Gold: Past, Present, and Future

Francisco, you completely bypassed that second image I posted—the one that actually provides the direct answer to what you’re arguing here right now.
In a financial setup where money is treated just like any other commodity, it’s only logical that the amount of paper you receive in exchange for gold or silver fluctuates. The real issue is that the entire system is terminally ill—and part of that sickness stems from this flawed idea that precious metals aren't true money (especially when you factor in deficits, endless money printing, fractional reserve banking, and the cozy, unhealthy relationship between politicians and big banks...)
We simply hold a fundamentally different perspective on all of this, and honestly, only time will tell who's actually right.

Let’s look at it this way. You start working in 1995 in an American economy ranked somewhere around 80th in terms of development... thirty years later, the US somehow climbs into the top 20 most developed nations. Do you really expect the average salary you saved back in '95 to carry the same weight as a 2025 salary just because you tucked it away in gold? I don't see any "preservation of value" here; I see massive value pumping.

And where did you get the idea that a rising standard of living automatically means across-the-board raises? Money's worth depends entirely on its purchasing power.

If gold were truly just about preserving the value of your labor, then you should be able to trade that gold for exactly what an average worker in a country with the 1995 American level of development would earn...

It seems you're struggling to grasp—or maybe just unwilling to admit—that gold doesn't just preserve labor value; it actually increases purchasing power. And that has nothing to do with gold itself, but rather with governments destroying paper currencies through inflation.

Or if the US today is somehow comparable to Switzerland in 1964, 😍 then shouldn't we logically expect to live on their 1964 standard of living with their old wages? If a Swiss guy saved his salary in 1964 and it's only worth an American wage today... he lost.

You're mixing apples and oranges again. Read the explanation above.

However, once the speculative component vanishes and shifts into other sectors—like what happened in the '80s and lasted through the '90s—you should expect a drop in value for one simple reason: lower demand. 😍

Maybe spend some time studying recent monetary history. In the mid-to-late '70s, people weren't buying gold and silver to speculate; they were doing it because of high inflation and the perceived devaluation of the dollar right after it was decoupled from gold. The '80s and '90s are classic examples of bond and stock speculation. If you want to see a case of pure pumping, look there.🙂

There is absolutely nothing in this world that perfectly preserves value. There are only assets that occasionally lose value and occasionally gain it. Depending on how clever you are at rotating between them, you either make money or you blow it. 😉

Of course it doesn't. That's why gold from the Roman Empire or the Middle Ages isn't worth the same thing today...☕

Given that silver supply can't keep up with demand, I fully expect it to do more than just hold its value—it’s going to skyrocket. By then, everyone will be working for Mirando Mrsić and pulling in about $220 a month...😍

It’s simple logic—those of you who think there’s enough silver out there actually have too much, while the rest of us know there’s far too little........😂😂😂

dustyheron5 said:Given that silver supply can't keep up with demand, I fully expect it to do more than just hold its value—it’s going to skyrocket. By then, everyone will be working for Mirando Mrsić and pulling in about $220 a month...😍

It’s simple logic—those of you who think there’s enough silver out there actually have too much, while the rest of us know there’s far too little........😂😂😂

Yeah, the whole silver story is pretty fascinating. They say a modern car uses roughly an ounce of silver, and high-end models can take two or three. Then you've got all the electronics, medical gear, and whatnot. If the math holds up, and we keep burning through it at this rate, we could run out of mineable silver in maybe 20 years once everything reachable is dug up. Of course, recycling is always an option.

Following that logic, the value of silver could easily multiply. The real threat would be if it becomes too expensive for industrial use—basically, if someone invents a synthetic substitute that’s cheap enough to actually work.

There's also a massive amount of chatter about how silver prices are being manipulated right now to keep them artificially low. It's highly likely that a huge chunk of those ETFs claiming to offer "silver exposure" are basically just gambling on price movements without actually holding any physical metal.

Some of the hardcore physical collectors are predicting prices will go straight to the moon, which is probably over-the-top optimistic. Still, it wouldn't hurt to pick up some coins and tuck them away—right now, the price is still pretty low, especially when you look at it compared to gold.

