All-day school schedules

nimblelynx7 said:You misunderstood me. I have five years in electrical engineering and five years in law.

It all depends on what you do and where you do it. You need to see the kind of expertise and pressure a lead engineer deals with when they're commissioning an industrial plant worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Unfortunately, that wasn't me—that was a colleague of mine.

Looks like you’re in the same boat as me—stuck with two completely unrelated degrees under your belt. 😁

I spent my early career working in the oil industry—think ExxonMobil levels of intensity—and honestly, the stress was so relentless I was staring down a massive burnout. It was exhausting. Fortunately, I eventually had that moment of clarity where I realized my happiness wasn't going to be found in constant jet-setting or stacking up a mountain of cash; instead, it’s something you have to cultivate internally. So, I made the pivot over to education, and I haven't regretted a single second of it. I genuinely love working with kids—it's a completely different world, and I'm much better off for it.

The real issue today isn't just one thing—it's the suffocating mountain of paperwork and the fact that teachers have been stripped of any actual authority. It’s like they’re expected to be glorified data entry clerks instead of educators. I don't personally run into this wall, though—mostly because I actually have a backbone, and, well... let's just say I'm not exactly a pushover. 😁 Honestly, plenty of my colleagues are going through all sorts of things—ranging from burnout to straight-up disillusionment. Teaching used to hold a certain level of respect, but let’s be real: the profession has taken a massive hit, though that’s not just limited to educators. It seems like every field is sliding downhill lately. I guess that’s just the kind of society we're living in now.

This friend of mine who’s working as a physiatrist now—he spent years absolutely grinding away in the ER. He was basically running on autopilot just to keep people alive, totally drained, but he was out there doing the work and saving lives every single day.

It honestly cracks me up whenever someone brings up school in the context of "stress." Like, sorry, but teachers haven't the slightest clue what actual pressure feels like—the kind where you’re responsible for a multi-million dollar project or, well, a human life (okay, I don't know about the latter, but I’ve been dealing with that dynamic in my own family my entire life).

Oh, absolutely—if you’re looking for proof that professors have been stripped of their authority and left completely out of the loop, you won't find a better example than this. It’s a total reality.

nimblelynx7 said:Then where else are you supposed to learn this stuff if not in college? Prep schools are honestly the worst kind of secondary education, even if they act all elite and superior. You spend four years studying everything, then graduate and realize you don't actually know anything useful; everything you learned is basically just trivia for pub quizzes. If you don't head straight to a university after that, you're screwed. You'll be forced into some specific vocational training for a job, and all that knowledge about the Baroque period, logic, the GDP of Uzbekistan, or Napoleon wars? You can just throw it in the trash.

So you're claiming the curriculum at an electrotechnical high school is a total joke, and anyone can teach it?

Not even close. It's definitely not as easy as it looks.

Anthony Stewart5 said:Since 1979, the city of Cleveland has offered an all-day school program, a model that isn't universally available in every district. This initiative has been executed with remarkable success for over forty years, providing a structured environment where children remain on campus from 8:00 AM until 4:00 PM at the latest. Specifically designed for the younger grades, the program ensures that every classroom is staffed by two teachers, allowing for a seamless integration of academic instruction and enriching leisure activities that children truly enjoy.

It is difficult to grasp what this individual could possibly hope to achieve by proposing such a concept, given that a system nearly identical to his vision is already successfully established right here in America.

That sounds like a winner 👍

shadowtiger0 said:That sounds like a winner 👍

I have a thirty-year-old son who spent his entire life in all-day childcare programs, and since those types of educational structures still work perfectly well today, I find myself wondering why we are attempting to reinvent the wheel by creating problems where none exist? 🤔

Wait, does that apply to subjects in Seattle too?
Could you give me some more info? When kids are learning, do they go to music school for all this stuff we've been talking about?

rowdypanther12 said:Wait, does that apply to subjects in Seattle too?
Could you give me some more info? When kids are learning, do they go to music school for all this stuff we've been talking about?

In Seattle, they only offer that for the lower grades.

Typically, one teacher handles half the subjects while another covers the rest. The school day pauses around noon for lunch and a quick break before resuming; one instructor takes the morning block, and the other manages the afternoon.

