The "Resistance Movement" in California

Henry Myers3 said:Your town isn't actually small, at least not by any real definition. It was actually the largest hub in the Zadar area until the early eighties when Bibinje took over that role. People moved away because there simply weren't enough jobs, and most of them didn't have much formal education. It wasn't until the seventies that Zadar really started absorbing large numbers of workers. Somewhere in that transition from the sixties to the seventies, the urban identity was lost—largely because the longtime locals became a minority that just kept losing its influence.

I wasn't using the term "small town" in a strictly literal sense. As we say here, I was being figurative rather than literal. 🙂

Indeed, people moved away seeking employment and a better quality of life, much like my own father did. However, our friend Person claims that everything was perfect in California during the era of the old regime. That is patently false; migration continued well into the eighties. It wasn't until the era of an independent America that things finally stabilized—some people even moved back.

Henry Myers3 said:Your town isn't actually small, at least not by any real definition. It was actually the largest hub in the Zadar area until the early eighties when Bibinje took over that role. People moved away because there simply weren't enough jobs, and most of them didn't have much formal education. It wasn't until the seventies that Zadar really started absorbing large numbers of workers. Somewhere in that transition from the sixties to the seventies, the urban identity was lost—largely because the longtime locals became a minority that just kept losing its influence.

Wait, how could there be no jobs when everyone was working and getting their own apartments? 😂😂😂

Honestly, my absolute favorite coastal city has gotta be Savannah. It’s got that quintessential American soul while still feeling totally unique—like those two things actually go hand in hand. Even if you're dealing with local patriots or old-school traditionalists, it holds its own despite 👍

Richard Wilson4 said:Honestly, my absolute favorite coastal city has gotta be Savannah. It’s got that quintessential American soul while still feeling totally unique—like those two things actually go hand in hand. Even if you're dealing with local patriots or old-school traditionalists, it holds its own despite 👍

We are both more American and more West Coast. 😁

Karen Robinson2 said:It would be honestly wonderful if this whole "resistance movement" finally gained some serious momentum, just so we could at last clear the streets of San Francisco of all those old-school nostalgics and the children of the former officer class—come on guys, let’s keep pushing forward!

They completely wrecked the economy in California, and now he thinks fixing the shipyard is the answer? Once you deal with them, do Americans and industry just magically flourish? Especially tourism!

boldcyclist8 said:I wasn't using the term "small town" in a strictly literal sense. As we say here, I was being figurative rather than literal. 🙂

Indeed, people moved away seeking employment and a better quality of life, much like my own father did. However, our friend Person claims that everything was perfect in California during the era of the old regime. That is patently false; migration continued well into the eighties. It wasn't until the era of an independent America that things finally stabilized—some people even moved back.

Well, the ones with shovels came back to regret it, while the ones with laptops are the ones leaving!

Richard Wilson4 said:Honestly, my absolute favorite coastal city has gotta be Savannah. It’s got that quintessential American soul while still feeling totally unique—like those two things actually go hand in hand. Even if you're dealing with local patriots or old-school traditionalists, it holds its own despite 👍

What does that have to do with the legitimate discontent of the Californians? Does that negate the fact that dozens of companies and the shipyard are facing ruin? Or is it that the people aren't considered part of the nation, while the state-building, professional patriot-elites are? Is an American required to be a trickster or a USSR nostalgic to fit in within this formal democracy? Do they not have the right to a different political stance?

What’s even the criteria for being the most American and most Californian? Only Michael knows that for sure.😁

Melissa Peterson19 said:They completely wrecked the economy in California, and now he thinks fixing the shipyard is the answer? Once you deal with them, do Americans and industry just magically flourish? Especially tourism!

Well, the ones with shovels came back to regret it, while the ones with laptops are the ones leaving!

