All-day school schedules

Bryan Wells11 said:Exactly. But anyone working outside the system doesn't realize the sheer number of combinations we deal with here. We have to navigate bizarre situations and incredibly nonsensical behavior. There are endless life stories and circumstances that leave our hands tied, forcing us to operate within extremely narrow margins just to manage everything. Honestly, I get overwhelmed by how problematic this gets. I constantly wonder why I, as an English teacher, am expected to play psychologist, social worker, priest, and whatnot. Why isn't this being handled by the people actually trained for it?

That's the thing. 👍

wanderingbadger44 said:We just need actual punishments for bullies, plain and simple.

Why didn't the kid being extorted speak up?
It's not like he was blind or stupid. He's likely wondering what would actually happen if he did. Would some CIA agent pull him aside and say, "Oh, now, that wasn't very nice! You should apologize!"? We all know how that goes.

The reality is, the kid just got a stern warning and life went on. We have kids collecting warnings like they're trading cards. For a troublemaker, a warning doesn't mean anything at all.

I guess there’s a whole bunch of kids for whom an all-day school schedule would just be a nightmare. You’ve got kids with learning disabilities, kids dealing with bullying, kids who just aren't social creatures, or maybe they're just super into extracurriculars and want their life back. I think there are way too many kids who'd rather stay out of school as much as possible. Someone mentioned earlier that some kids don't even feel comfortable enough to use the restroom at their elementary school—that tells you everything you need to know about how some of these kids fit in.
If we're talking about equal opportunity and helping the kids who actually *need* more time in the classroom, then we should probably consider the fact that this plan is a total disaster for everyone else.

Either they’ll get called into the counselor's office, there will be some big "heart-to-heart" with the kid and the parents, maybe run a little workshop during homeroom—and then what? The teacher keeps preaching about non-violence, but the whole thing just hits a dead end because there are zero actual consequences. A few talks aren't going to change a bully, especially when most of those issues stem from deep-rooted problems at home anyway. During homeroom, all we can really do is talk and hope someone is actually listening. I don't know how it works in other districts, but in my school, parents usually start breathing down our necks when kids transition from elementary to middle school. They seem to think homeroom teachers are somehow omniscient—like we’re supposed to know every single whispered word or playground spat happening in every other classroom. Honestly, regarding that fight between the two classes mentioned earlier—as a teacher, I'm often at the mercy of whether the kids actually trust me enough to come forward. And once again, we’re back to square one: talking and hoping it actually makes a difference.

Years back, we had two kids slash the tires on a coworker's car. Fast forward a few years later, and they're basically camping out in state prisons. Someone really dropped the ball on early intervention.

We really shouldn't overlook the fact that kids are stuck sitting on those rock-hard wooden chairs for most of the day. It’s brutal. Take my youngest, for example—he usually ends up doing his homework sprawled out on the floor. Both of my kids prefer studying on their beds, even though they have perfectly good desks right in front of them.

I’m always telling my high schoolers to get moving—sit on the floor, perch on a stool, stand up to stretch, or even just kick their shoes off for a bit. But honestly, if schools want kids to actually focus, the classrooms need more than just basic desks and benches; they need furniture that doesn't feel like a torture device.

Bryan Wells11 said:

I don't know what you're trying to say here. It’s just one word. If you have an actual point to make, then make it. Otherwise, why even post? kaže:
Just because "someone" benefits from a mountain of extra credit every single day, and just because "someone" can't seem to finish an assignment without help, doesn't mean "everyone" should be forced to deal with endless supplemental work and constant supervision. And that's how it goes for eight years. Eight YEARS!!!
Exactly—residency permits are there for those who actually want them or are required to have them. But let’s be real: not everyone wants one, and certainly not everyone needs one. And they definitely don't need to be stuck dealing with that for 8 YEARS!!!
Look, this isn't even personal. I’m not attacking you directly, but your posts are just way too overly empathetic toward a minority dealing with school struggles. It makes it seem like the majority is expected to constantly bend over backward just so that small group can fit in at any cost. Maybe it's just my take, but it feels like average or even high-achieving kids are being penalized—like they have teachers breathing down their necks for eight hours a day just to finish assignments they could easily do in their sleep.
If this actually happens, we’re going to end up raising and educating entire generations of completely helpless, incompetent losers. I guess it's inevitable at this rate.
They might as well just invent some sort of full-day care model for kids requiring individualized accommodations—assuming their diagnoses, like ADHD, don't strictly prohibit it. But if they go that route, those programs should be run by actual professionals—pedagogues, psychologists, special educators, and speech therapists—working in small groups or one-on-one. Anything else is pointless.
It’s honestly ridiculous to screw over an entire class for eight years just because of some scheduling nonsense. We're stuck with this eight-hour "workday" when the reality is a total mess: Ivan doesn't even have a proper desk, Stefan can't wrap his head around math, and Bara is struggling with dyslexia. It's just poorly managed.🙄

