The downsides of big banks

darkmarlin92 said:HOW IS IT 200,000????????????????
If money is a fixed pie, and Steve has $17 while Ivan has $17, and they hate each other and aren't trading anything... where does the extra come from? If Steve just takes out a huge loan to go on vacation, where do those extra $1333 magically appear?

Please use a comma instead of a period—what you wrote looks like two hundred bucks. Two hundred thousand looks like 200,000.

Go study credit and deposit multiplication—seriously, just Google it. There are diagrams and everything. 😉

And thirdly, Smith? His theory was debunked in the very same decade it was created...

GDP and GDP per capita haven't really been considered the gold standard for measuring how much people are actually thriving for quite some time now, though I guess I'm not entirely sure where you're getting that from

It seems Zeitgeist 3 has taken a look—apparently, they’ve discovered that nothing beats a little bit of warmth and a shot of adrenaline to get things moving!

Arthur Booth96 said:GDP and GDP per capita haven't really been considered the gold standard for measuring how much people are actually thriving for quite some time now, though I guess I'm not entirely sure where you're getting that from

Probably from those idiots running this country blindfolded while pretending they're Wall Street geniuses. Or maybe I just picked up some stuff about GDP in school from professors who were actually political science majors instead of economists.
Yeah, pretty sure that's where I heard it.

Jaca just printed another 4,000, yet the total in the system hasn't budged from where it started. Inflation is sitting at 4%.

Ever since I started college, professors have been going on about how that isn't really considered the gold standard for measuring well-being anymore. And I'm not just hearing this from some economics grads who probably know more about it than any political science major would, but even from my actual professor at Columbia University
🤣
so, maybe you could tell us then, how exactly are we supposed to fix this injustice—or whatever fancy term you’d want to use for it?

p.s. here’s the link, just so you can tell me whether you think they’re idiots at The Economist too:
http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/501

Arthur Booth96 said:Maybe give that documentary *Money as Debt* a watch if you can't be bothered to slog through actual monetary economics textbooks instead.

edit: And just to be clear, it isn't some disgusting scam; it’s just that today's paper money is fiat currency, assuming you've heard the term. Basically, it all relies on trusting that random scrap of paper and having faith in the CB.

I mean, isn't paper just... paper? How does it actually get the power to buy stuff that's real?

Nicholas Turner said:It seems Zeitgeist 3 has taken a look—apparently, they’ve discovered that nothing beats a little bit of warmth and a shot of adrenaline to get things moving!

👍I think logic wins though.

I suppose we could just go back to melting down gold and adding alloys to refine it 🤦
or maybe we should try dealing with sheep instead, since you’re basically trying to charge me for a whole sheep when I’m only getting three-quarters of one for my money.

darkmarlin92 said:I mean, isn't paper just... paper? How does it actually get the power to buy stuff that's real?

With everything moving toward digital currency, how do you grant impulses any real authority when they don't actually exist? 😕

Arthur Booth96 said:Ever since I started college, professors have been going on about how that isn't really considered the gold standard for measuring well-being anymore. And I'm not just hearing this from some economics grads who probably know more about it than any political science major would, but even from my actual professor at Columbia University
🤣
so, maybe you could tell us then, how exactly are we supposed to fix this injustice—or whatever fancy term you’d want to use for it?

Fix the injustice? Honestly, I think just realizing what's actually going on is a good start.

So, what kind of currency do you think we should actually be using for these transactions? Tell me, what's your take?

darkmarlin92 said:👍I think logic wins though.

So—you’re basically admitting you watched a documentary where everything is laid out perfectly, and now you're trying to play Socratic philosopher by asking people to "uncover the truth" when you've already decided what the answer is?

Arthur Booth96 said:I suppose we could just go back to melting down gold and adding alloys to refine it 🤦
or maybe we should try dealing with sheep instead, since you’re basically trying to charge me for a whole sheep when I’m only getting three-quarters of one for my money.

Nah, I'm not feeling that. Honestly, I much prefer when Rockefeller just drops a billion in the bank and collects the interest—basically the same kind of profit your parents are handing over to Chase today. The system's perfect. If you've got it, you've got it. If you don't, you don't.

Arthur Booth96 said:So, what kind of currency do you think we should actually be using for these transactions? Tell me, what's your take?

With a system that doesn't hit you with insane fees just to use an ATM.

So then you'll have to explain to me how people are actually supposed to handle transactions with one another if we go down this road.
And if an entrepreneur doesn't have enough capital upfront, how are they meant to get a business off the ground without relying on credit? I mean, if credit is being issued, what’s the catch—is it just supposed to be handed out for free? Or should interest rates still exist to compensate the people who bother putting their money into a bank in the first place?
And don't even get me started on fees; I guess nobody is doing anything for free these days. If you have even a passing familiarity with how economics works, you probably realize that profit is the primary motivator for everything.

Nicholas Turner said:So—you’re basically admitting you watched a documentary where everything is laid out perfectly, and now you're trying to play Socratic philosopher by asking people to "uncover the truth" when you've already decided what the answer is?

Just looking for justice, man. Tell me, where am I even supposed to find it?

darkmarlin92 said:With a system that doesn't hit you with insane fees just to use an ATM.

Think about it this way:
You’re wealthy—you’ve got a massive stash of cash hidden under the mattress. Then some acquaintance comes knocking, asking for a loan. What’s your move? You aren't just handing over the money without making sure you'll actually see it again—and you certainly aren't doing it for free. You won't.

Arthur Booth96 said:So then you'll have to explain to me how people are actually supposed to handle transactions with one another if we go down this road.
And if an entrepreneur doesn't have enough capital upfront, how are they meant to get a business off the ground without relying on credit? I mean, if credit is being issued, what’s the catch—is it just supposed to be handed out for free? Or should interest rates still exist to compensate the people who bother putting their money into a bank in the first place?
And don't even get me started on fees; I guess nobody is doing anything for free these days. If you have even a passing familiarity with how economics works, you probably realize that profit is the primary motivator for everything.

Why can't we just have a balanced system that doesn't chase profit? Why should someone else make money off your hard work? We should be smart enough to set up a global system that doesn't care about your job or how much debt you're in. A system that just moves money from the buyer to the seller. Does that even make sense?