Gold: Past, Present, and Future

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...y-negotiations

I’ll say it again: silver is the play here. Nobody can predict what the Fed will decide to do twenty years from now. Since we're all getting paid in fiat, holding precious metals is a sensible hedge. On a twenty-year horizon, the current entry point looks decent. Regarding July, President Trump has gone on Twitter at least four or five times to complain that the Chinese are pumping liquidity into the system and that the dollar is too strong. That kind of repetition matters. So does how long they’ve been stalling on this trade deal. A quick side note on Bitcoin: it climbed from roughly $3k to $14k at one point. That wasn't a bubble bursting; it was anything but. Meanwhile, gold is hitting all-time highs in pounds. Same goes for the Euro. Looking at the Euro-Dollar relationship, it's hard to argue that gold isn't doing its job.

"We'll see."

Michael Morgan5 said:Thanks.
An $8 price difference isn't worth it when you factor in the hit I'll take on the currency conversion; for me, the US is the obvious first choice here.

I'm asking because I’m still weighing whether I should pull the trigger and sell now or just hold steady until March.

I honestly don't follow you at all—where do you live, where do you work, and what currency are you actually getting paid in?

I mean, if you get paid in dollars, convert them to euros, and then have to deal with the exchange rate back to dollars again, of course the conversion fees make it expensive! 😵

Unless you’re operating entirely within California and selling your services or products in euros, you’re basically an outlier here.

Here is how I see the math playing out:
Canada toll - $38
Austria toll - $20
Gas - $133
Car depreciation - $67
Time spent driving - $167

Total cost - $425

Even if we toss that last time factor out the window, you're still looking at a massive $258 loss!

Look, maybe you're buying gold bullion by the pound, but if you're a regular person just picking up a few ounces here and there, I truly don't see how anyone could justify driving all the way to Austria for it!
But none of that even matters since you mentioned whether they ask for ID—which implies you're buying less than $10,000 worth of gold when heading to Austria. Again, your math is completely broken to me.

I get why gold might be 0.5% higher here in the States; that's just the cost of shipping goods to America. And frankly, who cares, because the price of gold could jump significantly in the time it takes me to drive to Austria. You really expect a sane person to waste an entire day driving to Austria just to save 0.5% on coins or maybe 0.2% or 0.3% on 100-gram bars?

Please, walk me through your logic here.

Jonathan Wells2 said:I honestly don't follow you at all—where do you live, where do you work, and what currency are you actually getting paid in?

I mean, if you get paid in dollars, convert them to euros, and then have to deal with the exchange rate back to dollars again, of course the conversion fees make it expensive! 😵

Unless you’re operating entirely within California and selling your services or products in euros, you’re basically an outlier here.

Here is how I see the math playing out:
Canada toll - $38
Austria toll - $20
Gas - $133
Car depreciation - $67
Time spent driving - $167

Total cost - $425

Even if we toss that last time factor out the window, you're still looking at a massive $258 loss!

Look, maybe you're buying gold bullion by the pound, but if you're a regular person just picking up a few ounces here and there, I truly don't see how anyone could justify driving all the way to Austria for it!
But none of that even matters since you mentioned whether they ask for ID—which implies you're buying less than $10,000 worth of gold when heading to Austria. Again, your math is completely broken to me.

I get why gold might be 0.5% higher here in the States; that's just the cost of shipping goods to America. And frankly, who cares, because the price of gold could jump significantly in the time it takes me to drive to Austria. You really expect a sane person to waste an entire day driving to Austria just to save 0.5% on coins or maybe 0.2% or 0.3% on 100-gram bars?

Please, walk me through your logic here.

So, I’m buying less than $10,000 just because I asked about showing an ID?
Honestly, I have no idea how you’re jumping to those conclusions.

There was a time when I used to post photos of my receipts on this thread specifically to deal with people like you, but I just don't have the energy for it anymore.
If you’re really that curious, go back and scroll through the archives from a few years ago.

The logic here is pretty straightforward.