What does that have to do with the legitimate discontent of the Californians? Does that negate the fact that dozens of companies and the shipyard are facing ruin? Or is it that the people aren't considered part of the nation, while the state-building, professional patriot-elites are? Is an American required to be a trickster or a USSR nostalgic to fit in within this formal democracy? Do they not have the right to a different political stance?

What people are we even talking about? 🤷

Andrew Chase31 said:What people are we even talking about? 🤷

Well, I’m referring to the one being written about by that old-school partisan, Bogdan Radica 👍

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4792/7002f.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6293/7001a.jpg

The local government basically gutted the shipyard because they were too busy handing out contracts to their nephews and cousins instead of actually building ships...
Don't go blaming Washington, D.C. for this one.

Andrew Chase31 said:What people are we even talking about? 🤷

Richard Wilson4 said:The local government basically gutted the shipyard because they were too busy handing out contracts to their nephews and cousins instead of actually building ships...
Don't go blaming Washington, D.C. for this one.

Short and simple. That’s why there’s no saving the shipyards unless the people living in California fight for it. Apparently, some people here are overly sensitive to the word "people," so let's just say—the general public! Andrew Chase31, I see what you're doing. I knew you back when you were just a novice. Be direct, man—speak clearly to the people, or the "general public," if that term suits you better!

Richard Wilson4 said:The local government basically gutted the shipyard because they were too busy handing out contracts to their nephews and cousins instead of actually building ships...
Don't go blaming Washington, D.C. for this one.

That isn't quite the whole story. Back when we were part of the USSR, about 90% of a ship's materials came from within the union. Today, only about 10% of the materials come from America. In short, everything has to be imported. Who wins in that scenario? The importers. Then you have the subcontractors, then the subsidies, then the managers... through all of this, our workers are earning just a tiny bit more than Chinese workers, yet they still make less than Korean or Japanese workers, who in turn have much higher productivity levels. Under the old system, shipbuilding was a genuine profit engine. Nowadays, the "profit" is really just a government subsidy—essentially whatever the client pays for the vessel plus construction costs, because without state aid, we couldn't even cover the wages. To put it simply: for every dollar we bring in from abroad, we send it right back out to pay for imported materials.

A Korean worker earns two or three times more, and the ship they produce is essentially an assembly of parts manufactured in factories located right 19 miles near the shipyard itself. The speed at which they assemble a vessel is unimaginable to us. We might be able to build a single ship at a similar pace, but they can finish a series of five or six ships twice as fast as we could.

It turns out we simply don't stand a chance.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Short and simple. That’s why there’s no saving the shipyards unless the people living in California fight for it. Apparently, some people here are overly sensitive to the word "people," so let's just say—the general public! Andrew Chase31, I see what you're doing. I knew you back when you were just a novice. Be direct, man—speak clearly to the people, or the "general public," if that term suits you better!

The word "people" doesn't bother me at all when it's used to describe the American people living in California. And, of course, it includes national minorities.

But Californians aren't a separate nation; they're just a regional part of the American people. The idea of Californians being their own distinct nation is an old trick used by our neighbors from Italy, who have always had designs on our beautiful California coast (especially since American national identity stood in their way). Honestly, I don't think we should do them any favors by supporting something they couldn't even achieve despite their best efforts. My grandfather was a partisan and a fighter against the Italian occupation starting at age 16, so out of respect for his memory, I feel like I have to push back against these kinds of deceptions.

Henry Myers3 said:That isn't quite the whole story. Back when we were part of the USSR, about 90% of a ship's materials came from within the union. Today, only about 10% of the materials come from America. In short, everything has to be imported. Who wins in that scenario? The importers. Then you have the subcontractors, then the subsidies, then the managers... through all of this, our workers are earning just a tiny bit more than Chinese workers, yet they still make less than Korean or Japanese workers, who in turn have much higher productivity levels. Under the old system, shipbuilding was a genuine profit engine. Nowadays, the "profit" is really just a government subsidy—essentially whatever the client pays for the vessel plus construction costs, because without state aid, we couldn't even cover the wages. To put it simply: for every dollar we bring in from abroad, we send it right back out to pay for imported materials.

