All-day school schedules

nimblelynx7 said:This is a fundamental failure to understand the law—honestly, it’s a failure to understand the job itself.
The Education Act and its various regulations clearly outline what a teacher can and cannot do, along with student rights and obligations. It explicitly defines powers, duties, and responsibilities. You just have to be able to read.

Take a closer look at the details and let me know when you’d be willing to sign off on this. While you're at it, dive into the grading criteria handbook and those pedagogical guidelines. Honestly, you have to ask yourself: what is the point of a policy if it remains nothing more than dead ink on a page?

mellowskipper said:I was under the impression that you guys already had that in place? Or maybe I'm just mistaken—it feels like something that should have been settled by now, I guess.

Why not? I mean—if my memory serves me right—they have those resources available in healthcare, and I believe social services have them too. Maybe.

That’s how it works—you get a heavier penalty, and you don't even have to file a private lawsuit; it always goes through an official report to the authorities.

You don't actually gain any real authority just by holding that status. Maybe you pick up a few extra obligations since you're technically an official around the clock—it’s a bit of a double-edged sword, I guess. For instance, if you happen to commit some kind of misdemeanor, you’re essentially committing it in your capacity as a public official. It's a messy way to live, really.

Let them come. I’d be more than willing to shoulder the weight of those violations—not that it would be any heavier than what I already carry, being responsible for people's safety in high-risk, rugged terrain. It wouldn't weigh me down. What matters to me is that official proceedings actually get launched. And that there’s real protection in place.

Two thousand? Please. For us, anything under a thousand is just the baseline. Most people don't even come close to that mark. As for me, I couldn't care less about climbing the corporate ladder in this system. Why would I want to join that circus of clowns, letting them "evaluate" my worth just so I can collect their little badges? No thanks.

Adam Diaz67 said:It's a bit off-topic, but just to answer you. 🙂

In Asia, especially in China. Teachers and professors are actually quite highly valued there. They are among the only ones who receive a full 100% salary pension. Even above the military, since soldiers get 80%. But they truly value knowledge and education there. Granted, they haven't stripped professors of all their disciplinary authority either. But that's a whole different world. Also, for the first two grades, it's 4 hours of PE, then 3 hours after that. And now they're introducing mandatory daily PE for all 9 grades in compulsory school.

https://english.news.cn/20220525/3de...51fcd7a/c.html

Back to the main point. Both parents and teachers would probably complain less if schools actually had decent infrastructure to start with, and if they were paid properly—or at least given total freedom once they finish their schoolwork at home. Right now, it just looks like everything is slapped together hastily just so they can spend federal funds and claim they're doing something.

I was over in Asia back in 2005. Honestly, though? We aren't cut from the same cloth as them—it's a totally different mindset.

Yeah, teachers there are serious, but man, they are genuinely respected.

Jose Wells3 said:"Go Fuchs yourself" would actually make a great swear word 🤣

I haven't caught up on everything yet, but I did catch a glimpse of little Ivica.

Look, to make it easy for you to understand: in special education, we aren't dealing with some kind of elite, specialized faculty. We’re just regular teachers with incredibly poor training. We don't even have speech therapists, psychologists, or developmental specialists on staff; we're lucky if we even get a social worker. We handle this as an add-on to our regular curriculum and combined classes. For most of us, it's just pure survival mode. I was lucky enough to land a supervision program so I don't completely lose my mind, along with some psychiatric training and support.

Little Ivica doesn't scream anymore; now he just has these fits of laughter, delusions, tics... honestly, little Ivica doesn't even exist in a classroom alongside four other kids with their own intense struggles, especially when the parents REFUSE to acknowledge it. They reject having a one-on-one aide. Before they even realized how serious their child's condition actually was, they were busy blaming the school for everything. He once hit me in the head with his fist because I stopped him from jumping off a landing—using a grip I learned while working with kids with severe intellectual disabilities—and then he claimed I provoked him. That was it.

How am I supposed to teach them until they're fifteen? I can barely get them to follow a basic structure or respect boundaries. I struggle just to get some of them to speak at all due to specific types of autism. Now, we're expected to keep them in these programs until they're fifteen? Seventeen?

Just recently, one student tried to jump out of a second-story window. Ivica jumped right through a first-floor window and bolted into the woods.

For God's sake, the other students in the mainstream classes are watching all of this happen. And we work with regular classrooms too. Is anyone even asking how a pay increase for extra hours will help offset the toll this takes on me?

