All-day school schedules

northerntiger9 said:Don't laugh—but we’ve completely overlooked something that is actually essential these days. I’d love to see it integrated into computer science classes—not necessarily as its own subject, but just part of the curriculum. 😬 It is infinitely easier and faster to type when you actually know how to do it properly, rather than picking up bad habits early on that are a nightmare to fix later. Is touch typing still taught in business schools at all? It seems strange that nobody thought to expand this further; after all, everyone uses a keyboard now, not just secretaries. 😬

I couldn't agree more. I finished my business administration degree back in 1999, and even then, they referred to it as office technology. Now I see it's often called computer typing, and I truly believe it should be mandatory for everyone.
For me, it was a total game-changer and helped me immensely...

The MIT crowd? Honestly, they were absolute jokes—the kind of people you’d rather forget existed the moment they leave the room. It wasn't even that they were complaining.

My general takeaway: just a bunch of muscle heads. Their heads sort of wobbled around like those old turtle figurines grandmas used to keep on their bookshelves. And despite being in college, most of them had somehow completely skipped leg day... so, yeah...

There's even a running joke about them: Two MIT students are waiting for the bus when they see a third guy sprinting past, and they just yell, "Streber!"

That said, I know plenty of them who are brilliant experts. I’d never dream of generalizing.

But anyway, getting back to the main point...

How do we feel about the possibility of hitting our goals with such a demoralized workforce? And more importantly, is that really what we want?

northerntiger9 said:Don't laugh—but we’ve completely overlooked something that is actually essential these days. I’d love to see it integrated into computer science classes—not necessarily as its own subject, but just part of the curriculum. 😬 It is infinitely easier and faster to type when you actually know how to do it properly, rather than picking up bad habits early on that are a nightmare to fix later. Is touch typing still taught in business schools at all? It seems strange that nobody thought to expand this further; after all, everyone uses a keyboard now, not just secretaries. 😬

Oh, definitely... I've brought this up in conversations more than once, and people always suggest using dictation or Google Voice, but honestly? It just doesn't cut it. Nowadays, you might be able to pull a meeting transcript if everyone speaks clearly, but trying to turn that mess into something coherent is usually more exhausting than just typing it from scratch. Being able to touch type with all ten fingers—especially when you're multitasking, like listening to someone or debating a topic—is such a massive advantage. You become incomparably more efficient than colleagues who haven't mastered it. And don't even get me started on the ability to breeze through hundreds of emails a day; that's a vital skill regardless of what field you're in. It's just like knowing how to use Microsoft Excel. 😁

We really ought to have a semester dedicated solely to data processing in Microsoft Excel. If you can actually organize data across multiple sheets, master pivot tables, and build decent charts, you've basically secured half the corporate job market already.

Nicholas Davis4 said:Under Suvar’s leadership, high schools didn't even exist in that format.

I used to think that whole "2+2" educational model was a total mess.
But looking back now, it actually seems better designed than our current system; I’d take that old structure any day.
I'd also bring back entrance exams for both high school and college.

There were definitely some upsides to how things used to work. Being able to make those big decisions at sixteen rather than fourteen gave you more breathing room—it let you actually figure out where your interests were leaning before committing. Back then, our school district used to house both the junior high and the high school in the same large campus, just with separate entrances. That setup naturally created a sense of distinction. You knew exactly what kind of environment you were stepping into, whether you were heading into the old academic prep academy, the technical vocational wing, or the trade school side. Since the faculty was shared across the buildings, you could pretty much predict the level of rigor and the type of expertise you’d be getting depending on which hall you walked through.

The real issue stems from how our vocational programs were structured—that whole 2+1 model just didn't leave enough breathing room. When you look at the timeline, there simply wasn't sufficient time to actually master the necessary skills. How can you expect anyone to gain true proficiency when the curriculum is rushed like that? It’s a fundamental flaw in the training period itself.