Exactly.
It feels like people have been playing the victim since their school days. Honestly, just hand over your pathetic little diagnoses and your endless list of grievances so these people with messiah complexes can pretend they’re performing some grand act of social good. It's exhausting—there is just so much empty, hollow sentimentality out there, from high-ranking government officials all the way down the ladder.
The reality is a total mess that doesn't serve anyone. There are students with diagnoses who belong in specialized classrooms or integrated programs with dedicated aides—that’s the only way this works, and frankly, it's the only fair approach for them, the other students, and the teachers alike. I guess my view is that kids with specific needs should be working with educational therapists and specialists who actually know how to help them master the curriculum based on their individual abilities. Professional support isn't optional; it's necessary.
That’s only one side of the story. We also have kids who struggle academically, so parents take them for evaluations just to get a piece of paper—and those papers can be used to justify just about anything. You end up with students where it's impossible to invest even the slightest bit of mental effort into modifying criteria, offering extra credit, or providing more time, because if you did, they'd just use those accommodations to pad their grades. Now, we're looking at a situation where all the kids are stuck sitting in summer school with them, endlessly repeating material they couldn't grasp in the first place.
Furthermore, you end up dealing with kids who have legitimate issues, yet their parents act completely oblivious and refuse any kind of intervention. So, you’re left struggling with these various disorders without even knowing where to begin.
Then you have the kids with behavioral disorders. In my opinion, they’re the toughest group to deal with—often dangerous to themselves and everyone around them. You practically can't do anything with them; they sabotage the entire learning process and cause daily disruptions, yet they just cycle through the school system without any meaningful change or improvement in their behavior. It honestly gives me the chills to think that, under this massive new plan, all children will be forced to spend twice as much time locked in rooms with them. Some kids are already desperate to just get home the second they finish class if there's someone like that in the room—or even just a typical bully without a diagnosis. Now, imagine having to eat lunch with them and then deal with that chaos all afternoon. It’s horrific. What a wonderful way to enrich the educational experience.
The most neglected group out there is actually well-behaved, polite, average, or even high-achieving kids. It sounds harsh, I guess, but that’s just how it is. We are constantly obsessed with some kind of collective rehabilitation and forced equity. It’s a grim reality.

🙏🙏🙏
there isn't much else to say.

Carl Bishop2, it’s actually quite sad that you’re here, ready to lecture for a dozen posts about something you don't even truly care about, and you haven't even grasped the core of the argument🙄
it’s classic forum behavior, I guess.🙂
And then you twist the argument again to explain why people are complaining: imagine, maybe disgruntled teachers aren't just looking out for their own wallets or how much more money they can squeeze out of a salary increase, but are (unlike many parents) actually aware that mainstreaming for children is an extremely bad idea.😲
Look, I personally have nothing to do with mainstreaming in a professional or financial sense, but I wouldn't want a single one of my own children to catch that nonsense, and I’ll fight against that kind of confinement however I can.