Paul Peterson4 said:Yeah, the whole silver story is pretty fascinating. They say a modern car uses roughly an ounce of silver, and high-end models can take two or three. Then you've got all the electronics, medical gear, and whatnot. If the math holds up, and we keep burning through it at this rate, we could run out of mineable silver in maybe 20 years once everything reachable is dug up. Of course, recycling is always an option.

Following that logic, the value of silver could easily multiply. The real threat would be if it becomes too expensive for industrial use—basically, if someone invents a synthetic substitute that’s cheap enough to actually work.

There's also a massive amount of chatter about how silver prices are being manipulated right now to keep them artificially low. It's highly likely that a huge chunk of those ETFs claiming to offer "silver exposure" are basically just gambling on price movements without actually holding any physical metal.

Some of the hardcore physical collectors are predicting prices will go straight to the moon, which is probably over-the-top optimistic. Still, it wouldn't hurt to pick up some coins and tuck them away—right now, the price is still pretty low, especially when you look at it compared to gold.

A synthetic material? You might as well join the army of alchemists who have spent all of history trying to conjure gold out of thin air.

Paul Peterson4 said:Yeah, the whole silver story is pretty fascinating. They say a modern car uses roughly an ounce of silver, and high-end models can take two or three. Then you've got all the electronics, medical gear, and whatnot. If the math holds up, and we keep burning through it at this rate, we could run out of mineable silver in maybe 20 years once everything reachable is dug up. Of course, recycling is always an option.

Following that logic, the value of silver could easily multiply. The real threat would be if it becomes too expensive for industrial use—basically, if someone invents a synthetic substitute that’s cheap enough to actually work.

There's also a massive amount of chatter about how silver prices are being manipulated right now to keep them artificially low. It's highly likely that a huge chunk of those ETFs claiming to offer "silver exposure" are basically just gambling on price movements without actually holding any physical metal.

Some of the hardcore physical collectors are predicting prices will go straight to the moon, which is probably over-the-top optimistic. Still, it wouldn't hurt to pick up some coins and tuck them away—right now, the price is still pretty low, especially when you look at it compared to gold.

It isn't allegedly or probably—it simply is. ☕

To requires being right at the "source" or actually being the one making it up 😁, and I seriously doubt anyone like that even posts on this forum.

That’s why using words like "probably" or "allegedly" is the only way to go.

Exactly. We’re talking about those untouchable elites—those shadowy figures who operate behind the curtain without any accountability whatsoever. It’s essentially a collection of sociopaths, most of whom are practically on their deathbeds, yet they still indulge in these delusions of grandeur—playing at being secret societies, pulling strings of control, and orchestrating the distribution of wealth and influence. They hand over actual authority to these "sheep" who genuinely believe they’ve made it to the big leagues—people who think this whole setup is some grand, impenetrable mystery that's far too sophisticated for the average American to grasp. Honestly? It’s actually quite transparent if you take a second to look closely at how the gears are turning. While the masses are busy following the script they've been handed—convinced they're actually in charge—the true architects just sit back and watch. And as we can clearly see, there is certainly no shortage of people willing to play the part.

ironstag8 said:A synthetic material? You might as well join the army of alchemists who have spent all of history trying to conjure gold out of thin air.

It isn't allegedly or probably—it simply is. ☕

The idea of transmuting lead into gold isn't just some theoretical pipe dream; it’s actually been proven to work in practice.

Gerald Ramos56 said:The idea of transmuting lead into gold isn't just some theoretical pipe dream; it’s actually been proven to work in practice.

...but it's also practically useless for anything meaningful. ☕
Nice try though, skydiver.

ironstag8 said:...but it's also practically useless for anything meaningful. ☕
Nice try though, skydiver.

The bottom line is, you're just plain wrong.
The real question is how many other misconceptions you're still clinging to.

It’s pretty much been proven that we can get to the Moon, so it’s not like people are heading up there every single day...☕

ironstag8 said:Francisco, you completely bypassed that second image I posted—the one that actually provides the direct answer to what you’re arguing here right now.
In a financial setup where money is treated just like any other commodity, it’s only logical that the amount of paper you receive in exchange for gold or silver fluctuates. The real issue is that the entire system is terminally ill—and part of that sickness stems from this flawed idea that precious metals aren't true money (especially when you factor in deficits, endless money printing, fractional reserve banking, and the cozy, unhealthy relationship between politicians and big banks...)
We simply hold a fundamentally different perspective on all of this, and honestly, only time will tell who's actually right.