At a bullion bank, you’re paying $10 more per ounce than you would at a place like Sam's Club.
Then, at the bank, you're getting $18 less than you would at Sam's Club. That's an $18 difference—not $8. You can take my word for it, or better yet, after reading your nonsense, I actually went and double-checked the numbers myself.
That means you're essentially throwing $28 per ounce down the drain.
Where exactly are you seeing a 0.5% saving in that? Because your math is completely broken. 😵

And don't even get me started on the fact that the bank's inventory is practically non-existent; I basically have to hand them my cash upfront just to have them source the goods within a week.
In America... yeah, right.

Besides, I'm self-employed and the dollar is only the fourth most common currency I deal with, so I'm not losing money on double conversion fees if I decide to buy gold from some startup that popped up two years ago and offers way worse rates than the big players.
You can dodge the tolls, especially the ones in neighboring states; the ones in Austria aren't worth the hassle anyway.
I have an auto refill setup, but all of that is peanuts compared to a straight $28 loss on every single ounce.

Michael Morgan5 said:So, I’m buying less than $10,000 just because I asked about showing an ID?
Honestly, I have no idea how you’re jumping to those conclusions.

There was a time when I used to post photos of my receipts on this thread specifically to deal with people like you, but I just don't have the energy for it anymore.
If you’re really that curious, go back and scroll through the archives from a few years ago.

The logic here is pretty straightforward.

At a bullion bank, you’re paying $10 more per ounce than you would at a place like Sam's Club.
Then, at the bank, you're getting $18 less than you would at Sam's Club. That's an $18 difference—not $8. You can take my word for it, or better yet, after reading your nonsense, I actually went and double-checked the numbers myself.
That means you're essentially throwing $28 per ounce down the drain.
Where exactly are you seeing a 0.5% saving in that? Because your math is completely broken. 😵

And don't even get me started on the fact that the bank's inventory is practically non-existent; I basically have to hand them my cash upfront just to have them source the goods within a week.
In America... yeah, right.

Besides, I'm self-employed and the dollar is only the fourth most common currency I deal with, so I'm not losing money on double conversion fees if I decide to buy gold from some startup that popped up two years ago and offers way worse rates than the big players.
You can dodge the tolls, especially the ones in neighboring states; the ones in Austria aren't worth the hassle anyway.
I have an auto refill setup, but all of that is peanuts compared to a straight $28 loss on every single ounce.

Michael Morgan5 said:So, I’m buying less than $10,000 just because I asked about showing an ID?
Honestly, I have no idea how you’re jumping to those conclusions.

There was a time when I used to post photos of my receipts on this thread specifically to deal with people like you, but I just don't have the energy for it anymore.
If you’re really that curious, go back and scroll through the archives from a few years ago.

The logic here is pretty straightforward.

At a bullion bank, you’re paying $10 more per ounce than you would at a place like Sam's Club.
Then, at the bank, you're getting $18 less than you would at Sam's Club. That's an $18 difference—not $8. You can take my word for it, or better yet, after reading your nonsense, I actually went and double-checked the numbers myself.
That means you're essentially throwing $28 per ounce down the drain.
Where exactly are you seeing a 0.5% saving in that? Because your math is completely broken. 😵

And don't even get me started on the fact that the bank's inventory is practically non-existent; I basically have to hand them my cash upfront just to have them source the goods within a week.
In America... yeah, right.

Besides, I'm self-employed and the dollar is only the fourth most common currency I deal with, so I'm not losing money on double conversion fees if I decide to buy gold from some startup that popped up two years ago and offers way worse rates than the big players.
You can dodge the tolls, especially the ones in neighboring states; the ones in Austria aren't worth the hassle anyway.
I have an auto refill setup, but all of that is peanuts compared to a straight $28 loss on every single ounce.

