Forgiveness vs. Ego: How do you let go?

Drew Flores3 said:Now we're moving past individual consciousness and getting into collective consciousness... who knows, maybe you'll be the one to tip the scales toward the negative side. It's funny how we all fight our own battles, yet at the same time, we're all fighting this together.

Believe me when I say that I stand firmly on the side of light; I am certainly not one of those who seeks to spread darkness. 🙂 Besides, we are living in a Kali Yuga era, and humanity has yet to experience its true golden age; currently, only exceptional individuals emerge—those brilliant flashes of brilliance I have alluded to previously.

Thomas Garcia71 said:

they deserve even more attention, honestly... because they're hurting and they really just need some patience and warmth."

I mean, I guess there's some truth to that, if you're talking about getting them actual professional help or finding a community for them. I know from experience... I once tried to show some kindness and common sense to this totally toxic, bitter person, but man, it was such a massive waste of my time and energy.
You just can't fix everything.

I understand. 🙂 I, too, do not believe in exerting influence over others; I feel I have no right to do so, and I hold a deep disdain for manipulation, even when it is disguised with good intentions. Simply offering active attention and acknowledging a person for who they truly are is sufficient. People do not undergo transformation arbitrarily, and if they do change, it is never due to external pressure. The only genuine and profound change is that which occurs organically and solely for one's own sake.

Sandra Parker3 said:It seems like you’re speaking from your own personal experience, which makes it hard for me to wrap my head around why you hold such a bleak view of everything when you have such wonderful people around you. You mentioned those bright spots earlier and said you wouldn't generalize, but honestly, it feels like that's exactly what you're doing.

What I was talking about applies to all of humanity—to civilization and people in general. I’m looking at this objectively: the colonization and systematic looting of Africa, Asia, and South America, where entire populations were humiliated through cultural genocide and forced missionary work. I mean the slave trade, the exploitation of children in sweatshops for the fashion industry, and the horrors of sexual abuse and human trafficking. I’m talking about fascism, Nazism, the business of misery, and how certain groups weaponize victimhood for blackmail. I'm talking about corrupt politics that protect criminals, the black market for human organs in North Korea, the mysteries of Easter Island, and the genocide at Srebrenica—not to mention how some people still refuse to even call it a genocide. Grand and compassionate. The core principles of Western justice and global ethics—things that have been woven into the very fabric of our civilization—all point to the fact that... People have become such predatory, selfish, greedy, cold-hearted, inhuman, disgusting pieces of trash lately—nothing matters to them except their own damn profit. Total scum, honestly. Just absolute cosmic waste. Call it whatever you want...

And you actually think all that junk and space debris... They deserve way more attention than they get, mostly because they're miserable and because... They really just need some patience and a little warmth." 😕 😕

Can you really forgive someone just for being human?

I don't believe in forgiveness—I just don't see the point. I'm pretty sure I've already ranted about this somewhere else.

Look, everything I just said actually happened in our recent past, and honestly, it’s still happening right now. Do you seriously believe people are inherently good and that they only commit these kinds of monstrous atrocities because someone else's negative energy—which I assume you're implying is mine—pushed them to it? 🤷

I wasn't really aiming that at you, why would you think that?

Some people are just pure good, others are straight-up villains; there’s always that gray area in all of us where the light and the dark kind of bleed together. 😁 everything stays within the lines

but honestly, why wouldn't you make life a little easier on yourself? all it takes is a bit of patience, chilling out, not jumping to conclusions so fast, and maybe wearing that cliché smile we all know too well
and besides, how can you be so sure... maybe if you just calm down some idiot, he won't walk through his front door and ignore his wife just because she served him lukewarm soup🤷

Absolutely! These individuals are part of the very universe we inhabit, and I am firmly convinced they are far more miserable, being nothing more than products of this tragic world. It is certainly not an easy existence to be a monster. However, I find myself disinclined to dwell on the same point repeatedly; in my view, all people possess an equal measure of value—or lack thereof. In fact, I maintain the belief that they exist here specifically to mirror our own failings, serving as reminders that a small piece of them resides within each one of us.

hiddenhound3 said:Absolutely! These individuals are part of the very universe we inhabit, and I am firmly convinced they are far more miserable, being nothing more than products of this tragic world. It is certainly not an easy existence to be a monster. However, I find myself disinclined to dwell on the same point repeatedly; in my view, all people possess an equal measure of value—or lack thereof. In fact, I maintain the belief that they exist here specifically to mirror our own failings, serving as reminders that a small piece of them resides within each one of us.

it honestly feels like most people are actually pretty comfortable in their own skin

I don't really want to keep repeating myself, because to me, everyone is equally (un)worthy. In fact, I think they're here to hold up a mirror to our flaws and show us that there's a little bit of them hiding inside every one of us.

