Gold: Past, Present, and Future

crimsonranger38 said:Inflation is doing its thing, as per usual. But don't go holding your breath waiting for double-digit numbers. It’s just not going to happen. If the winds shift and things actually start looking different, I'll be the first one to give you a heads-up. 😍

Warren Buffett

The miners? They’re just sitting there, coiled like a spring, waiting for the signal to strike. Right now, China is the undisputed heavyweight champion of the commodities markets. When you bundle them together with all those other fast-growing economies, you get this massive pressure cooker effect: prices skyrocket whenever we see even a hint of growth, only to face these tiny, pathetic corrections the moment anyone gets nervous. But here’s the real kicker in this whole saga: with the Eurozone sliding into its current deep crisis, Chinese exports are starting to stall out. To compensate for that export slump, the Communist Party is already signaling a massive new investment cycle to jumpstart things. In plain English? We’re looking at even more capital misallocation.

The policy of malinvestment only works for so long. Eventually, debt hits a critical mass—a point of no return where you simply can't borrow any more—and that's when all those bad investments start collapsing like a house of cards. When that happens, expect a total meltdown in the commodities markets. The current model they're running in China isn't sustainable even in the medium term. They’re just using massive income redistribution to kick the can down the road and delay necessary economic restructuring. It's a losing game. Just like in the Eurozone, the cost of maintaining this charade rises with every single passing day.

Warren Buffett

Maybe, but all this quasi-money they’re printing doesn't actually trickle down into people's wallets. Because of that, we aren't going to see today's moderate core inflation turn into some kind of runaway gallop. What we're really seeing is just a series of inflationary and deflationary swings across the commodities markets. If you look at the total money supply in the economy from the start of the Great Depression up until now, the growth rate hasn't changed much compared to the decade and a half before the crash hit. It's the same old story. This is what I keep coming back to: the inflation the United States and Europe dealt with back in the '70s isn't comparable to what we face today. We simply don't have an inflationary income policy, and without that, you can't trigger a true inflationary spiral.

How can fiat currency be in a bubble? I’m a little confused there. In my view, that's impossible because its real value is being eroded by inflation every single day. Then there's the issue of people treating gold as something it isn't; they're basically predicting future inflationary moves based on quasi-money. What else do you call people who can't wrap their heads around what's happened over the last three and a half years—events that have already proven most economic theories and schools of thought to be completely hollow? Even today, American universities are teaching kids about a monetary system that effectively ceased to exist nearly two decades ago.

Since gold and silver have essentially become paper instruments, it seems a bit silly to cry manipulation when prices drop, yet claim everything is legitimate when they rise. Both could just as easily be results of the same tinkering. And what actually *is* gold? One thing is certain: it's an unproductive asset, and its role as an inflation hedge hasn't held up for a long time, given how far the price has decoupled from actual inflation.

On what fundamentals is gold worth $8,000 or $16,000? If you're willing to share, how exactly are you measuring its "real" value? From where I'm sitting, I see production stagnation dating back to the end of the last century, which is a massive factor for gold prices, much like it is for crude oil. It's funny, though: when the price drops, everyone screams manipulation, but when it climbs, suddenly it's just the "untainted market" doing its job. Then, when I call out the cult-like behavior, people get offended. 😍

Warren Buffett

They say hope is the last thing to die. Or so the old folks claim. Some are saying... well, you know how people talk. 😍

Warren Buffett

Mary Asks: If you look at the history books, silver is criminally undervalued. It’s an afterthought, really—lagging behind gold in almost every metric, and even more so when you compare it to everything else out there. Just take a look back at the era of Ancient Rome...

So, if I’ve actually grasped this correctly—the market hasn't been able to pin down a realistic price for silver and gold since the days of the Roman Empire. 😍

Well, there you have it. It’ll take another five to ten years before we actually see the verdict. 😍

Taking the total money supply—I’m not even sure where you’re pulling those numbers from, frankly—and trying to convert it into some supposed "real" gold price just proves you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the math. Suddenly, nobody cares about hedging against inflation anymore; instead, you're all busy comparing the price of a completely non-productive commodity to the cost of the actual goods and services that make modern life possible. Since when did an increase in the money supply stop being a direct hit to the purchasing power of the dollar?

