All-day school schedules

urbantinker8 said:I suppose I'm wondering what the actual point of your post is here?
I mean, are we really suggesting that because there might be three kids in a class without a desk, or four students whose parents can't quite grasp the curriculum, we should force tens of thousands of other kids into this seemingly pointless eight-hour daily grind in schools?
Your sense of altruism and concern for those in need occasionally seems to go a bit overboard, almost stepping on the rights of the majority, who aren't exactly needy in any way, I guess.
Then again, maybe that's just how modern social sensitivity works—it goes to these extremes where everyone starts fussing over one specific kid, and meanwhile, the other twenty-five kids in the classroom just have to suffer through it. If one kid can't manage his homework alone, then by that logic, the other twenty-five who are perfectly capable should just sit there until 4:00 PM so he doesn't feel left out or slighted, I suppose.🙄

The point I was making is simply that full-day schooling isn't bad for everyone; some students can actually benefit quite a bit from it.
As for the rest of your comment, I’d really appreciate it if we didn't turn this discussion into a personal attack.

wanderingbadger44 said:I hear you, but what’s the solution there? If that's the case, then we should specifically design programs tailored to support those students. It doesn't seem fair to force everyone to stay late just because Mary and Mark lack the right environment at home.

Actually, why not? I'm all for it. That's basically how after-school programs work anyway—it's optional for those who want it (or whose parents want it for them).

Michelle Nelson4 said:I find it absolutely fascinating that anyone could view mandatory "mentorship" with struggling students as a positive thing. Honestly, that was the exact reason I avoided taking any extra math courses—because there was this unspoken assumption that doing so meant I’d be stuck running remedial sessions to help out those who were falling behind. Even a twelve-year-old understands the futility of it; how are you supposed to approach someone who just doesn't get the concept and lacks the necessary foundational knowledge? It felt like such a massive waste of time for both me and the student, since there was simply nothing I could explain effectively. That experience alone was what 100% convinced me that teaching just wasn't the career path for me...

We didn't really have that happening here. I used to help out a few friends from different schools, but my memory is pretty fuzzy on the details—except for one girl where it wasn't even clear what the issue was; she probably just needed to focus better.

@Susan James, they used to be more organized about high school admissions back when a 4.5 GPA was the standard 😁
A friend of mine managed to get into her preferred prep school with a 4.4 😁

Lady Gaga, what kind of 12 or 13-year-old kid is actually going to get anything out of this?
I honestly can't picture it working. Even if they have five siblings at home, it’s still probably quieter than being stuck in a classroom with 25 other kids.

rowdypanther12 said:@Susan James, they used to be more organized about high school admissions back when a 4.5 GPA was the standard 😁
A friend of mine managed to get into her preferred prep school with a 4.4 😁

But they had entrance exams. Even now, those schools still require them for tenth graders.

rowdypanther12 said:@Susan James, they used to be more organized about high school admissions back when a 4.5 GPA was the standard 😁
A friend of mine managed to get into her preferred prep school with a 4.4 😁

Well, even with a 4.0, things vary. In my class, there were a few students who scraped by middle school with a 3.0. They weren't exactly academic superstars, but they didn't fail any grades either. It's quite different from some other groups... I remember in our sophomore year, we had about five or six fewer students in the class, between people repeating a grade or those who moved over to less demanding vocational programs.

jadetinker85 said:But they had entrance exams. Even now, those schools still require them for tenth graders.

There weren't any entrance exams when I was enrolling; those were only for specialized magnet schools.

rowdypanther12 said:@Susan James, they used to be more organized about high school admissions back when a 4.5 GPA was the standard 😁
A friend of mine managed to get into her preferred prep school with a 4.4 😁

I mean, let's be real—not every parent goes absolutely overboard trying to force their kids to be straight-A geniuses. Not everyone spends a fortune on private tutors, or tries to pull some shady stuff to buy grades through local ads, or starts threatening teachers to get a better mark...