I'm not sure what the point of their existence is 🤷, but I'm convinced anyone can dig up at least a tiny grain of evil within themselves
without needing any help from some massive, global Evil that ties it all together

whether we decide to nurture it or if we'll just be fascinated by finding that little speck of darkness 🤷
is mostly up to us

When we search for ourselves, we look for the good, but we end up stumbling onto things we didn't expect either, right? (And vice versa too)

but...

"We all have villains in the US, but we also have love and peace. So why not give peace a chance for once."

John Lennon

so, why not?

🙂

dustyraven26 said:The very nature of being hurt is rooted in relationship; where there is a connection, there is inevitably comparison against an ideal or an expectation.
But I won't linger on the point too long.

That is precisely my own view.

And where exactly is the connection? 🤷
Clearly you missed my point entirely, but whatever.

dustyraven26 said:I have had the opportunity to associate with people who lived through the hell of Memphis, San Francisco, and Boston. I understand their traumas, particularly those of the individuals who were merely children at the time.

In my view, the current administration is truly "sick"; they seem far more preoccupied with funneling former public assets into private pockets than they are with providing adequate support to those victims.

However, every government is simply a reflection of its people. It is the citizenry that provides the strength behind the leadership. Consequently, if the government is failing, the nation itself is "sick"—devoid of empathy for individual suffering. In the web of human relationships, some even find these tragedies convenient, as they make their own struggles seem less significant by comparison.

Three ideological empires keep the populace "sick":

1. Collectivism, manifested through authority figures and leaders. It was precisely this force, appearing in the guise of extreme nationalism, that acted as the catalyst for war in this region. Thanks to the global movement toward individualization, human rights, and civil liberties, this empire is finally crumbling.

2. The market, expressed through consumerism. The modern crisis suggests that the market is not nearly as powerful a regulator as we once believed. The premise where profits are privatized while losses are socialized—borne by the taxpayers—is increasingly exposed as hypocritical. Furthermore, consumerism does not aim to satisfy human needs, but rather to generate profit by fueling a constant craving for material goods, effectively turning people into slaves to their possessions.

3. Institutionalized and ritualized religions. Since the primary function of any institution is to protect itself rather than fulfill its founding purpose, organized religions are showing an increasing inability to address contemporary challenges. Invoking tradition is merely a way to mask this impotence. The modern person is fundamentally different from those living two or three millennia ago.

Once these three ideological empires collapse within the human mind, the process of individualization will reach its conclusion, and a person will finally stand alone with themselves. Only then will they have a genuine chance to "heal"—not because they were told to, but because they realize that love and harmony represent true spiritual fulfillment. That is the only actual escape from suffering.

I honestly think we’re just going to be dealing with these little bouts of sickness every now and then.

Sandra Parker3 said:it honestly feels like most people are actually pretty comfortable in their own skin

I don't really want to keep repeating myself, because to me, everyone is equally (un)worthy. In fact, I think they're here to hold up a mirror to our flaws and show us that there's a little bit of them hiding inside every one of us.

I'm not sure what the point of their existence is 🤷, but I'm convinced anyone can dig up at least a tiny grain of evil within themselves
without needing any help from some massive, global Evil that ties it all together

whether we decide to nurture it or if we'll just be fascinated by finding that little speck of darkness 🤷
is mostly up to us

When we search for ourselves, we look for the good, but we end up stumbling onto things we didn't expect either, right? (And vice versa too)

but...

"We all have villains in the US, but we also have love and peace. So why not give peace a chance for once."

so, why not?

🙂

so, why not?

🙂

so, why not?

🙂
Let's stop the guesswork; you aren't in their shoes, so just be happy about that.

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of their existence even is 🤷

If they weren't necessary, they wouldn't be here.

but I am convinced that anyone can dig up at least a tiny grain of evil within themselves
and that happens without any help from the global Evil that binds it all together

That isn't the whole story. It is easy to be kind to those who are kind, but it is precisely when we face such destructive and persistent evil that our spiritual strength and humanity are truly tested. After all, we are talking about human beings, regardless of how much trash they may be.

what will we nurture, and will we be fascinated by the grain of evil we find 🤷
the choice is mostly ours

I do not believe in the possibility of choice. Not at all.

in the search for ourselves, we look for the good, yet we stumble upon things we didn't expect, don't we? (and vice versa)

I cannot speak for you, but the goal of my journey is simply the travel itself—exploration, discovery, and understanding; I am not searching for anything specific.