An investor recently offered my grandmother $100,000 for her house. To her, that was an absolute insult. She reckons that place is worth millions because she’s spent thirty years living inside those walls—every bittersweet memory and dusty corner included. Of course, her valuation has zero basis in market reality; it’s pure, unadulterated emotion. It’s fascinating, really. Some people have reached a point where they practically tuck their gold bars into bed at night. They spend their days performing this daily ritual of self-delusion, trying to convince themselves that their stash will eventually be worth ten times its current value just because they believe the world is going to pivot back to the gold standard. 😍

How can you even have a serious debate with someone who retreats all the way back to the Roman Empire just to argue that the gold they’re hiding under their mattress isn't actually worth $10,000—or maybe $100,000—when, in reality, those USD bills don't mean a thing to them anyway? And then, the second I use the word "sect," people take offense. Please. It is nothing else but a sect. If you're going to cling to this theory that gold is the ultimate hedge against inflation, do yourself a favor: pick 1800 as your starting point, adjust for today, and then look at the math. You'll see pretty quickly that gold is massively overpriced at current levels. Comparing it to stock market indices is just intellectually lazy; a hunk of metal simply hasn't performed anywhere near what the components of the Dow Jones Industrial Average have achieved. I’ve probably bruised some egos here. I know there are plenty of people holding onto their gold, dreaming of a world that reverted to how things were a century ago. Well, newsflash. 😍

Well, if you say so. 🙂

🙂

I assume you meant "can't," but let's be real: they can, and they do. It happens all the time. But markets aren't built on delusions forever; eventually, gravity kicks in and forces a correction. Everything gets overvalued sometimes—gold and silver included. We've seen it before, where the market had to snap back by 20% or 25% just to find its footing again.

That’s the truth. I also suspect they'll try to navigate this using the strategy Ray Dalio outlines—but then again, you know what Bill Gross used to say... there are really only three ways out of this: growth, inflation, or simply wiping out the creditors. Given how slim the chances for actual growth look right now, we're essentially left with those other two options. 😍

Walter Barrett8 said:There are countless ways to define money. Every single school of economic thought seems to have its own specific take on what it actually is.
Look, there’s a fundamental consensus among all the major schools of thought on what money actually needs to be: it has to be easily divisible, non-perishable, universally accepted, and—most importantly—it has to serve as a store of value. It’s that last requirement that really exposes the flaw in the system. Because they fail to act as a true store of value, fiat currencies simply aren't real money. 😉

It’s clear that 99.9% of people haven't even begun to consider gold as a serious investment vehicle. Because of that, you can't exactly blame a mass sell-off by the public for any price drops we see. If the numbers are sliding, it isn't because people are jumping ship; it’s more likely the work of some Terminator algorithms or those relentless Bot-ov programs running the show behind the scenes. 😁

Shadow Asks:
It’s entirely possible that tomorrow, the majority of Americans just stop recognizing the USD as the primary medium of exchange. Imagine a scenario where people simply lose faith in the local currency as a functional tool for trade, and instead, they start settling all goods and services in gold, Bitcoin, or some other stable alternative. It wouldn't take much—just a collective shift in perception to turn the current system upside down.

It’s just not happening. Since the USD is the official legal tender, any transaction involving goods or services that isn't happening under the table or in some gray market shadow economy has to be priced in dollars. That creates an automatic, built-in demand which keeps the currency afloat. It’s actually illegal to offer or accept Euros at a local shop here, because all the receipts have to be issued in USD, and the tax man expects his cut in dollars too.

The supply is climbing...

Real estate is a bit of a trap if you look at it closely. You can get hit with property taxes whenever the government feels like squeezing you, the structure itself can crumble, or some legal technicality could see it confiscated entirely. Then there’s the constant drain of utilities and maintenance, not to mention depreciation eating away at your equity. If you aren't actually using the space, all that "growth" in market value is just paper profit—it gets swallowed whole by the overhead. At the end of the day, if there's no utility, you're just paying to own a liability.
Rental income is fine, I guess, but let's be honest—it just accelerates the depreciation.

The response to this is provided below.

Shadow As stated by:
As far as I'm concerned, this is just more of that run-of-the-mill demagoguery we’re forced to swallow from the mainstream media every single day. They love to spin the narrative: they claim the standard of living for the average American has never been higher, and meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people are being lifted out of poverty. Somehow, they expect us to believe that this isn't a net benefit for the individual, but rather some kind of collective loss for everyone else. It's just more noise.

