All-day school schedules

shadowtiger0 said:Actually, quite the opposite.

The thing is, people in our field tend to complain way too much—and let's be real, we do get that legendary summer break and those holidays when the weather is actually decent. A lot of engineers, doctors, and other professionals with advanced degrees just don't get that luxury.

But the fact that so many other things are fundamentally broken here is a whole different conversation...
Where on earth did you get the idea of comparing us to the Netherlands? They’re one of the most developed nations on the planet...

We should be comparing ourselves to other Southern European countries, and unfortunately, the situation there is pretty much the same...

If we actually want things to improve, we have to measure ourselves against the best and make progress, step by step. To be blunt, the best times here are June and July before the brutal heat hits, or September once it breaks. Trying to take a vacation during a heatwave is less about relaxing and more about just trying to survive.

mellowskipper said:Maybe it would be a funny experiment if, just for one year, every single teacher in America gave every eighth grader a straight 4.0. Then everyone gets that precious perfect score they're all chasing.
And then what?

Then they’d just implement entrance exams for the popular high schools, which plenty of them already do. Everyone stays happy and satisfied.
Kids wouldn't be stressing over grades during elementary school anymore.

Honestly, I’m just sitting here wondering who on earth is actually going to volunteer to be a homeroom teacher at this experimental school 😂
The thing is, they aren't counting homeroom duties toward your standard teaching hours anymore—so instead of having a full schedule, you just get a tiny 2.5% bump on your total salary, and it’s all strictly voluntary.
What's the catch? Well, my friends, right now being a homeroom teacher is basically the equivalent of two extra teaching periods—one hour for advisory and one for general info, plus another two hours of pure administrative chaos. If you have a particularly difficult class, you're looking at at least six hours a week, if not eight, just dealing with the sheer volume of paperwork. We're talking everything from playing judge and jury for classroom discipline to printing stuff out on your own paper (because why not?), collecting permission slips, filling out endless spreadsheets because some bureaucrat decided they needed them, tracking who's eating breakfast in the cafeteria, chasing down excuse notes, and even calling NASA or the local police when things go sideways.
Basically, under the current system, it pays about 10% of your salary, which helps people hit their full-time requirements—but even then, everyone feels totally burnt out and underpaid for the amount of work involved. And now they want to "increase" the compensation to... 2.5%? Yeah, right.
No sane person is going to sign up for that kind of workload in specialized subjects, and according to the A2 programs, unless you're teaching advanced English or math, these roles aren't even mandatory for teachers.

shadowtiger0 said:I cook too; my wife doesn't always have the time. Not that it’s an issue for me.

Generally speaking, nothing bothers me—except for rudeness and a lack of respect. That stuff gets handled pretty easily in a face-to-face conversation. Especially when you weigh 220 pounds. 😁

I mostly learned from my grandfather; my dad worked a lot. I know my way around a kitchen and nothing is too difficult.

And shouldn't all of this be part of "home economics" or whatever that subject is called nowadays?

What kind of nonsense is "YouTube"? I belong to that generation of men who served in the military—the ones who look out for and protect their families.

I'd say you're the star of the locker room, maybe even a siren. 😁

shadowtiger0 said:

I suppose I should probably mention that I finally made it to see the symphony performance last night—and honestly, after all the buildup, I wasn't entirely sure if I was in for a masterpiece or just a very expensive nap. It was one of those high-brow evenings where you feel slightly underdressed just by breathing the air in the concert hall. But, despite my usual skepticism about these things, the orchestra actually delivered. There’s something about the way a full ensemble hits those swelling crescendos that makes you forget, just for a second, how much you paid for the ticket. It was grand, it was loud, and it was—dare I say—actually quite moving. Not that I'd admit that to anyone who prefers blasting pop music in their car, but there was definitely a moment where the room went completely silent, and even my cynical brain couldn't find anything to complain about. kaže:
Look, it’s been happening in the United Kingdom for a few years now—this massive exodus of teachers because of those "wonderful" working conditions. People are literally packing up and moving to Thailand to teach English, just so they can actually afford to live. It turns out you can have a decent life with a much lower cost of living over there than what you're dealing with back home in the UK.