I honestly think we should have gone with a 2+3 model—you know, keeping the academic prep schools and the four-year vocational tracks separate. Instead, we ended up with this 2+2 setup that mirrors what those three-year programs are doing today. If we had structured it that way, we probably wouldn't be dealing with such a massive gap in basic foundational knowledge. Wouldn't it have been better to ensure everyone actually mastered the fundamentals before moving on?

Sarah Hall53 said:It wasn't even real high school back then; they were just those "vocational" training centers for teaching assistants and other junk like that.

As for that tiered schooling model, it's a disaster—those early years just act as a massive drag on everyone. You've got the kids who are capable of so much more, but they're being held back and slowed down by the exact same system that stifled them in elementary school. Then you have the kids who are struggling, and instead of getting help with the fundamentals, they're forced through a curriculum that's way too advanced for their actual knowledge gaps. So everyone ends up stuck, and nobody ever really gets to reach their full potential.

Do you honestly think all these fake perfect scores are dragging down the quality of education? It’s not just about one semester, either—it’s more like four years of systemic damage instead of just two.
I’ve been hearing quite a few complaints from parents lately regarding the current curriculum. It seems like there's a growing wave of pushback across several generations because the material has become so incredibly dense and difficult to navigate. Is it just me, or is the academic load getting heavier every single year?

Anyway, let’s get back to the point at hand:
I honestly don't see this actually working. There is just no way they can build out all the necessary infrastructure in only four years. If you look at the rural areas and small towns across America, you’ll see schools that are still struggling without basic facilities—no gymnasiums, no proper kitchens, no cafeterias, and outdated classroom setups. How can you expect to implement something this massive when the foundation isn't even there yet?

It really makes me wonder about all that wasted capital. Honestly, wouldn't that money be better spent actually improving the status of teachers in our society? But then again, how realistic is that in a country where expertise is constantly being sidelined in favor of deep pockets and who you know?

Forget about getting any actual learning done today; this whole thing is going to vanish just as fast as Andrej Plenković’s promise to get ExxonMobil back from Chevron.

Jesus, what an incredibly childish way to mock the actual argument—it’s just some petty competition about which degree is harder or whose dad has more clout. 🤦🤦

shadowtiger0 said:Whatever—the guy has a doctorate. We aren't educators. That's just the reality of it.

As for those jokes about our department? Sure, they exist. They exist for every major out there. But let's be real—we aren't kids anymore; we all know which programs are grueling and exactly what kind of people enroll in them.

I hold a double professor credential on my diploma, so am I somehow ranked higher than a specialist physician or someone with a degree from Johns Hopkins? 🙂

nimblelynx7 said:You misunderstood me. I have five years in electrical engineering and five years in law.

It all depends on what you do and where you do it. You need to see the kind of expertise and pressure a lead engineer deals with when they're commissioning an industrial plant worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Unfortunately, that wasn't me—that was a colleague of mine.

And you're using those two incredibly demanding and high-paying degrees to do what you currently do?
I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry. Either you're lying, or... well, there isn't really a third option.

Anthony Stewart5 said:Since 1979, the city of Cleveland has offered an all-day school program, a model that isn't universally available in every district. This initiative has been executed with remarkable success for over forty years, providing a structured environment where children remain on campus from 8:00 AM until 4:00 PM at the latest. Specifically designed for the younger grades, the program ensures that every classroom is staffed by two teachers, allowing for a seamless integration of academic instruction and enriching leisure activities that children truly enjoy.

It is difficult to grasp what this individual could possibly hope to achieve by proposing such a concept, given that a system nearly identical to his vision is already successfully established right here in America.

I know everyone is busy finishing things up in that hyper-progressive, proactive, and "alternative" version of Cleveland🙄 but to me, this sounds just as nonsensical as that Fuch project.
Basically, NO to keeping kids in an institution all day. Especially NOT after second grade. It simply can't be "fantastic," even if the teachers are the most enthusiastic people on earth and the schedule is perfectly organized. Kids need to learn how to be alone, how to become independent, how to manage their own time, how to deal with boredom, and how to handle their responsibilities without adults constantly hovering over them.
Children have a right, and a genuine need, to just be quiet and peaceful, without constant interaction with twenty-five other people all day long.
Full-day schooling just produces incapable, helpless children. God help us.