The West has been sliding into decline for quite some time now—actually, lately, it’s just gone downhill fast. We’re seeing record numbers of people struggling with hunger and poverty, hitting percentages we haven't seen in generations. If there’s one silver lining to this whole mess, it’s that the system is still churning out technological breakthroughs at an insane pace. I suppose you could call it the accidental, positive collateral damage of pure, unadulterated greed.

It’s happening. Those once-steady linear slopes are starting to curve upward into pure exponential madness. We're looking at a perfect storm: skyrocketing national debt, exploding private debt, massive budget deficits, trade imbalances, and that relentless, grinding inflationary pressure. It's all converging at once. Back in the day, gold acted as a stabilizer for the balance of payments, keeping everything in a state of maximum equilibrium. That stability was the bedrock for domestic manufacturing, maintaining a predictable exchange rate, and ensuring debt sustainability actually meant something. Now? The math just isn't adding up anymore.

But gold? You can't really tax it or have it confiscated easily... and even if they tried, it wouldn't be the first time.
Besides, do you honestly think people would push back? Fine, let's say we hold a national referendum: choose between a luxury housing tax or a tax on gold bullion. Man, the result would look just like an election in Iran... 99.99% in favor of taxing the gold.

Regarding that last bolded part, are you referring to real estate or gold?😁

Silver Argentum As specified by Walter Barrett8:
Another one who clearly hasn't spent a single second studying monetary history. Honestly, maybe take a moment to learn the difference between price and value before weighing in, okay? It’s basic stuff. Gold has always been measured by mass, whereas paper currencies are nothing more than a derivative of that gold. Sit down and take notes, kid.

So, I see we’re playing semantic games now. Fine. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I actually learned my lesson. Are you going to give me a straight answer to the question then?

You got it wrong.

Look, don't be stingy with the details then. Just give me a proper explanation of what Marin was actually trying to get at, since I clearly missed the mark.

It all goes back to that exact moment when governments decided they could just print whatever amount they felt like. Honestly, explaining this feels like a waste of breath. If solving economic crises was as simple as running the money presses, then the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe would be global superpowers by now.

Look, it doesn't matter what the day-to-day reality looks like. Forget what people actually do in practice. What matters—the only thing that truly carries weight—is what the theory dictates.

Secondly, you’re leaning heavily on a classic straw man argument here. Where exactly did I suggest that we solve the issue—which, by the way, still needs a clear definition—by simply inflating the total money supply?

And once again, you’re conflating price with value. It’s a classic mistake.

Once again, a pretty irrelevant point to throw into an argument.

Why on earth would I bother buying gold at 1800? Even if I did, the actual purchasing power remains basically identical to what it was back then. Seriously, go ahead—challenge me to find just ONE single piece of paper currency from the 1800s that holds the same value today as a dollar does right now. I'll wait.

Why? Because that’s how you spot trends. You need to see if there’s actually any meaningful difference between gold back then versus gold today. That's the whole point. As for the second part of your comment—you missed the mark entirely. I never claimed what you just wrote, and frankly, it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand.

What about Treasury bonds, stocks, and the rest of the market junk? Can you handle those too?

You're absolutely right, but now I want you to name names. Who exactly, and when, claimed that bonds or stocks were "money"? I actually appreciate you grouping gold in with bonds and stocks—it’s technically where it belongs.

It’s clear you have zero grasp of monetary history, which explains why you’re so clueless about how markets actually function. Who exactly are these people frantically offloading gold and silver? Oh, wait—there aren't any. It’s just digital promises being traded by computers, not actual physical bullion.

If we strip away the ad hominem attacks for a second, can we actually apply that same logic to every single product on the market? I mean, think about it. Who exactly—and at what point in the timeline—is actually selling raw, unrefined crude oil or natural gas? It’s a bit of a stretch.

"Quote:"

It’s pretty clear you don't even grasp the basic definition of money. Think about history for a second. When were any other metals—aside from gold, silver, or copper—actually considered currency? Never. And you know why? Because they lack the fundamental characteristics required to function as money. You might want to go back to school and actually study the concept before weighing in.

You’ve got a point there. I’ll admit, I don't dive into the research quite as aggressively as you do. But look, we need to pick a lane here. Either we're discussing the actual chemical properties of gold, or we're talking about something else entirely. We can't just pivot between definitions whenever it feels convenient to suit the argument. It’s messy. So, do me a favor: go back, read the broader context of what I actually wrote, and then come back with those questions.