If you aren't being secretive, what's the gig that pays that well? I can barely scrape together a few bucks of whatever you've got in your profile pic from my pathetic little paycheck. 😁

Everyone approaches math a little differently... personally, I’d never bother driving all the way to the USA (or even just over to a neighboring state) to pick up gold because, in my view, the math just doesn't add up. For instance, looking at SMH, the current spread for Philharmonic is 1280/1312 USD.
Over at Moro in Washington, D.C., it’s sitting at 1277/1317... so we're talking an $8 difference, which isn't even $20... and even if I were buying 10 units regularly—which rarely happens around here—that's still $200... plus, that's the actual cost just for the round trip to the USA (I have no interest in wandering through the countryside or trying to dodge highway tolls). And don't even get me started on the sheer headache of the drive itself.

In Morocco, they offer different buyback rates if you're bringing in products sourced from other companies.
They handle everything in USD through direct bank transfers.
The last time I checked in with them—which was easily over three years ago—their buyback limit was sitting at $5,000.
You’ll end up driving through Canada on those winding backroads just to avoid that highway project that’s been "under construction" for a century, where they keep slapping 35 mph limits on random stretches.
Before some keyboard warrior jumps down my throat... if that highway actually got finished, my bad.
It's been two years since I've even driven through Canada.

Look, it isn't even a big deal.
Everyone does what works for them, and people are always going to draw conclusions based on their own personal experiences.

Michael Morgan5, my bad. You’re totally right! $30 is a massive chunk of change, but if you have to drive all the way over to Austria twice just to make it work, then what?

The first trip is just to save maybe $10 on the purchase itself.
Then you have to make a second trip just to try and get a better price when you sell it—though I didn't even bother checking that specific price gap.

So, when you factor in the highway tolls and the extra gas from dodging the main roads, I honestly don't think it's worth the hassle of trying to save a few bucks on vignettes.

But hey, look, everyone does their own math and has their own take on things, and I'm just saying that for me, the numbers just don't add up.

I'm not going to drag this debate out any further because there's really no point in arguing.

I wasn't suggesting traveling specifically to hunt for gold. My thought was more about picking up some bullion while I'm already abroad, taking advantage of their local market rates. Since your calculations for profitability seem to factor heavily in travel expenses, I've concluded that buying overseas makes much more sense for me. My trips aren't dictated by whether the gold market is hitting a certain price point. Besides, I took some time to run a few comparisons on the pricing myself.
Thanks anyway.

If you’re just picking up a few gold coins, you might as well just buy them right here in New York City.
When you step up to a 1kg bar, though, you're looking at a savings of about $1,000 easy.
Driving down to Austria on your own with a little extra cash in hand will run you maybe $100. So, if you're playing both sides of the trade, call it $200 since you're making the trip twice.
A round-trip flight from New York City to Vienna for two people would set you back roughly $500.
The math is pretty straightforward.
If your goal is simply to walk away with more cash in your pocket after the deal is done, there's no need to overthink the philosophy behind it.

Michael Morgan5 said:If you’re just picking up a few gold coins, you might as well just buy them right here in New York City.
When you step up to a 1kg bar, though, you're looking at a savings of about $1,000 easy.
Driving down to Austria on your own with a little extra cash in hand will run you maybe $100. So, if you're playing both sides of the trade, call it $200 since you're making the trip twice.
A round-trip flight from New York City to Vienna for two people would set you back roughly $500.
The math is pretty straightforward.
If your goal is simply to walk away with more cash in your pocket after the deal is done, there's no need to overthink the philosophy behind it.

I personally paid $185 less in Austria compared to what I would have paid here in the States. I didn't even travel; I just paid $30 for direct shipping to my front door. Even factoring in that shipping cost, a $185 difference is significant...
I don't see any point in wasting time and fuel when you can get doorstep delivery for thirty bucks.
Of course, if you happen to be passing through anyway, that changes the equation...

Which company are we talking about here?

What you’ve laid out sounds pretty decent on paper, assuming the shipping costs don't scale aggressively with the order volume... I mean, unless those fees skyrocket once you hit a certain threshold.

You're missing the other half of the equation, though—the actual sales side of things.
I highly doubt you can make up that difference just by optimizing reverse logistics.

Philoro.
I used to purchase tiles where they would handle shipments valued up to $22,000, and the delivery fee to the States was only $32.