Sarah Hall53 said:I’m right there with you—I hate doing homework with my kids.
And guess what? I don't do it. He does it himself. Whatever happens, happens. If he gets seriously stuck, he might come to me, but that's happening less and less lately because my first three responses are always the same: "Read the question again." Once he’s read it for the fourth time and still doesn't get it, then—and only then—am I willing to step in. Usually, though, he doesn't even bother coming back until he's read it four times, and since he isn't slow and has a decent grasp of basic American math, he usually realizes what he missed by the third reading.

The only time I really jump in is if they get one of those research projects—just enough to help him refine his search terms so we aren't spinning our wheels, you know? He does the actual searching, reads the results, and interprets everything on his own. Or, if they're using some new app and he needs to figure out how to navigate the interface.

For anything else? Well, I did my time. Between twelve years as a student and my morning sessions as a teacher today, I feel like I've paid my dues. I’m not about to bring the whole school experience home with me.😉

It feels like I'm reading my own thoughts here.🤣

mistyfalcon3 said:@Mad Hatter I don't have kids myself, but I frequently hear stories from a colleague of mine who does—she’s got one in second grade and another in fifth. She spends her entire afternoon hovering over them, drilling in homework and lessons. On top of that, there's this constant stream of instructions being blasted out by their teacher through various group chats. It makes me wonder: how is a child ever supposed to develop any sense of independence when you're constantly spoon-feeding them every single piece of information? 🕺

Your colleague sounds a bit misguided, I suppose.

I think everything should be looked at on an individual basis, and we really ought to respect people's choice to participate.

Back in the day, my former colleagues learned Italian from their grandmothers—who actually grew up in Italy, back when things were different. I guess if you compare the value of sitting through a full day of school versus just hanging out with your grandma while she teaches you a language, the latter might have its perks.

One of my colleagues used to work through her high school math homework, specifically set theory, with her father, who was a mechanical engineer. He would always point out how much set theory actually matters to the philosophy of mathematics.
In high school, they didn't really teach that specific part of math with much creativity. So, maybe there's some real value in working through your assignments alongside someone who actually knows their stuff.

It says here that any school signing up for this pilot program will receive $300,000 to cover implementation costs. I mean, realistically, that’s not a small amount of money—it's significant—but my question is how exactly a school or a principal intends to account for every single cent of that funding? For what, specifically? Does it mention any concrete details or actual ideas? It would have to be used in the interest of the school, the teachers, and the students, I suppose.

Thinking about adding another floor? 🙂

hiddendriver34 said:Thinking about adding another floor? 🙂

Well, I suppose that’s a possibility. In my area, they actually added a whole prefab section to the local high school just to handle the after-school programs.
They could add floors, expand the campus, put in a cafeteria or kitchen, maybe even a gym... basically any kind of construction.
If the school actually has the space—and more importantly, if there's extra funding available—what else could they do?
I ask because, from what I understand about how these government grants work, if they don't spend every cent on the designated purpose, they have to pay it all back. That seems to be how those projects usually play out.
Air conditioning?

They aren't allowed to touch anything that requires a building permit

zoks said:You don't necessarily need to be part of some elite club. Common sense, a solid work ethic, and actually caring about the subject matter are usually enough.

I guess there’s also a bit of natural talent involved for certain majors. I don't really believe everyone can breeze through any degree, especially not within a reasonable timeframe.

All this debating over which college is "harder" feels pretty pointless to me. Some programs just require more sheer hours of labor than others. A major becomes difficult if you have zero interest in the field and it feels like a chore. Plus, you have to factor in the professors who just enjoy making life miserable during exams. That can definitely make things harder if you run into a few of them.

@Lavore

Yeah, maybe grandparents help out occasionally. With my friends, most of their kids' grandparents are either still working or just barely retired. They have lives too. And honestly, some of them don't even live in the same state.