A Korean worker earns two or three times more, and the ship they produce is essentially an assembly of parts manufactured in factories located right 19 miles near the shipyard itself. The speed at which they assemble a vessel is unimaginable to us. We might be able to build a single ship at a similar pace, but they can finish a series of five or six ships twice as fast as we could.

It turns out we simply don't stand a chance.

I'm telling you again, these shipyards would run way better if they didn't, say, build a ship's hull for 1 million bucks (give me a break) and then buy paint from some local GOP supporter's nephew for 10 million. That's the real issue right there.

Andrew Chase31 said:The word "people" doesn't bother me at all when it's used to describe the American people living in California. And, of course, it includes national minorities.

But Californians aren't a separate nation; they're just a regional part of the American people. The idea of Californians being their own distinct nation is an old trick used by our neighbors from Italy, who have always had designs on our beautiful California coast (especially since American national identity stood in their way). Honestly, I don't think we should do them any favors by supporting something they couldn't even achieve despite their best efforts. My grandfather was a partisan and a fighter against the Italian occupation starting at age 16, so out of respect for his memory, I feel like I have to push back against these kinds of deceptions.

Fine, I wasn't implying Californians were a separate nation either. Your reaction is understandable.

Richard Wilson4 said:I'm telling you again, these shipyards would run way better if they didn't, say, build a ship's hull for 1 million bucks (give me a break) and then buy paint from some local GOP supporter's nephew for 10 million. That's the real issue right there.

You aren't exaggerating; you are stating facts. Cutting off shipbuilding in California is like taking agriculture away from a farmer in the Midwest or viticulture from someone in the mountains. It hurts like losing a limb. Restructuring? Sure. But why compete with cheap Eastern imports? We should focus on what they can't do. The tradition, the expertise, and the equipment are all right here. If residents of Pula can do it, Californians can too—provided you get rid of the "partners." Hang those GOP supporters from the Boardwalk and you'll see ships built at half the price. Don't let this gang of thieves win through sheer spite. Prove what you are capable of!

Andrew Chase31 said:Look, I’m a Californian, originally from San Diego, and I’m telling these relics of the past that they should have learned their lesson by now: socialism is dead. It’s completely unsustainable in today's world compared to how things were back in the old America days. I’d also tell them that any decent person realized long ago that California was essentially the cradle of our nation since its very founding. Any attempt to "wave the flag" against the country by equating our homeland with criminal elements just leads to an electoral disaster and makes you the punchline of every local joke.

Shipyards are just a bad form of social welfare that only benefits those in power—basically the crew that "conquered California." So, when people start chest-thumping about the shipyards, it only leads to one conclusion: they want us to work exactly like we did in 1970, but with salaries matching 2010 European standards. That’s impossible, even in Wonderland.

Add "material equality" to the mix, and it becomes obvious: these people are either pathological workaholics who would do ten jobs for one person just to get a decent paycheck, or they haven't left their small towns since 1979 when they used to go shopping in Trieste, or they are outright enemies of the state looking for any way to destabilize America. Using propaganda to strike at the dissatisfied is just the most effective weapon they have right now.

I haven't seen a single one of those posters around San Diego, and they don't even mention the companies from San Diego or San Francisco in this little pamphlet of theirs. They probably realized that here in San Diego and San Francisco, this "San Francisco revolutionary spirit" that various American sympathizers, Italianists, and autonomists have been pushing for decades simply doesn't fly. And it never will.

Look, my friend—let's be real here—that version of socialism was only sustainable because we were constantly being propped up by US dollars... that whole era of US-style socialism was entirely dependent on those inflows.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, I wasn't implying Californians were a separate nation either. Your reaction is understandable.