I’m a tenured professor—currently working in an elementary school—and honestly, I feel like I’ve been blindsided by a constant stream of absolute nonsense ever since I entered the education field. It is genuinely depressing to watch how idiotic policies can just completely strip away the motivation and passion of people who actually chose this profession because they cared. If you teach one of the core subjects—one of the big three—you are absolutely buried in work. And that’s not even counting the physical presence required on campus. Take a foreign language teacher, for example; their required hours alone can hit 23 per week, which is one of the highest loads out there. Then, you go home and drag yourself through a mountain of 130 exams, the same amount of essays, and an endless pile of other written assessments... not to mention all the extra grading. All of this is done on top of the actual classroom time, usually while trying to find a single quiet corner at the school to get anything done—which, let's be real, doesn't exist. And don't even get me started on the nightmare of being a homeroom teacher. The sheer amount of extra labor expected from people for what amounts to a measly two hours of official credit is a special kind of madness that I’d rather not even dive into.

Edit: Honestly, if you’re actually feeling overwhelmed by your workload—I mean, really, truly burnt out—I honestly wouldn't even know how to respond to that. It's pretty obvious you aren't exactly breaking a sweat over there.

Look, you’re clearly a fellow linguistics nerd—and honestly, my heart goes out to you. It’s tough out here. You put in all this grueling work, pouring your soul into the nuances of language, only for it to go completely unnoticed. Most people don't give a damn about the mechanics behind how we communicate; they’d much rather spend their energy obsessing over the scenery or some random sunset than the actual structure of a sentence. It’s a thankless grind, really.

Look, I mentioned the United Kingdom because I actually know how things work over there—and trust me, burnout isn't just a possibility for my colleagues in the UK, it’s practically a standard job requirement at this point. My whole point was that most of them would probably swallow a hell of a lot more misery if they could just land an above-average salary. And honestly? We actually have that here—I mean, I personally have coworkers pulling in much more than that... $333 I get a little extra bump in my paycheck from the principal because of things like mentoring and years of seniority—it all adds up eventually, you know how it goes. 😉 ).

You claim I don't work hard enough—and honestly, you're not wrong. But look, I absolutely adore working with kids, and I’m constantly coming up with new ways to weave kinesiology and movement patterns into games; from what I can see, they’re having a blast. My days are split between working at both an elementary school and a high school. You also seem to be forgetting that I'm a man—and let's be real, most "normal" guys (and I am definitely not talking about those metrosexual types) would probably feel the same way. 😁 The kind of guys who can't just grab an axe and split a cord of firewood for the winter... honestly, the physical part of the job is easy. It’s all about testosterone, I guess.
Look, I’m not even joking around here—it’s just something I’ve started noticing by watching my wife. It becomes incredibly obvious that we men have it way easier when it comes to tackling certain things, simply because we don't deal with those massive, sweeping fluctuations in anabolic hormones—you know, the stuff that actually drives your strength and your sheer willpower. I realized this mostly because my own system got absolutely wrecked by post-COVID fatigue; back when I was going through it, I remember thinking, "Man, this is rough," but now that I've had some distance, I look at what women go through and realize I finally get it.

Secondly, when I see some people around here boasting over 10,000 posts, I can't help but wonder—what kind of grueling, high-stakes career must they have to find the time to rack up that many comments on a forum like this? It’s almost impressive, in a tragic sort of way. Clearly, they have an abundance of free time to dedicate to... well, let's call it "intellectual stimulation"—though we all know this place is mostly just a digital playground for nonsense. Seriously though, what kind of "hard work" are we actually talking about here? What are we even doing? 👎

Either you’re not hanging out with much educated company, or you’re just choosing to look the other way—but the reality is that most people with a four-year degree are grinding away for peanuts all day, dragging themselves home around 5:00 PM only to finish their actual work at the kitchen table. It’s a harsh truth. I’ve got an engineering degree myself, so I’ve been in those trenches—believe me, I know what it’s like pulling 10 or 12-hour shifts for basically the same pay you'd get with just a high school diploma. And unlike some sectors, there aren't any unions looking out for you. But, honestly, that’s not really the point here, so I won't go down that rabbit hole—I already know from experience that teachers don't really view things through that same lens.

