The downsides of big banks

darkmarlin92 said:Why can't we just have a balanced system that doesn't chase profit? Why should someone else make money off your hard work? We should be smart enough to set up a global system that doesn't care about your job or how much debt you're in. A system that just moves money from the buyer to the seller. Does that even make sense?

Oh, right—equality for everyone. We tried that once—I think they called it socialism. It didn't exactly work out...

Kate Foster12 said:Think about it this way:
You’re wealthy—you’ve got a massive stash of cash hidden under the mattress. Then some acquaintance comes knocking, asking for a loan. What’s your move? You aren't just handing over the money without making sure you'll actually see it again—and you certainly aren't doing it for free. You won't.

I'd just head to a notary and get a sworn statement with witnesses that they have to pay me back interest-free. Kind of like how banks work, except they make their money on the interest.

It doesn't really matter, I suppose, since we're all stuck in capitalism anyway. But if it helps you sleep better, just remember that every single system in history has eventually collapsed, so maybe this one will follow suit one day too.
And honestly, looking at your points, it seems like it’s more about your own sense of morality that's bothering you than the actual mechanics of how things work. You could have just said that in your opening post instead of dragging us through this roundabout way of arguing that doesn't even tie back to what you originally wrote.
You can spend days beating your head against the wall over this, but I think you probably realize by now that you can't actually change the world. When the people in power—and I'm not just talking about the current administration, but everyone from local leaders to global institutions—are essentially bought and paid for, they just write laws that serve the interest groups funding them while they pull all the strings. Real change requires a critical mass, and if you ask me, reaching that point feels pretty much impossible.

Kate Foster12 said:With everything moving toward digital currency, how do you grant impulses any real authority when they don't actually exist? 😕

Not gonna happen.

Arthur Booth96 said:It doesn't really matter, I suppose, since we're all stuck in capitalism anyway. But if it helps you sleep better, just remember that every single system in history has eventually collapsed, so maybe this one will follow suit one day too.
And honestly, looking at your points, it seems like it’s more about your own sense of morality that's bothering you than the actual mechanics of how things work. You could have just said that in your opening post instead of dragging us through this roundabout way of arguing that doesn't even tie back to what you originally wrote.
You can spend days beating your head against the wall over this, but I think you probably realize by now that you can't actually change the world. When the people in power—and I'm not just talking about the current administration, but everyone from local leaders to global institutions—are essentially bought and paid for, they just write laws that serve the interest groups funding them while they pull all the strings. Real change requires a critical mass, and if you ask me, reaching that point feels pretty much impossible.

The main thing is just getting people to wake up. Glad we're on the same page here.

Kate Foster12 said:Oh, right—equality for everyone. We tried that once—I think they called it socialism. It didn't exactly work out...

I kind of miss the version of socialism where people actually got help building houses or had decent jobs you could actually live on. Like, think about why socialism even died... what actually killed it? Capitalism. It's a total wrecking ball. I'm not really into politics, don't care for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.

darkmarlin92 said:I kind of miss the version of socialism where people actually got help building houses or had decent jobs you could actually live on. Like, think about why socialism even died... what actually killed it? Capitalism. It's a total wrecking ball. I'm not really into politics, don't care for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.

1. Someone has to foot the bill for that kind of support.
2. Those jobs were handed out through connections—nepotism hasn't gone away, either. We haven't even reached true capitalism yet.
3. Socialism vanished because it simply wasn't sustainable. Just look at the debt America left behind. Look at the rationing coupons, the endless lines just to get a cup of coffee...

Kate Foster12 said:1. Someone has to foot the bill for that kind of support.
2. Those jobs were handed out through connections—nepotism hasn't gone away, either. We haven't even reached true capitalism yet.
3. Socialism vanished because it simply wasn't sustainable. Just look at the debt America left behind. Look at the rationing coupons, the endless lines just to get a cup of coffee...

Foot the bill? Like, what if the government just used its own gear—like how the US Armed Forces used to build roads for nothing back in the day? What kind of capitalism was that? We had zero, but we still made it work. We've got companies like GE, Caterpillar, massive energy sectors... plenty of talent. So what's the deal? Do we really have to kiss the European Union's ass just to get Bechtel to come in and drain us dry?