My bad... didn't realize you already asked about that one! About that photo? Honestly, I think the smart move was the guy who bought silver in '64, dumped it for $50/oz in 1980, 😉 then waited three years to buy that same silver back at $5/oz and held it until today... 😁

Same goes for whoever bought silver at $50/oz back in the 80s (worth $141/oz today, maybe even $10,000 based on some crazy shadow price 😁)... They probably learned their lesson and won't touch base metals ever again. 😁



Just gotta be realistic. Everything is a commodity, even cash. You just need to know when to swap one asset for another. Some people nail it, some don't. Getting tunnel vision, ignoring everyone else, and looking for excuses from higher powers? Doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I enjoy reading your stuff on these boards and I'd love to see you make bank trading metals... but if you just stay stubborn and keep buying without thinking, you could wreck your savings just like those folks back in the early 80s.

Gerald Ramos56 said:The bottom line is, you're just plain wrong.
The real question is how many other misconceptions you're still clinging to.

Alright, fine—if you say so. It seems like splitting hairs is your favorite pastime.
But honestly, why are my personal beliefs even on the table? What on earth do they have to do with gold or silver?

Patrick Moore3 said:My bad... didn't realize you already asked about that one! About that photo? Honestly, I think the smart move was the guy who bought silver in '64, dumped it for $50/oz in 1980, 😉 then waited three years to buy that same silver back at $5/oz and held it until today... 😁

Same goes for whoever bought silver at $50/oz back in the 80s (worth $141/oz today, maybe even $10,000 based on some crazy shadow price 😁)... They probably learned their lesson and won't touch base metals ever again. 😁



Just gotta be realistic. Everything is a commodity, even cash. You just need to know when to swap one asset for another. Some people nail it, some don't. Getting tunnel vision, ignoring everyone else, and looking for excuses from higher powers? Doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I enjoy reading your stuff on these boards and I'd love to see you make bank trading metals... but if you just stay stubborn and keep buying without thinking, you could wreck your savings just like those folks back in the early 80s.

You've hit the nail on the head. If you haven't noticed by now, you're winning with silver and gold while losing with paper assets. Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead. Buy, sell, play with fire... do whatever you like. It’s not my priority, nor do I have any grand ambition to become a billionaire. I make enough to live a perfectly decent life and continue building my precious metal stash. If you can't see that we are living through incredibly volatile times for managing money, then please, let the unfolding reality convince you rather than me.

And hey, thanks for worrying about my wallet, but I honestly believe it's the people who refuse to see the absolute mess we're currently in who are going to get burned.

ironstag8 said:Alright, fine—if you say so. It seems like splitting hairs is your favorite pastime.
But honestly, why are my personal beliefs even on the table? What on earth do they have to do with gold or silver?

It’s not that I’m particularly obsessed with what you personally believe. It’s more about the patterns I see—the endless rationalization, the blind faith, and that specific kind of condescension people show toward anyone who doesn't think exactly like them (usually once they realize mocking or insulting someone isn't actually getting them anywhere).

Gerald Ramos56 said:It’s not that I’m particularly obsessed with what you personally believe. It’s more about the patterns I see—the endless rationalization, the blind faith, and that specific kind of condescension people show toward anyone who doesn't think exactly like them (usually once they realize mocking or insulting someone isn't actually getting them anywhere).

I believe there's a philosophy PDF tucked away somewhere on this forum—you might want to ask some of the more seasoned members how to track it down.

Gerald Ramos56 said:It’s not that I’m particularly obsessed with what you personally believe. It’s more about the patterns I see—the endless rationalization, the blind faith, and that specific kind of condescension people show toward anyone who doesn't think exactly like them (usually once they realize mocking or insulting someone isn't actually getting them anywhere).

Honestly, at this point, it seems more likely that blind faith is actually an unwavering trust in paper currency, centralized systems, and political leaders—rather than my actual stance on gold and silver.

