All-day school schedules

ambereagle88 said:I can't quite wrap my head around how these extracurricular activities are actually supposed to work. From what I gather, the school might just sign a contract with an outside organization to run their own programs on campus. So, if they strike a deal with a local basketball club or a chess academy, that’s what you get at the school. But what about kids enrolled in music school? They’d be stuck taking classes exclusively in the late afternoon or even evening. What is the actual plan for the music and dance academies, which also fall under the Department of Education? How are they expected to schedule lessons for everyone strictly during after-school hours? Kids would practically have to quit music altogether because the school only offers tiny little ensembles, and by the time they finish, there's no time left to make it to their actual music lessons and still find time to practice.

As for those comments suggesting "we wouldn't be doing this if Europe didn't recommend it," I honestly can't help but laugh. Over the last thirty years, we've implemented all sorts of systems just because someone "in Europe" thought it was a good idea, and we've completely botched it because nobody bothered to consider our own traditions, culture, or technical capabilities. Every once in a while, some project floats over from Europe—across every single sector—that exists primarily so the people running it can line their pockets and claim a "success story." Naturally, these types of projects wouldn't fly in Finland or Belgium, so they're sold to us, to people who jump at anything labeled "European." Lately, even our own experts have been doing the same thing, trying to sell half-baked ideas to Canada, Mexico, Mexico, and Albania.

If you look at the feedback on the e-consultation forums, people working in music schools are asking the exact same question: when are they actually going to be able to teach?

Since the elective after-school activities are scheduled for after 5:00 PM...
first of all, following the A2 program, even starting from 1st through 4th grade, they might be able to make it to music school around 2:30 or 3:00 PM (assuming they don't opt for the B programs at school, like Fuchs mentioned on your thread). But by 5th and 6th grade, and especially in 7th and 8th, it won't be possible before 5:00 PM.
(When you look at the regular schedule for mandatory subjects in both A1 and A2 programs—with two extra hours added every day—there is absolutely no way everything finishes before 4:30 PM.)
Even if the music school rents space within the elementary school or isn't located right next door, the kids will be limited to maybe one or two hours for both theory and instrument instruction. And they really should include time for practicing the instrument too. I guess they expect them to practice at 10:00 PM just to keep the neighbors happy! 😬

It seems like there’s no real plan for the arts schools. It feels like the expectation is for them to just die out naturally so the government can cut down on budget spending.
Then they can use that money to pay theologians and IT specialists instead.

Susan James said:If you look at the feedback on the e-consultation forums, people working in music schools are asking the exact same question: when are they actually going to be able to teach?

Since the elective after-school activities are scheduled for after 5:00 PM...
first of all, following the A2 program, even starting from 1st through 4th grade, they might be able to make it to music school around 2:30 or 3:00 PM (assuming they don't opt for the B programs at school, like Fuchs mentioned on your thread). But by 5th and 6th grade, and especially in 7th and 8th, it won't be possible before 5:00 PM.
(When you look at the regular schedule for mandatory subjects in both A1 and A2 programs—with two extra hours added every day—there is absolutely no way everything finishes before 4:30 PM.)
Even if the music school rents space within the elementary school or isn't located right next door, the kids will be limited to maybe one or two hours for both theory and instrument instruction. And they really should include time for practicing the instrument too. I guess they expect them to practice at 10:00 PM just to keep the neighbors happy! 😬

It seems like there’s no real plan for the arts schools. It feels like the expectation is for them to just die out naturally so the government can cut down on budget spending.
Then they can use that money to pay theologians and IT specialists instead.

And it might not even be a natural death; it looks more like a violent one. So many children enroll in arts schools.
My child's music teacher isn't even close to home; we travel to a specific instructor because she is truly talented, regardless of the distance. Now, she'd be expected to spend half her day at school forcing some kind of "creativity," while presumably forgetting all about her instrument...🙄

Susan James said:If you look at the feedback on the e-consultation forums, people working in music schools are asking the exact same question: when are they actually going to be able to teach?

Since the elective after-school activities are scheduled for after 5:00 PM...
first of all, following the A2 program, even starting from 1st through 4th grade, they might be able to make it to music school around 2:30 or 3:00 PM (assuming they don't opt for the B programs at school, like Fuchs mentioned on your thread). But by 5th and 6th grade, and especially in 7th and 8th, it won't be possible before 5:00 PM.
(When you look at the regular schedule for mandatory subjects in both A1 and A2 programs—with two extra hours added every day—there is absolutely no way everything finishes before 4:30 PM.)
Even if the music school rents space within the elementary school or isn't located right next door, the kids will be limited to maybe one or two hours for both theory and instrument instruction. And they really should include time for practicing the instrument too. I guess they expect them to practice at 10:00 PM just to keep the neighbors happy! 😬

It seems like there’s no real plan for the arts schools. It feels like the expectation is for them to just die out naturally so the government can cut down on budget spending.
Then they can use that money to pay theologians and IT specialists instead.

