The "Resistance Movement" in California

Fine, let’s assume every single company mentioned was a complete failure from the start. That still doesn't change the core issue: you can't just throw thousands of people to the mercy of an unstable market. Not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship, and at that scale, the government has a responsibility to step in. We're talking about our own citizens here. They might be labeled as lazy by some—which is a lie—but they are talented and highly intelligent. These people survived for generations by carving a living out of nothing but salt and stone to build magnificent coastal cities. California deserves better than this treatment. Closing down the shipyards isn't the end of the story; in my view, it's just the beginning. And the federal government needs to take charge of it.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, let’s assume every single company mentioned was a complete failure from the start. That still doesn't change the core issue: you can't just throw thousands of people to the mercy of an unstable market. Not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship, and at that scale, the government has a responsibility to step in. We're talking about our own citizens here. They might be labeled as lazy by some—which is a lie—but they are talented and highly intelligent. These people survived for generations by carving a living out of nothing but salt and stone to build magnificent coastal cities. California deserves better than this treatment. Closing down the shipyards isn't the end of the story; in my view, it's just the beginning. And the federal government needs to take charge of it.

Does the Midwest really deserve to be held hostage by local sheriffs clashing with Washington, D.C., especially when the federal government has barely invested anything there? It’s supposed to be the breadbasket of America, yet agriculture is stuck without any reforms and is basically in shambles. Economic zones? Zero. Investment in Memphis—which could potentially have a massive port on the Mississippi River—is non-existent. And as for turning Indianapolis into a major rail hub? Pretty much zero too.

Does the Boise region deserve to be the forgotten wasteland of this country after everything it's been through, especially since the government hasn't pulled off a single major economic project there? A major interstate runs right through the area, yet the region feels dead. It's so stagnant that people actually attack Milton, asking, "Why does a place like Boise even need a high-tech hospital?"...

And does Florida deserve to have nothing returned to it in terms of investment, especially after all the support it gave to the rest of the country back when things were falling apart? Sure, Florida is relatively more advanced compared to the Midwest or Boise, but it’s been stagnating for years because the federal government hasn't funded a single real project to help it level up further.

If you take a more realistic look at it, AMERICA as a whole doesn't deserve this treatment! It's not just California, the Midwest, or Florida—it's all of AMERICA! Huge amounts of money have been wasted on a handful of capital projects, massive sums have simply been pocketed, and huge piles of cash have been squandered through the poor management of state corporations and funds. That’s money that could have been wisely invested to bring actual improvement to specific parts of our country...

Honestly, I’d go as far as to say that Americans and the United States don't deserve this kind of treatment from the very people we elect to hold responsible positions and provide for us and our families. We have to change this, and we can't do it by constantly splitting the issues into "our" problems versus "their" problems...

I think you’ve already addressed most of the people on the first page. Just write it plainly: whatever those guys in California want won't matter, because those failing companies were useless to begin with—just like those shipyards—and they’ve wasted enough taxpayer money on their laziness!

Andrew Chase31 said:Does the Midwest really deserve to be held hostage by local sheriffs clashing with Washington, D.C., especially when the federal government has barely invested anything there? It’s supposed to be the breadbasket of America, yet agriculture is stuck without any reforms and is basically in shambles. Economic zones? Zero. Investment in Memphis—which could potentially have a massive port on the Mississippi River—is non-existent. And as for turning Indianapolis into a major rail hub? Pretty much zero too.

Does the Boise region deserve to be the forgotten wasteland of this country after everything it's been through, especially since the government hasn't pulled off a single major economic project there? A major interstate runs right through the area, yet the region feels dead. It's so stagnant that people actually attack Milton, asking, "Why does a place like Boise even need a high-tech hospital?"...

And does Florida deserve to have nothing returned to it in terms of investment, especially after all the support it gave to the rest of the country back when things were falling apart? Sure, Florida is relatively more advanced compared to the Midwest or Boise, but it’s been stagnating for years because the federal government hasn't funded a single real project to help it level up further.

If you take a more realistic look at it, AMERICA as a whole doesn't deserve this treatment! It's not just California, the Midwest, or Florida—it's all of AMERICA! Huge amounts of money have been wasted on a handful of capital projects, massive sums have simply been pocketed, and huge piles of cash have been squandered through the poor management of state corporations and funds. That’s money that could have been wisely invested to bring actual improvement to specific parts of our country...