To make a day look, it follows this flow:
Morning assembly and a brief meeting to start the day
Breakfast
Classes, studying, or playtime
Lunch, combined with play and learning sessions
More lessons and tackling any necessary homework
Afternoon snack

The textbooks stay at the school from Monday through Friday, and students only take them home for the weekends.
It is worth noting that the fixed schedule was primarily for the specialized instructors teaching specific subjects; everything else was left to the discretion of the main teachers, allowing them to decide the best balance between instruction, playtime, and study sessions.

They have dedicated foreign language instructors as well; my child had a specialist for that in fourth grade, along with a music teacher, and I believe there were others as well, though I cannot recall specifically.

By the time the children entered fifth grade, they were completely prepared for specialized subject instruction thanks to that immersive full-day environment, and in my opinion, this model should be extended through eighth grade.

Nah, Cleveland only does that for the elementary level.
So why don't they just roll that out across the whole US?
The answer is pretty obvious: why pay two teachers when you can just dump everything on one person and save half the budget? That’s basically how Harvey Weinstein—who apparently runs the finance department at the Department of Education—thinks. He's like that guy who survives in any social circle by being just slippery enough, and his ultimate goal seems to be making teachers work 40 hours of straight instruction a week while actually paying the school for the privilege... well, if his recent moves and statements are anything to go by.

Anthony Stewart5 said:In Seattle, they only offer that for the lower grades.

Typically, one teacher handles half the subjects while another covers the rest. The school day pauses around noon for lunch and a quick break before resuming; one instructor takes the morning block, and the other manages the afternoon.

To make a day look, it follows this flow:
Morning assembly and a brief meeting to start the day
Breakfast
Classes, studying, or playtime
Lunch, combined with play and learning sessions
More lessons and tackling any necessary homework
Afternoon snack

The textbooks stay at the school from Monday through Friday, and students only take them home for the weekends.
It is worth noting that the fixed schedule was primarily for the specialized instructors teaching specific subjects; everything else was left to the discretion of the main teachers, allowing them to decide the best balance between instruction, playtime, and study sessions.

They have dedicated foreign language instructors as well; my child had a specialist for that in fourth grade, along with a music teacher, and I believe there were others as well, though I cannot recall specifically.

By the time the children entered fifth grade, they were completely prepared for specialized subject instruction thanks to that immersive full-day environment, and in my opinion, this model should be extended through eighth grade.

Awesome 👍👍👍

Sarah Hall53 said:Nah, Cleveland only does that for the elementary level.
So why don't they just roll that out across the whole US?
The answer is pretty obvious: why pay two teachers when you can just dump everything on one person and save half the budget? That’s basically how Harvey Weinstein—who apparently runs the finance department at the Department of Education—thinks. He's like that guy who survives in any social circle by being just slippery enough, and his ultimate goal seems to be making teachers work 40 hours of straight instruction a week while actually paying the school for the privilege... well, if his recent moves and statements are anything to go by.

Under this model, parents essentially end up subsidizing the salary of the second teacher.

Sarah Hall53 said:Nah, Cleveland only does that for the elementary level.
So why don't they just roll that out across the whole US?
The answer is pretty obvious: why pay two teachers when you can just dump everything on one person and save half the budget? That’s basically how Harvey Weinstein—who apparently runs the finance department at the Department of Education—thinks. He's like that guy who survives in any social circle by being just slippery enough, and his ultimate goal seems to be making teachers work 40 hours of straight instruction a week while actually paying the school for the privilege... well, if his recent moves and statements are anything to go by.

I mean, one teacher isn't going to pull it off. How is that even physically possible? 🤔

Anthony Stewart5 said:In Seattle, they only offer that for the lower grades.

Typically, one teacher handles half the subjects while another covers the rest. The school day pauses around noon for lunch and a quick break before resuming; one instructor takes the morning block, and the other manages the afternoon.

