All-day school schedules

I am absolutely incensed by the sheer lack of intellectual rigor being displayed in this discussion! It is truly exhausting to witness such a blatant disregard for nuance. I have been following this thread for some time now, and frankly, the level of discourse is plummeting toward nothingness. How can anyone sit there and defend such a half-baked argument without feeling a sense of profound embarrassment? It’s nothing short of a circus, and quite frankly, I am tired of being the only one attempting to apply even a modicum of logic to this chaotic mess! As hiddenseal14 previously asserted:
Is it really such a shock to anyone that parents living out in the rural sticks feel this desperate need for all-day schooling? I’ve been looking through the list of these locations in the Midwest, and it’s almost entirely small, one-room country schools—not even decent institutions in actual towns or county seats.

If you want my two cents, I’ll give them to you: those school principals absolutely had to "fall in line."

I find this absolutely unsurprising. Urban school districts simply lack the basic infrastructure required for these types of applications. Even in those rare instances where they operate on a single shift—which is hardly ever the case—they lack the necessary supplemental space to accommodate any additional needs.

In these rural school districts, most of the kids come from about five or six surrounding small towns where that local school serves as the absolute heart of the community's social life. In some of those tiny outlying areas, these kids don't even have anyone their own age to play with back home. At least at school, they're surrounded by their peers. So, of course parents are going to support this!

You all are looking at this entirely through a narrow, metropolitan lens.

Look, even the biggest advocate for CN on this topic is actually talking about small children. 🤷

rowdypanther12 said:Look, even the biggest advocate for CN on this topic is actually talking about small children. 🤷

Even for little kids, there's still hours of English, math, and these new subjects... It's just overloading kids who are already maxed out. Kids are kids; they need playtime, not back-to-back lessons from morning until night. And it isn't just the kids. Adults need downtime too. Retirees do, as well.

Carol Johnson21 said:Is it really any surprise that parents from rural areas have a greater need for full-day schooling? Looking at this list from the Midwest, most of these are tiny rural schools—hardly even schools in small towns or county seats.

My two cents? I suspect the principals all had to "fall in line."

And honestly, who are these advocates for full-day programs anyway? It's a numbers game. Schools apply for these things so they can qualify for renovation grants and actually look halfway decent; they need the funding. That's the real driver here. What does a full-day schedule actually do for kids living out in the sticks? Most of them live right near their extended family, or their parents are busy running some kind of farm. For most of these rural schools, they don't need longer hours—they just need damn money.

Jason Morgan said:And honestly, who are these advocates for full-day programs anyway? It's a numbers game. Schools apply for these things so they can qualify for renovation grants and actually look halfway decent; they need the funding. That's the real driver here. What does a full-day schedule actually do for kids living out in the sticks? Most of them live right near their extended family, or their parents are busy running some kind of farm. For most of these rural schools, they don't need longer hours—they just need damn money.

I suppose I agree that's the reason.

mellowskipper said:We’re looking at an epidemic of mentally ill children—it is a serious pathology. We're seeing a surge in suicides, including severe attempts where kids barely survive, often leaving them with permanent disabilities.
Child and adolescent psychologists and psychiatrists are completely overwhelmed; I mean, they are bursting at the seams. You might wait months just for an initial consultation. There aren't enough hospital beds for inpatient care, either. Even if you go to a private clinic, getting a quick appointment is becoming nearly impossible.
There is a pilot program launching now to bring child psychologists into the FBI, which—if I'm being honest—is something I welcome.
Given this context, and considering how the CIA operates, homeschooling should be allowed, sure, but only in extreme cases. It needs solid arguments, recommendations from a professional team, and actual medical documentation. It shouldn't just be something a parent decides on a whim because they feel like it.

Psychologists, educational rehab specialists (though, let's face it, they're basically non-existent on the market right now...), and kinesiology experts really ought to be the backbone of our education system today. Major props to my colleagues in those fields, but this is absolutely critical right now—and I don't mean just "nice to have" stuff. We desperately need psychologists working directly with kids, special education specialists because we're seeing more children with developmental challenges, and kinesiology experts because we know what physical activity does for a person. I wouldn't even call it "sports"—just purposeful movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neur...hese%20long%2D

Look, even Lionel Messi wouldn't have become Lionel Messi if he had only trained three times a week. And Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart wouldn't be Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart if he only played occasionally.

What we need today is systematic, planned, and programmed work. It's unfortunate, but that's the reality.

On a side note, I was watching Good Morning America yesterday, and there was some foreign policy expert talking about tragedies in neighboring regions, and he somehow tied it back to remote learning as if it were a negative factor in that specific context.