The kids definitely made the most of those tutoring sessions.
Regarding the whole debate about blaming parents—honestly, I’d rather point the finger at the system itself. For years now, we've watched entrance requirements and enrollment thresholds skyrocket, yet nothing is being done to address it. That’s completely out of a parent's hands. So, naturally, they just focus on the one thing they actually can control.

rowdypanther12 said:Lady Gaga, what kind of 12 or 13-year-old kid is actually going to get anything out of this?
I honestly can't picture it working. Even if they have five siblings at home, it’s still probably quieter than being stuck in a classroom with 25 other kids.

Kids older than 9 or 10 aren't going to see any real benefit from this setup.

What we actually need is guaranteed after-school tutoring for every student who needs it—especially those teachers who basically mandate attendance or threaten them with unexcused absences if they don't show up. The schedule shouldn't just depend on how many regular classes a teacher happens to have in their rotation.

And we definitely need to provide extra support for subjects where teachers are sending kids off to compete. It shouldn't be a situation where kids are teaching themselves while the teacher just signs the paperwork because someone has to.
It would be wonderful to have elective enrichment programs focused on deepening knowledge (regardless of competitions). In my opinion, these shouldn't even be strictly divided by grade level; they should be based on interest and talent within a specific school district.

rowdypanther12 said:@Susan James, they used to be more organized about high school admissions back when a 4.5 GPA was the standard 😁
A friend of mine managed to get into her preferred prep school with a 4.4 😁

They still do it today. It’s not like they're picking the overachievers exclusively, but they definitely still enroll them.

Susan James said:They still do it today. It’s not like they're picking the overachievers exclusively, but they definitely still enroll them.

Come on, seriously—you don't necessarily need a 5.0 GPA, but I honestly can't think of a single school in Chicago where you could get in with a 4.0.

rowdypanther12 said:Come on, seriously—you don't necessarily need a 5.0 GPA, but I honestly can't think of a single school in Chicago where you could get in with a 4.0.

Classic 🤔

Susan James said:Classic 🤔

strictly educational

rowdypanther12 said:strictly educational

So, yeah, 🤣
even those dual-language programs (like German or French) in the local school districts require lower scores for enrollment.

But honestly, there are plenty of private high schools out there with really low entry requirements.
You’ve even got those parochial, Islamic, or all-girls academies where you can get in with a score of 60 or less, and they offer tuition assistance too.

rowdypanther12 said:strictly educational

Not to go too far off-topic here... but if they actually implemented an all-day schedule, there wouldn't be any students left in the classical track. There’s just no way a sane parent is going to enroll their kid in Latin and Greek classes that would presumably follow an intensive A2 program (from what I gathered during my meeting with the guidance counselor), which would have them finishing up around 5:00 PM for the seventh and eighth graders.

Or they'd just end up having to bring back Saturday classes. 😲

Susan James said:Kids older than 9 or 10 aren't going to see any real benefit from this setup.

What we actually need is guaranteed after-school tutoring for every student who needs it—especially those teachers who basically mandate attendance or threaten them with unexcused absences if they don't show up. The schedule shouldn't just depend on how many regular classes a teacher happens to have in their rotation.

And we definitely need to provide extra support for subjects where teachers are sending kids off to compete. It shouldn't be a situation where kids are teaching themselves while the teacher just signs the paperwork because someone has to.
It would be wonderful to have elective enrichment programs focused on deepening knowledge (regardless of competitions). In my opinion, these shouldn't even be strictly divided by grade level; they should be based on interest and talent within a specific school district.

So, what you're saying is that someone already stuck with a 23-hour weekly teaching load should also somehow find the energy for another 4 hours of tutoring per grade? Plus these extra electives? I honestly don't know who would agree to that... I mean, if you dump 27 or 28 hours of teaching on one person, how are they supposed to do a good job, especially if they're juggling 7, 8, or even 9 different programs? It just seems impossible.