Honestly, I’d go as far as to say that Americans and the United States don't deserve this kind of treatment from the very people we elect to hold responsible positions and provide for us and our families. We have to change this, and we can't do it by constantly splitting the issues into "our" problems versus "their" problems...

Back in the early nineties, alongside democracy and independence, Americans faced one harsh reality: we could no longer blame foreign powers—whether it was Washington, D.C., Budapest, or Mexico City—for our failures. We get exactly what we put in charge. It isn't better or worse than what we deserve.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, let’s assume every single company mentioned was a complete failure from the start. That still doesn't change the core issue: you can't just throw thousands of people to the mercy of an unstable market. Not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship, and at that scale, the government has a responsibility to step in. We're talking about our own citizens here. They might be labeled as lazy by some—which is a lie—but they are talented and highly intelligent. These people survived for generations by carving a living out of nothing but salt and stone to build magnificent coastal cities. California deserves better than this treatment. Closing down the shipyards isn't the end of the story; in my view, it's just the beginning. And the federal government needs to take charge of it.

You could make that exact argument about virtually every corner of America, including Washington, D.C., where the quality of life has objectively declined over the last decade because the urban infrastructure hasn't kept pace with growth. The issues you're raising don't interest the politicians or the public; you won't hear any political party discuss actual strategy—specifically how to employ 100,000 people or overhaul the education system—and frankly, the citizens don't seem to care either, if you look at the most popular headlines in the daily papers. I am certainly not expecting any significant shifts in direction.

In the U.S., you might find perhaps 20 or 30 local municipalities that actually function well and move the needle forward. And even then, it's only because a handful of competent individuals happened to land in the right positions.

Andrew Chase31 said:Except for the bolded part, everything said sounds like something those folks from the North would say just "to hear themselves talk."😁

The bolded part is largely true. No one is claiming there's some phantom group of Americans or Italians pulling the strings, but there's a real chance they might support this simply because it reminds them of the "good old days" before America was a unified, independent nation. Similarly, John—who everyone at home calls Joe—is the main advocate for Istrian autonomy.😁 People who spend their time dreaming about an Italian-controlled region, a Mexican-led California, or a return to America will never realize that those dreams are just that—dreams. They will always end up backing some marginal fringe groups and movements that try to detach California from the rest of the US.

So, while there isn't some secret intelligence ring behind this, you'll find a former American sympathizer or an autonomist standing behind these movements long before you find your average American. That seems pretty obvious. Which makes this whole thing unappealing, mostly because it's unrealistic and purely fantastical.

Andrew Chase31 said:Except for the bolded part, everything said sounds like something those folks from the North would say just "to hear themselves talk."😁

The bolded part is largely true. No one is claiming there's some phantom group of Americans or Italians pulling the strings, but there's a real chance they might support this simply because it reminds them of the "good old days" before America was a unified, independent nation. Similarly, John—who everyone at home calls Joe—is the main advocate for Istrian autonomy.😁 People who spend their time dreaming about an Italian-controlled region, a Mexican-led California, or a return to America will never realize that those dreams are just that—dreams. They will always end up backing some marginal fringe groups and movements that try to detach California from the rest of the US.

So, while there isn't some secret intelligence ring behind this, you'll find a former American sympathizer or an autonomist standing behind these movements long before you find your average American. That seems pretty obvious. Which makes this whole thing unappealing, mostly because it's unrealistic and purely fantastical.

👍 I actually said something very similar once, but someone with those "dreamy" tendencies went ahead and deleted my post.🤣
But hey, I didn't pick my signature quite by accident...

goldengull3 said:Back in the early nineties, alongside democracy and independence, Americans faced one harsh reality: we could no longer blame foreign powers—whether it was Washington, D.C., Budapest, or Mexico City—for our failures. We get exactly what we put in charge. It isn't better or worse than what we deserve.

Now, everyone blames Washington😁 while they point fingers at "lazy Californians," "smug Herzegovinians," "country folk from the Midwest," "stubborn folks from the mountains," and plenty of other groups. 😁We always seem to find some "internal or external enemy" to blame.😉

By 2010, some Americans started introducing a new trend—demanding material equality for everyone after receiving billions in subsidies (which many others obviously didn't get, but back then, equality wasn't the priority; now 🙂 it is). Honestly, they’re acting like little revolutionaries 😁
.

