What exactly is the "ego"?

Patrick Wright2 said:Look, I’m just not the type of guy who can sit here and start throwing definitions around if I don't have some actual, hard evidence to back them up.

On Earth, we measure time based on the Sun—a day lasts 24 hours because that’s how much "time" it takes for the Sun to return to the same spot in our sky, which is pretty self-explanatory. When the Earth completes one full orbit around the Sun, we call that a year.

The Moon works similarly; we say a month has passed because the Moon is "full" again, just as it was a certain amount of time ago—basically, these are just cycles we use as benchmarks for measuring time.

Now, imagine you're out in Space where you can't see the Sun or the Moon—just total, absolute darkness. You don't even have a watch on your wrist. Tell me, how would you actually know what time it is, or how much "time" has elapsed?

Time was essentially an invention by humans for practical reasons, derived from the movements of celestial bodies.

Since we live in such a structured Universe, it’s natural to assume that time "passes"—that it flows linearly from a beginning toward an end. But to be more precise, everything happens in cycles; the end is the beginning, and the beginning is the end. It’s like trying to point to the exact start or finish of a circle you're looking at. I realize that sounds like a paradox, and perhaps our brains simply aren't programmed to process or grasp that concept—which is why we might need some sort of "Higher Self" to provide the answers to those kinds of questions.

The only thing that stays constant is change itself.

Look, aiko, all this stuff you're talking about is pretty interesting, but you haven't actually proven that a Higher Self even exists.
All you've done is say it wouldn't be weird if it did exist and then laid out some arguments about what its function would be if it were real.

Patrick Wright2 said:The only thing that stays constant is change itself.

Look, aiko, all this stuff you're talking about is pretty interesting, but you haven't actually proven that a Higher Self even exists.
All you've done is say it wouldn't be weird if it did exist and then laid out some arguments about what its function would be if it were real.

If I actually managed to prove the existence of a Universal Self, I'm pretty sure I'd be looking at a Nobel prize.😁

I have my doubts about whether it can even be proven—our consciousness is just too limited to grasp it. Who knows, maybe one day science will pull us closer to an answer, especially since there are hints that human consciousness is slowly waking up, or rather, expanding.

In my view, anyone looking for real answers needs to do some inner work, because I suspect the truth is buried within ourselves. Science hasn't even cracked the code on most things regarding our own bodies yet; there is still so much we don't understand, particularly when it comes to how the brain actually functions.

Even though I haven't proven the existence of a Universal Self—which isn't even the point of this thread—I hope I've shed enough light on the concept to answer the question of what the "Self" actually is.

It’s almost like we all have this internal committee of different personalities living inside us, where each one is tied to our deepest desires and moods, constantly duking it out for control!
For instance, you might make a firm, ironclad decision that you’re heading to bed early tonight to get some rest, but then the clock hits midnight and suddenly you're wide awake scrolling through Netflix instead of sleeping.
In those moments, it's pretty obvious that one version of you made the plan, while another version of you decided to stage a total rebellion against it.

Yeah, that’s actually something the Russian metaphysician Gurdjieff used to talk about.
I honestly think there's some truth to it—it's something we all deal with, really. We aren't just one solid thing; we're made up of all these different fragments that make up our personality and ego, constantly shifting and changing throughout our entire lives.

Man, anything can flip upside down from sunrise to sunset...
So you’re saying the reason we can't stick to our own damn decisions is because different versions of ourselves are pulling the strings...
Take me for example, I made this big move to just eat two meals a day, but then half the time I end up crushing a third one anyway, and it’s definitely not because I'm actually hungry—it’s more like some other version of me fought for that extra plate and won.
Wild stuff....

Is it more about Gurdjieff or Ouspensky?
I’m digging through this book by Ouspensky right now, but I honestly can't tell if these insights are actually his own unique teachings or if he's just passing along everything he learned from Gurdjieff.

Patrick Wright2 said:Man, anything can flip upside down from sunrise to sunset...
So you’re saying the reason we can't stick to our own damn decisions is because different versions of ourselves are pulling the strings...
Take me for example, I made this big move to just eat two meals a day, but then half the time I end up crushing a third one anyway, and it’s definitely not because I'm actually hungry—it’s more like some other version of me fought for that extra plate and won.
Wild stuff....

We aren't talking about basic physiological needs here—food, water, sleep, and so on. Obviously, you'll eat if you're hungry or sleep if you're tired—and sure, if you possess enough willpower, you might manage to be consistent, since willpower is just one specific personality trait. This isn't about being inconsistent; it's about the deep-seated habits, beliefs, and attitudes we've picked up through our upbringing and the influence of the society around us. All of those elements coalesce into our personality, and they're constantly at war with one another.

Look at smoking: you know it's bad for you, and one part of you wants to quit, but another part refuses to let go—so you end up in an internal tug-of-war. That's a habit people can overcome through sheer force of will if they're truly committed, though these days, the trend is to turn to hypnosis to simply wipe away—or whatever you want to call it—that specific part of us.

Patrick Wright2 said:Man, anything can flip upside down from sunrise to sunset...
So you’re saying the reason we can't stick to our own damn decisions is because different versions of ourselves are pulling the strings...
Take me for example, I made this big move to just eat two meals a day, but then half the time I end up crushing a third one anyway, and it’s definitely not because I'm actually hungry—it’s more like some other version of me fought for that extra plate and won.
Wild stuff....