So, if you are looking to move more than $22,000 worth of goods, you could simply split it into two separate shipments and pay $32 for each...

I never acted as a seller myself, nor is that something I could manage through the mail.
When it comes time to sell, you should weigh which option actually makes sense for you.
Whether it is worth driving over to Chicago, or just selling everything right here in America...

A Chinese analyst suggests:



The economic advisors are forecasting a potential currency devaluation within the expected timeframe. Towards the end of the video, there's an explicit directive for crypto traders to watch for these sharp vertical moves. Opportunities with this kind of magnitude don't come around often...

"buy"

Hey everyone, I’ve been scrolling through the last 15 pages or so and I've got a few things on my mind.

1. Everyone keeps talking about these Philharmonic coins. I’ve checked out all the links where people are buying them, but they aren't available here in the States. Does it actually matter which image is on the coin when it comes time to sell?

2. I'm thinking about picking up two or three Philharmonic coins, or maybe just starting with a 1oz bar from an outfit like APMEX, but even they have two different price points listed:

Gold Philharmonic 1/1 - 2019 1.00 oz $1,313.00 $1,344.80

Gold Philharmonic 1/1 - USD 1.00 oz $1,313.00 $1,341.60

Why is one more expensive than the other? It's only a few bucks, but still...

3. A 1oz coin is about ten dollars more than a bar—if they're both the same weight, what's the catch? I'm guessing coins are just easier to flip later on or something...?

Sorry if these sound like rookie questions, I'm just getting my feet wet here.😁

Every year, they drop a new series of Philharmonic coins, and each one is distinct based on its mint date.
The current year's set usually carries a slightly higher premium—maybe a few bucks more than the older ones—but honestly, when you go to sell them, it’s mostly a wash, unless you’ve got a damaged gold coin on your hands.
If you’re just looking to pick up a couple pieces for yourself, I’d say sticking to what Michael Morgan5 suggested is your best bet for value.
Keep in mind that the coins will always command a higher price than the bullion bars because they carry a face value; they function as actual legal tender, which means you’ll get more back when you sell.
I’m a bit lost on your first question, though.
Are you asking about the image on the coin?🤔

Copper has broken through $1,500. 🎉

Michael Morgan5 said:Every year, they drop a new series of Philharmonic coins, and each one is distinct based on its mint date.
The current year's set usually carries a slightly higher premium—maybe a few bucks more than the older ones—but honestly, when you go to sell them, it’s mostly a wash, unless you’ve got a damaged gold coin on your hands.
If you’re just looking to pick up a couple pieces for yourself, I’d say sticking to what Michael Morgan5 suggested is your best bet for value.
Keep in mind that the coins will always command a higher price than the bullion bars because they carry a face value; they function as actual legal tender, which means you’ll get more back when you sell.
I’m a bit lost on your first question, though.
Are you asking about the image on the coin?🤔

Look, give it two years and the price is gonna be dead even for last year's, the year before, and this year's set, so just don't ever buy the current year's release. Wait until next year and grab 'em then. ☕

It has been quite some time since we've seen a move greater than 1% in gold and silver. Could this be the beginning?

dustyheron5 said:Copper has broken through $1,500. 🎉

About a year or so back, our buddy Miomir put out a forecast predicting we'd hit 7k by the end of 2020.
Honestly, I thought he was dreaming (no offense, Miomir 😉 ).
Well, we're getting there, though we're sitting just a tiny bit short of that mark right now.

Look, gold is basically just an investment meant to keep your value steady over the long haul. We're talking 10, 20, maybe even 30 years down the line.

My whole game plan is to make a living just trading, and then take whatever "extra" I pull in and dump it into gold, you know? Just to keep it safe and watch that little pile grow.
It’s definitely easiest if you can just buy stuff online and have it stored right there at the dealer, but I guess what's most convenient isn't always the best deal for your wallet.
If you can swing buying a little bit every single month, it eventually just becomes a habit, and before you know it, that pile starts getting pretty big.