To make a day look, it follows this flow:
Morning assembly and a brief meeting to start the day
Breakfast
Classes, studying, or playtime
Lunch, combined with play and learning sessions
More lessons and tackling any necessary homework
Afternoon snack

The textbooks stay at the school from Monday through Friday, and students only take them home for the weekends.
It is worth noting that the fixed schedule was primarily for the specialized instructors teaching specific subjects; everything else was left to the discretion of the main teachers, allowing them to decide the best balance between instruction, playtime, and study sessions.

They have dedicated foreign language instructors as well; my child had a specialist for that in fourth grade, along with a music teacher, and I believe there were others as well, though I cannot recall specifically.

By the time the children entered fifth grade, they were completely prepared for specialized subject instruction thanks to that immersive full-day environment, and in my opinion, this model should be extended through eighth grade.

Why stop at 8th? Extend it until high school graduation? No, not graduation—until they get a college degree?

nimblelynx7 said:Then where else are you supposed to learn this stuff if not in college? Prep schools are honestly the worst kind of secondary education, even if they act all elite and superior. You spend four years studying everything, then graduate and realize you don't actually know anything useful; everything you learned is basically just trivia for pub quizzes. If you don't head straight to a university after that, you're screwed. You'll be forced into some specific vocational training for a job, and all that knowledge about the Baroque period, logic, the GDP of Uzbekistan, or Napoleon wars? You can just throw it in the trash.

So you're claiming the curriculum at an electrotechnical high school is a total joke, and anyone can teach it?

That's not how it works. Right now, in a school in Chicago, a PhD student from MIT is teaching a class—and get this, he actually graduated from a traditional high school before heading to MIT.

As much as high schools get on my nerves, your take is dangerous and frankly disrespectful to everyone coming out of those schools who go on to dominate enrollment at top-tier universities here in the States and abroad. I'm talking about our students, but also the world-class students everywhere.

There’s a more civilized, sensible way to say this, and I totally get your point—vocational programs really should have more rigorous curricula and better pathways into specialized university programs.

It’s unheard of, really—it's unbelievable that students from vocational tracks struggle to get into medical school.

Anthony Stewart5 said:In Seattle, they only offer that for the lower grades.

Typically, one teacher handles half the subjects while another covers the rest. The school day pauses around noon for lunch and a quick break before resuming; one instructor takes the morning block, and the other manages the afternoon.

To make a day look, it follows this flow:
Morning assembly and a brief meeting to start the day
Breakfast
Classes, studying, or playtime
Lunch, combined with play and learning sessions
More lessons and tackling any necessary homework
Afternoon snack

The textbooks stay at the school from Monday through Friday, and students only take them home for the weekends.
It is worth noting that the fixed schedule was primarily for the specialized instructors teaching specific subjects; everything else was left to the discretion of the main teachers, allowing them to decide the best balance between instruction, playtime, and study sessions.

They have dedicated foreign language instructors as well; my child had a specialist for that in fourth grade, along with a music teacher, and I believe there were others as well, though I cannot recall specifically.

By the time the children entered fifth grade, they were completely prepared for specialized subject instruction thanks to that immersive full-day environment, and in my opinion, this model should be extended through eighth grade.

So it’s basically just like an after-school program in Chicago. 🤔The concept is slightly different, but it ends up being the same: school in the morning, a snack, more school, lunch, playtime, homework, and then another snack and some play.

That said, I don't really see the point in keeping kids aged 10 and up at school for that long. At that age, they don't need constant supervision anymore; what they actually need is peace and quiet to study and the freedom to be responsible.

nimblelynx7 said:Why stop at 8th? Extend it until high school graduation? No, not graduation—until they get a college degree?

I don't know anything about your background, whether you have children, or what your own relationship with the education system looks like.

I am speaking strictly from my perspective as a parent. In our experience, when my child was in after-school care, they were exceptionally well looked after; they received three nutritious meals, had their homework completed, and returned home feeling genuinely content. Is it not true that many parents would find a sense of relief if they didn't have to spend every evening hovering over their children to ensure they study? Furthermore, wouldn't this provide children with a vital opportunity to socialize and cultivate a sense of self-discipline?
To be perfectly honest, I struggle to see any significant advantage in an eleven-year-old coming home at 12:30 or 1:00 PM only to sit around waiting for their parents to finish the workday. 🤷

Anthony Stewart5 said:I don't know anything about your background, whether you have children, or what your own relationship with the education system looks like.