Jason Morgan said:And honestly, who are these advocates for full-day programs anyway? It's a numbers game. Schools apply for these things so they can qualify for renovation grants and actually look halfway decent; they need the funding. That's the real driver here. What does a full-day schedule actually do for kids living out in the sticks? Most of them live right near their extended family, or their parents are busy running some kind of farm. For most of these rural schools, they don't need longer hours—they just need damn money.

From what I’ve seen, looking at almost every school listed across three Midwestern counties, nearly all of them have been renovated and updated over the last decade or so.

Some of these aren't even tiny satellite campuses; we're talking about towns with over 1,000 residents (like a Small town, USA or a Small town, USA) where there are plenty of kids and peers.
I know of at least two schools where the parents actually tried to fight the application with a petition.

For the OBŽ list, you really ought to include two more local schools—August Šenoa Elementary School and Mladost Elementary School. Honestly, August Šenoa has been struggling with enrollment numbers for years now because they share their district with Mladost and another school, Cesarić. And since Cesarić sits about fifteen spots higher on those rankings that actually weigh SAT scores, it’s pretty obvious why parents tend to gravitate there instead. Then there's Mladost—they’ve basically been the pioneers for experimental programs since the seventies. But when this specific program was first proposed? They shot it down immediately. It took a whole series of "informative" meetings—first the principal meeting with the founder, then people being pulled aside individually by the principal for some serious brainwashing, and finally a public vote where everyone just raised their hands... and wouldn't you know it? Suddenly, most of them were all for it.
Color me shocked.

The second rumor I've picked up is that most of the schools deciding whether to join this experiment were facing direct or indirect threats of having their classroom counts slashed. You have to remember, we're talking about small rural schools where the existence of an entire classroom often hinges on just one or two students. Principals were essentially promised that if they signed on, their approved number of classrooms would stay steady for the next four years—which basically implied that if they *didn't* join, their classes would be cut (creating these weird technological surpluses). If they could merge a first grade and a second grade class, they'd do it. Instead of approving two first-grade rooms during enrollment, they'd only approve one. Or they'd mash the first and second grades together into one overcrowded room that's bursting at the seams. Whether this is actually true or just talk, I don't know, but I've heard those stories from a few different places.

Carol Johnson21 said:From what I’ve seen, looking at almost every school listed across three Midwestern counties, nearly all of them have been renovated and updated over the last decade or so.

Some of these aren't even tiny satellite campuses; we're talking about towns with over 1,000 residents (like a Small town, USA or a Small town, USA) where there are plenty of kids and peers.
I know of at least two schools where the parents actually tried to fight the application with a petition.

The reality? It boils down to a principal who is hungry for more funding just so he can leave his mark on the building's history. All these "renovations" we see are just cosmetic energy-efficiency upgrades on the exterior; they haven't touched the actual interior infrastructure. Or, quite frankly, he just wants a 25% raise.
Then there's the third option: those political threats I mentioned earlier.
There really isn't much else to it. Nobody actually wants this nonsense.

Jason Morgan said:The reality? It boils down to a principal who is hungry for more funding just so he can leave his mark on the building's history. All these "renovations" we see are just cosmetic energy-efficiency upgrades on the exterior; they haven't touched the actual interior infrastructure. Or, quite frankly, he just wants a 25% raise.
Then there's the third option: those political threats I mentioned earlier.
There really isn't much else to it. Nobody actually wants this nonsense.

That sounds about right to me. Honestly, I'm just relieved I don't have middle schoolers under my wing anymore.
I have a friend who started a petition against CNN regarding one of those schools out in the Midwest. I won't even go into the kind of pushback she faced.
As if we need Fuchs lecturing us on hiding scalpels during class.
The house is on fire, and we're all just standing here watching it burn.

Carol Johnson21 said:That sounds about right to me. Honestly, I'm just relieved I don't have middle schoolers under my wing anymore.
I have a friend who started a petition against CNN regarding one of those schools out in the Midwest. I won't even go into the kind of pushback she faced.
As if we need Fuchs lecturing us on hiding scalpels during class.
The house is on fire, and we're all just standing here watching it burn.

Everything's going to hell and people are just worried about their hair.

Carol Johnson21 said:That sounds about right to me. Honestly, I'm just relieved I don't have middle schoolers under my wing anymore.
I have a friend who started a petition against CNN regarding one of those schools out in the Midwest. I won't even go into the kind of pushback she faced.
As if we need Fuchs lecturing us on hiding scalpels during class.
The house is on fire, and we're all just standing here watching it burn.

So, how did that petition turn out?

Given recent events and the fact that more students might face bullying in schools, I came across a solid proposal being discussed for legislation in Mexico.

