All-day school schedules

Susan James said:I mean, tech professionals are definitely going to head for the exits.
And there is absolutely no way this attracts any new talent.

Do you really think anyone wants to work part-time with a fragmented schedule from 8 to 3, just waiting around for some elective class at 3:30 PM for three or four exhausted students who are only doing robotics because their parents forced them to?

Computer science majors? Please—in my school, there’s only one actual specialist. Just one RN teacher who happens to teach an advanced computer science elective.

It’s been the same old story for years now—they roll out these job openings every five months like clockwork, and honestly, it’s getting a bit predictable.

Adam Diaz67 said:

I guess I might be overthinking this, maybe. Just some thoughts on the situation. Adam Diaz67 says:
Computer science teachers are going to leave regardless; they don't need full-time classes for that. I mean, who would actually teach elementary school IT with a relevant degree when you consider what they could be making elsewhere?🤣
The whole day's practice is just going to be about watching people drift away from school, but they'll leave on their own terms. It won't be because some idiot bully makes them feel like they don't belong.

People like my cousin, who genuinely loves working with kids and isn't driven by the paycheck—her husband is a really successful real estate attorney out in California, after all. Beyond just loving the job, the schedule works perfectly for her, especially with all that summer break. And she’s not the only one, either. I know a few other people who could easily make way more money in the private sector, but they stick with teaching because they love being around the kids and value having so much free time.

I'm one of those people—but you have to realize that a lot of what people perceive as "teacher perks" has already evaporated over the years.

But then again, that's true for pretty much any profession. My uncle used to be a big deal in a major municipal department back during the old days in the South. He had two secretaries and an official Ford😁

I'll never forget how he'd roll in at 3:00 PM and spend the rest of his afternoon playing cards or grabbing drinks with friends. No cell phones (since they didn't exist in the '80s), no constant digital nagging—just a really decent, dignified lifestyle.

Fast forward to today, and someone in that exact same role (I know a guy) is likely juggling 50 to 100 calls a day, a mountain of emails, and a grueling commute twice a week.

The whole landscape has just shifted. Everything is different now.

One of the few perks teachers actually get is the schedule and those long summer breaks. If they try to strip that away with these ridiculous ideas, well, good luck to them. You'll be left with the group that can't find anything better, the ones just counting down the years until retirement, and a handful of people who genuinely just love teaching.

I know someone who used to teach high school. She eventually started her own tutoring business, and honestly? Guess which one pays off more? 😁 After she covers all her taxes and business expenses, she’s clearing about $1,300 a month. Plus, she works from home, so there’s no commuting, no wasted time in traffic, and she just takes vacation whenever she feels like it. There's zero paperwork like at a public school, no pressure from parents, and none of the drama with principals or coworkers you don't get along with. People claim this model means kids won't need tutors anymore, but if you ask me, it just seems like they're going to need them more than ever.

Yeah, but once they switch to full-day schooling, I guess private tutoring won't be a thing anymore 🤣

Adam Diaz67 said:One of the few perks teachers actually get is the schedule and those long summer breaks. If they try to strip that away with these ridiculous ideas, well, good luck to them. You'll be left with the group that can't find anything better, the ones just counting down the years until retirement, and a handful of people who genuinely just love teaching.

I know someone who used to teach high school. She eventually started her own tutoring business, and honestly? Guess which one pays off more? 😁 After she covers all her taxes and business expenses, she’s clearing about $1,300 a month. Plus, she works from home, so there’s no commuting, no wasted time in traffic, and she just takes vacation whenever she feels like it. There's zero paperwork like at a public school, no pressure from parents, and none of the drama with principals or coworkers you don't get along with. People claim this model means kids won't need tutors anymore, but if you ask me, it just seems like they're going to need them more than ever.

Honestly, the humanities teachers will stick around simply because they have nowhere else to go.

I mean, what is someone who teaches Politics and the Economy—or an RN teacher—supposed to do in the private sector?

The STEM crowd is already gone (a former colleague of mine jumped ship to work as a math analyst at a major bank—don't even get me started on the salary and the benefits...) so they'll be replaced by language specialists (English, Spanish, French) and kinesiology majors (since, you know, they actually have marketable skills in the real world).