Kate Foster12 said:1. Someone has to foot the bill for that kind of support.
2. Those jobs were handed out through connections—nepotism hasn't gone away, either. We haven't even reached true capitalism yet.
3. Socialism vanished because it simply wasn't sustainable. Just look at the debt America left behind. Look at the rationing coupons, the endless lines just to get a cup of coffee...

Back then, there were jobs for one group, not the other. Everything's different now though...

Kate Foster12 said:1. Someone has to foot the bill for that kind of support.
2. Those jobs were handed out through connections—nepotism hasn't gone away, either. We haven't even reached true capitalism yet.
3. Socialism vanished because it simply wasn't sustainable. Just look at the debt America left behind. Look at the rationing coupons, the endless lines just to get a cup of coffee...

Yeah, I wasn't even around for that, so I don't really remember.

darkmarlin92 said:Foot the bill? Like, what if the government just used its own gear—like how the US Armed Forces used to build roads for nothing back in the day? What kind of capitalism was that? We had zero, but we still made it work. We've got companies like GE, Caterpillar, massive energy sectors... plenty of talent. So what's the deal? Do we really have to kiss the European Union's ass just to get Bechtel to come in and drain us dry?

Back then, there were jobs for one group, not the other. Everything's different now though...

Yeah, I wasn't even around for that, so I don't really remember.

Did the materials just fall from the sky? Did the costs cover themselves? The state has its own machinery, but look at what the Republican policy of social sensitivity has actually achieved. It’s all well and good when you're hunting for new voters, but when it comes to fixing a budget deficit... it isn't so great. 😉

darkmarlin92 said:Foot the bill? Like, what if the government just used its own gear—like how the US Armed Forces used to build roads for nothing back in the day? What kind of capitalism was that? We had zero, but we still made it work. We've got companies like GE, Caterpillar, massive energy sectors... plenty of talent. So what's the deal? Do we really have to kiss the European Union's ass just to get Bechtel to come in and drain us dry?

Back then, there were jobs for one group, not the other. Everything's different now though...

Yeah, I wasn't even around for that, so I don't really remember.

There wasn't work for anyone. People were leaving in droves for Germany, Switzerland, and other places just to find a decent life.

darkmarlin92 said:Foot the bill? Like, what if the government just used its own gear—like how the US Armed Forces used to build roads for nothing back in the day? What kind of capitalism was that? We had zero, but we still made it work. We've got companies like GE, Caterpillar, massive energy sectors... plenty of talent. So what's the deal? Do we really have to kiss the European Union's ass just to get Bechtel to come in and drain us dry?

Back then, there were jobs for one group, not the other. Everything's different now though...

Yeah, I wasn't even around for that, so I don't really remember.

I wasn't part of that generation either, but I've heard enough. It’s a bit much to talk about the "good old days" when you don't actually have a clue what was really happening back then.

Kate Foster12 said:Did the materials just fall from the sky? Did the costs cover themselves? The state has its own machinery, but look at what the Republican policy of social sensitivity has actually achieved. It’s all well and good when you're hunting for new voters, but when it comes to fixing a budget deficit... it isn't so great. 😉

There wasn't work for anyone. People were leaving in droves for Germany, Switzerland, and other places just to find a decent life.

I wasn't part of that generation either, but I've heard enough. It’s a bit much to talk about the "good old days" when you don't actually have a clue what was really happening back then.

And then we can't do anything because we're buried in debt—we owe something like $45 billion while the whole budget is barely over $100 billion. Imagine that debt growing every single year just because people are borrowing more since they can't even afford the basics anymore, all while the government throws money at nonsense like handball arenas. It's pretty obvious. Debt keeps climbing, and interest payments get higher compared to what our weak economy and country can actually handle.
We should be building up state-owned companies instead of bringing in foreign corporations that don't give a damn about our people.

Kate Foster12 said:Did the materials just fall from the sky? Did the costs cover themselves? The state has its own machinery, but look at what the Republican policy of social sensitivity has actually achieved. It’s all well and good when you're hunting for new voters, but when it comes to fixing a budget deficit... it isn't so great. 😉

There wasn't work for anyone. People were leaving in droves for Germany, Switzerland, and other places just to find a decent life.

