which hasn't happened yet. The most likely scenario? That excess cash currently sitting in the hands of financial institutions gets dumped into speculation on oil, food, energy, and metals... driving up the price of basic necessities. Once that happens, people will revolt, demanding higher wages and better benefits. If the government gives in... we'll slide into an inflationary spiral in the blink of an eye.

This isn't some far-fetched scenario at all. Over these last five years of crisis, the American middle class—especially over here—has already seen its purchasing power gutted by stagnant wages and real inflation sitting at at least 3%. Any significant spike in the price of essentials, say around 20%, would trigger a massive crisis. Even in the US, where nearly a quarter of workers earn less than the poverty line for a family of four—roughly $24,000 a year...

The only real question left is when that massive flood of free cash is going to trigger a commodities bubble. It will likely happen once every other way to make money—stocks, bonds, even real estate—has been completely exhausted...
Robert Vaughn10 Robert Vaughn10 Regular
308 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2374 ·
analogharbor44 said:You might wake up one day in a nursing home and go, "Hey, look, the system actually collapsed—I've been shouting about this my entire life!" 😂

But seriously though!
If the entire global system actually collapsed, we'd be looking at World War III. You really think that's happening? I don't think so!

That's quite an argument. Just because you don't want something to happen doesn't mean it won't. My father used to say the same thing to me...
It keeps rolling along, right up until it rolls off the edge.😉
Robert Vaughn10 Robert Vaughn10 Regular
308 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2375 ·
I should probably mention one thing here. Early on in these forums, Massimo provided plenty of arguments against the "proof version."
Not that I'm suggesting we blindly follow everything said. I think there’s certainly value in having a proof version at certain points. Absolutely. However, the price for such a coin would have to be higher, so if anyone wants to run the numbers and tell me the percentage, go ahead.
Sure, you could settle for a one-ounce coin, but let's be honest—that "isn't it."😁
On the other hand, I protected my interest in Arsenal by buying a fake silver coin, which I personally verified as counterfeit right then and there. I secured my peace of mind for a very small price, all things considered...
dustyheron5 dustyheron5 Regular
353 messages
joined Nov 2015
#2376 ·
dustyheron5 said:Good grief... how did we pivot so fast from talking about a phenomenal recovery to staring down the barrel of another recession?🙂
And how is it that the drop in gold prices was blamed on that very same recovery, yet now they claim the decline is happening because the US might be sliding into a recession?😍
http://www.businessinsider.com/art-c...-signal-2013-1
The year-over-year change in real GDP was 1.5 percent. There has never been a time since measurement commenced in 1948 when the annual pace of real GDP has fallen that low without the economy ultimately slipping into recession. Sub-2.0 percent readings are historically the warning signal.

I'm worried—if Art Cashin is right—that they won't just need this measly $1.1 trillion little helping hand, but will actually require QE5, QE6, and even QE7.... 😂

A brief addendum to Art Cashin’s piece—this time coming from Graham Summers...😁

A few weeks back, we pointed out that the Great Recession was finally winding down—yesterday’s GDP numbers just hammered that point home.

The US Federal government was engaging in Quantitative Easing during the latter half of 2012—an observation we made quite clearly back then. The US Federal government was engaging in a massive rig—essentially an attempt to mask the true state of affairs—to make the economy look more robust than it actually was, all to bolster the Obama re-election campaign.This trend manifested itself clearly within both the employment figures and the third-quarter GDP report.
The election is finally behind us—and now we’re just left dealing with the hangover. The mainstream media loves to spin the narrative that the fourth-quarter GDP figures are driven by government spending cuts—but the reality tells a different story. In truth, federal outlays actually jumped by 12% during the final quarter of 2012.
The unfortunate reality remains—the US economy is actually in far worse shape than the official data indicates. As we have pointed out previously—the Federal Reserve significantly understates inflation simply to polish the appearance of GDP growth.
Look at the numbers—it’s pretty clear. Today's GDP deflator sits at a measly 0.6%, while actual inflation is hovering much closer to 8%. This means even that -0.14% figure is massively overstating what's actually happening with real growth. If you account for the real increases in the cost of living in the US, GDP actually shrank by well over 1% in the fourth quarter of 2012.
Melissa Sanchez17 Melissa Sanchez17 RegularOP
359 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2377 ·
The reports they're pumping out are just full of oxymorons. I mean, how does GDP drop while employment is supposedly climbing during the same window? It makes zero sense.😕