Look, let’s be real here—for those of you in the room who are actually teachers or hold degrees in something like sociology: please, spare us the "I'll just quit and find a career in the private sector" act. Don't pull that nonsense. We all know the truth—both you and I—is that we aren't exactly in high demand out there in the corporate world. I could probably land a job at a Kroger or a Walmart tomorrow, and that's about it. If you're really feeling too dignified for the grind, then honestly, just step aside. Hand your desks over to the younger teachers or the fresh sociology grads—there are plenty of them sitting around waiting for a break through the unemployment office.
It’s a different ballgame compared to being a special ed specialist or a math teacher.

Those of us who studied subjects with actual utility in the workforce—you know, the scientists, the linguists, the social scientists—we actually put those skills to use out in the real world.

Unfortunately, there is money available for this project—I know this from firsthand experience—both for salaries and general overhead. Why am I saying "unfortunately"? Because I’m a parent, and I love my kids. By nature, I’m an active, high-energy person; I want to be outside playing with my children, riding bikes, hitting the weights, or just hanging at the park. If my kids are stuck in school until 5:00 PM, that becomes impossible. And frankly, I hate it.

It also feels pretty stupid to compare ourselves to Finland. We aren't nearly as developed as they are, nor do we share their mindset—we’re Southerners through and through, and we are fundamentally different from them.

Again, the current work system is just broken. What is one teacher supposed to accomplish in a classroom of twenty kids when three are on individualized programs, two are gifted, and you’ve got a few ADHD students thrown in there? Nothing. It’s impossible. These are the systemic issues that need fixing. Right now, the situation is failing both the gifted kids and the ones who are struggling. Realistically, it's unsustainable.

That’s why I admitted earlier that I’m no genius and that some kind of change is definitely overdue. Whether *this* is the right change? I have no clue.

P.S.

I received a couple of messages last night from a male colleague (probably, I can't be quite sure 😁) so I’ll just say it here publicly: stop running your mouth on the forums. And he should remember that social science majors are the tough, resilient ones that nobody messes with in school. 😒

A PE teacher? If that's actually what you do, please don't speak for the rest of us.

It’s pretty obvious why you aren't putting in the effort; you aren't grading a single exam, reviewing any homework, or even bothering to design a single lesson plan to accommodate different learning needs.

If you really are an American physical education instructor, you should feel a bit embarrassed writing something like this.

Bryan Wells11 said:It’s obvious you weren't anyone's homeroom teacher. I see plenty of people, from the Social Democratic Party crowd (medical professionals) to those with advanced degrees, who definitely get more than their allotted vacation time during the summer. You're just getting hung up on that pathetic cliché about how we have "so many months off." Our collective break starts roughly in the second half of July and ends around August 20th. What, is that too much vacation?

Spot on, linguist. A perpetual homeroom teacher, on top of that. Competition coach and everything else required. It isn't hard work, but there is certainly plenty of it. Look—where I found the balance between what I put in (an English degree) and the compensation in the form of a peanuts salary (I honestly don't know where you see this pay as anything extra, colleague) is that I have a bit more free time. I use that free time to work another job in my field and to be with my family. If I am deprived of that time (which cannot be replaced by anything, least of all these percentages meant to pull the wool over our eyes), a huge argument for staying in education disappears. Some people love to scramble for crumbs from an GOP-affiliated table because, apparently, they value themselves that little; I say no thanks. They steal billions, and I'm supposed to say thank you? Oh, thank you, great leaders, for a 2.5% stipend for being a homeroom teacher? I'll leave that to the sycophants, the weaklings, and the spineless.

Second, 90% of my circle of friends and acquaintances are professionals with advanced degrees, and I have no idea where you're getting these losers who come home late and bring all their work with them, earning as much as teachers? It varies—sometimes more, sometimes less depending on the company, working for various agencies and boards, shuffling papers, and getting things done—but miraculously, many people with significantly less responsibility earn as much as or more than us; some even less educated than I am have surpassed me. Those who actually arrive home late and carry work home earn significantly more, if not double. What are you talking about? I would toil away at a school twice as long if I were paid twice as much.