Sarah Hall53 said:So, what you're saying is that someone already stuck with a 23-hour weekly teaching load should also somehow find the energy for another 4 hours of tutoring per grade? Plus these extra electives? I honestly don't know who would agree to that... I mean, if you dump 27 or 28 hours of teaching on one person, how are they supposed to do a good job, especially if they're juggling 7, 8, or even 9 different programs? It just seems impossible.

I think I might have misspoken earlier.
What I really meant was that schools need to make sure these extra support sessions are actually available to students. It shouldn't just depend on whether a teacher happens to have an open slot in their schedule. In other words, if the current staff is already maxed out, the principal needs to hire additional teachers to meet that demand.
The same goes for administrative tasks or union duties—those shouldn't be piled onto teachers who are already stretched thin trying to cover essential remedial classes.

And just to reiterate: if a teacher tells a student they need to attend a makeup session because they missed class or failed to turn in an assignment, that student needs to show up. If they don't, it should be marked as an unexcused absence. A teacher shouldn't just be sitting there waiting to see if anyone bothers to show up.
(If you ask me, most grading corrections should happen during those dedicated sessions so the rest of the class isn't held back by a few individuals. I know changing the district policy is a huge hurdle, but it really needs to happen.)

Honestly, I’m right there with you on this one.
I swear, if I could just snap my fingers and get these kids to actually show up for after-school tutoring, it would be a total godsend—like, a literal miracle. And wouldn't it be great if I had a dedicated hour for every single grade level each week? Right now, I’ve got one measly hour to cover all four grades, and it’s just... well, it's a mess. If everyone from every grade actually showed up at once, I’d be running around like a maniac trying to keep up—but if I only get one student from each class, I’m basically just sitting there staring at an empty room for forty-five minutes. It's pretty ridiculous, really.

There is no such thing as a legal mechanism for corrections 😬

But apparently, my group is expected to handle all those fixes during overtime. Sure, why not?

The problem is, I’m already juggling four different programs, and I can barely manage a single hour of extra work when someone from any one of them shows up at my desk—let alone find the capacity to mentor anyone else while I'm at it. It is frankly absurd that anyone thought it was a good idea to pile all these responsibilities onto one person simultaneously.

Carl Bishop2 said:The point I was making is simply that full-day schooling isn't bad for everyone; some students can actually benefit quite a bit from it.
As for the rest of your comment, I’d really appreciate it if we didn't turn this discussion into a personal attack.

Actually, why not? I'm all for it. That's basically how after-school programs work anyway—it's optional for those who want it (or whose parents want it for them).

We didn't really have that happening here. I used to help out a few friends from different schools, but my memory is pretty fuzzy on the details—except for one girl where it wasn't even clear what the issue was; she probably just needed to focus better.

Just because "someone" finds it helpful to have a mountain of extra worksheets every single day, or because "someone" struggles to finish their homework without help, doesn't mean that "everyone" should be forced to deal with endless supplemental work and supervised study sessions every afternoon. And we're talking about doing this for 8 years. 8 YEARS!!!
Exactly—after-school care is for those who "want to" or "have to," but it’s certainly not something everyone "wants" or "needs." Especially not for 8 LONG YEARS!!!
And look, I'm not trying to make this personal here. I’m not attacking you specifically, but rather your posts, which seem so intensely empathetic toward a small minority of students struggling in school that it feels like the majority is being forced to constantly adjust just so that tiny group can be accommodated at any cost—even if it means average or high-achieving kids having teachers breathing down their necks for 8 HOURS every day while they struggle through homework they could easily handle on their own.
If this actually becomes the standard, I honestly fear we’ll end up raising generations of completely dependent, incapable individuals.
It would probably be better if they just designed a specific full-day program for those children requiring individualized plans and accommodations—assuming it doesn't conflict with things like ADHD or similar diagnoses—but then let specialists like pedagogues, psychologists, therapists, or speech pathologists take over, working with them in small groups or one-on-one.
Instead of messing with an entire classroom for 8 years by forcing an eight-hour "workday" on them just because one kid lacks a desk, another doesn't grasp math, and another has dyslexia.🙄