Everyone else will end up exactly how you described, unfortunately.

Susan James said:I feel like I've been typing away this whole time!
It honestly feels like it’s not even worth it anymore, even for those people who only take certain jobs because they offer a great work-life balance.
It’s not like there's a huge surplus of teachers specialized in advanced computer science right now. We just don't have enough people trained for those specific roles. Once they actually start pumping out more graduates with those credentials, we'll finally see that next wave of educational reform take shape. 🤦

Regarding the potential pay raises, Ford claims that anyone who decides to participate in the pilot program will see a 25% bump in their salary.
😬

I’m thinking we should go with a 25% bump on the base salary. Just a thought—nothing set in stone yet, obviously—but that feels like the right move.
So, if you switch everything over to the dollar—meaning, if you really go all out and take on every extra thing you possibly can—well, it changes the math. If you grab that heavy workload for the second-grade level, take on the homeroom teacher duties, and maybe pick up some of those B1 classes where you get more than eight students... you're looking at seeing about a 20% bump in your actual take-home pay. Just keep in mind, though—that extra cash doesn't count toward your Social Security or retirement funds. It’s just extra pocket money, really.

shadowtiger0 said:Honestly, the humanities teachers will stick around simply because they have nowhere else to go.

I mean, what is someone who teaches Politics and the Economy—or an RN teacher—supposed to do in the private sector?

The STEM crowd is already gone (a former colleague of mine jumped ship to work as a math analyst at a major bank—don't even get me started on the salary and the benefits...) so they'll be replaced by language specialists (English, Spanish, French) and kinesiology majors (since, you know, they actually have marketable skills in the real world).

Everyone else will end up exactly how you described, unfortunately.

It only takes the people with actual options leaving for the whole system to collapse.

Kate Jackson4 said:Even their scheduling won't work anymore

It's a given that most women flock to teaching because the lifestyle suits family life. If the husband pulls in a solid salary, working at a school means being home after four or five hours instead of eight, leaving plenty of time for domestic duties

But honestly, that perceived advantage over other careers is evaporating now that remote work and flexible hours are becoming standard everywhere
In my firm, anyone with young kids just works from home when they get sick. They don't even bother calling in sick; the boss knows they won't be at 100% capacity, but they'll hit at least 50%. It saves everyone the headache of finding coverage, and the essential tasks still get done—it’s a win-win for both the employer and the staff

If you have that kind of flexibility plus a 20% higher paycheck, why on earth would anyone choose teaching? You'd be working significantly less than an 8-to-3 shift, yet you're still hauling grading home and spending nights prepping lesson plans

It’s people like this—choosing a career solely based on how much free time they get—that prevent teachers from gaining any real professional respect in society. I want my kids being taught by true professionals, not just ladies who picked the job because their husbands make enough money to cover the bills.

shorter *flexible* hours.
I end up putting in way more than 40 hours most weeks—it’s just that half of it happens fluidly from my home office.
And honestly, I think that might be the very last thing left that makes a career in education even remotely appealing to talented people. (Let's be real, the pay definitely isn't doing it, and neither are the working conditions or the general respect you get from society.)
Do you think someone preferring that kind of flexible schedule is somehow unprofessional, or does that stigma only apply to teachers?

Paul Davis2 said:It’s people like this—choosing a career solely based on how much free time they get—that prevent teachers from gaining any real professional respect in society. I want my kids being taught by true professionals, not just ladies who picked the job because their husbands make enough money to cover the bills.

No, you clearly don't understand how a teacher's schedule actually works. Someone might have a high-earning spouse and still work themselves to the bone, especially since their actual classroom hours are barely compensated. With this reform, those wages are going to get even worse.

Take me, for example. I don't even *have* to work, but that doesn't mean anything to me—I don't believe in being dependent on a spouse. The only upside to my job while we're financially comfortable is not having to worry about survival. But even then, I've been working 16-hour days for the last five days straight just so I can finally take some actual time off to hit the mountains. I've had to prep everything, bring everything, and map out every single obligation waiting for me.