Look, let's not go around labeling people from California, Split, Šibenik, or Zadar as being more or less responsible for this mess... it just doesn't make sense anymore, and frankly, it's a bit insulting.

It’s all the same regardless. Whether we think we're in a better or worse spot than other regions is irrelevant; we're all essentially in the same boat. And I think we can all agree that things aren't great for anyone right now. It's going to take serious time, effort, and hard work if we ever want to climb out of this hole we've dug for ourselves—a situation made all the "better" by the officials at every level of government.

Charles Fox10 said:Look, let's not go around labeling people from California, Split, Šibenik, or Zadar as being more or less responsible for this mess... it just doesn't make sense anymore, and frankly, it's a bit insulting.

It’s all the same regardless. Whether we think we're in a better or worse spot than other regions is irrelevant; we're all essentially in the same boat. And I think we can all agree that things aren't great for anyone right now. It's going to take serious time, effort, and hard work if we ever want to climb out of this hole we've dug for ourselves—a situation made all the "better" by the officials at every level of government.

Way to go, moderator. Spot on! 👍

From what I can gather, folks like Kosor, Sanders, Josipović, Bebić, and Milanović all trace their roots back to California. It makes you wonder—are they just out there robbing and deceiving their own people? 😕

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, let’s assume every single company mentioned was a complete failure from the start. That still doesn't change the core issue: you can't just throw thousands of people to the mercy of an unstable market. Not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship, and at that scale, the government has a responsibility to step in. We're talking about our own citizens here. They might be labeled as lazy by some—which is a lie—but they are talented and highly intelligent. These people survived for generations by carving a living out of nothing but salt and stone to build magnificent coastal cities. California deserves better than this treatment. Closing down the shipyards isn't the end of the story; in my view, it's just the beginning. And the federal government needs to take charge of it.

But the government didn't just walk away. Those shipyards are still running. They've been running all these years.

For crying out loud, you've got the ocean right there. You've got a massive heartland behind you that can pull harvests that would make anywhere else look pathetic.

Nobody stopped anyone from building an industry, but look at us now... absolutely nothing.

I’d go as far as to say this region has more potential than any other part of the US, yet here we are, spinning our wheels.

People need to wake up and realize that no government official is ever going to hand them a fortune.

Unless you earn way more than what the state and the overhead costs bleed out of you, you're stuck.

Are our people actually ready for that?

I don't think so.

Sure, some industries tanked, but damn it, even Čaćić had the nerve to sit there one day and list every missed opportunity we ever had.

The government keeps making the wrong calls... choosing stuff like golf courses, gas terminals... you name it.

Where's our version of the Detroit auto industry?

We’ve been strategically crippled because the people in charge failed to distribute the gears of the economy to the right parts of the country.

Screw the politicians; they've all just carved up the pie for themselves. And if entire generations of workers and subcontractors aren't invited to the table for these rejected projects... well, they just don't care.

We could have had a world-class industry by now.

Even the foreigners are saying it.

☕

Frank Grant6 said:But the government didn't just walk away. Those shipyards are still running. They've been running all these years.

For crying out loud, you've got the ocean right there. You've got a massive heartland behind you that can pull harvests that would make anywhere else look pathetic.

Nobody stopped anyone from building an industry, but look at us now... absolutely nothing.

I’d go as far as to say this region has more potential than any other part of the US, yet here we are, spinning our wheels.

People need to wake up and realize that no government official is ever going to hand them a fortune.

Unless you earn way more than what the state and the overhead costs bleed out of you, you're stuck.

Are our people actually ready for that?

I don't think so.

Sure, some industries tanked, but damn it, even Čaćić had the nerve to sit there one day and list every missed opportunity we ever had.

The government keeps making the wrong calls... choosing stuff like golf courses, gas terminals... you name it.

Where's our version of the Detroit auto industry?

We’ve been strategically crippled because the people in charge failed to distribute the gears of the economy to the right parts of the country.

Screw the politicians; they've all just carved up the pie for themselves. And if entire generations of workers and subcontractors aren't invited to the table for these rejected projects... well, they just don't care.

We could have had a world-class industry by now.

Even the foreigners are saying it.