"We all have villains in the US, but we also have love and peace. So why not give peace a chance for once."

because humans are a corrupt race, filthy and wicked.. and peace isn't actually what interests us; rather, as I mentioned, most people are driven by profit—do you not believe me? If you doubt it, just look around you. Perhaps there is some truth to the idea that we live in a purgatory, because this certainly isn't paradise, nor is it hell itself.

I realize my line of thinking is peculiar and perhaps sounds contradictory, but I find myself drawn to paradoxes—understanding extremes, where philanthropy bleeds into misanthropy and back again. The interventions I make in this world mean nothing more than that; as an individual, I am far too weak, too small, and too insignificant to change anything. The world certainly would not look this way if I happened to be the CEO of the universe, but I am not. And since I am not the boss, I have no right to act as a judge either. I can only be an observer. I see where I stand, and from this vantage point, I have no license to participate in the dramatic narrative where the three main characters exist: the Prosecutor, the defense attorney, and the judge. I am not even a juror or a victim; I am merely the audience, drawing intimate conclusions. I believe I am much closer to objectivity the less I involve myself and the more I maintain my position as an observer. Yet, even in this grand drama of life, that is not a rewarding role, as I witness so many things but am powerless to act. To me, it feels as though most people are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time... being human is not an easy thing to navigate.🙂

Sandra Parker3 said:And where exactly is the connection? 🤷
Clearly you missed my point entirely, but whatever.

I honestly think we’re just going to be dealing with these little bouts of sickness every now and then.

There is also an attitude toward the action itself, which by extension dictates one's view of the actor.
Perhaps I haven't quite grasped the core of your argument, but as you put it, it doesn't really matter. 🙂

hiddenhound3 said:

so, why not?

🙂

so, why not?

🙂
Let's stop the guesswork; you aren't in their shoes, so just be happy about that.

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of their existence even is 🤷

If they weren't necessary, they wouldn't be here.

but I am convinced that anyone can dig up at least a tiny grain of evil within themselves
and that happens without any help from the global Evil that binds it all together

That isn't the whole story. It is easy to be kind to those who are kind, but it is precisely when we face such destructive and persistent evil that our spiritual strength and humanity are truly tested. After all, we are talking about human beings, regardless of how much trash they may be.

what will we nurture, and will we be fascinated by the grain of evil we find 🤷
the choice is mostly ours

I do not believe in the possibility of choice. Not at all.

in the search for ourselves, we look for the good, yet we stumble upon things we didn't expect, don't we? (and vice versa)

I cannot speak for you, but the goal of my journey is simply the travel itself—exploration, discovery, and understanding; I am not searching for anything specific.

"We all have villains in the US, but we also have love and peace. So why not give peace a chance for once."

because humans are a corrupt race, filthy and wicked.. and peace isn't actually what interests us; rather, as I mentioned, most people are driven by profit—do you not believe me? If you doubt it, just look around you. Perhaps there is some truth to the idea that we live in a purgatory, because this certainly isn't paradise, nor is it hell itself.

I realize my line of thinking is peculiar and perhaps sounds contradictory, but I find myself drawn to paradoxes—understanding extremes, where philanthropy bleeds into misanthropy and back again. The interventions I make in this world mean nothing more than that; as an individual, I am far too weak, too small, and too insignificant to change anything. The world certainly would not look this way if I happened to be the CEO of the universe, but I am not. And since I am not the boss, I have no right to act as a judge either. I can only be an observer. I see where I stand, and from this vantage point, I have no license to participate in the dramatic narrative where the three main characters exist: the Prosecutor, the defense attorney, and the judge. I am not even a juror or a victim; I am merely the audience, drawing intimate conclusions. I believe I am much closer to objectivity the less I involve myself and the more I maintain my position as an observer. Yet, even in this grand drama of life, that is not a rewarding role, as I witness so many things but am powerless to act. To me, it feels as though most people are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time... being human is not an easy thing to navigate.🙂

so, why not?

🙂
Let's stop the guesswork; you aren't in their shoes, so just be happy about that.