I wasn't part of that generation either, but I've heard enough. It’s a bit much to talk about the "good old days" when you don't actually have a clue what was really happening back then.

That's why Americans are one of the most emigrated nations, honestly.

Kate Foster12 said:Did the materials just fall from the sky? Did the costs cover themselves? The state has its own machinery, but look at what the Republican policy of social sensitivity has actually achieved. It’s all well and good when you're hunting for new voters, but when it comes to fixing a budget deficit... it isn't so great. 😉

There wasn't work for anyone. People were leaving in droves for Germany, Switzerland, and other places just to find a decent life.

I wasn't part of that generation either, but I've heard enough. It’s a bit much to talk about the "good old days" when you don't actually have a clue what was really happening back then.

yeah, exactly. that's not the point.

darkmarlin92 said:And then we can't do anything because we're buried in debt—we owe something like $45 billion while the whole budget is barely over $100 billion. Imagine that debt growing every single year just because people are borrowing more since they can't even afford the basics anymore, all while the government throws money at nonsense like handball arenas. It's pretty obvious. Debt keeps climbing, and interest payments get higher compared to what our weak economy and country can actually handle.
We should be building up state-owned companies instead of bringing in foreign corporations that don't give a damn about our people.

That's why Americans are one of the most emigrated nations, honestly.

yeah, exactly. that's not the point.

Exactly the opposite—if it’s a state-run entity, it means taxpayers are footing the entire bill. Besides, the benefits and conditions at multinational firms are generally superior. The only catch... you actually have to show up and work.

I honestly see nothing but the upside when it comes to JPMorgan Chase 🤷

whenever I find myself short on cash, I don't have to go around begging friends or family for favors; instead, I just borrow, leverage that capital, and let their money work for me

and when I’ve got a little extra lying around, I’m happy to lend it out and watch those interest payments roll in 😬

Banks are the absolute gold standard

whereas those government-run outfits have already proven themselves... socialism was basically a coma, which is why you don't see it anywhere on the global stage anymore
because people eventually realized it was just an excuse for the lazy to leech off the productive members of society

as for the answer to your question, just spend the day actually learning something... rather than wasting an hour or two on some mindless flick, grab some books (you know, those thick things sitting in the library, if you ask your auntie she'll tell you)

darkmarlin92 said:I kind of miss the version of socialism where people actually got help building houses or had decent jobs you could actually live on. Like, think about why socialism even died... what actually killed it? Capitalism. It's a total wrecking ball. I'm not really into politics, don't care for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.

The whole mess of capitalism boils down to "creative destruction" (Schumpeter). Sure, if you follow that logic, capitalism wiped out socialism because it replaced an inferior economic model with a superior one via this "creative destruction." But let’s get real—capitalism isn't all-powerful. The government holds more sway; today, through its monopoly on force and its ability to print money out of thin air for social reasons, the state effectively stunts that "creative destruction" process. In fact, our modern "welfare state" is starting to look more and more like socialism itself.

To all you socialism enthusiasts: don't lose hope just yet—there's still time, and perhaps your moment will come again.

Kate Foster12 said:Exactly the opposite—if it’s a state-run entity, it means taxpayers are footing the entire bill. Besides, the benefits and conditions at multinational firms are generally superior. The only catch... you actually have to show up and work.

Why would the government pay for things like water or food supplies? They’d just cover the shipping costs.
What's the point of paying for our own natural resources or energy potential? They won't even pay for the electricity, let alone the raw materials.
Yeah, basically waking up every day just to chase some imaginary dream, selling your brainpower and energy to a system that doesn't even let you break even—it just forces you to give more than you should.