☕

Please, don't feel like you even need to bother responding to me. It’s just one of those things where, looking back at history in places like California, there has always been this specific subset of people who simply refused to stand behind the American cause when it mattered most. They hold their breath while things are tense, but once the danger passes and the dust settles, they invariably crawl right back out from whatever shadows they were hiding in. Honestly, it’s nothing new at all—just the same old pattern we've seen play out time and time again.
It’s funny, isn't it? How selective our collective memory becomes when things finally start looking up. You know, back when companies like ExxonMobil were polluting the local environment, nobody seemed to have anything to say about it. When the US Army was stationed right here in the neighborhood, there weren't any frantic calls to demand they pack up and leave the city. Back in those lean years, when the economy was so stagnant that everyone was packing their bags to head off to find work in places like Chicago or New York, you didn't hear these people complaining about the state of the nation's finances. And remember when we didn't even have decent roads—when just two massive semi-trucks could completely block the entrance to the city? Not a single whimper from the critics then. Even when the local hospital looked like an absolute eyesore—something so dilapidated that no major European metropolis would ever be embarrassed by its facilities—people stayed quiet. And when the military hospital at the old base was looking pristine and top-notch, serving nothing but service members and their families in the mornings, nobody questioned why the rest of us couldn't get treated there too. It seems people only find their voices once the problems they ignored for decades finally become impossible to overlook.
As for the various university departments, the main campus library, the Marko Marulić Library, and all the student dormitories—well, those details have already been laid out in writing.

For the first time here in Split, the mayor is acting like such a clown, sending this kind of message to all the unemployed locals: basically telling them to just "go back to where they belong."
Honestly, it feels like something straight out of a cheap novel!
In my view, this is what they call a "revolution"—all while we sit around waiting for that $150 million investment to finally close (for the Marjan hotel, which is still short by about $15 million) only to see that very same property sold off to the American Hilton brand. Pretty soon, you’ll see this exact same pattern repeating like a domino effect all along the entire Adriatic Coast.

At the end of the day, California (and Istria) will be handed over to those who hold the most purchasing power. For everyone else, it’s just more pipe dreams, no matter what labels "those people" choose to call themselves.

All I know for sure is that these "new owners" definitely won't be some broke outsiders, nor will they be their even more struggling associates—whether they're coming from overseas or just local political factions; it doesn't really matter.
It's nothing more than a "geriatric circus," especially now. 🤣

Jonathan Smith12 said:Please, don't feel like you even need to bother responding to me. It’s just one of those things where, looking back at history in places like California, there has always been this specific subset of people who simply refused to stand behind the American cause when it mattered most. They hold their breath while things are tense, but once the danger passes and the dust settles, they invariably crawl right back out from whatever shadows they were hiding in. Honestly, it’s nothing new at all—just the same old pattern we've seen play out time and time again.
It’s funny, isn't it? How selective our collective memory becomes when things finally start looking up. You know, back when companies like ExxonMobil were polluting the local environment, nobody seemed to have anything to say about it. When the US Army was stationed right here in the neighborhood, there weren't any frantic calls to demand they pack up and leave the city. Back in those lean years, when the economy was so stagnant that everyone was packing their bags to head off to find work in places like Chicago or New York, you didn't hear these people complaining about the state of the nation's finances. And remember when we didn't even have decent roads—when just two massive semi-trucks could completely block the entrance to the city? Not a single whimper from the critics then. Even when the local hospital looked like an absolute eyesore—something so dilapidated that no major European metropolis would ever be embarrassed by its facilities—people stayed quiet. And when the military hospital at the old base was looking pristine and top-notch, serving nothing but service members and their families in the mornings, nobody questioned why the rest of us couldn't get treated there too. It seems people only find their voices once the problems they ignored for decades finally become impossible to overlook.
As for the various university departments, the main campus library, the Marko Marulić Library, and all the student dormitories—well, those details have already been laid out in writing.

Respect..