We’ve got little Isaac extorting little Peter for $100 that Peter stole from his parents. Then there's Isaac offering girls money for favors and sending explicit photos to the class group chat. There’s Isaac3, there's an unknown culprit who smashed a toilet in the West Wing, and Isaac4 who was setting things on fire in the bathroom. Then there are the older Isaacs from 7th grade who almost got into a brawl with the Isaacs from 8th grade—we only found out by pure luck. The worst part? One of the Isaacs had a switchblade ready for the fight. The police were called. It was a whole thing.👎
I think the stress level you deal with in afternoon shifts is well beyond the capacity of an average human being.

Jose Wells3 said:Take a closer look at the details and let me know when you’d be willing to sign off on this. While you're at it, dive into the grading criteria handbook and those pedagogical guidelines. Honestly, you have to ask yourself: what is the point of a policy if it remains nothing more than dead ink on a page?

Let them come. I’d be more than willing to shoulder the weight of those violations—not that it would be any heavier than what I already carry, being responsible for people's safety in high-risk, rugged terrain. It wouldn't weigh me down. What matters to me is that official proceedings actually get launched. And that there’s real protection in place.

Two thousand? Please. For us, anything under a thousand is just the baseline. Most people don't even come close to that mark. As for me, I couldn't care less about climbing the corporate ladder in this system. Why would I want to join that circus of clowns, letting them "evaluate" my worth just so I can collect their little badges? No thanks.

Then go ahead and look for it. But strictly through the professional association, an organization, or a union. First, there needs to be a staff survey to see if everyone is actually on board. If more than half are in favor, then... go for it.

Paul Davis2 said:The sixth period—if you count both small and large breaks—not to mention pre-periods and post-periods. Then there's tutoring, extra credit, and electives. It’s morning, it’s afternoon, and usually without access to a gym or even a free hot meal.
Let's get real here: kids today are basically living at school. They deal with rotating shifts and the obligation to show up for the opposite session whenever the schedule flips.

Kids actually aren't stuck in school all day right now.
They are, if they choose to be.
Tutoring, enrichment, and extracurriculars aren't mandatory.
But they will be soon.

The reason kids don't sign up for extra tutoring or enrichment is simple:
First, they grasp everything during regular class time, so they don't need extra explanations.
Second, if the teacher isn't great during the regular lesson, they probably won't magically become a better explainer during the extra sessions (and there usually isn't enough capacity for advanced classes anyway).
Third, at home, they've got mom, dad, grandma, or a sibling... people who can and want to help explain the material.
Finally, kids participate in outside activities based on their own talents and interests—things the school doesn't offer—and they don't want to lose precious time to extra schoolwork to do that.

Looking at your post, I don't think you quite grasp this "reform" or the actual concept being offered. We really need to focus on providing free meals for every student and building more gyms and classrooms before we start talking about making extra tutoring and enrichment mandatory for everyone.
Those programs are already available to students; I just laid out why they aren't choosing them.

My kid usually just naps during religious studies. Under this reform, I'd probably have to give a lecture on world history myself, because someone decided kids need an equal workload, or perhaps schools are just aggressively pushing religion into the schedule, leaving kids to sit in the library instead.
Honestly, we just need to fix the scheduling (which is doable) rather than cutting subjects entirely just to make sure everyone has an identical workload.

stormymarlin22 said:The sixth period runs until about 1:05 PM. Electives, supplements, or extra credits aren't mandatory. That’s kind of the whole point—if you don't want to take them, you don't have to. My kid never had to deal with afternoon classes back in elementary school. They'd be home by 1:30, and by the time they would've been getting out now, around 3:00 or 3:30, they'd already eaten and chilled out for a bit. 🤷

I feel the same way.
They eat at home. All you have to do is prep the food, which is actually a pretty vital life skill to learn anyway.

Paul Davis2 said:In my town, your kid would actually get reprimanded for skipping gym, and let's face it—nobody is skipping computer science in the 21st century. Honestly, it sounds like you hit the jackpot having such a great school with an on-site gym and a schedule that fits perfectly. You're lucky. And clearly, they managed to eat, too.