Given how many people are piling into shorts based on today's numbers, this is definitely going to be bad news for gold.
Patrick Moore3 Patrick Moore3 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jun 2009
#2378 ·
Check the numbers:
2.1.
U.S. Treasury securities 1,662,851
Mortgage-backed securities (4) 926,658
30.1.
U.S. Treasury securities 1,710,058
Mortgage-backed securities (4) 965,784

In January, Ben picked up about 40 trillion USD in MBS and nearly 48 trillion USD in Treasuries... For the first time since QE2 ended, we're seeing a legit expansion of the balance sheet. It's actually even bigger than what was telegraphed, though he probably dumped some stuff yesterday just to stay within his limits...
History says when the balance sheet stays flat, gold climbs... when it grows, gold stalls.
Just curious, what do you guys think is stalling gold right now?

1. Gold has become too "paperized." Nobody's trading physical anymore, so the price doesn't reflect actual supply.
2. Demand is dropping (like with Indians, for example).
3. Gold has decoupled from the dollar. Since the dollar isn't the undisputed king anymore, who cares what the greenback does?
4. QE doesn't touch gold prices because inflation isn't hitting.
5. Manipulation by the big bankers.
6. General market uncertainty.
7. No clue.
8. Something else entirely.
Melissa Sanchez17 Melissa Sanchez17 RegularOP
359 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2379 ·
Patrick Moore3 said:Check the numbers:
2.1.
U.S. Treasury securities 1,662,851
Mortgage-backed securities (4) 926,658
30.1.
U.S. Treasury securities 1,710,058
Mortgage-backed securities (4) 965,784

In January, Ben picked up about 40 trillion USD in MBS and nearly 48 trillion USD in Treasuries... For the first time since QE2 ended, we're seeing a legit expansion of the balance sheet. It's actually even bigger than what was telegraphed, though he probably dumped some stuff yesterday just to stay within his limits...
History says when the balance sheet stays flat, gold climbs... when it grows, gold stalls.
Just curious, what do you guys think is stalling gold right now?

1. Gold has become too "paperized." Nobody's trading physical anymore, so the price doesn't reflect actual supply.
2. Demand is dropping (like with Indians, for example).
3. Gold has decoupled from the dollar. Since the dollar isn't the undisputed king anymore, who cares what the greenback does?
4. QE doesn't touch gold prices because inflation isn't hitting.
5. Manipulation by the big bankers.
6. General market uncertainty.
7. No clue.
8. Something else entirely.

2) Wrong—any surplus from the Indians is just gonna get swallowed up by the Chinese.
3) Wrong—the dollar is still the reserve currency, deal with it.
4) Wrong—gold prices are absolutely tied to inflation.

The rest is just noise.😍
Melissa Sanchez17 Melissa Sanchez17 RegularOP
359 messages
joined Feb 2019
#2380 ·
Pre-game vibes for the Nonfarm Payrolls report:

Goldman Sachs Chief Economist Maury Harris is calling for 192,000
Citigroup Chief U. S. Economist Robert DiClemente is leaning toward 190,000
Morgan Stanley Chief Economic Strategist Andrew Wilkinson thinks we'll see 180,000
Deutsche Bank Chief US Economist Joseph A. LaVorgna is sitting at 170,000
Bank of America Merrill Lynch Co-Head of Global Economic Research Ethan Harris is feeling much more conservative with 130,000

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