I honestly cannot believe the team that drafted this document didn't account for these things, or maybe they’re just a group of total ignoramuses. But hey, anything is possible here.
Music, dance, and art schools are actual schools, with their own full schedules and specific subject requirements. I attended both my local school and a music school as a kid, meaning I had a schedule for ear training, instruments, and orchestra, all happening during the opposite shift from regular classes. It was pretty exhausting, but I loved it. How is a whole school expected to abandon its entire schedule just to move into an elementary school building? (And which one, even? Not all kids from one school attend the same music academy😵 😵, and there are separate classes for ear training; how are instrument teachers supposed to hold one-on-one lessons? Generally speaking—wtf were they thinking?? Or rather, were they thinking at all??) And all of this is meant for older students after 5:00 PM, once they've spent the entire damn day sitting in class? What motivation or energy will they possibly have left to pull that off?

ambereagle88 said:And it might not even be a natural death; it looks more like a violent one. So many children enroll in arts schools.
My child's music teacher isn't even close to home; we travel to a specific instructor because she is truly talented, regardless of the distance. Now, she'd be expected to spend half her day at school forcing some kind of "creativity," while presumably forgetting all about her instrument...🙄

The reason I say it won't be a natural death is because this whole project was originally designed to roll out to just 50 experimental schools over the next four years before hitting the rest. It’ll slowly phase out in those pilot schools, and then basically face an abrupt end everywhere else in America if this experiment actually goes through.

But of course, the pundits will claim that full-day schooling works perfectly in other Western nations, the European Union, or Canada... and that we should all be striving for that. 🙄
Forget the arts; we just need to push STEM. 🧐
If there isn't enough room in the budget for specialized art teachers, they can always afford to hire more Social Studies and History instructors, theologians for religious studies, or maybe a few extra computer science teachers.

We shouldn't forget that this full-day school initiative is really just the brainchild of the former Secretary of Education (the current one is just using it for campaign purposes)... and from the very first announcement, staff at arts academies have been terrified about their future. They're worried about how they'll work and what their lives will look like—if they're working until 7 or 8 PM while their own kids are sitting in school in the morning, when will they actually see them?
I have a colleague whose entire family has worked in music education for generations, and they are struggling immensely. A huge number of kids burned out during the pandemic (partly due to the stress of learning in outdated buildings), and this change will only exacerbate that burnout... or rather, people will just stop enrolling altogether.

Back in 2020, when they started reopening schools for the younger grades, people were flooding the Secretary's Facebook page with comments about music schools (where lessons are one-on-one, meaning social distancing is easy and classes could have easily continued). Not only did she ignore those messages, but she actually deleted them—in a way where she hides the comment so others don't see it, even though you might not realize it's gone because it still appears on your screen. Simply put, she doesn't care; she just looks at her screen and moves on.

Susan James said:The reason I say it won't be a natural death is because this whole project was originally designed to roll out to just 50 experimental schools over the next four years before hitting the rest. It’ll slowly phase out in those pilot schools, and then basically face an abrupt end everywhere else in America if this experiment actually goes through.

But of course, the pundits will claim that full-day schooling works perfectly in other Western nations, the European Union, or Canada... and that we should all be striving for that. 🙄
Forget the arts; we just need to push STEM. 🧐
If there isn't enough room in the budget for specialized art teachers, they can always afford to hire more Social Studies and History instructors, theologians for religious studies, or maybe a few extra computer science teachers.

We shouldn't forget that this full-day school initiative is really just the brainchild of the former Secretary of Education (the current one is just using it for campaign purposes)... and from the very first announcement, staff at arts academies have been terrified about their future. They're worried about how they'll work and what their lives will look like—if they're working until 7 or 8 PM while their own kids are sitting in school in the morning, when will they actually see them?
I have a colleague whose entire family has worked in music education for generations, and they are struggling immensely. A huge number of kids burned out during the pandemic (partly due to the stress of learning in outdated buildings), and this change will only exacerbate that burnout... or rather, people will just stop enrolling altogether.

Back in 2020, when they started reopening schools for the younger grades, people were flooding the Secretary's Facebook page with comments about music schools (where lessons are one-on-one, meaning social distancing is easy and classes could have easily continued). Not only did she ignore those messages, but she actually deleted them—in a way where she hides the comment so others don't see it, even though you might not realize it's gone because it still appears on your screen. Simply put, she doesn't care; she just looks at her screen and moves on.