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of their existence even is 🤷

If they weren't necessary, they wouldn't be here.

but I am convinced that anyone can dig up at least a tiny grain of evil within themselves
and that happens without any help from the global Evil that binds it all together

That isn't the whole story. It is easy to be kind to those who are kind, but it is precisely when we face such destructive and persistent evil that our spiritual strength and humanity are truly tested. After all, we are talking about human beings, regardless of how much trash they may be.

what will we nurture, and will we be fascinated by the grain of evil we find 🤷
the choice is mostly ours

I do not believe in the possibility of choice. Not at all.

in the search for ourselves, we look for the good, yet we stumble upon things we didn't expect, don't we? (and vice versa)

I cannot speak for you, but the goal of my journey is simply the travel itself—exploration, discovery, and understanding; I am not searching for anything specific.

"We all have villains in the US, but we also have love and peace. So why not give peace a chance for once."

because humans are a corrupt race, filthy and wicked.. and peace isn't actually what interests us; rather, as I mentioned, most people are driven by profit—do you not believe me? If you doubt it, just look around you. Perhaps there is some truth to the idea that we live in a purgatory, because this certainly isn't paradise, nor is it hell itself.

I realize my line of thinking is peculiar and perhaps sounds contradictory, but I find myself drawn to paradoxes—understanding extremes, where philanthropy bleeds into misanthropy and back again. The interventions I make in this world mean nothing more than that; as an individual, I am far too weak, too small, and too insignificant to change anything. The world certainly would not look this way if I happened to be the CEO of the universe, but I am not. And since I am not the boss, I have no right to act as a judge either. I can only be an observer. I see where I stand, and from this vantage point, I have no license to participate in the dramatic narrative where the three main characters exist: the Prosecutor, the defense attorney, and the judge. I am not even a juror or a victim; I am merely the audience, drawing intimate conclusions. I believe I am much closer to objectivity the less I involve myself and the more I maintain my position as an observer. Yet, even in this grand drama of life, that is not a rewarding role, as I witness so many things but am powerless to act. To me, it feels as though most people are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time... being human is not an easy thing to navigate.🙂
Yeah, maybe there’s something to that, but they are still sad and need some tenderness

if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be here.

maybe they're just a cosmic mistake

or maybe just part of the food chain... 🤷

it isn't just about that. it's easy to be good to the good ones, but it's precisely when we face such destructive, constant evil that our spiritual strength and humanity really show up. regardless, we're talking about people, even if they are total garbage.

bolded:
it isn't easy
if we simplify things and strip away the extremes, then everyone around us is "good," but maintaining, leading, creating, and preserving relationships isn't easy at all, no matter how "good" those people are. it takes a massive amount of energy and "finesse" to establish that kind of dynamic, to work on your own basic assumptions first, and so on—it all comes down to interconnectedness... assuming, of course, that we actually want healthy relationships, and I don't see why we wouldn't

I don't believe in the possibility of choice. None at all.

damn, that can't be right 🤷
and you didn't exactly choose to take me off your block list 😁 🙏

I don't know about you, but my life's goal is just the journey itself—experiencing, learning, understanding—I'm not looking for anything specific.

Sure, that would be if we were talking about life in generalities, but I meant, you know... one session, you sink into your recliner and let your brain wander into analysis 😁
you've never stumbled onto something unexpected, and now you'll say you weren't even looking for it... tell me, has deep self-analysis ever led you down a path you hadn't known before? Have you ever been uncomfortably surprised? Because I have.

honestly, people are just a corrupt species—filthy and malicious.. and peace isn't actually what we're after. Like I said, most people are just chasing a buck. Don't believe me? Just look around you. Maybe there's a reason people claim we're living in purgatory; this definitely isn't paradise, but it isn't hell either....

I don't know..... why do you assume profit is inherently negative?
I don't see anything wrong with people profiting in certain relationships, or even striving for it—the line should probably be drawn somewhere around when the other person clearly starts losing out.... something like that

Anyway.... and regarding the whole idea of free will... humans are a corrupt race, yet He still allowed (the choice) for them to tear Gordana Quota away from Him 🙂

personally, it feels to me like most people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.. we aren't great at being alone with ourselves🙂

now you're just speculating
if it weren't necessary, they wouldn't have been in that spot at that moment

and why is there nothing under the smiley face😢

goodnight

Look, I’m not the type to hold a grudge. If I realize I messed up, I’ll be the first to say "my bad" and own it..
Sometimes, depending on how bad things get, I don't just forget it—it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, you know? But I still forgive. I just refuse to carry around someone else's bitterness, hate, or garbage... I have zero interest in turning into some bitter, hateful old woman. For me, forgiving is actually kind of healing. As for the person who hurt me? I don't wish them any ill will, but things aren't ever going to be the same. I'm more cautious now, definitely more skeptical, but I still try to believe there's at least a tiny shred of good left in everyone. If there isn't... well, they'll have to answer to God for that..
I always go back to that saying: To err is human, to forgive divine.🙂

Forgive yourself. It’s really the only thing left to do.
Forgive the delusions, the foolishness, the little illusions you use to soothe your own ego—standing face-to-face with your own demons.