urbantinker8, I haven't actually had a chance to dig into that document yet—trying to open it on my phone is a total nightmare, and since I'm working on my desktop right now, I don't really touch the computer during my downtime. My point was simply that I’m interested in seeing the bigger picture and hearing what everyone else has gone through; if you all just want to vent about this reform, feel free—the floor is yours. Just to be clear, I’m not out here defending this reform or Fuchsov’s vision.
It’s honestly tough to reply to every single person without turning this into one giant wall of quotes, so I'll try to keep it brief:
Persephone and whoever else—if you aren't running actual surveys at your school, you don't really have a pulse on what's actually happening on the ground. I definitely agree that the lack of disciplinary consequences is a massive issue. We aren't teaching kids how to take responsibility for their own actions.
jadetinker85, if people are coming to you to confide that they're planning fights at school, then clearly you're doing something right. 👍
Monstera, I’ve been reading your posts for years regarding how to handle kids with special needs. It seems like your advice is always some version of "they shouldn't go to preschool so they can play in the park" or "they shouldn't stay in after-school care." As a parent of a child with neurodivergent needs, I have to say that your stance can actually be quite harmful to those kids—especially since you present yourself as an expert, which leads people to believe your perspective is grounded in professional insight. Kids with disabilities are far too diverse a group for a "one size fits all" solution. What works for one child won't work for another; for some, going home early from school might be best, while for others, staying longer might be the better option. The reality is that our institutions struggle to adapt to individual needs, which I get, but please stop trying to sell parents the idea that these rigid structures are being implemented for the "well-being" of the child.

You’re drifting completely off-topic here, though I do recall you turning just about every discussion into a grievance session against teachers and the school system. It seems your standard move is to demand they overhaul the entire curriculum specifically for your child—whether it's accommodations for dyslexia or whatever else—expecting them to dedicate 100% of their energy to one student as if the rest of the class simply didn't exist.

Jason Morgan said:You’re drifting completely off-topic here, though I do recall you turning just about every discussion into a grievance session against teachers and the school system. It seems your standard move is to demand they overhaul the entire curriculum specifically for your child—whether it's accommodations for dyslexia or whatever else—expecting them to dedicate 100% of their energy to one student as if the rest of the class simply didn't exist.

If you’re actually addressing me, you’ve definitely confused me with someone else, because:
1) I don't go around bashing teachers—though, granted, I do find myself criticizing the system from time to time.
2) My child doesn't have an individualized education plan (we don't need one right now, though we might later), nor do they have dyslexia. There’s no modified curriculum or special aide involved.
3) My kid doesn't require anyone to ignore the rest of the class just to focus on them.

And honestly, when I bring up examples from my surroundings, I'm not always talking about my own child. I know quite a few kids dealing with different challenges—I talk to them and their parents regularly—and since I have friends who are teachers, I get to see these issues from a totally different perspective.

Personally, I’m crossing my fingers that teachers actually stage some kind of revolt against this experimental reform. It’s a total train wreck waiting to happen. Especially in a system where we’re already chronically short-staffed, where teachers are expected to be everything from counselors to social workers, where the laws don't even allow for real consequences for bad behavior, and where kids are just being buried under mountains of busywork...
And how do politicians respond to all those existing issues? They decide to pile on even more classroom hours. Give me a break.
As a parent, there is absolutely no way I want this for my kid.

Melissa Sanchez8 said:Personally, I’m crossing my fingers that teachers actually stage some kind of revolt against this experimental reform. It’s a total train wreck waiting to happen. Especially in a system where we’re already chronically short-staffed, where teachers are expected to be everything from counselors to social workers, where the laws don't even allow for real consequences for bad behavior, and where kids are just being buried under mountains of busywork...
And how do politicians respond to all those existing issues? They decide to pile on even more classroom hours. Give me a break.
As a parent, there is absolutely no way I want this for my kid.

I really doubt there’ll be much pushback, though. My principal is one of those people loyal to the Republican Party, and she'll probably sign the school up for this pilot program regardless of whether the staff likes it or not. Well, "likes it" is a stretch—most of them were against it at first, but they got swayed pretty fast by the promise of extra funding for their classrooms if the school makes the cut. I bet the exact same thing is happening in faculty lounges all over the country.