Do you honestly think this reform is going to change things at your kid's school? 🤦 😕 🤦

It definitely won't happen next year, because based on what you're describing, the school doesn't even have the resources to apply for those programs.
Besides, everything you're bringing up can be handled through the PTA or the local school board... waiting on the Department of Education to fix it all is just wishful thinking.
Because they won't.
I wouldn't be surprised if they just cram everyone into one shift in some cramped, makeshift classrooms just to keep kids there all day... all to satisfy certain European Union scheduling standards so they don't have to rotate shifts.
You’ll probably be happy with it, but parents working rotating shifts likely won't see their kids much, but hey, who cares? As long as they crush it on the international standardized tests, right?

(By the way, during the consultations, teachers were mentioning other tests besides just the SATs, and our students are actually doing quite well on them. It’s kind of a miracle we're seeing success despite the current state of the school system...)

I honestly don't get how people miss the point here. If we implement this reform where kids are in school "all day" by adding more breaks and extending class hours—plus making those extra credit sessions mandatory—they’re actually going to be stuck at school even LONGER.

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't get how people miss the point here. If we implement this reform where kids are in school "all day" by adding more breaks and extending class hours—plus making those extra credit sessions mandatory—they’re actually going to be stuck at school even LONGER.

It’s probably because someone fed them the idea that our students spend less time in class than kids in the European Union.
And since they’re basing everything on what first and second graders are doing, they’re using the wrong yardstick entirely.

Susan James said:It’s probably because someone fed them the idea that our students spend less time in class than kids in the European Union.
And since they’re basing everything on what first and second graders are doing, they’re using the wrong yardstick entirely.

I mean, if they want that for elementary school, fine, but I really don't get how anyone thinks it's a good idea to keep a 12-year-old in class until 4 PM. 🤷

rowdypanther12 said:I mean, if they want that for elementary school, fine, but I really don't get how anyone thinks it's a good idea to keep a 12-year-old in class until 4 PM. 🤷

It’s not that they actually think it's a good idea. Don't overthink it.
A lot of parents just focus on their own kids and lose sight of the bigger picture.

The people drafting these proposals are really just looking for ways to grab more funding from the European Union.
They need parental buy-in, so they try to convince everyone that this is how things work in Europe and that our kids aren't spending enough time in class.
And some parents fall for it; they hope that by signing off on full-day schooling, they'll get free hot meals, better facilities, and less homework for their kids. But that's not going to happen—they'll just lower the standards. The real question is what kind of actual knowledge our kids will have when they finally graduate.

(There's plenty of other stuff in the curriculum that desperately needs fixing, but they won't touch that.)

Whatever you guys say—we’re heading straight there anyway. We always seem to be trailing behind the West by about five to ten years—whether that’s actually a good thing or a disaster remains to be seen—but this is already old news over there.

If you honestly believe anyone gives a damn about what professors are writing or thinking—well, you’re dead wrong. This is happening out there, and we’re just catching up.

shadowtiger0 said:Whatever you guys say—we’re heading straight there anyway. We always seem to be trailing behind the West by about five to ten years—whether that’s actually a good thing or a disaster remains to be seen—but this is already old news over there.

If you honestly believe anyone gives a damn about what professors are writing or thinking—well, you’re dead wrong. This is happening out there, and we’re just catching up.

Actually, I’d say we’re trailing the West by closer to fifty years.
And during those fifty years, the West has basically been hugging our experts and paying them top dollar because they can't find enough talent at home.

Sadly, nobody cares what the professors have to say. It all started when the lead author and advocate for this whole initiative leaked a press release during the very first day of consultations. She claimed that while kids in the West are busy learning to code, our kids are being forced to focus on rote memorization. So, after two thousand comments on the consultation site, we’ll probably end up with maybe two hours of computer science. Because apparently, that's what "everyone" asked for, and it's the only flaw in the entire proposal.
So, kids will just spend more time sitting in classrooms.
The real question is who they'll be working with and what they'll actually be doing.
But nobody seems to care about that. They’re just looking at the total number of hours spent in school. Adults just love staring at statistics...

And what about those claims—what do you mean, fifty years behind? It’s like we’re still stuck in the seventies. Do you guys ever actually leave the house?

Trust me, I'm not lagging as much as you think. I've traveled extensively and lived abroad quite a bit myself.

Besides, "lagging behind" doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Our experts head overseas all the time, and it isn't just a pursuit of a bigger paycheck—there are plenty of different reasons for it.

Even Vietnam isn't trailing the West by that many decades, let alone us. Let's try not to speak without knowing the facts.

shadowtiger0 said:And what about those claims—what do you mean, fifty years behind? It’s like we’re still stuck in the seventies. Do you guys ever actually leave the house?