For thousands of years, people have been fed these grand narratives about forgiveness. Everyone loves to brag about how forgiving they are.
Who should we forgive—our enemies?
And what exactly are we forgiving—their hostility?
I'm just being reductive here.

One ought to wonder: is what you're saying actually yours—unfiltered and honest—or is it just some rehearsed pattern, repeated until it sounds true?

Besides, if I can't even find mercy for myself, how could I possibly extend it to anyone else?

Brenda Adams2 said:Look, I’m not the type to hold a grudge. If I realize I messed up, I’ll be the first to say "my bad" and own it..
Sometimes, depending on how bad things get, I don't just forget it—it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, you know? But I still forgive. I just refuse to carry around someone else's bitterness, hate, or garbage... I have zero interest in turning into some bitter, hateful old woman. For me, forgiving is actually kind of healing. As for the person who hurt me? I don't wish them any ill will, but things aren't ever going to be the same. I'm more cautious now, definitely more skeptical, but I still try to believe there's at least a tiny shred of good left in everyone. If there isn't... well, they'll have to answer to God for that..
I always go back to that saying: To err is human, to forgive divine.🙂

So—well then.
Sin is simply part of the human condition—isn't it?
With God, goodbye.

The end of the story—let's raise a glass to the illusions.

That was quite the dramatic conclusion you drew there—and look, it’s perfectly fine to have an opinion—but it isn't particularly fair to impose your perspective as if it were the singular, objective truth. While I give it more thought, my own reflections centered more on forgiveness through a psychological and sociological lens; though, to be honest, I've always felt it's a concept far too elusive to pin down strictly within those social sciences. So, I leaned toward the spiritual side of things. That said, I see many others here have tied it back to religious contexts—which wasn't exactly my primary aim, but I suppose connections happen.

The reality is that for me—and for a few others participating in this thread—forgiveness is a practical tool. It helps us navigate the darker sides of human relationships so we can focus on the good ones; after all, life is far too short to spend our precious mental energy revolving around negativity. Now, some might label what I’m describing as mere common sense, or perhaps simple acceptance, or even just tolerance. They’re all incredibly similar, really, but I feel we’ve drifted somewhat into a semantic debate over linguistics rather than actually dissecting the actual mechanism of understanding, acceptance, forgiveness... or whatever term one chooses to use.

At its core, I was simply describing a way of living that makes me happier, more content, and generally more at peace. I realize there will always be a segment of the population that sees no point in this approach—people who likely possess entirely different internal mechanisms that (one hopes) keep them happy and fulfilled. My ultimate hope, however, is that perhaps someone prompted by this discussion might start reflecting on these themes and stumble upon even a tiny insight that makes their life a little brighter, if only for a moment. 🙂

Sandra Parker3 said:Oscar is great, but he misses the mark sometimes, or people just misread him 😁

The move is to ignore your enemies, and once you pull that off, you actually find some peace.

The goal should be finding our own inner peace, not making sure our enemies stay pissed off.

People who go out of their way to insult, hurt, or—God forbid—humiliate those close to them aren't doing it on purpose or with a calculated plan.
It's just their pathetic little defense mechanism as they struggle to survive in this brutal, cruel world.
They lash out, kick, and strike at anyone within reach.
It doesn't bother me. Almost everyone is like that deep down. I'm used to it. Honestly, it doesn't phase me one bit.
They can't touch me.
I won't let them get to me.

You keep saying it, over and over... but you don't really sound like you believe it.🤷

Well!
What can I even say to that...

I think it's pretty obvious now. I am at peace.🙂
I responded to your provocation with silence.
Does that make me credible? Or am I just a liar, like you suddenly claimed I was...

You... you're just aimless...