Interesting... A moment ago you were claiming silver and gold have never actually functioned as money, but now you’ve pivoted to saying people decide what holds value. Talk about a complete 180. We have a new champion in the art of jumping into one's own mouth! People chose silver and gold as currency three thousand years ago; it wasn't some mandate handed down by a central bank or the federal government.

Don't try to twist my words. I never once claimed that gold and silver weren't money. They were money once upon a time, a long time ago, and they probably won't be ever again. Second; your first point doesn't actually contradict my second. Third; what on earth does the fact that people three thousand years ago chose gold and silver as currency have to do with the argument I actually made?

Let’s just briefly set aside three thousand years of human history and ignore the current global trend where central banks everywhere—think the Federal Reserve, the Bank of Japan, or even the folks over at the People's Bank of China—are aggressively hoarding gold. Even in the middle of a massive fiscal crisis, you see major players like Germany demanding gold as collateral from countries like Italy or Greece. It’s happening all around us.

So, how exactly did you think you debunked that fact about gold and its history? Let’s get real for a second. That gold you’re obsessing over—the stuff you claim has three hundred years of legacy—isn't actually money anymore. Seriously. Go down to a local farmer's market, try to buy a sack of potatoes using a handful of gold coins, and see how the vendor reacts. They’ll take your US dollars or Euros way faster than they’ll take a shiny nugget. As for central banks hoarding gold, honestly, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of their massive asset accumulation. It’s practically negligible. And my final piece of advice? Stop believing everything you read online. Don't go looking for collateral where none exists; if they actually required it, the entire monetary union would collapse instantly.

A jeweler doesn't actually dictate the price of an ounce of gold. He might claim it’s worth $2,500 just to make a point, but he isn't the one calling the shots. The market decides the value; the guy behind the counter is just reading the scoreboard.

Jewelers don't have the slightest clue how gold actually functions as money.

What’s the actual takeaway here? That less than a fraction of a percent of the global population views gold as real money while everyone else treats it like a novelty? You also went straight for the soccer analogy again, which is pretty rich considering you didn't even touch the core argument.

If Wall Street decides an ounce of gold is worth $100,000, then that’s exactly what it’s going to be. It’s basic economics, really. Prices—gold or otherwise—are driven by the tug-of-war between supply and demand. And let's face it, we all see the pattern here: global gold supply is basically hitting a plateau, while demand keeps climbing, fueled largely by speculators looking for a quick buck. That imbalance is what pushes the price north.

Do you even realize how much nonsense you're spewing? It would probably take me several hours to walk you through the fact that price—not just for gold, but for anything—isn't solely dictated by supply and demand. Once you finally grasp that gold is the mortal enemy of fiat currency, you'll understand why the price looks the way it does.

Gold is a powerhouse commodity. Period. And sure, I get it—for a true fanatic, the price of their precious metal has nothing to do with market supply or demand. You haven't exactly broken new ground here; you're just stating the obvious.

Only an idiot would buy real estate at those prices. Oh, wait, my mistake... I forgot that real estate prices can only ever go up and they're perfectly productive assets—they just sit there, requiring zero investment and absolutely no maintenance...

Once again, you dodged the actual point because you know deep down that most people would make that choice without a second thought. As for the price per square foot, you have to accept that in a capitalist system, the market sets the price. If someone is willing to shell out $500,000 for a tiny condo, then that’s the market price. The market doesn't care if that person is making a questionable decision; the market isn't comprised entirely of Wall Street types.

The second part of your real estate rant is just more deflection—classic straw man argumentation.

A standard built on cheap energy (which isn't infinite, but that's another conversation) and the impoverishment of millions.

Human ingenuity made that energy cheap, and human ingenuity might just make it infinite one day. Secondly, subtract natural population growth from the equation and you'd see we don't actually have starving people in today's world. Furthermore, you can't enrich yourself by stripping wealth from someone who was already broke.

And if you think carrying a credit card is a way out of poverty, you're mistaken.

Having a credit card and a decent limit is simply a metric of a certain standard of living; it isn't inherently bad. Just as consumption without production makes no sense, production without consumption is equally futile.

I wrote this:

One more vital fact: I don't recall the United States or the UK ever having 100% gold backing for their total money supply. If memory serves—and it does—the last time they had any semblance of a real gold standard was back in the mid-19th century, when coverage sat at roughly 30%.