Gerald Ramos56 said:It’s not that I’m particularly obsessed with what you personally believe. It’s more about the patterns I see—the endless rationalization, the blind faith, and that specific kind of condescension people show toward anyone who doesn't think exactly like them (usually once they realize mocking or insulting someone isn't actually getting them anywhere).

Hmm, I actually enjoy engaging with people who disagree with me. If I had truly insulted someone, I suspect I would have been flagged by a moderator already. As for the term "sheep"—if that's what you're implying—it wasn't meant as a slur; it was intended to describe a certain prevailing mindset. Sheep crave the herd and follow leaders blindly, which usually results in them being sheared or slaughtered—a pattern that, if you look closely at history (not just in monetary terms), repeats itself across the masses time and again.

ironstag8 said:You've hit the nail on the head. If you haven't noticed by now, you're winning with silver and gold while losing with paper assets. Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead. Buy, sell, play with fire... do whatever you like. It’s not my priority, nor do I have any grand ambition to become a billionaire. I make enough to live a perfectly decent life and continue building my precious metal stash. If you can't see that we are living through incredibly volatile times for managing money, then please, let the unfolding reality convince you rather than me.

And hey, thanks for worrying about my wallet, but I honestly believe it's the people who refuse to see the absolute mess we're currently in who are going to get burned.

Didn't miss anything... You just picked a moment when buying silver in USD was a steal, so obviously that looks profitable.
I'm talking about a different window—a time when silver was overpriced. Anyone who bought then? They've been underwater for 30+ years compared to someone who grabbed paper back then.
It’s all about timing... even paper can be a solid play depending on when you jump in. 😉

ironstag8 said:You've hit the nail on the head. If you haven't noticed by now, you're winning with silver and gold while losing with paper assets. Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead. Buy, sell, play with fire... do whatever you like. It’s not my priority, nor do I have any grand ambition to become a billionaire. I make enough to live a perfectly decent life and continue building my precious metal stash. If you can't see that we are living through incredibly volatile times for managing money, then please, let the unfolding reality convince you rather than me.

And hey, thanks for worrying about my wallet, but I honestly believe it's the people who refuse to see the absolute mess we're currently in who are going to get burned.

Fair enough... It's rough, yeah, but this isn't the first crisis and it won't be the last...
Then again, maybe now is actually the perfect time to play the game. 😍

ironstag8 said:You've hit the nail on the head. If you haven't noticed by now, you're winning with silver and gold while losing with paper assets. Now, if you want to speculate, go ahead. Buy, sell, play with fire... do whatever you like. It’s not my priority, nor do I have any grand ambition to become a billionaire. I make enough to live a perfectly decent life and continue building my precious metal stash. If you can't see that we are living through incredibly volatile times for managing money, then please, let the unfolding reality convince you rather than me.

And hey, thanks for worrying about my wallet, but I honestly believe it's the people who refuse to see the absolute mess we're currently in who are going to get burned.

A lot of people are gonna get hit—those who see it coming and those who don't... just some more than others...

Good luck with your investments, ironstag8. All the best... 👋

I honestly don't get why these "non-believers" think we "believers" actually believe this bull market is going to last forever 😕

Patrick Moore3 said:Didn't miss anything... You just picked a moment when buying silver in USD was a steal, so obviously that looks profitable.
I'm talking about a different window—a time when silver was overpriced. Anyone who bought then? They've been underwater for 30+ years compared to someone who grabbed paper back then.
It’s all about timing... even paper can be a solid play depending on when you jump in. 😉

Fair enough... It's rough, yeah, but this isn't the first crisis and it won't be the last...
Then again, maybe now is actually the perfect time to play the game. 😍

A lot of people are gonna get hit—those who see it coming and those who don't... just some more than others...

Good luck with your investments, ironstag8. All the best... 👋

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...for-funds.html

especially when you're messing around with the Euro.