Trust me, I'm not lagging as much as you think. I've traveled extensively and lived abroad quite a bit myself.

Besides, "lagging behind" doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Our experts head overseas all the time, and it isn't just a pursuit of a bigger paycheck—there are plenty of different reasons for it.

Even Vietnam isn't trailing the West by that many decades, let alone us. Let's try not to speak without knowing the facts.

Sarcasm?
Do I really need to point out the irony here? We’re constantly being told how much we need to catch up to the West, yet that very same West is busy recruiting our best experts left and right. It makes you wonder—where exactly are they all heading?

I travel quite a bit myself, and honestly, we both deal with international clients constantly in our lines of work. Plus, we have plenty of friends who have moved abroad, so staying connected globally is just part of life for us.

The sunshine out here in the West isn't quite what everyone makes it out to be. It’s definitely different from how people describe it!
It’s not like you can just grab any plant from the West and expect it to thrive once you bring it home. Between the local climate, the specific growing conditions, and all the extra maintenance required, it's definitely not that simple!
It’s the exact same story when you look at the education system.

@shadowtiger0, if we're talking about full-day schooling, then we’re lagging behind by at least fifty years. Out in the West, they actually rolled out all-day programs back in the sixties and seventies.

The real kicker is that while we're trying to catch up, much of the West is actually moving in the opposite direction—they're trending toward shorter work weeks and placing a much higher premium on leisure time. Look at Finland; they consistently top the charts in education, yet they don't push for full-day schedules. Their students spend roughly the same amount of time in class as we do. There's a real risk here: while we’re busy extending school hours just to mimic the West, the West might decide to scale back their hours and end up looking more like us. 😬

It’s not really the concept of full-day schooling that's the issue, but rather how they're actually pulling it off.
If they had prioritized fixing up the public schools first, implemented one-way shifts, and made the afternoon sessions optional for those who actually want to be there, I don't think people would be complaining so much.
The real headache remains with the local school districts and certain sports clubs that are already overcapacity and running on shifts, though I'm sure there are ways to work around that.

What we have right now is just a mess. Expecting teenagers to stay stuck in a classroom until 4:00 PM if they want extra help is a disaster.
There’s absolutely no balance left for studying, hanging out, or playing sports.

rowdypanther12 said:It’s not really the concept of full-day schooling that's the issue, but rather how they're actually pulling it off.
If they had prioritized fixing up the public schools first, implemented one-way shifts, and made the afternoon sessions optional for those who actually want to be there, I don't think people would be complaining so much.
The real headache remains with the local school districts and certain sports clubs that are already overcapacity and running on shifts, though I'm sure there are ways to work around that.

What we have right now is just a mess. Expecting teenagers to stay stuck in a classroom until 4:00 PM if they want extra help is a disaster.
There’s absolutely no balance left for studying, hanging out, or playing sports.

If they had done it that way, nobody would be making a fuss.

Look, I’ve never actually set foot in Finland, but they always seem to pop up whenever people start talking about education systems. Since I haven't personally experienced it, I take everything said about it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I have a much better grasp of the Swedish system, though—if you can call it that—and honestly, I don't know what to tell you... everyone loves to paint it as this "perfect" utopia, but once you actually sit down and grab a drink with some Swedes, you realize it isn't nearly as flawless as Americans tend to romanticize it.

As for full-day schooling, speaking both as a parent and a teacher, I see several massive red flags: 1. We simply don't have the infrastructure for it; 2. I really don't want my kid just "hanging out" at school all day; 3. We're already struggling with a shortage of quality staff, and this is just going to widen that gap even further; 4. The mountain of pointless paperwork it would create.

It’s the same story across the board—this whole setup is broken, and frankly, I have no idea how much longer we can keep limping along like this.

I actually think it’s a pretty decent idea for schools to act more like community hubs—somewhere you can just swing by in the afternoon to play some ping pong or chess, or find a quiet corner to get some schoolwork done if things are too chaotic at home or you just don't have your own space...
But keeping kids stuck in a classroom all day long? That's just overkill.
I honestly don't get how people miss the simple math here. If they're in class until 2 PM with short breaks, then add lunch and longer recesses, they might be there until 5 PM if they have an after-school club, but they aren't staying until 4 AM.

We had to start by laying down the groundwork first—fixing up the schools and getting them properly equipped. You can't even begin to talk about full-day programming until you've created the right physical space and provided the necessary resources. It’s just common sense.