And this was your response:

Patrick Moore3 said:🤣

@crimsonranger38,
man, you just don't quit... 😁

I didn't, really. I just gave him a fair shot to prove he wasn't some troll—someone who isn't worth the energy in the first place. The response was exactly what you'd expect given the quality of his original post. 😍

Walter Barrett8 said:So, after weighing all the variables, the bottom line is this: precious metals aren't some magic bullet. They might never hit that $100,000 per ounce milestone we see in the wildest fever dreams, but they remain some of the sharpest plays available in the current market... 🙂

I’ll go ahead and agree with what was written. Honestly, it’s a relief to finally see an end to all that fanaticism. 😍

If you look back at the last decade, gold has been one of the absolute heavy hitters in terms of performance. On average, it’s been pulling in about a 20% return every single year. Honestly, hats off to anyone smart enough to load up on it back then. You can only imagine how much a grandparent is smiling today if they were buying gold for their grandkids when it was sitting at $1,900 an ounce. Now, will gold keep delivering those 20% annual returns for the next ten years? Maybe. But personally, I think the odds of that happening are slim to none. We’ve just witnessed a set of market conditions we haven't seen in the last decade. We're approaching a point where gold prices might just sit flat for a while. I was checking the Asian markets this morning—they're in the red. Crude oil and gold are down too, though Treasury yields are climbing. You have to adapt to these shifts and accept them for what they are. You can't just ignore reality and pretend we're living in some... alternate universe.

Quote : The Dollar posted its biggest monthly gain since 2011 in May. It actually managed to outpace bonds, stocks, and commodities for the first time this year. Think of it like a sturdy old pickup truck pulling ahead of a fleet of sports cars during a massive storm. As the sovereign debt situation across the United States spiraled, everyone started looking for a safe harbor, and they all ended up running straight toward the greenback.

Based on what you've said here, I can't take you seriously for a few reasons:

Who exactly has ever sold physical crude oil or gas?

If you subtract natural population growth, we basically don't have hunger in the modern world.

As for hunger, it's declining; if it weren't for the massive population boom in developing nations, it practically wouldn't exist.

Having a credit card and a decent limit is just a sign of a high standard of living—there’s nothing wrong with that in itself.

Enough for the smart ones.

crimsonranger38 said:I didn't, really. I just gave him a fair shot to prove he wasn't some troll—someone who isn't worth the energy in the first place. The response was exactly what you'd expect given the quality of his original post. 😍

I’ll go ahead and agree with what was written. Honestly, it’s a relief to finally see an end to all that fanaticism. 😍

If you look back at the last decade, gold has been one of the absolute heavy hitters in terms of performance. On average, it’s been pulling in about a 20% return every single year. Honestly, hats off to anyone smart enough to load up on it back then. You can only imagine how much a grandparent is smiling today if they were buying gold for their grandkids when it was sitting at $1,900 an ounce. Now, will gold keep delivering those 20% annual returns for the next ten years? Maybe. But personally, I think the odds of that happening are slim to none. We’ve just witnessed a set of market conditions we haven't seen in the last decade. We're approaching a point where gold prices might just sit flat for a while. I was checking the Asian markets this morning—they're in the red. Crude oil and gold are down too, though Treasury yields are climbing. You have to adapt to these shifts and accept them for what they are. You can't just ignore reality and pretend we're living in some... alternate universe.

Quote : The Dollar posted its biggest monthly gain since 2011 in May. It actually managed to outpace bonds, stocks, and commodities for the first time this year. Think of it like a sturdy old pickup truck pulling ahead of a fleet of sports cars during a massive storm. As the sovereign debt situation across the United States spiraled, everyone started looking for a safe harbor, and they all ended up running straight toward the greenback.

Respect to anyone who got into gold back in 2008...
Treasury bonds are arguably the largest bubble of them all—they might hold up for a few more years, sure—but by 2015? Things are going to look quite different...
A price correction for gold after jumping from $1,450 to $1,923 is perfectly normal...
Inflation can happen even without wage growth—something we are already witnessing...

Anthony Evans78 said:Based on what you've said here, I can't take you seriously for a few reasons:

Who exactly has ever sold physical crude oil or gas?

If you subtract natural population growth, we basically don't have hunger in the modern world.

As for hunger, it's declining; if it weren't for the massive population boom in developing nations, it practically wouldn't exist.