Carl Bishop2 said:urbantinker8, I haven't actually had a chance to dig into that document yet—trying to open it on my phone is a total nightmare, and since I'm working on my desktop right now, I don't really touch the computer during my downtime. My point was simply that I’m interested in seeing the bigger picture and hearing what everyone else has gone through; if you all just want to vent about this reform, feel free—the floor is yours. Just to be clear, I’m not out here defending this reform or Fuchsov’s vision.
It’s honestly tough to reply to every single person without turning this into one giant wall of quotes, so I'll try to keep it brief:
Persephone and whoever else—if you aren't running actual surveys at your school, you don't really have a pulse on what's actually happening on the ground. I definitely agree that the lack of disciplinary consequences is a massive issue. We aren't teaching kids how to take responsibility for their own actions.
jadetinker85, if people are coming to you to confide that they're planning fights at school, then clearly you're doing something right. 👍
Monstera, I’ve been reading your posts for years regarding how to handle kids with special needs. It seems like your advice is always some version of "they shouldn't go to preschool so they can play in the park" or "they shouldn't stay in after-school care." As a parent of a child with neurodivergent needs, I have to say that your stance can actually be quite harmful to those kids—especially since you present yourself as an expert, which leads people to believe your perspective is grounded in professional insight. Kids with disabilities are far too diverse a group for a "one size fits all" solution. What works for one child won't work for another; for some, going home early from school might be best, while for others, staying longer might be the better option. The reality is that our institutions struggle to adapt to individual needs, which I get, but please stop trying to sell parents the idea that these rigid structures are being implemented for the "well-being" of the child.

The real issue, I think, is that you—much like other parents of children with special needs—don't seem to grasp the fact that institutions simply cannot cater to every single child, precisely because every diagnosis is so unique. You have one teacher for twenty-five students. So, by all means, go ahead and crucify her if she fails to perfectly follow individualized instruction guidelines for every single one of the five or six kids in her class (and honestly, the average in a typical American public school is likely even higher than what I see in my local community college).
There is just this constant insistence on individual rights, which seems to be the beginning and end of every argument, while nobody really cares about the actual conditions within the classroom or the school itself.
And, if I may wander slightly off-topic: in what world could a centralized concept like this ever be a good solution when you consider how incredibly diverse these kids are, including all the different types of disorders you mentioned? Actually, thinking about the specific students I currently teach or have taught in the past—for even one single child with a diagnosis, a concept like this wouldn't even be on the table. What I mentioned earlier—the idea of implementing actual instruction through specialized teams working in pairs, small groups, or even 1:1 settings—that might actually make sense, but anything else is just nonsense.
So, naturally, we're all tearing this idea apart. Anyone who has any real-world experience working with children is going to be critical of this plan.
It would probably be a good idea to actually look over that document, especially if there's even a slight chance your own child could be affected by it.

It’s just what I was saying before—I honestly can’t wrap my head around how a child would find it better to spend their entire day living like this.

Well, look, I suppose there are people like that out there, though they certainly aren't the majority, if that makes any sense.
You have those kids who are basically wired to need constant social interaction; they can't stand being on their own, and they don't mind all the typical high school drama or moving from group to group. They aren't necessarily struggling with the actual coursework, but I guess they still find it helpful to have someone checking in on them occasionally or helping them structure their homework assignments.
And honestly, if their parents are working those grueling nine-to-five shifts just to make ends meet, but they still want to ensure their kid is supervised and eating three decent meals a day—then maybe a center like this is actually a pretty solid choice for families in that situation...
.....
.....especially during those first two or three years of schooling.☕

urbantinker8 said:The real issue, I think, is that you—much like other parents of children with special needs—don't seem to grasp the fact that institutions simply cannot cater to every single child, precisely because every diagnosis is so unique. You have one teacher for twenty-five students. So, by all means, go ahead and crucify her if she fails to perfectly follow individualized instruction guidelines for every single one of the five or six kids in her class (and honestly, the average in a typical American public school is likely even higher than what I see in my local community college).
There is just this constant insistence on individual rights, which seems to be the beginning and end of every argument, while nobody really cares about the actual conditions within the classroom or the school itself.
And, if I may wander slightly off-topic: in what world could a centralized concept like this ever be a good solution when you consider how incredibly diverse these kids are, including all the different types of disorders you mentioned? Actually, thinking about the specific students I currently teach or have taught in the past—for even one single child with a diagnosis, a concept like this wouldn't even be on the table. What I mentioned earlier—the idea of implementing actual instruction through specialized teams working in pairs, small groups, or even 1:1 settings—that might actually make sense, but anything else is just nonsense.
So, naturally, we're all tearing this idea apart. Anyone who has any real-world experience working with children is going to be critical of this plan.
It would probably be a good idea to actually look over that document, especially if there's even a slight chance your own child could be affected by it.