You aren't exaggerating; you are stating facts. Cutting off shipbuilding in California is like taking agriculture away from a farmer in the Midwest or viticulture from someone in the mountains. It hurts like losing a limb. Restructuring? Sure. But why compete with cheap Eastern imports? We should focus on what they can't do. The tradition, the expertise, and the equipment are all right here. If residents of Pula can do it, Californians can too—provided you get rid of the "partners." Hang those GOP supporters from the Boardwalk and you'll see ships built at half the price. Don't let this gang of thieves win through sheer spite. Prove what you are capable of!

Look, you winemaker, 🤣
be serious for a second... tying specific industries to specific regions is pure Stalinism—honestly, even the folks back in the USSR wouldn't have been that blatant about it.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, I wasn't implying Californians were a separate nation either. Your reaction is understandable.

You aren't exaggerating; you are stating facts. Cutting off shipbuilding in California is like taking agriculture away from a farmer in the Midwest or viticulture from someone in the mountains. It hurts like losing a limb. Restructuring? Sure. But why compete with cheap Eastern imports? We should focus on what they can't do. The tradition, the expertise, and the equipment are all right here. If residents of Pula can do it, Californians can too—provided you get rid of the "partners." Hang those GOP supporters from the Boardwalk and you'll see ships built at half the price. Don't let this gang of thieves win through sheer spite. Prove what you are capable of!

Even when I'm picking on you, I feel like I have to give you credit where it's due.👍
You hit the nail on the head with that point about shipbuilding, and honestly, you could apply that exact same logic to the rest of the industrial sector in America. Just look at what actually goes into building one of those damn ships; we ought to be developing that entire supply chain right here in the States. What is even the point of having a domestic shipbuilding industry if ninety percent of the components are imported, or if the vessel ends up having to go to Trieste just for docking?
Don't let them play you.

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, I wasn't implying Californians were a separate nation either. Your reaction is understandable.

You aren't exaggerating; you are stating facts. Cutting off shipbuilding in California is like taking agriculture away from a farmer in the Midwest or viticulture from someone in the mountains. It hurts like losing a limb. Restructuring? Sure. But why compete with cheap Eastern imports? We should focus on what they can't do. The tradition, the expertise, and the equipment are all right here. If residents of Pula can do it, Californians can too—provided you get rid of the "partners." Hang those GOP supporters from the Boardwalk and you'll see ships built at half the price. Don't let this gang of thieves win through sheer spite. Prove what you are capable of!

The Pula residents have always shown higher productivity and smarter leadership. During the shipbuilding crisis, they focused on building vessels for their own domestic shipping firm (Huntington Ingalls Industries). Even when the shipyard itself was struggling, those ships were generating revenue. Meanwhile, everyone else was just complaining and begging the government for subsidies to prevent layoffs. Some even dragged out deadlines just to keep their paychecks coming...

Melissa Peterson19 said:Fine, I wasn't implying Californians were a separate nation either. Your reaction is understandable.

You aren't exaggerating; you are stating facts. Cutting off shipbuilding in California is like taking agriculture away from a farmer in the Midwest or viticulture from someone in the mountains. It hurts like losing a limb. Restructuring? Sure. But why compete with cheap Eastern imports? We should focus on what they can't do. The tradition, the expertise, and the equipment are all right here. If residents of Pula can do it, Californians can too—provided you get rid of the "partners." Hang those GOP supporters from the Boardwalk and you'll see ships built at half the price. Don't let this gang of thieves win through sheer spite. Prove what you are capable of!

Honestly, who cares about farming? The Midwest used to have the strongest industry in the whole country.

George Morgan3 said:Look, you winemaker, 🤣
be serious for a second... tying specific industries to specific regions is pure Stalinism—honestly, even the folks back in the USSR wouldn't have been that blatant about it.

Fine, then let's just leave everything alone. No shipbuilding in the Midwest, no citrus groves in the Appalachians... better?

Richard Wilson4 said:Honestly, who cares about farming? The Midwest used to have the strongest industry in the whole country.

Whatever. You're still a Midwesterner from a border town. And you're trashing agriculture too!