Having a credit card and a decent limit is just a sign of a high standard of living—there’s nothing wrong with that in itself.

Enough for the smart ones.

Silver certainly has a lot of energy for debating... though I doubt he'll ever find a place in our sector.
I’ll just point out that the gold standard wasn't abandoned because of the gold itself, but rather due to the systemic abuse of that standard and a desperate craving for printing money. It brings to mind Ancient Rome—how they steadily debased their silver coinage over the centuries, much like what we see happening to the Dollar today. We all know how that story ended for the Roman Empire.
Besides, since this discussion covers the past, present, and future, drawing these kinds of parallels seems perfectly logical to me.
If I recall correctly, he mentioned somewhere that it doesn't matter if the Dollar lost 98% of its purchasing power as long as wages were rising. Regarding that, once I find a moment to sit down and crunch some numbers, I’ll post them—it will become quite clear that the standard of living in the United States has been eroding due to inflation, not improving, over the last 50 years or so. While I’m using silver as my comparison, the same logic applies to gold.

Catching this at 5:00 PM...
http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report...95-max-keiser/

dustyheron5 said:Respect to anyone who got into gold back in 2008...
Treasury bonds are arguably the largest bubble of them all—they might hold up for a few more years, sure—but by 2015? Things are going to look quite different...
A price correction for gold after jumping from $1,450 to $1,923 is perfectly normal...
Inflation can happen even without wage growth—something we are already witnessing...

here they are sitting at 1.5% today (10 Year US bonds)

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/USGG10YR:IND

So our little cartel decided to take a swing at gold today 🙂. But then again, maybe those jobs numbers coming out of the States changed the math
.

I don't share the view that there's a cartel targeting gold or silver exclusively—but I also can't agree with my colleague that there isn't downward manipulation happening... I am convinced that Americans and their largest investment banks manipulate everything (both up and down) 🙂... from gold and silver to commodities, oil, currencies, stock markets, interest rates, and even statistical reports... everything...

As for gold, I see it climbing right after bad economic data rolled in from all over the world... moving from $1,548 to $1,585 USD 😉

And for crimsonranger38, I have a little something special:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/big-re...sentation-ever

dustyheron5 said:I don't share the view that there's a cartel targeting gold or silver exclusively—but I also can't agree with my colleague that there isn't downward manipulation happening... I am convinced that Americans and their largest investment banks manipulate everything (both up and down) 🙂... from gold and silver to commodities, oil, currencies, stock markets, interest rates, and even statistical reports... everything...

As for gold, I see it climbing right after bad economic data rolled in from all over the world... moving from $1,548 to $1,585 USD 😉

And for crimsonranger38, I have a little something special:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/big-re...sentation-ever

honestly, I'm just messing with you. It's all just numbers on a screen anyway, so...

By the way, gold is trading above $1,600—silver is at $28.41. 😍

Gold
1599.40
+45.29 +2.91%

US Dollar
83.061
-0.045 -0.06%

Melissa Sanchez17 said:honestly, I'm just messing with you. It's all just numbers on a screen anyway, so...

It's all fine... a little humor doesn't hurt.😍

But have you seen how the cartel is manipulating gold against the Fed?😂

Are we back to talking about cartels again?
...or is demand just spiking so hard that the market finally outpaced them? 😁

Patrick Moore3 said:Are we back to talking about cartels again?
...or is demand just spiking so hard that the market finally outpaced them? 😁

So you're telling me—quite nicely, I might add—that the cartel is driving gold prices up while pushing the dollar down...😂😂😂

Which part of that didn't click?

Look, those folks pulling the strings aren't some kind of omnipotent force—they can't stop the inevitable. They might be able to stall things for a bit, which is essentially what they're doing right now, but they can't prevent what's bound to happen eventually.

They’re playing games when I tell you... they knew exactly what that Democratic Party report looked like before they ever released it to the public...............

Take a look at this manipulation:

dustyheron5: It’s funny how people react when you actually point out the obvious. It’s like watching someone try to explain why they didn't see a red light when there's a giant stop sign right in their face. You think you're being helpful, providing a bit of clarity, and suddenly you're the villain in their little drama. Patrick Moore3 thinks he's got it all figured out, but honestly, it's more like someone trying to fix a jet engine with a toothpick. A lot of effort, very little actual progress. And then there's ironstag8, who seems to believe that if you just say something loud enough, it magically becomes true. It doesn't work that way. Reality isn't a popularity contest. crimsonranger38 keeps circling the same drain, too. It's a repetitive loop. Like a scratched record playing the same three notes over and over while everyone else is trying to listen to the symphony. We need more substance and a lot less noise.