Patrick Moore3 said:Didn't miss anything... You just picked a moment when buying silver in USD was a steal, so obviously that looks profitable.
I'm talking about a different window—a time when silver was overpriced. Anyone who bought then? They've been underwater for 30+ years compared to someone who grabbed paper back then.
It’s all about timing... even paper can be a solid play depending on when you jump in. 😉

Fair enough... It's rough, yeah, but this isn't the first crisis and it won't be the last...
Then again, maybe now is actually the perfect time to play the game. 😍

A lot of people are gonna get hit—those who see it coming and those who don't... just some more than others...

Good luck with your investments, ironstag8. All the best... 👋

I hear what you're saying, especially if you're looking at this strictly through the lens of paper assets. But I’m viewing it through a different prism altogether. You have to admit, though—even from your perspective—holding paper almost guarantees a loss in any scenario, whereas holding physical precious metals (PM) just results in fluctuations of profit or loss measured against paper. Physical PM held 500, 100, 40, or even 10 years ago still holds its value today, while paper from those same eras has dwindled down to essentially nothing or something negligible.

Patrick Moore3 said:Didn't miss anything... You just picked a moment when buying silver in USD was a steal, so obviously that looks profitable.
I'm talking about a different window—a time when silver was overpriced. Anyone who bought then? They've been underwater for 30+ years compared to someone who grabbed paper back then.
It’s all about timing... even paper can be a solid play depending on when you jump in. 😉

Fair enough... It's rough, yeah, but this isn't the first crisis and it won't be the last...
Then again, maybe now is actually the perfect time to play the game. 😍

A lot of people are gonna get hit—those who see it coming and those who don't... just some more than others...

Good luck with your investments, ironstag8. All the best... 👋

You aren't wrong, but there is a massive distinction between one crisis and the next. What happened with PM in the early '80s is incomparable to the crisis we are facing today. I’ll lean on historical analogies again here, because clearly, too many people forget history unless they are forced to repeat it.
The Roman Empire faced crises until the "big one" arrived and wiped them out. Byzantium had its share of turmoil before the final collapse. Even the Spanish Empire saw instability before its eventual downfall... there are countless smaller and larger examples, but the common thread of ruin can always be found in the collapse of the financial system (much like what we see today with money printing and the abandonment of PM), which inevitably leads to total systemic failure.
The exact same thing is happening now with the dollar-based financial system. Back then, the solution to the BlackRock era crisis was essentially "BlackRock II," which really just bought more time. That "solution" was basically just taking the brakes off—removing the PM requirement—and by the early '80s, that paper car without brakes just sped away, seemingly leaving PM in its dust. But we all know where a car without brakes ends up: either hitting a tree or flying off a cliff. Even if it runs out of gas before the crash, it’ll eventually stall out and be overtaken by a well-maintained vehicle (physical PM).

So, to wrap this up: yes, crises happen, but every once in a while, a massive crisis arrives that dwarfs the minor ones. In those moments, from a financial standpoint, physical PM is the only thing worth holding.

Patrick Moore3 said:Didn't miss anything... You just picked a moment when buying silver in USD was a steal, so obviously that looks profitable.
I'm talking about a different window—a time when silver was overpriced. Anyone who bought then? They've been underwater for 30+ years compared to someone who grabbed paper back then.
It’s all about timing... even paper can be a solid play depending on when you jump in. 😉

Fair enough... It's rough, yeah, but this isn't the first crisis and it won't be the last...
Then again, maybe now is actually the perfect time to play the game. 😍

A lot of people are gonna get hit—those who see it coming and those who don't... just some more than others...

Good luck with your investments, ironstag8. All the best... 👋

Getting screwed is a certainty. Honestly, this isn't the time to be gambling around with your capital; it feels a bit like standing on the edge of a geyser and peering into the vent. You can take a peek a dozen times, but you never know exactly when that pressurized water is going to blast you right out of the hole.
I’ve said it before: speculation just isn't my game. My only real goal is preserving what I’ve already built. Whether an ounce of gold or silver hits $100,000 is frankly irrelevant to me. Even in this fiat-driven world, I’m making enough to live comfortably, regardless of whether the entire financial system collapses fifty years from now. The question is *when*, not *if*.

Good luck to you as well during these chaotic times. 😉 I just haven't quite figured out the best way to mock, look down upon, or insult you yet 🤔
I'll let you know once I've come up with something.