Back to the topic, $300,000 isn't actually as massive a sum as people think. It's probably just enough to install new windows and AC in a mid-sized high school, or maybe do some renovations on a gym or the bathrooms.

mellowskipper said:It says here that any school signing up for this pilot program will receive $300,000 to cover implementation costs. I mean, realistically, that’s not a small amount of money—it's significant—but my question is how exactly a school or a principal intends to account for every single cent of that funding? For what, specifically? Does it mention any concrete details or actual ideas? It would have to be used in the interest of the school, the teachers, and the students, I suppose.

Just handing it out to cousins and buddies through rigged school procurement contracts.🤷
They could easily find ways to squeeze out every last penny.😬

Quincy:

The funding is designated for projects that don't require building permits, including: expanding and equipping the existing school kitchen expanding and equipping the existing cafeteria renovating and furnishing extra space for after-school programs adding equipment to classrooms, labs, and vocational workshops to support educational programs upgrading teacher workspaces and faculty lounges renovating and upgrading school playgrounds or gymnasiums updating and improving existing restrooms improving HVAC and air conditioning systems throughout the school furnishing multi-purpose rooms.

I was scrolling through some old photos of my elementary school online. They still have those massive, old-fashioned windows that tilt open. It’s not a huge building—just a ground floor and one upper level. Honestly, if they just replaced all that window framing, a good chunk of that money would be gone right there. On top of that, they've got six student restrooms (two in the gym, two on the first floor, and two upstairs) plus two for the teachers. Naturally, there's no AC, and given how the building is positioned, they really should put some units in the gym at least. Just addressing those things would eat up a decent part of that $300k budget. With how much contractors charge these days, that money disappears fast. And since everything has to be done by the book with taxes included, you can't cut corners. Like, a tile guy isn't charging $2.00 a square foot anymore; it's more like $2.50 once you factor everything in.

Adam Diaz67 said:I was scrolling through some old photos of my elementary school online. They still have those massive, old-fashioned windows that tilt open. It’s not a huge building—just a ground floor and one upper level. Honestly, if they just replaced all that window framing, a good chunk of that money would be gone right there. On top of that, they've got six student restrooms (two in the gym, two on the first floor, and two upstairs) plus two for the teachers. Naturally, there's no AC, and given how the building is positioned, they really should put some units in the gym at least. Just addressing those things would eat up a decent part of that $300k budget. With how much contractors charge these days, that money disappears fast. And since everything has to be done by the book with taxes included, you can't cut corners. Like, a tile guy isn't charging $2.00 a square foot anymore; it's more like $2.50 once you factor everything in.

On top of that, prices can sometimes be negotiated before the public bidding process is finalized, so things could end up being even pricier.🧐
We were actually chatting on another thread about how some schools aren't allowed to install AC, and honestly, those kids are going to have a blast sitting in class all day long.🤣

As for the bathrooms... I know plenty of kids who are embarrassed to even use the restroom at school. For all sorts of reasons. There are adults like that too. It’s just the nature of public restrooms; if they don't absolutely have to go, they won't. Since they’re only in school for maybe 5 or 6 hours now, they just hold it in. And that’s true regardless of whether the bathrooms are clean or smell okay. So, even if they pour a ton of money into them (and let's face it, $300,000 might not even be enough), they’ll probably still choose to suffer through it for hours.
Though, since breaks are getting longer, maybe the kids will just sprint home during those 10 or 40 minutes.🤦
Or maybe not, since they aren't even allowed to leave campus to run to the local bakery anymore.

Honestly, being expelled from high school is just a complete mess to me.🙏

rowdypanther12 said:Honestly, being expelled from high school is just a complete mess to me.🙏

I get that... it’s mostly about the fear of something happening to them while they're on vacation. Once they’re back in school—whether they're on the early shift or the afternoon session—everything feels much more predictable and safe. It's hard not to worry when they're away from their usual routine.