Anthony Evans78 said:Based on what you've said here, I can't take you seriously for a few reasons:

Who exactly has ever sold physical crude oil or gas?

If you subtract natural population growth, we basically don't have hunger in the modern world.

As for hunger, it's declining; if it weren't for the massive population boom in developing nations, it practically wouldn't exist.

Having a credit card and a decent limit is just a sign of a high standard of living—there’s nothing wrong with that in itself.

Enough for the smart ones.

Your fundamental issue is that you’re narrow-minded. You have zero interest in actually expanding your horizons. That’s exactly what people who preach about gold being some kind of flawless panacea are aiming for. It worked on you because you were willing to swallow it whole, but it didn't work on me. I’ve always insisted on seeing the receipts—verifiable facts, not just vibes. Look, I’m more than happy to learn something new, but I refuse to be indoctrinated. What you’ve pulled together here certainly has some depth to it, I'll give you that.

dustyheron5 said:Respect to anyone who got into gold back in 2008...
Treasury bonds are arguably the largest bubble of them all—they might hold up for a few more years, sure—but by 2015? Things are going to look quite different...
A price correction for gold after jumping from $1,450 to $1,923 is perfectly normal...
Inflation can happen even without wage growth—something we are already witnessing...

Hats off to anyone making a buck on the stock market, I suppose. It just means someone else is footing the bill for those gains. As for government bonds, it’s pretty obvious we’re looking at a massive bubble. You look at the debt loads in the US, Japan, Germany, and the UK, and it’s staggering. But take Germany, for example—they’ve reached this surreal point where creditors are essentially paying them a premium just to hold onto their debt. It’s pure panic masquerading as stability. It isn't sustainable, obviously, but that’s the reality we have to navigate. A market correction? That's perfectly normal. What isn't normal is the logic coming from certain people we have the "pleasure" of reading on this forum.

To them, it’s all just one massive conspiracy theory. It’s the same mindset we saw from the crowd that maxed out their margin loans at the absolute peak in 2007, only to face the predictable fallout we all remember too well. Regarding inflation, sure, it exists—but I'm talking about a specific kind of surge. I am referring to inflation rates that actually exceed what the Federal Reserve targets. Right now, core inflation in many places sits comfortably below 2.5%. We saw prices go absolutely wild on the commodities markets a few months back, but lately, we've been staring down deflation. It’s simple math: we didn't see any significant wage indexing, which prevented an inflationary spiral from ever gaining traction.

ironstag8 said:Silver certainly has a lot of energy for debating... though I doubt he'll ever find a place in our sector.
I’ll just point out that the gold standard wasn't abandoned because of the gold itself, but rather due to the systemic abuse of that standard and a desperate craving for printing money. It brings to mind Ancient Rome—how they steadily debased their silver coinage over the centuries, much like what we see happening to the Dollar today. We all know how that story ended for the Roman Empire.
Besides, since this discussion covers the past, present, and future, drawing these kinds of parallels seems perfectly logical to me.
If I recall correctly, he mentioned somewhere that it doesn't matter if the Dollar lost 98% of its purchasing power as long as wages were rising. Regarding that, once I find a moment to sit down and crunch some numbers, I’ll post them—it will become quite clear that the standard of living in the United States has been eroding due to inflation, not improving, over the last 50 years or so. While I’m using silver as my comparison, the same logic applies to gold.

That’s just plain wrong. Look, I’m not saying the current system isn't rigged in favor of the political elites—it definitely is—but let's be real about why we even moved away from the gold standard in the first place. It was because ordinary Americans simply refused to deal with those rigid constraints anymore. Back in the late 20th century, people weren't willing to play by those old rules, and if they hadn't pushed back then, we wouldn't even be having this conversation today. The Eurozone is a perfect, glaring example of how this all plays out. If this whole mess continues on its current trajectory, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see far-right extremist parties seizing power across various fringe states in Europe. History tends to repeat itself when people feel left behind.