This talk about men and women feels a bit shallow and primitive to me, so I won't bother addressing that part. As if you all discovered after COVID what it's like for us while we're menstruating and how it affects our work competencies? Good grief. 😵

No need for formalities here. We're on a forum.

Linguists work hard, especially with living languages like English and Italian. And it is a damn monotonous job because if you aren't in a prep school where everyone is actually speaking the language (in my school, we all spoke English with the professor), it's just "I am—you are" all day long. It's exhausting. Not sarcasm.

I am a homeroom teacher.

Male vs. female—there are massive differences. You know it, and I know it. We kinesiology majors learn about this stuff all the time...
I'm not being primitive. I'm just a normal dad whom my kids love, and my students love too.

As for men being pushovers today who are afraid of their own shadows—that's their problem. My wife and I are equals in everything except energy levels. I'm a high-energy tank, and that's just how it is.

P.S. I also work after hours. Mainly because I'm lucky enough to be in education and can afford to.

When I worked in the private sector, I didn't even have the drive or the energy (and I'm a former athlete).

jadetinker85 said:If we actually want things to improve, we have to measure ourselves against the best and make progress, step by step. To be blunt, the best times here are June and July before the brutal heat hits, or September once it breaks. Trying to take a vacation during a heatwave is less about relaxing and more about just trying to survive.

Fair point. When I was younger, summer was the best part of the year, but man, those days are gone.

Nowadays, having some downtime right before or right after the summer madness is the way to go.

Susan James said:Right, because if a parent works a four-day week, they should have Friday entirely to themselves while the kid sits in school 🙂...so they can hit the spa, the pool, or grab a coffee....

And what about parents who work afternoon shifts? With full-day schooling, there'll be an even higher demand for afternoon coverage, which makes it nearly impossible for certain professionals to be parents to school-aged kids—think speech therapists, coaches, music teachers, artists, and so on.
Retail workers at Target or Walmart will barely see their kids once every two weeks outside of the busy seasons and Sundays.
Nurses will only see them every other week, too—not to mention they often work Sundays anyway.
And so on.
All things considered, it might be easier for them not to have kids at all.

Personally, I have nothing against these types of programs existing as private options that parents pay for, even if it means driving kids across town instead of just down the street.
But as long as public elementary schools are assigned by neighborhood, and the quality of the "good" districts depends on the staff and student makeup, you can't legally force parents into a corner. If they want a specific language or sport that their local district doesn't offer, they shouldn't be forced to drive elsewhere. At least now, you aren't mandated to take a second language (and some schools don't even offer certain sports anyway).

As for after-school care, it's always been voluntary. In some places, it's organized beautifully; in others, it's a total disaster. Some kids desperately need it, while others don't need it at all.
From what I've seen, it's unnecessary for third graders—maybe even a bit counterproductive—and for fourth grade, it could get even worse. Keeping kids in that kind of structured environment from fifth through eighth grade feels like a crime.
I realize some parents love the convenience of having their kids "taken care of," and they'd love for everything to happen right at school. But if we can't manage to handle everything within the school system during first and second grade, how can we expect it to work later on when the academic gaps become much wider? Why wasn't the focus on improving the quality of the early grades when parents were most desperate for childcare?

That's basically it: children will eventually become hostages of the ruling class.

Jose Wells3 said:The system always finds ways to help low-income families. Working in an impoverished area, I can tell you firsthand that nobody gets left behind; we try everything to give these kids a chance. We also work much more closely with parents, who often find themselves in poverty due to alcoholism, lack of education, or other factors that aren't always about unfairness, but rather a refusal to put in the work to change.

And now these kids stay in extra tutoring sessions until they're 14 or 15. The results? Well, they are what they are. At home, they have people telling them school doesn't matter because they won't need it anyway. They can't see their own living conditions clearly because they blame "the system" instead of looking at how they're sabotaging themselves.

I was a poor kid too, raised in a household of Worker's FC supporters and Social Democratic Party voters. No one could help me back then. I had to educate my way out of poverty. If I had been stuck in an all-day school schedule, I would have lost it—even with the abuse I dealt with at home. That’s why I threw myself into endless activities, picking my own path and choosing people I actually wanted to be around, rather than being trapped with the same crowd every day.

