All-day school schedules

rowdypanther12 said:I actually think it’s a pretty decent idea for schools to act more like community hubs—somewhere you can just swing by in the afternoon to play some ping pong or chess, or find a quiet corner to get some schoolwork done if things are too chaotic at home or you just don't have your own space...
But keeping kids stuck in a classroom all day long? That's just overkill.
I honestly don't get how people miss the simple math here. If they're in class until 2 PM with short breaks, then add lunch and longer recesses, they might be there until 5 PM if they have an after-school club, but they aren't staying until 4 AM.

You can literally do all of that right now. For ping-pong, you just check if there's space available. We already provide those opportunities for kids who don't have a good environment at home, and there are more and more after-school programs popping up that function as study groups.

I’ve been reading up on how Estonia has actually overtaken Finland lately, and honestly, their school system feels incredibly familiar to what we have here in the States. They use an after-school program for the younger kids, just like our elementary schools, and children start first grade at age seven—though there's a specific rule that they need to be seven by October 1st of that school year to qualify. Interestingly, some of their schools offer split sessions (morning and afternoon shifts), which is more of an exception for them, whereas in our neck of the woods, that’s almost become the standard. Their academic year kicks off in September and wraps up in mid-June, totaling at least 35 weeks of instruction—which I think is pretty much the same timeframe we follow here, too. Plus, students get a daily meal that's largely subsidized by the state or local government; they're even starting to roll out breakfast options, usually something simple like oatmeal.
The real kicker, though, is the difference in preschool participation. In America, about 75% of kids head to preschool or daycare, but in Estonia, that number jumps all the way up to 94%.

I’d really love to see everyone weigh in on the public comment period. There are some seriously influential voices out there—why not take advantage of the chance to make yours heard where it actually counts?

Jose Wells3 said:I’d really love to see everyone weigh in on the public comment period. There are some seriously influential voices out there—why not take advantage of the chance to make yours heard where it actually counts?

Just my two cents. Honestly, obsessing over this forum feels like such a massive waste of energy. Maybe—and I'm just guessing here—they might actually listen if they see thousands of comments flooding in through the proper channels.

shadowtiger0 said:Look, I’ve never actually set foot in Finland, but they always seem to pop up whenever people start talking about education systems. Since I haven't personally experienced it, I take everything said about it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I have a much better grasp of the Swedish system, though—if you can call it that—and honestly, I don't know what to tell you... everyone loves to paint it as this "perfect" utopia, but once you actually sit down and grab a drink with some Swedes, you realize it isn't nearly as flawless as Americans tend to romanticize it.

As for full-day schooling, speaking both as a parent and a teacher, I see several massive red flags: 1. We simply don't have the infrastructure for it; 2. I really don't want my kid just "hanging out" at school all day; 3. We're already struggling with a shortage of quality staff, and this is just going to widen that gap even further; 4. The mountain of pointless paperwork it would create.

It’s the same story across the board—this whole setup is broken, and frankly, I have no idea how much longer we can keep limping along like this.

Sweden is basically where education goes to die; you can't even put them in the same sentence as Finland.

Jose Wells3 said:I’d really love to see everyone weigh in on the public comment period. There are some seriously influential voices out there—why not take advantage of the chance to make yours heard where it actually counts?

The public comment period wrapped up at midnight. We ended up with 2,761 comments.

Sarah Hall53 said:Sweden is basically where education goes to die; you can't even put them in the same sentence as Finland.

It is quite fascinating, really. During our presentations, they were constantly drawing parallels to the Swedish system—going so far as to claim that Swedish teachers are always beaming and happy despite working full-time schedules. 🙏
Then, out of nowhere, a woman spoke up whose sister actually lives in Sweden and whose nephews attend school there, and suddenly, the narrative shifted quite drastically...

I once knew this woman from Fort Myers who ended up marrying a Swede. Once she moved over there, she was working her tail off—studying the language, taking exams, and basically mapping out her entire career path all at once. Then, one day, she casually mentions to her husband that back in the States, she actually has the credentials to teach in a school, even though she’d never stepped foot in a classroom before. Her husband just looked at her and said, "Look, we aren't going to be so desperate for cash that I'm sending you off to work in a school... besides, if things ever get that bad, you could always clean apartment stairwells. The pay isn't much lower, but honestly? It’s a much more respected job."

Jason Morgan said:It is quite fascinating, really. During our presentations, they were constantly drawing parallels to the Swedish system—going so far as to claim that Swedish teachers are always beaming and happy despite working full-time schedules. 🙏
Then, out of nowhere, a woman spoke up whose sister actually lives in Sweden and whose nephews attend school there, and suddenly, the narrative shifted quite drastically...