I don't have enemies.
But then again, I don't have specific friends either.😁
At least not by name; everyone and everything is a friend to me.
So, here I am, just existing on my own in this vast space (surrounded by good vibes).🤣
It's fine.
I understand it all.
But I'm not going to brag about it.🙂
Take care.👋

Jose Ramirez36 said:That was quite the dramatic conclusion you drew there—and look, it’s perfectly fine to have an opinion—but it isn't particularly fair to impose your perspective as if it were the singular, objective truth. While I give it more thought, my own reflections centered more on forgiveness through a psychological and sociological lens; though, to be honest, I've always felt it's a concept far too elusive to pin down strictly within those social sciences. So, I leaned toward the spiritual side of things. That said, I see many others here have tied it back to religious contexts—which wasn't exactly my primary aim, but I suppose connections happen.

The reality is that for me—and for a few others participating in this thread—forgiveness is a practical tool. It helps us navigate the darker sides of human relationships so we can focus on the good ones; after all, life is far too short to spend our precious mental energy revolving around negativity. Now, some might label what I’m describing as mere common sense, or perhaps simple acceptance, or even just tolerance. They’re all incredibly similar, really, but I feel we’ve drifted somewhat into a semantic debate over linguistics rather than actually dissecting the actual mechanism of understanding, acceptance, forgiveness... or whatever term one chooses to use.

At its core, I was simply describing a way of living that makes me happier, more content, and generally more at peace. I realize there will always be a segment of the population that sees no point in this approach—people who likely possess entirely different internal mechanisms that (one hopes) keep them happy and fulfilled. My ultimate hope, however, is that perhaps someone prompted by this discussion might start reflecting on these themes and stumble upon even a tiny insight that makes their life a little brighter, if only for a moment. 🙂

Yeah, it’s basically like a preventative measure—kind of clearing out the mental clutter or bad moods before they take over, which just leaves more room for positive vibes and healthier ways of acting...

(I won't quote the rest of what you wrote, regardless of what you call that mechanism...)

Anonymous said:Well!
What can I even say to that...

I think it's pretty obvious now. I am at peace.🙂
I responded to your provocation with silence.
Does that make me credible? Or am I just a liar, like you suddenly claimed I was...

You... you're just aimless...

I don't have enemies.
But then again, I don't have specific friends either.😁
At least not by name; everyone and everything is a friend to me.
So, here I am, just existing on my own in this vast space (surrounded by good vibes).🤣
It's fine.
I understand it all.
But I'm not going to brag about it.🙂
Take care.👋

I wasn't provoking you at all

Am I credible? Or am I a liar, just like you suddenly called me...

I didn't call you a liar

I said you don't seem convinced by what you're saying, because you kept repeating "it doesn't bother me, it doesn't touch me, I won't let it, it can't..."
usually that's just a sign of someone trying to convince themselves of something, which means it's not actually there yet.

it's the same way I don't feel like you're at peace right now either
I don't think a person can be that way and simultaneously view a very mild comment as a provocation
and take my lack of conviction in your words as if I were telling you that you're lying🤷

there you go

You... colorless...

...

Brenda Adams2 said:Look, I’m not the type to hold a grudge. If I realize I messed up, I’ll be the first to say "my bad" and own it..
Sometimes, depending on how bad things get, I don't just forget it—it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, you know? But I still forgive. I just refuse to carry around someone else's bitterness, hate, or garbage... I have zero interest in turning into some bitter, hateful old woman. For me, forgiving is actually kind of healing. As for the person who hurt me? I don't wish them any ill will, but things aren't ever going to be the same. I'm more cautious now, definitely more skeptical, but I still try to believe there's at least a tiny shred of good left in everyone. If there isn't... well, they'll have to answer to God for that..
I always go back to that saying: To err is human, to forgive divine.🙂

Oh, wonderful. It’s just great to feel like some kind of deity, isn't it? Even if it's just for a fleeting second when you’re smugly wielding the power of forgiveness like it's some tool you've selfishly decided to let others use... I mean, I guess that's the ultimate goal, right? To be godlike.
But honestly, who actually manufactures this "goal," and what's their angle?

If you want to wrap your head around why forgiveness is basically just a complementary product designed by some (organized) follower group to balance out their other product—sin—you have to look at it through the lens of psychological defense mechanisms.

The whole premise is built on a flawed foundation because it tries to pit forgiveness against the ego, when in reality, they’re actually working hand-in-hand.
Setting them against each other implies conflict, and what ever comes from conflict? Like, when two sides go to war, is there even a winner or a loser? Everyone fighting is losing, period. Even in an "internal" struggle where different manifestations of the ego clash... well, no matter which part of the ego wins, you're still just left with a fragmented ego.
Who else builds their entire future on the ashes of their enemies?