If someone tried to shove me into a standard high school classroom from age eight to fifteen, I’d probably lose my mind. I barely survived that schedule myself. I was constantly raising my hand because I couldn't stand listening to those idiots or hanging out with the popular cliques all damn day.

In one of my classes right now, I have four kids who are absolutely miserable because of the social dynamic. And there is nothing you can do. These kids are afraid to speak up in front of their peers because they hold different views. You can try to protect them, set an example, or crush the bullies, but eventually, they have to leave that school and go back into their own environment. And you won't be there. It’s hard for them now; imagine if they were stuck in an institution longer. They’ll lose that precious time when they should be free to be themselves—to retreat to their own little corner, hop on a call with like-minded friends, lie in a room, listen to music, read in peace, or practice an instrument to get better. Then there's my group of kids who actually love volunteering. Every single day they're at the community center, playing sports, finding themselves.

Did any of you ever play an instrument? Were you actually good? Did you compete? I was. I honestly don't know how I would have integrated that into this kind of rigid education. Where would I have tucked myself away as a child, or a teenager? Forgive me, but if I had been... well, busy with my private life...

And are you even aware of the benefits of boredom? Of having zero pressure?

Honestly, we might as well just keep clinging to having the lowest hourly wages in Europe and then act shocked when foreign investment tells us we desperately need to change things.
It’s almost like we’re living in some sort of educational utopia right now.

Since everyone is busy philosophizing, maybe try reading the actual documents with the understanding that every central proposal is really just a framework meant to be adapted to real-world conditions.
Regarding that 8 to 3 schedule—it’s just not physically or mentally feasible. Take elementary school, for instance; a teacher isn't stuck in one classroom from 8 to 3. You’ve got foreign languages, PE, computer lab, and religious studies or electives—all squeezed into that window.
Then there's the kids' side of things—breaks, extracurriculars, regrouping, socializing. Sure, you could run a school from 8 to 10:30, much like what my kids did in those first four grades. But back then, I was constantly paying babysitters.

Bryan Wells11 said:It’s obvious you weren't anyone's homeroom teacher. I see plenty of people, from the Social Democratic Party crowd (medical professionals) to those with advanced degrees, who definitely get more than their allotted vacation time during the summer. You're just getting hung up on that pathetic cliché about how we have "so many months off." Our collective break starts roughly in the second half of July and ends around August 20th. What, is that too much vacation?

Spot on, linguist. A perpetual homeroom teacher, on top of that. Competition coach and everything else required. It isn't hard work, but there is certainly plenty of it. Look—where I found the balance between what I put in (an English degree) and the compensation in the form of a peanuts salary (I honestly don't know where you see this pay as anything extra, colleague) is that I have a bit more free time. I use that free time to work another job in my field and to be with my family. If I am deprived of that time (which cannot be replaced by anything, least of all these percentages meant to pull the wool over our eyes), a huge argument for staying in education disappears. Some people love to scramble for crumbs from an GOP-affiliated table because, apparently, they value themselves that little; I say no thanks. They steal billions, and I'm supposed to say thank you? Oh, thank you, great leaders, for a 2.5% stipend for being a homeroom teacher? I'll leave that to the sycophants, the weaklings, and the spineless.

Second, 90% of my circle of friends and acquaintances are professionals with advanced degrees, and I have no idea where you're getting these losers who come home late and bring all their work with them, earning as much as teachers? It varies—sometimes more, sometimes less depending on the company, working for various agencies and boards, shuffling papers, and getting things done—but miraculously, many people with significantly less responsibility earn as much as or more than us; some even less educated than I am have surpassed me. Those who actually arrive home late and carry work home earn significantly more, if not double. What are you talking about? I would toil away at a school twice as long if I were paid twice as much.

This talk about men and women feels a bit shallow and primitive to me, so I won't bother addressing that part. As if you all discovered after COVID what it's like for us while we're menstruating and how it affects our work competencies? Good grief. 😵

😂

jadetinker85 said:I'd say you're the star of the locker room, maybe even a siren. 😁

And you want to know why?