I am speaking strictly from my perspective as a parent. In our experience, when my child was in after-school care, they were exceptionally well looked after; they received three nutritious meals, had their homework completed, and returned home feeling genuinely content. Is it not true that many parents would find a sense of relief if they didn't have to spend every evening hovering over their children to ensure they study? Furthermore, wouldn't this provide children with a vital opportunity to socialize and cultivate a sense of self-discipline?
To be perfectly honest, I struggle to see any significant advantage in an eleven-year-old coming home at 12:30 or 1:00 PM only to sit around waiting for their parents to finish the workday. 🤷

Wait, what do you mean by "waiting for their parents"?

rowdypanther12 said:So it’s basically just like an after-school program in Chicago. 🤔The concept is slightly different, but it ends up being the same: school in the morning, a snack, more school, lunch, playtime, homework, and then another snack and some play.

That said, I don't really see the point in keeping kids aged 10 and up at school for that long. At that age, they don't need constant supervision anymore; what they actually need is peace and quiet to study and the freedom to be responsible.

That isn't quite right, because in a standard after-school program, you have the flexibility to pick up your child after lunch whenever you choose. Here, you can't simply show up before 4:00 PM when the official school day concludes. It isn't as if they finish their work early in the morning and spend the rest of the day fooling around; instead, the entire instructional day is stretched out, punctuated by breaks for rest, play, meals, and study sessions.

rowdypanther12 said:Wait, what do you mean by "waiting for their parents"?

Fifth graders usually wrap up their school day by 1:00 PM at the latest. For instance, back when I was working, I wouldn't finish until 5:00 PM and wouldn't walk through my own front door until 5:30 PM.

That specific window of time... what are your children actually doing during those hours? Most music lessons and organized sports tend to be scheduled for the late afternoon. In my case, my child would simply stay home, though I cannot speak to the routines of others.

Anthony Stewart5 said:I don't know anything about your background, whether you have children, or what your own relationship with the education system looks like.

I am speaking strictly from my perspective as a parent. In our experience, when my child was in after-school care, they were exceptionally well looked after; they received three nutritious meals, had their homework completed, and returned home feeling genuinely content. Is it not true that many parents would find a sense of relief if they didn't have to spend every evening hovering over their children to ensure they study? Furthermore, wouldn't this provide children with a vital opportunity to socialize and cultivate a sense of self-discipline?
To be perfectly honest, I struggle to see any significant advantage in an eleven-year-old coming home at 12:30 or 1:00 PM only to sit around waiting for their parents to finish the workday. 🤷

Personally? I absolutely loathe doing homework with my kids. And mind you, I’m a teacher—school has basically been my entire life. Not to mention how poorly designed most of these assignments are; they're often so convoluted that a child can't possibly grasp them. It’s glaringly obvious that these textbooks were written by some PhD academic who hasn't spent a single day actually working in a real American classroom.

Anthony Stewart5 said:That isn't quite right, because in a standard after-school program, you have the flexibility to pick up your child after lunch whenever you choose. Here, you can't simply show up before 4:00 PM when the official school day concludes. It isn't as if they finish their work early in the morning and spend the rest of the day fooling around; instead, the entire instructional day is stretched out, punctuated by breaks for rest, play, meals, and study sessions.

I think you're right—it’s definitely different. I actually feel like our local daycare program in Chicago was much better for the kids because they could head home as soon as they finished their homework.
Otherwise, we couldn't pick them up on our own schedule, and they couldn't just hang out at home whenever they wanted,
only when the bell rang.
We used to email the teacher all the time to let them know the kids could come home early if they were heading over to a friend's house to finish homework and play.

You can't really demand parent participation when you make it a mandatory requirement for everyone. It kind of defeats the whole purpose, doesn't it?

shadowtiger0 said:I mean, one teacher isn't going to pull it off. How is that even physically possible? 🤔

Just take a look at that absolute mess of a document from the town hall meeting. Then tell me—where on earth are you supposed to find another elementary school teacher to step in?