So, if the idea is to use forgiveness to feel "godlike," then obviously the act of forgiving stems from the ego—it's an inherently ego-driven move. But there’s more to the story than just that.

Someone commits an act that’s labeled a sin, something "wrong" or "invalid," and then this "forgiveness" is prescribed to neutralize it. But think about what that actually entails...
Forgiveness is framed as this divine power (or so they tell us), so when someone acts as the forgiver, they're playing God. It's a massive ego trip.
The way forgiveness works is that it attempts—though fails miserably—to change what already happened. It's a total mental gymnastic stunt. Since you can't actually rewrite history, all you're really doing is performing a little psychological trick to relieve the pressure or guilt caused by the action.
Essentially, the person granting forgiveness puts themselves in a superior position compared to the person receiving it, creating this unnecessary power imbalance. One person holds all the cards, and the receiver ends up in debt. They’re suddenly beholden to the person who "allowed" them to be forgiven.

And that’s where gratitude enters the fray. Gratitude serves as a way to restore psychological equilibrium between the person in debt and the person holding the claim.
But what is gratitude really about, besides paying back a debt? It’s also about the praise the recipient gives to the forgiver. In that moment, the forgiver is feeling superior, and they seek out that validation—that ego boost—through praise to reinforce their dominant position.

So, whether we're talking about praise, thanks, forgiveness, or sins, they all seem to follow this same pattern. It's all part of the same machine.

Forgiveness just comes naturally now that I've realized nobody is actually responsible for their own mess. Since making that shift, I can't even hurt someone else without feeling like I'm hurting myself first. It's annoying. I still get angry sometimes, sure, but I find my center pretty quickly. My ego isn't driving the bus nearly as much as it used to, so I'm just trying to follow my gut—even if the people around me make that a massive headache. Honestly, I'm starting to see that I have nothing to complain about. Nobody is better or worse than I am.

I often think of that old saying: To err is human, to forgive is divine.

Except that's not quite right. Being human means forgiving, healing, and moving on. Holding onto hate only damages me, not the person I'm mad at. And frankly, that bitterness doesn't give me any kind of satisfaction anymore.

Kenneth Parker15 said:Forgiveness just comes naturally now that I've realized nobody is actually responsible for their own mess. Since making that shift, I can't even hurt someone else without feeling like I'm hurting myself first. It's annoying. I still get angry sometimes, sure, but I find my center pretty quickly. My ego isn't driving the bus nearly as much as it used to, so I'm just trying to follow my gut—even if the people around me make that a massive headache. Honestly, I'm starting to see that I have nothing to complain about. Nobody is better or worse than I am.

I often think of that old saying: To err is human, to forgive is divine.

Except that's not quite right. Being human means forgiving, healing, and moving on. Holding onto hate only damages me, not the person I'm mad at. And frankly, that bitterness doesn't give me any kind of satisfaction anymore.

What exactly led you to the conclusion that no one is responsible for their situation? How does one reach such an understanding?

Once I finally let go of all that guilt and shame, I felt this sudden sense of freedom—kind of like being a kid again. I just stopped feeding into that endless cycle of hate that seems to run everything these days. Realizing that I wasn't actually responsible for most of the things that happened to me changed my perspective; it made me way more empathetic toward everyone else. Honestly, I feel more grounded and spiritually resilient than ever because of it. It’s hard for anyone to get under my skin or let me down now. That’s the real power you get from understanding love. Plus, once you reach that point, you don't lose your drive. You just keep getting back up, stronger every time people try to tear you down or disappoint you. As Jesus said, if you build your house on a rock, it won't fall. For me, that means building myself on a foundation of understanding—both for myself and for others. I'm not a believer, but he had a few good points. I finally realized I'm part of something much bigger.

Peter Phillips32 said:Oh, wonderful. It’s just great to feel like some kind of deity, isn't it? Even if it's just for a fleeting second when you’re smugly wielding the power of forgiveness like it's some tool you've selfishly decided to let others use... I mean, I guess that's the ultimate goal, right? To be godlike.
But honestly, who actually manufactures this "goal," and what's their angle?

If you want to wrap your head around why forgiveness is basically just a complementary product designed by some (organized) follower group to balance out their other product—sin—you have to look at it through the lens of psychological defense mechanisms.