It's because everyone else has just settled into mediocrity and decided they're perfectly fine with it.

Look, I’m nothing special. I spent years grinding away at training, trying to build a serious career, and honestly? It didn't pan out. So, I'm not some outlier. School was always a breeze for me—I come from a family where things just click, so it’s clearly just genetics at work.

But at the end of the day—and this is my mantra—I actually love what I do, the pay is decent, and I absolutely adore my kids (though, admittedly, I didn't truly grasp that until I finally held my own after they were born). Plus, most of us guys are pretty high-energy and live for sports. And getting paid to do all that?

You won't find a better deal than this.

wanderingbadger44 said:A PE teacher? If that's actually what you do, please don't speak for the rest of us.

It’s pretty obvious why you aren't putting in the effort; you aren't grading a single exam, reviewing any homework, or even bothering to design a single lesson plan to accommodate different learning needs.

If you really are an American physical education instructor, you should feel a bit embarrassed writing something like this.

I’ve also spent some time teaching science classes—I actually hold an engineering degree from a technical college, so I know my way around a lab.

That wasn’t even my main issue—it was just that, well, it wasn't me.

jadetinker85 said:Then they’d just implement entrance exams for the popular high schools, which plenty of them already do. Everyone stays happy and satisfied.
Kids wouldn't be stressing over grades during elementary school anymore.

It's funny how little it takes to "solve" a massive issue...

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, I’m just sitting here wondering who on earth is actually going to volunteer to be a homeroom teacher at this experimental school 😂
The thing is, they aren't counting homeroom duties toward your standard teaching hours anymore—so instead of having a full schedule, you just get a tiny 2.5% bump on your total salary, and it’s all strictly voluntary.
What's the catch? Well, my friends, right now being a homeroom teacher is basically the equivalent of two extra teaching periods—one hour for advisory and one for general info, plus another two hours of pure administrative chaos. If you have a particularly difficult class, you're looking at at least six hours a week, if not eight, just dealing with the sheer volume of paperwork. We're talking everything from playing judge and jury for classroom discipline to printing stuff out on your own paper (because why not?), collecting permission slips, filling out endless spreadsheets because some bureaucrat decided they needed them, tracking who's eating breakfast in the cafeteria, chasing down excuse notes, and even calling NASA or the local police when things go sideways.
Basically, under the current system, it pays about 10% of your salary, which helps people hit their full-time requirements—but even then, everyone feels totally burnt out and underpaid for the amount of work involved. And now they want to "increase" the compensation to... 2.5%? Yeah, right.
No sane person is going to sign up for that kind of workload in specialized subjects, and according to the A2 programs, unless you're teaching advanced English or math, these roles aren't even mandatory for teachers.

I assume the principal will just appoint whoever they want to be the homeroom teacher.
It's the same way it works here—when a supervisor issues an order, particularly if it's in writing, there really isn't much room for negotiation.

Paul Davis2 said:Honestly, we might as well just keep clinging to having the lowest hourly wages in Europe and then act shocked when foreign investment tells us we desperately need to change things.
It’s almost like we’re living in some sort of educational utopia right now.

Since everyone is busy philosophizing, maybe try reading the actual documents with the understanding that every central proposal is really just a framework meant to be adapted to real-world conditions.
Regarding that 8 to 3 schedule—it’s just not physically or mentally feasible. Take elementary school, for instance; a teacher isn't stuck in one classroom from 8 to 3. You’ve got foreign languages, PE, computer lab, and religious studies or electives—all squeezed into that window.
Then there's the kids' side of things—breaks, extracurriculars, regrouping, socializing. Sure, you could run a school from 8 to 10:30, much like what my kids did in those first four grades. But back then, I was constantly paying babysitters.

That same Europe, especially Northern Europe, has been graciously welcoming our workers for decades—everyone from ITech professionals and doctors to plumbers... it’s funny how they’re now offering us huge amounts of money to basically dumb down our own children so that neither we nor they have enough workers left.