Jonathan Smith12 said:Please, don't feel like you even need to bother responding to me. It’s just one of those things where, looking back at history in places like California, there has always been this specific subset of people who simply refused to stand behind the American cause when it mattered most. They hold their breath while things are tense, but once the danger passes and the dust settles, they invariably crawl right back out from whatever shadows they were hiding in. Honestly, it’s nothing new at all—just the same old pattern we've seen play out time and time again.
It’s funny, isn't it? How selective our collective memory becomes when things finally start looking up. You know, back when companies like ExxonMobil were polluting the local environment, nobody seemed to have anything to say about it. When the US Army was stationed right here in the neighborhood, there weren't any frantic calls to demand they pack up and leave the city. Back in those lean years, when the economy was so stagnant that everyone was packing their bags to head off to find work in places like Chicago or New York, you didn't hear these people complaining about the state of the nation's finances. And remember when we didn't even have decent roads—when just two massive semi-trucks could completely block the entrance to the city? Not a single whimper from the critics then. Even when the local hospital looked like an absolute eyesore—something so dilapidated that no major European metropolis would ever be embarrassed by its facilities—people stayed quiet. And when the military hospital at the old base was looking pristine and top-notch, serving nothing but service members and their families in the mornings, nobody questioned why the rest of us couldn't get treated there too. It seems people only find their voices once the problems they ignored for decades finally become impossible to overlook.
As for the various university departments, the main campus library, the Marko Marulić Library, and all the student dormitories—well, those details have already been laid out in writing.

Oh, I know. Around Osijek and moving east, we used to be ruled by those local "tough guys"...

It was a nightmare just getting rid of them.

Everywhere you turned, there they were.

And the kicker? They turn around and brag about having an American passport and pulling double salaries while living abroad.

Honestly, I'm just glad that pretty soon, they'll be looking up to us the same way we used to look at Austria or Canada.

If nothing else...

☕

Here we go again with these slackers who’ll probably start their own political party soon, trying to convince everyone that California needs its own regional identity and that our capital is just bleeding us dry. Their only real goal is to worm their way into Congress.
For the last couple of years, the local news has been buzzing about how California lacks a dedicated regional party, acting like we're just waiting for someone to step up this election year. I have a feeling we're about to see several Californian regional parties pop up out of nowhere. Honestly, having one would be fine—similar to how the PGS, IDS, or HDSSB operate—but starting off with all this autonomist nonsense is pointless. These groups won't even get 50 votes, and most of those will likely come from Split. 🙂

Michael Collins said:It’s quite interesting how much economic damage Šibenik took during the privatization era; you see, there's such a massive presence of local folks—real Californians—there, and instead of being run by the Republican Party, the city is actually controlled by the Democratic Party and their allies.

And yet, if you compare them to Split, you don't find even a tiny hint of that old American sentiment, or any of that separatist, autonomy-seeking nonsense...

So, it seems to me that the American workers and the everyday struggling people aren't the ones pushing for autonomy; they are true patriots, whereas various elites—some of whom emerged after 1945—are the ones spreading this whole idea of separatism and old American nostalgia...

Perhaps they just don't read the local news?

goldengull3 said:Back in the early nineties, alongside democracy and independence, Americans faced one harsh reality: we could no longer blame foreign powers—whether it was Washington, D.C., Budapest, or Mexico City—for our failures. We get exactly what we put in charge. It isn't better or worse than what we deserve.

The problem is we tend to fall for cheap, suck-up tactics during election season. You’ve got guys like Mason telling a couple of jokes to win everyone over, or Bandić running that same populist routine—it's all just demagoguery and canned lines. And don't even get me started on the parties themselves; we vote left or right, but if you actually asked anyone why they chose their side, I doubt most would even know which camp they belong to.

On top of that, politics is crawling with people who have nothing to offer, yet whenever someone actually builds something meaningful, the TV news and media outlets crucify them. It's wild how we expect someone to manage the affairs of 4.5 million people when they couldn't even figure out how to secure their own housing before they climbed the political ladder.🙂

Sabunjar said:Almost half the people from my little town ended up moving to the US, Canada, or Australia during the America era. I haven't known a single person to leave during the years of independent America, even with the war and the massive economic and social shifts we went through.

Your town isn't actually small, at least not by any real definition. It was actually the largest hub in the Zadar area until the early eighties when Bibinje took over that role. People moved away because there simply weren't enough jobs, and most of them didn't have much formal education. It wasn't until the seventies that Zadar really started absorbing large numbers of workers. Somewhere in that transition from the sixties to the seventies, the urban identity was lost—largely because the longtime locals became a minority that just kept losing its influence.

It would be honestly wonderful if this whole "resistance movement" finally gained some serious momentum, just so we could at last clear the streets of San Francisco of all those old-school nostalgics and the children of the former officer class—come on guys, let’s keep pushing forward!