JPMorgan Chase rules

Richard Lewis16 said:I honestly see nothing but the upside when it comes to JPMorgan Chase 🤷

whenever I find myself short on cash, I don't have to go around begging friends or family for favors; instead, I just borrow, leverage that capital, and let their money work for me

and when I’ve got a little extra lying around, I’m happy to lend it out and watch those interest payments roll in 😬

Banks are the absolute gold standard

whereas those government-run outfits have already proven themselves... socialism was basically a coma, which is why you don't see it anywhere on the global stage anymore
because people eventually realized it was just an excuse for the lazy to leech off the productive members of society

as for the answer to your question, just spend the day actually learning something... rather than wasting an hour or two on some mindless flick, grab some books (you know, those thick things sitting in the library, if you ask your auntie she'll tell you)

Nesta happened because there's no profit for interest groups—just a handful of people running energy giants and everything else. How could they succeed in a society that’s supposed to be impartial and look out for everyone? They were terrified things would fall apart if one big boss decided to stay neutral and actually favor domestic products over imports. That used to be how economics worked. It was organized politics that made sure both buyers and sellers stayed happy. Now, it’s just a constant grind for the little guy. Who actually lives a normal life anymore? More than half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Why?

Richard Lewis16 said:I honestly see nothing but the upside when it comes to JPMorgan Chase 🤷

whenever I find myself short on cash, I don't have to go around begging friends or family for favors; instead, I just borrow, leverage that capital, and let their money work for me

and when I’ve got a little extra lying around, I’m happy to lend it out and watch those interest payments roll in 😬

Banks are the absolute gold standard

whereas those government-run outfits have already proven themselves... socialism was basically a coma, which is why you don't see it anywhere on the global stage anymore
because people eventually realized it was just an excuse for the lazy to leech off the productive members of society

as for the answer to your question, just spend the day actually learning something... rather than wasting an hour or two on some mindless flick, grab some books (you know, those thick things sitting in the library, if you ask your auntie she'll tell you)

I don't need some book to teach me what's real. Go ahead, read all those books and tell me if any of them say the economy should create this massive gap between the rich and the poor.

Just more hysteria, I suppose.😵

Amanda Allen4 said:The whole mess of capitalism boils down to "creative destruction" (Schumpeter). Sure, if you follow that logic, capitalism wiped out socialism because it replaced an inferior economic model with a superior one via this "creative destruction." But let’s get real—capitalism isn't all-powerful. The government holds more sway; today, through its monopoly on force and its ability to print money out of thin air for social reasons, the state effectively stunts that "creative destruction" process. In fact, our modern "welfare state" is starting to look more and more like socialism itself.

To all you socialism enthusiasts: don't lose hope just yet—there's still time, and perhaps your moment will come again.

Honestly, the government doesn't control anything anymore. Most countries have zero manufacturing left because we're just flooded with cheap junk from overseas. No production means no jobs, and without jobs, nobody can actually survive in this world.
It makes you wonder why our national debt is so insane. Capitalism wrecked us, handed over our country's resources to corporations on long-term leases, and gutted our economy. And here we are, trying to fix everything by throwing massive amounts of borrowed money at the problem... but it's impossible. Everything is just about the money. You gotta realize that.

The idea that Americans are all living on the edge of poverty is just a flat-out nonsense thesis

Most people are actually leading pretty standard lives... I mean, look around, everyone has smartphones, high-speed internet, streaming services—stuff we couldn't even dream of back in the mid-century days
There’s also a much higher diagnosis rate for neurodivergence now compared to then, which honestly just means we're better at identifying it, so things are arguably better😉

If things were truly so golden during the old era, why was everyone trying to flee the country, and why were people constantly sneaking across the border to shop in other places?
Why were there only a handful of bus routes or train trips available?
The national debt was absolutely massive, and that administration was essentially running entirely on credit
It’s pretty clear you don't have much of a grasp on either history or basic economics😬
etc...

It obviously wasn't nearly as great as your nostalgia suggests😉

Maybe grab a history book or some philosophy and give it a read, then you might actually start to wrap your head around it
And let's not forget, they had those rigid seniority systems back then too😉

I don't see what's stopping you from making your own money, really🤷
Clearly, the current system works just fine for the majority who benefit from it, but as for those who are perpetually dissatisfied... well, luckily there are plenty of intentional communities out there where they can go live by their own rules

darkmarlin92 said:Honestly, the government doesn't control anything anymore. Most countries have zero manufacturing left because we're just flooded with cheap junk from overseas. No production means no jobs, and without jobs, nobody can actually survive in this world.
It makes you wonder why our national debt is so insane. Capitalism wrecked us, handed over our country's resources to corporations on long-term leases, and gutted our economy. And here we are, trying to fix everything by throwing massive amounts of borrowed money at the problem... but it's impossible. Everything is just about the money. You gotta realize that.