What I really want to know is how, despite such short school hours, our kids manage to achieve top-tier results at international Olympiads. How is it that they enroll in and graduate from universities across Europe, and then, if they decide to move abroad, receive job offers that include not just great salaries, but often paid housing and language training for the whole family? How does that happen? Who was responsible for educating all those people?

Susan James said:That same Europe, especially Northern Europe, has been graciously welcoming our workers for decades—everyone from ITech professionals and doctors to plumbers... it’s funny how they’re now offering us huge amounts of money to basically dumb down our own children so that neither we nor they have enough workers left.

What I really want to know is how, despite such short school hours, our kids manage to achieve top-tier results at international Olympiads. How is it that they enroll in and graduate from universities across Europe, and then, if they decide to move abroad, receive job offers that include not just great salaries, but often paid housing and language training for the whole family? How does that happen? Who was responsible for educating all those people?

Fair question.

shadowtiger0 said:No need for formalities here. We're on a forum.

Linguists work hard, especially with living languages like English and Italian. And it is a damn monotonous job because if you aren't in a prep school where everyone is actually speaking the language (in my school, we all spoke English with the professor), it's just "I am—you are" all day long. It's exhausting. Not sarcasm.

I am a homeroom teacher.

Male vs. female—there are massive differences. You know it, and I know it. We kinesiology majors learn about this stuff all the time...
I'm not being primitive. I'm just a normal dad whom my kids love, and my students love too.

As for men being pushovers today who are afraid of their own shadows—that's their problem. My wife and I are equals in everything except energy levels. I'm a high-energy tank, and that's just how it is.

P.S. I also work after hours. Mainly because I'm lucky enough to be in education and can afford to.

When I worked in the private sector, I didn't even have the drive or the energy (and I'm a former athlete).

Fine, let's use first names then. You certainly seem to love yourself. Very, very much.
I'm also a normal mom whom both my kids and students love, right? I just don't see that as a valid argument in a debate. Besides, that’s just a subjective impression based on how narcissistic a person happens to be.
I still have questions regarding these comparisons between men and women; what exactly is the point? Which "pushovers" are you talking about who are afraid of their shadows? You should probably write from your own experience, because it's unclear what the poet is trying to say here.
And yes, physical education is incomparable to, say, language studies, but it never occurred to me to judge others or try to divide us based on how complex our jobs are, though I see some people really enjoy doing exactly that.

Edit: Ah, I missed your condescending lecturing style, reminiscent of elementary school "I am - You are" lessons (you even misspelled the most basic foundation taught to first graders); but hey, if you're an "energy tank," everyone loves you, you're hilarious, and they're all lining up to meet you. You've once again proven you have absolutely no clue how much language proficiency we instill in children by the 8th grade, allowing them to enter top-tier high schools with pride, knowing they'll excel in English, making our population's language skills enviable compared to many other countries. But sure, "I am, You are," right?

Buddy, are you actually aware of what you’re typing here? Do you realize how condescending you're being to everyone else?

I have a colleague who would never dream of saying something like this, but he has the track record to prove it. We're talking about actual grit—working tirelessly with kids, running countless after-school programs, coaching competitions, managing projects, and handling homeroom duties.

I respect him deeply; honestly, he’s the gold standard for what a teacher should be in our school.

Most of you just blow smoke and then drive these kids crazy—kids for whom soccer is the absolute last thing on their minds. You can't even point them toward other sports they might actually enjoy. Your top-tier climbers are essentially being bullied out of class because everything revolves around soccer. Kids with gymnastics potential are wasting away in your programs, and girls aren't getting any encouragement to stay active at all. To you, Pilates is somehow "soft" or "for wimps"... I've heard enough of those old-school, regressive jokes.

For what it's worth, I co-teach my classes, and I actively participate in professional development workshops for extracurricular physical education instructors. Don't even try to lie and claim we're all on the same level. We aren't. At least 90 percent of you aren't. Meanwhile, 90 percent of us are actually juggling extra responsibilities, lesson planning, grading, and prepping for state exams—and no, we don't all have perfect evaluations.

jadetinker85 said:Fair question.

That’s kind of like saying, "How do we have so many elite athletes? Well, someone had to create them."

Nah.