👎 👎 Look, if you’ve already climbed all the way up to a Cabinet position, you might as well face the criticism head-on and actually fix the problem. You can't just sweep this under the rug.

The threat of mandatory group study sessions every single day is looming over us. It’s like you aren't even allowed to go home. Personally, I’d choose being at home, doing things my way, over spending the rest of my afternoon stuck with the entire class. Especially when that includes the group that spends their time undermining everything, sabotaging lessons, acting out just to get attention, or bullying other kids—it's a nightmare. But I guess the program will be "fair" and "equal" for everyone, just like it always is in our broken American education system: we all have to bend to the rules, especially the good, quiet, well-behaved kids, just so they don't have to deal with the bullies or the troublemakers.

Back in middle school, I used to study out loud while pacing around my room. For geography, I’d tape a map to my closet and pretend I was standing at the front of the classroom answering questions. I studied with music playing, sitting on my bed, using a massive pile of highlighters to mark things up. I just loved having music in my room and drawing constantly; my creativity really exploded during 7th and 8th grade, and it was a huge source of joy for me. So, I honestly don't understand what developmental psychologists concluded when they decided that forced socialization, all day, every day, is somehow beneficial for young teenagers, or how this is supposed to improve their cognitive performance. Ever since the pandemic, we've seen a surge in school phobias, anxiety, and self-harm among students during subject classes. How is this policy going to impact those trends?

jadetinker85 said:👎 👎 Look, if you’ve already climbed all the way up to a Cabinet position, you might as well face the criticism head-on and actually fix the problem. You can't just sweep this under the rug.

What kind of solution are we talking about? She clearly states that her sole focus is STEM education—nothing else matters to her. That’s why she was appointed to this position; the Associated Press reported that after several protests, leadership decided people were basically waiting at bus stops just hoping their kids would finally get computer science classes in school.

Just look at her latest article regarding full-day schooling. Her big concern is whether our kids will spend their time learning practical skills like sewing, especially when they'll only get one hour of computer science.
When people try to explain the benefits of hands-on crafts and how much they help child development, she just doubles down on screens and how vital it is for kids to be staring at monitors all day.
The fact that kids will be sitting in classrooms until five in the afternoon doesn't seem to bother her at all.

Fuchs actually took it a step further. In a bit of political maneuvering consistent with her party's platform (even though she wasn't officially affiliated), she's trying to convince everyone that school will end by 2:00 PM, giving them plenty of time for extracurriculars, while somehow promising they'll still learn everything and finish all their homework.

Bryan Wells11 said:The threat of mandatory group study sessions every single day is looming over us. It’s like you aren't even allowed to go home. Personally, I’d choose being at home, doing things my way, over spending the rest of my afternoon stuck with the entire class. Especially when that includes the group that spends their time undermining everything, sabotaging lessons, acting out just to get attention, or bullying other kids—it's a nightmare. But I guess the program will be "fair" and "equal" for everyone, just like it always is in our broken American education system: we all have to bend to the rules, especially the good, quiet, well-behaved kids, just so they don't have to deal with the bullies or the troublemakers.

Back in middle school, I used to study out loud while pacing around my room. For geography, I’d tape a map to my closet and pretend I was standing at the front of the classroom answering questions. I studied with music playing, sitting on my bed, using a massive pile of highlighters to mark things up. I just loved having music in my room and drawing constantly; my creativity really exploded during 7th and 8th grade, and it was a huge source of joy for me. So, I honestly don't understand what developmental psychologists concluded when they decided that forced socialization, all day, every day, is somehow beneficial for young teenagers, or how this is supposed to improve their cognitive performance. Ever since the pandemic, we've seen a surge in school phobias, anxiety, and self-harm among students during subject classes. How is this policy going to impact those trends?

this is just a working group

where exactly do you see psychologists involved?

What’s even the point of assigning homework if kids are just going to spend all their extra time at school doing more formal learning anyway?

I haven't seen anything mentioned about introducing new ways for teachers to actually maintain discipline, or even methods to handle students who cause disruptions and need to be removed from the classroom. Without those tools, you only need two or three troublemakers having fun being disruptive to completely wreck group lessons for everyone else.

I'm telling you, they just aren't there.

In my opinion, this looks more like a group tasked with drafting new curricula rather than the actual brain trust behind the entire experiment.

Adam Diaz67 said:What’s even the point of assigning homework if kids are just going to spend all their extra time at school doing more formal learning anyway?

I haven't seen anything mentioned about introducing new ways for teachers to actually maintain discipline, or even methods to handle students who cause disruptions and need to be removed from the classroom. Without those tools, you only need two or three troublemakers having fun being disruptive to completely wreck group lessons for everyone else.