They have a massive issue with staffing over there; you literally have people without any college degrees teaching specific subjects. Though, if we're being honest, we're heading down that exact same path here in the States.

The bottom line? Kids have become way too entitled and can basically do whatever they want, and frankly, nobody wants to work in education anymore.

I can give you an example from my own field. Last year, the secretary at a major high school in my city told me she could barely find a one-year substitute for maternity leave in PE. I was like, "Are you kidding? Surely there are math teachers available." She tells me: "There are, but they simply refuse to work in a school for such a tiny workload—and then after a year, they lose their position anyway." The pay is $1933. They could make just as much working four hours a week coaching at a local soccer club.

Back in my day, that would have been unthinkable. And don't even get me started on language instructors. If you're actually talented and articulate, you can cash in on those skills pretty easily elsewhere.

Take a look at the comments below—this woman is actually working as a professor over there, whereas back here in the States, she just finished up an economics degree.

Jose Wells3 said:You can literally do all of that right now. For ping-pong, you just check if there's space available. We already provide those opportunities for kids who don't have a good environment at home, and there are more and more after-school programs popping up that function as study groups.

Well, you actually can't—not in the way I was describing.
In our public schools, there’s nowhere to actually go and study. You can't just decide on a Tuesday afternoon that you want to head to campus to work on a project or find a quiet desk to sit at.
There aren't even common areas, let alone a lounge where kids could hang out to play billiards or ping-pong, play chess, or just sit and talk.
I wasn't talking about formal tutoring sessions where you show up for exactly 45 minutes; I meant having the school building open so that while classes happen in the morning, the library or the community center is open in the afternoon.

hiddendriver34 said:We had to start by laying down the groundwork first—fixing up the schools and getting them properly equipped. You can't even begin to talk about full-day programming until you've created the right physical space and provided the necessary resources. It’s just common sense.

That's exactly it.

They introduced this "free meal" program for about $1.50, which was supposed to be a hot lunch. In reality, it’s mostly just bread and some spread, and kids end up scarfing it down on the go because there isn't even enough seating.
There should be a public list of all the schools where the lunch program is actually working (and specifically those where parents aren't being hit with extra fees).

And don't even get me started on the "full-day school" concept. If they want kids there all day, they need to provide daily PE classes, not just two hours a week—and right now, they don't even have the gym space for that.

They’re going to implement these 20-minute "recess breaks"—and honestly, nobody has any clue who’s actually supposed to be watching them or how this is even going to work—so it’ll probably just turn into total chaos in the hallways. You'll have the little kids running around like headless chickens while the older students try to defy the laws of physics by cramming fifty people into a three-stall restroom at once.

Sarah Hall53 said:The public comment period wrapped up at midnight. We ended up with 2,761 comments.

Jose Wells3 said:I’d really love to see everyone weigh in on the public comment period. There are some seriously influential voices out there—why not take advantage of the chance to make yours heard where it actually counts?

Of course I posted over there too. Out of that total comment count, three of them were mine.

hiddendriver34 said:We had to start by laying down the groundwork first—fixing up the schools and getting them properly equipped. You can't even begin to talk about full-day programming until you've created the right physical space and provided the necessary resources. It’s just common sense.

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Sarah Hall53 said:The public comment period wrapped up at midnight. We ended up with 2,761 comments.

About two-thirds of those comments were either straight-up hating on the reform or just saying the whole thing is garbage.

I highly doubt they're actually gonna listen to any of it.

There are plenty of them—articulate, well-spoken, and making actual sense. If they actually look at the facts instead of just doing whatever the Secretary dictates, they’ll have something worth considering.

hiddendriver34 said:We had to start by laying down the groundwork first—fixing up the schools and getting them properly equipped. You can't even begin to talk about full-day programming until you've created the right physical space and provided the necessary resources. It’s just common sense.

But you know as well as I do that after countless attempts at education reform in this country, not a single one has ever actually felt meaningful or logically built from the ground up. It’s either top-down nonsense or just superficial window dressing.
I guess the reason is that they never bother asking the people actually working within the system. Instead, it’s always some revolving door of various Secretaries who have never stepped foot in an American classroom and don't have the slightest clue how things work on the ground; they just seem more interested in securing funding or grabbing headlines. 🤮
It’s like the kids and the educators themselves don't matter at all.

Remember when everyone was hyping up CNN, then the Looney Tunes stuff, then that "life lessons" thing... none of that ever actually went anywhere.

And this? Won't happen either.

Of course it won't be.
I suppose I just feel bad that such a massive amount of money constantly goes down the drain or just sort of vanishes into thin air, without anyone actually getting anything useful out of it.