The suggestion is to mandate that any child exhibiting problematic behavior be referred for observation at a medical facility. This could solve a lot of issues. A retired doctor points out that working with kids who are overtly aggressive, hostile, or socially withdrawn requires a coordinated team effort to assess their health and provide continuous monitoring.

https://www.chicago.info/aktualno/psi...e-ubio/514285/

It’s not okay to have a student spitting in other kids' food, screaming like an animal during class, stealing from parents to buy a motorcycle, or sending explicit photos to the class group chat without a single doctor stepping in to evaluate them.

Alright, back to the topic at hand:

Over 50 schools have signed up for full-day classes.

Here's a news clip since they just finished taking applications:

Out of all the places in Cincinnati, only Apple Valley is doing it.

jadetinker85 said:Given recent events and the fact that more students might face bullying in schools, I came across a solid proposal being discussed for legislation in Mexico.

The suggestion is to mandate that any child exhibiting problematic behavior be referred for observation at a medical facility. This could solve a lot of issues. A retired doctor points out that working with kids who are overtly aggressive, hostile, or socially withdrawn requires a coordinated team effort to assess their health and provide continuous monitoring.

https://www.chicago.info/aktualno/psi...e-ubio/514285/

It’s not okay to have a student spitting in other kids' food, screaming like an animal during class, stealing from parents to buy a motorcycle, or sending explicit photos to the class group chat without a single doctor stepping in to evaluate them.

In theory, it's a great idea, but in practice, if you take these kids to a healthcare facility in Mexico, they'll likely run into doctors like this:

Larry Walker24 said:Alright, back to the topic at hand:

Over 50 schools have signed up for full-day classes.

Here's a news clip since they just finished taking applications:

Out of all the places in Cincinnati, only Apple Valley is doing it.

When will they actually announce which 50 schools are part of the pilot program?

Larry Walker24 said:Alright, back to the topic at hand:

Over 50 schools have signed up for full-day classes.

Here's a news clip since they just finished taking applications:

Out of all the places in Cincinnati, only Apple Valley is doing it.

I agree—we drifted way too far off-topic there. I’m hoping the mods will still move those posts to the right section.
Regarding the school schedule, if kids are out by 2:40 PM including lunch and homework time, then it’s really not that bad. I mean, looking at my situation—well, at least for my kid—with computer lab and a second language being in the opposite session, plus all the extra stuff being in the other block, the only thing left is maybe an early morning or late afternoon makeup class. Honestly, 40 minutes just to wrap up homework for the day seems reasonable. They get home by 3:00 PM, rest until 4:00 PM, or hang out with friends for a bit. Then they study in the evening, which is usually when extracurriculars happen anyway. If that was the option offered to me, I’d probably sign up in a heartbeat.

The thing is, it won't just be a quick 40-minute session once a week—it’s going to be structured. They’ll mandate one day for math, one for English, and then split the remaining two days among the other subjects. Your math teacher isn't going to be sitting there helping them finish their geography or English homework, and the English teacher certainly won't be diving into math or physics problems during that time.
I see this heading in one of two directions: either after that 40-minute circus where the teacher is expected to somehow juggle grading homework while also trying to enrich the curriculum and provide extra support, kids will still end up with a mountain of stuff to study at home—or, we'll eventually be banned from assigning homework altogether. And then, by some strange miracle, everyone will act shocked when the average student hasn't actually mastered the material and isn't pulling those straight A's parents always dream about.

mellowskipper said:I agree—we drifted way too far off-topic there. I’m hoping the mods will still move those posts to the right section.
Regarding the school schedule, if kids are out by 2:40 PM including lunch and homework time, then it’s really not that bad. I mean, looking at my situation—well, at least for my kid—with computer lab and a second language being in the opposite session, plus all the extra stuff being in the other block, the only thing left is maybe an early morning or late afternoon makeup class. Honestly, 40 minutes just to wrap up homework for the day seems reasonable. They get home by 3:00 PM, rest until 4:00 PM, or hang out with friends for a bit. Then they study in the evening, which is usually when extracurriculars happen anyway. If that was the option offered to me, I’d probably sign up in a heartbeat.

I won't move it; let it stay where it is. I started to, but it really just feeds into that parental pressure regarding grades, which is definitely going to be a thing under this new system. We might even see rural areas catching up to the suburbs, because in the cities, parents are constantly breathing down teachers' necks if an assignment isn't posted or if their kid hasn't mastered a specific topic for a test.

The difference between full-day schools and part-day schools will almost certainly impact grades, which eventually trickles down to high school admissions.
The most likely scenario? In the early stages, students will drill test prep so much that grades become totally unrealistic. Eventually, either the curriculum will have to be scaled back because there simply isn't enough time to cover everything, or angry parents will force teachers to "gift" better grades once they realize this new standard applies to everyone from kindergarten through middle school.

Wait, did we just write the exact same thing? 🤣