With your attitude, maybe you'd prefer if these women weren't burdened by the struggle to survive? Then they could just teach for fun because the shorter immediate workload suits them perfectly.

From the perspective of someone without financial struggles, let me tell you: I would happily work an 8-to-4 schedule with my own office and all the other duties that make up a 40-hour week. As it stands, I work anywhere from eight to twelve hours. It is very, very rare for my week to be any shorter than that.

In that scenario, I’d cover your imaginary 23 hours of classroom time, and I’d work the full-day shift too, but only for my specific classes. I wouldn't bother with being a homeroom teacher, and I certainly wouldn't chase after extra certifications or advanced levels. Physically, I can't do it, and frankly, I won't—not with the sheer amount of work my subject requires. If you want to do this job properly, you end up taking half of it home with you.

So, I’m out. I’ll prepare my transition and leave; staying isn't even a thought. I’m a humanist, and I’m not afraid of being unemployed because I have more real-world experience than I ever did dealing with government nonsense. There is always an exit. My husband and I are already looking at countries where, once I pass the language exams, I'd be hired as a teacher instantly. I've already started researching. Honestly, I wouldn't even need to do that; I could just go back to school for a PhD, vocational training, or whatever else takes my fancy.

Sarah Hall53 said:shorter *flexible* hours.
I end up putting in way more than 40 hours most weeks—it’s just that half of it happens fluidly from my home office.
And honestly, I think that might be the very last thing left that makes a career in education even remotely appealing to talented people. (Let's be real, the pay definitely isn't doing it, and neither are the working conditions or the general respect you get from society.)
Do you think someone preferring that kind of flexible schedule is somehow unprofessional, or does that stigma only apply to teachers?

Look, for actual professionals and high performers, this kind of reform isn't an issue. The real problem lies with people who choose a career outside their field and then act shocked when they aren't respected for it. It’s a bit like those old-school bureaucrats who thought tenure was a substitute for competence.

Are you even listening?
Look, Hagan, here’s a picture of what actual competence and professionalism look like. It’s me—and my closest circle of fellow teachers.
AND THIS ENTIRE REFORM IS A MASSIVE HEADACHE FOR ALL OF US.

And what is this nonsense about "choosing jobs outside of their field"? Honestly, like 90% of people working in education ARE specialists—they are actually doing the exact job they were trained for.

Paul Davis2 said:It’s people like this—choosing a career solely based on how much free time they get—that prevent teachers from gaining any real professional respect in society. I want my kids being taught by true professionals, not just ladies who picked the job because their husbands make enough money to cover the bills.

I guess most of those women teach because they actually love the job, not just because it was the best option available. The semi-flexible schedule and guaranteed long vacations are nice bonuses, sure. But picking a career based on having more free time isn't weird; plenty of people do it. They’ll take a smaller paycheck if it means more downtime. Honestly, a lot of American companies balance out lower salaries with remote work, flexible shifts, or extra PTO anyway.

Teachers can't get respect because society basically doesn't give a damn about them. They're underpaid, stripped of all authority, kids laugh in their faces, and parents actually threaten them. It’s a pretty motivating environment, I suppose. If you take away the last remaining perk of the job, you'll see how fast the whole system falls apart. Right now, the only thing keeping things going is the sheer enthusiasm of the teachers themselves.

Jose Wells3 said:No, you clearly don't understand how a teacher's schedule actually works. Someone might have a high-earning spouse and still work themselves to the bone, especially since their actual classroom hours are barely compensated. With this reform, those wages are going to get even worse.

Take me, for example. I don't even *have* to work, but that doesn't mean anything to me—I don't believe in being dependent on a spouse. The only upside to my job while we're financially comfortable is not having to worry about survival. But even then, I've been working 16-hour days for the last five days straight just so I can finally take some actual time off to hit the mountains. I've had to prep everything, bring everything, and map out every single obligation waiting for me.

With your attitude, maybe you'd prefer if these women weren't burdened by the struggle to survive? Then they could just teach for fun because the shorter immediate workload suits them perfectly.