I don't think the blame lies with the parents at all; the math simply doesn't add up. When you have one teacher overseeing 25 kids—or one preschool educator handling a group of 25 toddlers—you're looking at a structural deficit. That's a systemic failure, not a parenting one.

Carl Bishop2 said:I don't think the blame lies with the parents at all; the math simply doesn't add up. When you have one teacher overseeing 25 kids—or one preschool educator handling a group of 25 toddlers—you're looking at a structural deficit. That's a systemic failure, not a parenting one.

It isn't really the teachers' fault either.
When there's any kind of "non-compliance" with IMF guidelines, they always seem to be the first—and honestly, the only—ones getting targeted.
Even if we somehow had three teachers in a single classroom, which, let's face it, is never going to happen in our current system, it's just impossible for the whole structure to constantly bend itself to accommodate every single individual. Some students simply won't fit in, and they probably never will, no matter how much effort the faculty puts in.
And, if I may steer us back to the actual topic (I'm not quite sure why you keep trying to dodge it, by the way? 🤔)—what kind of strategy are you thinking of that would actually help students with special needs? And just how many teachers or specialists do you think would need to be crammed into a single classroom in this part of the country every day just so they could provide that level of personalized attention every child deserves, whether they are performing at an average level, or perhaps slightly below or above it ?

urbantinker8 said:Well, look, I suppose there are people like that out there, though they certainly aren't the majority, if that makes any sense.
You have those kids who are basically wired to need constant social interaction; they can't stand being on their own, and they don't mind all the typical high school drama or moving from group to group. They aren't necessarily struggling with the actual coursework, but I guess they still find it helpful to have someone checking in on them occasionally or helping them structure their homework assignments.
And honestly, if their parents are working those grueling nine-to-five shifts just to make ends meet, but they still want to ensure their kid is supervised and eating three decent meals a day—then maybe a center like this is actually a pretty solid choice for families in that situation...
.....
.....especially during those first two or three years of schooling.☕

I’m just sitting here reading and watching everything you have to say, right down to the last word. 😂

rowdypanther12 said:I’m just sitting here reading and watching everything you have to say, right down to the last word. 😂

🤣
well, yeah, they definitely exist,😁
mine is one of those kids who just completely transforms whenever the holidays roll around,🤦
but I am pretty much certain she won't be acting like that until at least eighth grade, I suppose.😂

urbantinker8 said:It isn't really the teachers' fault either.
When there's any kind of "non-compliance" with IMF guidelines, they always seem to be the first—and honestly, the only—ones getting targeted.
Even if we somehow had three teachers in a single classroom, which, let's face it, is never going to happen in our current system, it's just impossible for the whole structure to constantly bend itself to accommodate every single individual. Some students simply won't fit in, and they probably never will, no matter how much effort the faculty puts in.
And, if I may steer us back to the actual topic (I'm not quite sure why you keep trying to dodge it, by the way? 🤔)—what kind of strategy are you thinking of that would actually help students with special needs? And just how many teachers or specialists do you think would need to be crammed into a single classroom in this part of the country every day just so they could provide that level of personalized attention every child deserves, whether they are performing at an average level, or perhaps slightly below or above it ?

You brought students with special needs into this conversation, even though my primary point was about how computers can benefit students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and immigrant children (to help them better learn the language and integrate more smoothly into society). So, I hadn't mentioned kids with learning disabilities until now.
And then Africa decided to call me out over things she just imagined—forgive me for responding to posts where I'm being questioned or singled out.

But seriously, we can get back to the computers now.
I don't have a firm opinion on how much teaching staff is needed in the A2 section because I just don't know enough about the specifics.
What do you think? How many specialists or teachers should be in a classroom of 25 students—where, say, four of them require accommodations, like in a 5th-grade A2 setting?