Anyone who has actually spent time inside the gears of an athletic program knows it’s basically just the work of obsessive "maniacs" and their parents—driven, slightly unhinged people. And sure, genetics play a part. Especially that specific American athletic build.

The system itself isn't doing all the heavy lifting here. As for our Olympians? We've got plenty of those.

Paul Davis2 said:Honestly, we might as well just keep clinging to having the lowest hourly wages in Europe and then act shocked when foreign investment tells us we desperately need to change things.
It’s almost like we’re living in some sort of educational utopia right now.

Since everyone is busy philosophizing, maybe try reading the actual documents with the understanding that every central proposal is really just a framework meant to be adapted to real-world conditions.
Regarding that 8 to 3 schedule—it’s just not physically or mentally feasible. Take elementary school, for instance; a teacher isn't stuck in one classroom from 8 to 3. You’ve got foreign languages, PE, computer lab, and religious studies or electives—all squeezed into that window.
Then there's the kids' side of things—breaks, extracurriculars, regrouping, socializing. Sure, you could run a school from 8 to 10:30, much like what my kids did in those first four grades. But back then, I was constantly paying babysitters.

I'm reading through the document.
The document basically implies that—minus two hours of PE, two of computer lab, two of foreign language, and two of religion—one single elementary teacher will have to handle EVERYTHING else. That includes playground duty during breaks, planning activities, and keeping a constant eye on everyone during social time because heaven forbid something happens and someone screams, "Whereeeee is the teacherrrrrr?!"

mellowskipper said:It's funny how little it takes to "solve" a massive issue...

I assume the principal will just appoint whoever they want to be the homeroom teacher.
It's the same way it works here—when a supervisor issues an order, particularly if it's in writing, there really isn't much room for negotiation.

Well, that’s how it’s been until now. But, if the paperwork says it’s voluntary—how can they force me? You can legally turn down voluntary assignments, even if they hand them to you in writing.
A few years ago, a boss gave a colleague a written order to do remote teaching from home for a student with pretty intense needs. She just calmly sent back a written response saying she refused, which she had every right to do since she works at two different schools and can't be forced to work extra hours beyond her contract without her consent. She just said, "No thanks." :P
It says right here in black and white that being a homeroom teacher is voluntary. You just point to that specific section and tell them you don't consent to the extra workload.

Bryan Wells11 said:Fine, let's use first names then. You certainly seem to love yourself. Very, very much.
I'm also a normal mom whom both my kids and students love, right? I just don't see that as a valid argument in a debate. Besides, that’s just a subjective impression based on how narcissistic a person happens to be.
I still have questions regarding these comparisons between men and women; what exactly is the point? Which "pushovers" are you talking about who are afraid of their shadows? You should probably write from your own experience, because it's unclear what the poet is trying to say here.
And yes, physical education is incomparable to, say, language studies, but it never occurred to me to judge others or try to divide us based on how complex our jobs are, though I see some people really enjoy doing exactly that.

Edit: Ah, I missed your condescending lecturing style, reminiscent of elementary school "I am - You are" lessons (you even misspelled the most basic foundation taught to first graders); but hey, if you're an "energy tank," everyone loves you, you're hilarious, and they're all lining up to meet you. You've once again proven you have absolutely no clue how much language proficiency we instill in children by the 8th grade, allowing them to enter top-tier high schools with pride, knowing they'll excel in English, making our population's language skills enviable compared to many other countries. But sure, "I am, You are," right?

It's basic biology, fellow middle school teacher. It's the difference between men and women—energy. That's what I was getting at. For us, handling the heavy lifting comes a bit easier.

Energy stems from anabolic hormones. Honestly, do you really want me to dive into something that most seventh graders probably already know?

Pushovers? Fine, here's an example. A colleague of mine had someone block her car in (she couldn't get home), so she asked a male colleague from her department to go tell the guy to move his car. He literally responded with: "Not my problem, won't get involved."

So, I step in and handle it nicely myself.

Of course the work of a linguist and a PE teacher isn't comparable. Just like a surgeon should be making more than a physiatrist (which they aren't, at least not at the base level), natural scientists and language teachers ought to have higher salaries than the rest of us (again, at least the base pay). See? I'm just full of love.