From the perspective of someone without financial struggles, let me tell you: I would happily work an 8-to-4 schedule with my own office and all the other duties that make up a 40-hour week. As it stands, I work anywhere from eight to twelve hours. It is very, very rare for my week to be any shorter than that.

In that scenario, I’d cover your imaginary 23 hours of classroom time, and I’d work the full-day shift too, but only for my specific classes. I wouldn't bother with being a homeroom teacher, and I certainly wouldn't chase after extra certifications or advanced levels. Physically, I can't do it, and frankly, I won't—not with the sheer amount of work my subject requires. If you want to do this job properly, you end up taking half of it home with you.

So, I’m out. I’ll prepare my transition and leave; staying isn't even a thought. I’m a humanist, and I’m not afraid of being unemployed because I have more real-world experience than I ever did dealing with government nonsense. There is always an exit. My husband and I are already looking at countries where, once I pass the language exams, I'd be hired as a teacher instantly. I've already started researching. Honestly, I wouldn't even need to do that; I could just go back to school for a PhD, vocational training, or whatever else takes my fancy.

So, what’s the plan then—are you going to leave teaching behind to chase a PhD, or maybe just pick up some part-time gig? Or, you know, maybe you'll head overseas to work in a school where they actually call your husband by his name. I wonder how much time teachers over there actually spend physically being inside the school building.
I know exactly what goes into a school day and how teaching specializations are decided. I see firsthand how hard my colleagues work, how much effort I put in myself, and the level of dedication at the schools my kids attend—all while watching the lack of professionalism that seems to be creeping in everywhere.

Adam Diaz67 said:I guess most of those women teach because they actually love the job, not just because it was the best option available. The semi-flexible schedule and guaranteed long vacations are nice bonuses, sure. But picking a career based on having more free time isn't weird; plenty of people do it. They’ll take a smaller paycheck if it means more downtime. Honestly, a lot of American companies balance out lower salaries with remote work, flexible shifts, or extra PTO anyway.

Teachers can't get respect because society basically doesn't give a damn about them. They're underpaid, stripped of all authority, kids laugh in their faces, and parents actually threaten them. It’s a pretty motivating environment, I suppose. If you take away the last remaining perk of the job, you'll see how fast the whole system falls apart. Right now, the only thing keeping things going is the sheer enthusiasm of the teachers themselves.

Well, if the pay is $3667, then nobody will be underpaid.

So, a friend of mine just landed a gig abroad—working in a school over there. She spends about eight hours a day inside the school building, and she even has her own private office space. The best part? She doesn't bring a single scrap of paperwork home with her, and honestly, nobody even expects her to. Once those eight hours are up, she’s officially off the clock. Her workload is basically split down the middle—maybe 55% actual teaching and 45% lesson planning—with almost zero administrative headaches. And the pay? It’s roughly five times what we make here.

Paul Davis2 said:Well, if the pay is $3667, then nobody will be underpaid.

But honestly, who is even supposed to get that kind of salary under this half-baked reform idea? Maybe someone who only pulls 30 hours of direct classroom time a week, I guess.

Sarah Hall53 said:But honestly, who is even supposed to get that kind of salary under this half-baked reform idea? Maybe someone who only pulls 30 hours of direct classroom time a week, I guess.

Teachers in the school district are currently looking at 25.5 hours of direct instruction.

Sarah Hall53 said:So, a friend of mine just landed a gig abroad—working in a school over there. She spends about eight hours a day inside the school building, and she even has her own private office space. The best part? She doesn't bring a single scrap of paperwork home with her, and honestly, nobody even expects her to. Once those eight hours are up, she’s officially off the clock. Her workload is basically split down the middle—maybe 55% actual teaching and 45% lesson planning—with almost zero administrative headaches. And the pay? It’s roughly five times what we make here.

Exactly what this reform proposal is aiming for. Five times the salary? And no prep work at home? I have to wonder, though—what kind of school ignores all the paperwork? Who handles the grading and assessments? Is this woman working in New York City?

No, that’s just not how this reform proposal actually works—it doesn't include teacher lounges, or all that extra red tape nobody asked for, or some crazy five-fold pay raise either.