The whole premise is built on a flawed foundation because it tries to pit forgiveness against the ego, when in reality, they’re actually working hand-in-hand.
Setting them against each other implies conflict, and what ever comes from conflict? Like, when two sides go to war, is there even a winner or a loser? Everyone fighting is losing, period. Even in an "internal" struggle where different manifestations of the ego clash... well, no matter which part of the ego wins, you're still just left with a fragmented ego.
Who else builds their entire future on the ashes of their enemies?

So, if the idea is to use forgiveness to feel "godlike," then obviously the act of forgiving stems from the ego—it's an inherently ego-driven move. But there’s more to the story than just that.

Someone commits an act that’s labeled a sin, something "wrong" or "invalid," and then this "forgiveness" is prescribed to neutralize it. But think about what that actually entails...
Forgiveness is framed as this divine power (or so they tell us), so when someone acts as the forgiver, they're playing God. It's a massive ego trip.
The way forgiveness works is that it attempts—though fails miserably—to change what already happened. It's a total mental gymnastic stunt. Since you can't actually rewrite history, all you're really doing is performing a little psychological trick to relieve the pressure or guilt caused by the action.
Essentially, the person granting forgiveness puts themselves in a superior position compared to the person receiving it, creating this unnecessary power imbalance. One person holds all the cards, and the receiver ends up in debt. They’re suddenly beholden to the person who "allowed" them to be forgiven.

And that’s where gratitude enters the fray. Gratitude serves as a way to restore psychological equilibrium between the person in debt and the person holding the claim.
But what is gratitude really about, besides paying back a debt? It’s also about the praise the recipient gives to the forgiver. In that moment, the forgiver is feeling superior, and they seek out that validation—that ego boost—through praise to reinforce their dominant position.

So, whether we're talking about praise, thanks, forgiveness, or sins, they all seem to follow this same pattern. It's all part of the same machine.

I don't buy that "egoist" part at all... Why on earth would I be selfish just because I chose to forgive?😕🤷Because I refuse to live in a cloud of hate, turning into some bitter, resentful woman eaten alive by anger. I don't want to end up becoming just like the person who screwed me over in the first place...🤷It's just how I am. I'm not doing it for anyone else; I'm doing it for myself. It makes me feel good, like I've been cleansed. I don't want to drag this heavy baggage from my past around. Look, some things aren't easy to let go of, but I'm working on it. And honestly, why wouldn't you? You aren't proving anything to anyone but yourself... showing that you're a human who messes up but also knows how to forgive. But you've gotta be self-aware about your own screw-ups too, and have the guts to actually say it and show it. Not everyone can do that—to own up and make amends.🙂I'm not looking for a handout or a debt to be paid. I'm not expecting anything. Unlike some people out there, I've finally figured out what actually matters and what's worth fighting for. But hey, that's a whole different conversation.

Let me try to weigh in on this... people are just incredibly complex creatures, maybe too much so given how diverse we all are. What even is the ego? It’s basically that conscious part of your personality—your self-awareness, your sense of worth, knowing who you actually are and who you aren't. Pride is pretty much baked right into that ego structure, and I guess that’s exactly what stops most people from being able to forgive...
How does it work? Someone puts you down, hurts you, or treats you unfairly, whether it’s physical or emotional pain. Maybe you realize in a relationship that you’re being suppressed, pushed to the sidelines, or that you’re giving way more than you’re getting back... when someone has an oversized ego, they might only be able to take an insult once. There isn't a second chance, and there's certainly no forgiveness. The ego is too strong, pride gets in the way, and the relationship just ends...
It’s nice to see someone writing about forgiveness and trying to make people more "human" and enlightened through it, but we shouldn't forget that humans are emotional beings. For most people, I guess emotions carry way more weight than whatever their superego tells them to do...
Suppressing negative emotions, or even the ego itself, just to achieve forgiveness is a lot harder than people like to admit...

Like I said, people are complicated, and I think we're still very much driven by those primal, caveman instincts...
The ego is necessary, though. It has to exist so we can maintain some level of self-respect. Without an ego, I don't know who we'd be—just empty shells, I guess...
Now, I'm not talking about those "inflated" egos where someone's sense of self-worth has zero basis in reality. Like those idiots who buy a Ford or a Ferrari and immediately act like they own the place, trying to pull God's beard while looking down on everyone else like they're ants...
I’m talking about having a strong ego built on certain principles that shouldn't be violated—like being true to yourself. You shouldn't sacrifice that for some ideals that leave you stuck in compromising relationships where your deepest self is constantly fighting back...😁😁