ironstag8 said:Silver certainly has a lot of energy for debating... though I doubt he'll ever find a place in our sector.
I’ll just point out that the gold standard wasn't abandoned because of the gold itself, but rather due to the systemic abuse of that standard and a desperate craving for printing money. It brings to mind Ancient Rome—how they steadily debased their silver coinage over the centuries, much like what we see happening to the Dollar today. We all know how that story ended for the Roman Empire.
Besides, since this discussion covers the past, present, and future, drawing these kinds of parallels seems perfectly logical to me.
If I recall correctly, he mentioned somewhere that it doesn't matter if the Dollar lost 98% of its purchasing power as long as wages were rising. Regarding that, once I find a moment to sit down and crunch some numbers, I’ll post them—it will become quite clear that the standard of living in the United States has been eroding due to inflation, not improving, over the last 50 years or so. While I’m using silver as my comparison, the same logic applies to gold.

Data? Numbers? Please. Is there anyone here with a shred of common sense who actually believes Americans today live at a lower standard of living than they did back in 1950? 😍

If we follow that logic, it implies that labor productivity in the American economy has been in a tailspin for half a century. What kind of data could possibly support such a ridiculous claim? None. Realistically, average hourly compensation in the U.S. economy has surged by about 160% over that period. How much would we have had to crash to suggest Americans are worse off than in 1950? Even a complete novice wouldn't buy that.

The bottom line is that gold is climbing because people are betting that bad macro news out of the States might trigger another round of QE. 😍 The price per ounce just jumped over 3% in a matter of minutes! You can't help but love a commodity that isn't built on pure speculation. 😍

dustyheron5 said:They’re playing games when I tell you... they knew exactly what that Democratic Party report looked like before they ever released it to the public...............

Take a look at this manipulation:

That’s just plain wrong. ☕

When prices start climbing, nobody starts crying "manipulation." That's just supply and demand doing its job. It happens because it *has* to happen. 😍

ironstag8 said:Look, those folks pulling the strings aren't some kind of omnipotent force—they can't stop the inevitable. They might be able to stall things for a bit, which is essentially what they're doing right now, but they can't prevent what's bound to happen eventually.

Didn't I tell you that, my friend indijanac!? 🙂

Core inflation sits under 2.5% in several countries right now. We saw prices go wild on the commodities markets a few months back, but lately, we’re seeing what looks like deflation simply because wages haven't kept pace to trigger an inflationary spiral.

Which countries? Check actual inflation data instead of whatever the government agencies feed you. Or just look at year-over-year prices for staples and energy in the USA or the UK, and you'll see inflation is much higher. Naturally, the state claims inflation is low by constantly tweaking how they measure it and swapping out the contents of the basket of goods.
A drop in the price of certain goods and services isn't deflation—true deflation is a reduction in the money supply, and the exact opposite is happening here.

But it was primarily introduced because people grew tired of the restrictions imposed by the gold standard.

The "restriction" of the gold standard was simply that governments couldn't just rack up debt (or print money) however they wanted to live beyond their means. For the average citizen, it was more than enough, providing stable money and relatively stable prices.

They didn't want it thirty years ago, and they certainly don't want it now. Look at the Eurozone as a glaring example of this entire saga. If this continues for much longer, it wouldn't surprise me to see far-right extremist parties taking power in various peripheral states.
We agree there. And we have the very system we live in to thank for that outcome.

Forget the data and the numbers for a second—is there anyone with common sense who actually believes Americans today have a lower standard of living than they did in 1950?
Except their standard of living is lower than in 1971, as crazy as that sounds...

That would imply labor productivity in the American economy has been tanking for half a century. What data could possibly prove that? None. Average hourly compensation in the US economy over that period has realistically risen by 160%. How could we have fallen so low that we claim Americans live worse than in 1950? Even a fool wouldn't believe that.

...so here is the data. First, the dollar inflation calculator:

http://www.shadowstats.com/inflation...&calc=Find+Out

Second, actual hourly wages:

http://ltparis.com/images/20110312-h...64-current.png
The sad truth is that Americans are living on credit; they are twice as indebted per capita as Greece, not to mention the costs of Medicaid, Medicare, and so on. This is happening precisely because they moved their industry overseas and started living on borrowed time.

So, gold is heading up because people are speculating that bad macro news from the USA might trigger another round of QE. The price per ounce jumped over 3% in a matter of minutes. Hard not to love a non-speculative commodity like that.
Besides, you forgot to mention the drop we saw yesterday and today—but I suppose that's just a "correction," right? 🙂