Well, that’s standard enough given they're only on a regular school schedule right now. I can't even begin to imagine what it'll be like once they're stuck in a classroom for the full day.

Collaborative learning—I find myself genuinely curious about how that would actually play out in practice. 🙄
How much focus can we actually expect to dedicate to math problems or essay writing? And when exactly is anyone supposed to find the time to get through the required reading list?
My child approaches school with genuine interest and a positive attitude. However, she often needs a little help connecting the dots between different subjects. We usually end up having these deep dives at home—looking things up on a map, watching a few videos on YouTube, or me reminding her of a trip we took to a museum or a national park where she actually saw those concepts in action. It’s all about making those connections stick.

Bryan Wells11 said:I'm telling you, they just aren't there.

In my opinion, this looks more like a group tasked with drafting new curricula rather than the actual brain trust behind the entire experiment.

True. Drafting a syllabus for a new subject is one thing; engineering an entirely new set of responsibilities is something else altogether.

There are over 700 comments on the online consultation portal, and I hope that number keeps climbing. But honestly, I have to wonder if the people actually drafting this mess are even reading them, let alone considering what action to take. So far, I haven’t seen a single positive comment there, nor have I heard anything encouraging from my colleagues in the teacher forums.

Let me repeat: why are the authors of this document hiding behind anonymity?

Why is the SEC going to the media before they even talk to education employees?

And why is the public being fed nothing but filtered, sanitized, and incomplete information?

Why did the Secretary claim that the feedback on the consultation was orchestrated? Are the folks in political leadership really that paranoid—that they can't believe people are just using common sense? Or are those office chairs just too comfortable to leave?

So, I asked the kids if they wanted to tackle this topic for their school assignment, and now I’m busy condensing part of the document to give them as reading material. The goal? To make sure their commentary actually makes sense when they sit down to write.

They did ask, though—can they just post their thoughts in the comments section over at 🤣

Schools are all buzzing about those $300 million in subsidies, and suddenly everyone is scrambling to make sure their district gets a piece of the pie. But I have to ask: why on earth are they cutting back on computer science—the very thing we need to actually function in the future—while doubling down on these soft, propaganda-heavy humanities courses? If we’re supposedly heading into a tech-driven future, what kind of future are we actually building here?

Jose Wells3 said:So, I asked the kids if they wanted to tackle this topic for their school assignment, and now I’m busy condensing part of the document to give them as reading material. The goal? To make sure their commentary actually makes sense when they sit down to write.

They did ask, though—can they just post their thoughts in the comments section over at 🤣

😍

Oh man, that is such a cool idea!
Honestly, even the former Secretary of Education would be proud—this is a real life lesson right here.
Active community engagement 🎉🎉🎉

Bravo!
(This is honestly a fantastic idea. It would be amazing if all the HJ teachers let their students weigh in on this... or maybe even have them write a comparison between our school today and what it looks like in the future, maybe comparing us to places like Harvard or schools in Canada 😍)
Who knows, there might actually be some kids out there who find this really engaging 🤔

Robert Wilson said:Schools are all buzzing about those $300 million in subsidies, and suddenly everyone is scrambling to make sure their district gets a piece of the pie. But I have to ask: why on earth are they cutting back on computer science—the very thing we need to actually function in the future—while doubling down on these soft, propaganda-heavy humanities courses? If we’re supposedly heading into a tech-driven future, what kind of future are we actually building here?

I find it hard to believe nobody noticed this, and we aren't talking about millions here. 😁 We're looking at maybe $300,000. That might cover building a small gym, patching up a roof, or swapping out some old windows.

Susan James said:😍

Oh man, that is such a cool idea!
Honestly, even the former Secretary of Education would be proud—this is a real life lesson right here.
Active community engagement 🎉🎉🎉

Bravo!
(This is honestly a fantastic idea. It would be amazing if all the HJ teachers let their students weigh in on this... or maybe even have them write a comparison between our school today and what it looks like in the future, maybe comparing us to places like Harvard or schools in Canada 😍)
Who knows, there might actually be some kids out there who find this really engaging 🤔

The former Secretary wouldn't be proud unless they were writing on tablets. 😁

It’s a great idea. Just like the idea of submitting this during the advisory session. 👍

Civic education in action 😍 love this 👍

We should really get a debate club going—one side for, one side against—just to let people actually hash out their arguments. It reminds me of those old debate shows they used to run on CNN back in the day. I'm not sure why they phased them out, because honestly, they were great 😢

ambereagle88 said:The former Secretary wouldn't be proud unless they were writing on tablets. 😁

It’s a great idea. Just like the idea of submitting this during the advisory session. 👍

Personally, I'd happily hand over some tablets to help get this done. 🙏