WRONG

It isn't really about the money, it's more about that fundamental human drive to exert influence and feed the ego...
which is just part of being human, I suppose, the way some people naturally dominate while others follow...

if currency didn't exist, we'd just be fighting over rocks, land, or sheer clout (though, wait, looking closer, it seems like those things are still acquired through cash, see how it works... 😬 )

maybe try picking up a few books from different fields once in a while... psychology and biology might help clear things up... 😉

you say there's no manufacturing, but then you claim production is coming from other countries?
so there actually is production after all... 😬
and if there's production, then there are jobs... 😉

I'd also suggest checking out that series, Carlos 😉

Richard Lewis16 said:The idea that Americans are all living on the edge of poverty is just a flat-out nonsense thesis

Most people are actually leading pretty standard lives... I mean, look around, everyone has smartphones, high-speed internet, streaming services—stuff we couldn't even dream of back in the mid-century days
There’s also a much higher diagnosis rate for neurodivergence now compared to then, which honestly just means we're better at identifying it, so things are arguably better😉

If things were truly so golden during the old era, why was everyone trying to flee the country, and why were people constantly sneaking across the border to shop in other places?
Why were there only a handful of bus routes or train trips available?
The national debt was absolutely massive, and that administration was essentially running entirely on credit
It’s pretty clear you don't have much of a grasp on either history or basic economics😬
etc...

It obviously wasn't nearly as great as your nostalgia suggests😉

Maybe grab a history book or some philosophy and give it a read, then you might actually start to wrap your head around it
And let's not forget, they had those rigid seniority systems back then too😉

I don't see what's stopping you from making your own money, really🤷
Clearly, the current system works just fine for the majority who benefit from it, but as for those who are perpetually dissatisfied... well, luckily there are plenty of intentional communities out there where they can go live by their own rules

If FDR lived on credit, we're living on hyper-credit.
Yeah, everyone has a TV, a smartphone, a car: but when you add up all your monthly bills, what’s left from an average American salary? You guys are talking nonsense, watching too many movies like Wall Street and closing your eyes when you walk through downtown, ignoring all the poverty and people scavenging through trash. I doubt it was like this just a few years ago. It's obviously the same in Europe, too. What do you think? I bet some "smart" book tells you to ignore poverty if you want to be a real leader. Hahahaha.🤣
You know it's proven that the world's strongest leaders today are basically brainless when it comes to investing. Why are they so successful? Because instead of brains, they've got balls. And I guess that's what works for you guys. 🤷

Richard Lewis16 said:The idea that Americans are all living on the edge of poverty is just a flat-out nonsense thesis

Most people are actually leading pretty standard lives... I mean, look around, everyone has smartphones, high-speed internet, streaming services—stuff we couldn't even dream of back in the mid-century days
There’s also a much higher diagnosis rate for neurodivergence now compared to then, which honestly just means we're better at identifying it, so things are arguably better😉

If things were truly so golden during the old era, why was everyone trying to flee the country, and why were people constantly sneaking across the border to shop in other places?
Why were there only a handful of bus routes or train trips available?
The national debt was absolutely massive, and that administration was essentially running entirely on credit
It’s pretty clear you don't have much of a grasp on either history or basic economics😬
etc...

It obviously wasn't nearly as great as your nostalgia suggests😉

Maybe grab a history book or some philosophy and give it a read, then you might actually start to wrap your head around it
And let's not forget, they had those rigid seniority systems back then too😉

I don't see what's stopping you from making your own money, really🤷
Clearly, the current system works just fine for the majority who benefit from it, but as for those who are perpetually dissatisfied... well, luckily there are plenty of intentional communities out there where they can go live by their own rules

Yeah, built for our upcoming generations