Just imagine—they aren't even letting them out early now while school wraps up around 1 or 2 in the afternoon. I can't help but wonder how much more chaotic things are going to get once they switch to those full days ending at 5:00 PM. It’s going to be quite the adjustment!
It really hits home when you look at how some kids are stuck with whatever happens to be sitting on the kitchen counter instead of having actual meals prepared for them. Beyond just the lack of basic nutrition, there's a massive gap in meeting their fundamental needs. If you factor in sleep deprivation—because they’re up at 7:00 AM, getting home around 5:30 PM, and then juggling extracurriculars on top of that—how are they ever supposed to focus in class? It’s nearly impossible to sit still and actually learn when you're running on empty. 🤔)
The guy who wrote the code probably hasn't even laid eyes on the kids he's designing this for.

I did a little digging on Google to check out everyone on the task force, and it looks like most of them are current school district employees, while the rest are coming from various research institutes.
And there isn't even a psychologist on hand.

I honestly don't even know where to start. My mom was totally on board with the idea until I sat her down and asked her about five or six practical questions. 😁
At first glance, it sounds great, especially to parents who aren't dealing with tweens or teens right now.
The concept of having a dedicated space for kids to study, finish homework, and just hang out together isn't bad at all. It levels the playing field for kids coming from crowded homes with tons of siblings or those struggling with basic things like reliable heating...
In theory, turning schools into community hubs—kind of like an after-school program at the YMCA or a local Boys & Girls Club—is a solid idea. 😁
But making it mandatory? Even under perfect circumstances, that approach is just a disaster.

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't even know where to start. My mom was totally on board with the idea until I sat her down and asked her about five or six practical questions. 😁
At first glance, it sounds great, especially to parents who aren't dealing with tweens or teens right now.
The concept of having a dedicated space for kids to study, finish homework, and just hang out together isn't bad at all. It levels the playing field for kids coming from crowded homes with tons of siblings or those struggling with basic things like reliable heating...
In theory, turning schools into community hubs—kind of like an after-school program at the YMCA or a local Boys & Girls Club—is a solid idea. 😁
But making it mandatory? Even under perfect circumstances, that approach is just a disaster.

Look, providing hot meals at school is a fantastic idea. But let's be real, it hasn't even gained much traction in the three months since it was proposed. It would be fair if the Department of Education released a public list of which schools are offering hot meals for grades 1 through 8 so interested students can find them. They should also disclose how many meals are covered by the federal budget (at about $1.40 per meal) versus how many parents are expected to pay for.
That should be a publicly accessible document, since we’re all paying for it through our taxes!

The idea of having teachers available for tutoring in every subject is wonderful—assuming those teachers are actually great at what they do.
But there's more to it.

It’s a great idea to offer extra help for students who are genuinely interested in a subject or want to dive deeper than the standard curriculum. However, it's incredibly hard to provide specialized instruction for every single subject, and you have to wonder how many teachers are actually willing and able to do that. On the flip side, there are already plenty of private organizations and local clubs out there offering these kinds of activities, though they do charge a fee. Personally, I think it's better for the government to give parents vouchers for those existing programs (which keeps those jobs active) rather than wasting tax dollars on unmotivated teachers in schools. Plus, it prevents mixing kids who desperately need remedial help with gifted students at the exact same time—especially during the hours when they should be reviewing core material or finishing their homework. Honestly, only Hermione could pull off managing 500 students in one school with a magic watch.

The notion of kids working on their homework at their own pace in a cozy, well-designed space—think couches, armchairs, bright but soundproofed rooms filled with plants and warm colors—is lovely. Or even just having a warm, safe place to wait while they're between music lessons or waiting for sports practice.

Yeah, people who haven't actually read the proposal often wonder why anyone is complaining.
But as soon as you drop a few facts on them, they immediately try to turn the tables.

For starters, parents who are happy with PAC don't realize that with full-day schooling, kids won't just have one teacher; they'll effectively have two. And they have no clue how that impacts specialized subject instruction.
As soon as you mention that, they go quiet.