Actually, that wasn't my own thought, I was just quoting Ouspensky.
But honestly, it doesn't even have anything to do with whether you're actually hungry or not,
because at the end of the day, you still make that final choice regardless of how much your stomach is actually rumbling.

Ethan Johnson said:Anyone here actually self-aware enough to have a sense of their own "Self"? I’d love to hear a few thoughts from you guys. Once you start digging into your "Self," this weird phenomenon happens where the "Self" starts observing "itself." We basically have to step into the shoes of the thinker—but can the thinker actually know who they are? It's kind of like asking if a knife can cut itself, right?

This whole thing actually popped up from that other thread about "being what you are." But here, I really want to figure out if we can even talk about our "Self" in any meaningful way. Are we just a collection of our thoughts—those random ideas floating through our heads? Probably not, since thoughts just drift in and out whenever they feel like it. So, are we our bodies? Nah, because our bodies are constantly shifting, cells are swapping out, and we're all just getting older. So... what the hell is the "Self" actually?

I just finished a book by DeMell regarding this "self" thing... I think... according to him, you could be a pencil instead of a person and still have a "self," but he didn't really define it. It seems like he doesn't have a clue either.
I've read Tolle too... "The Power of Now"... and he tries to explain the "self" through this state of being in the "now," where you stop overthinking, though that eventually turns into a kind of general numbness over time.
From what I gather, you have the option to either contemplate the "self" or simply *be* the "self," which can be useful, but you could also end up losing your mind depending on how you handle it.
Or, you can just stop thinking and simply observe the "self"... like a bystander... or a dog watching its own brain (per Tolle).
I'm not sure how to approach this. It's a massive shift, and you can easily lose your way and mess up your life either way.😁

Thomas Walker13 said:I just finished a book by DeMell regarding this "self" thing... I think... according to him, you could be a pencil instead of a person and still have a "self," but he didn't really define it. It seems like he doesn't have a clue either.
I've read Tolle too... "The Power of Now"... and he tries to explain the "self" through this state of being in the "now," where you stop overthinking, though that eventually turns into a kind of general numbness over time.
From what I gather, you have the option to either contemplate the "self" or simply *be* the "self," which can be useful, but you could also end up losing your mind depending on how you handle it.
Or, you can just stop thinking and simply observe the "self"... like a bystander... or a dog watching its own brain (per Tolle).
I'm not sure how to approach this. It's a massive shift, and you can easily lose your way and mess up your life either way.😁

Have you checked out Tolle's "A New Earth"? In my opinion, it handles the "self" thing much better than "The Power of Now," even if the concepts all bleed into one another anyway...

Thomas Walker13 said:I just finished a book by DeMell regarding this "self" thing... I think... according to him, you could be a pencil instead of a person and still have a "self," but he didn't really define it. It seems like he doesn't have a clue either.
I've read Tolle too... "The Power of Now"... and he tries to explain the "self" through this state of being in the "now," where you stop overthinking, though that eventually turns into a kind of general numbness over time.
From what I gather, you have the option to either contemplate the "self" or simply *be* the "self," which can be useful, but you could also end up losing your mind depending on how you handle it.
Or, you can just stop thinking and simply observe the "self"... like a bystander... or a dog watching its own brain (per Tolle).
I'm not sure how to approach this. It's a massive shift, and you can easily lose your way and mess up your life either way.😁

Honestly, I think you're setting yourself up for trouble if you have thousands of thoughts racing through your head every single day—constantly ruminating, rushing around, getting irritated by everything, and living in this perpetual state of dissatisfaction because of all those destructive thoughts.

When you start thinking less and observing the world—and yourself—more, paying attention to your actions and the thoughts that drift in, you become more self-aware. Your brain actually functions better that way; it isn't cluttered with thousands of useless distractions, so when you actually need to engage for something productive, it performs much more effectively than usual.

The goal is to understand our own actions—to figure out why we did something specific, what triggered us, what the underlying motive was—basically, to investigate ourselves and improve. But you can only achieve that through self-observation; essentially, if your higher self is monitoring your thoughts, you reach a higher state of consciousness.

Thoughts aren't capable of understanding themselves—they just arrive and depart. There needs to be a higher self acting as the controller, stepping in to neutralize the bad ones while letting the good, useful ones stay.

Terry Kim3 said:Honestly, I think you're setting yourself up for trouble if you have thousands of thoughts racing through your head every single day—constantly ruminating, rushing around, getting irritated by everything, and living in this perpetual state of dissatisfaction because of all those destructive thoughts.

When you start thinking less and observing the world—and yourself—more, paying attention to your actions and the thoughts that drift in, you become more self-aware. Your brain actually functions better that way; it isn't cluttered with thousands of useless distractions, so when you actually need to engage for something productive, it performs much more effectively than usual.

The goal is to understand our own actions—to figure out why we did something specific, what triggered us, what the underlying motive was—basically, to investigate ourselves and improve. But you can only achieve that through self-observation; essentially, if your higher self is monitoring your thoughts, you reach a higher state of consciousness.

Thoughts aren't capable of understanding themselves—they just arrive and depart. There needs to be a higher self acting as the controller, stepping in to neutralize the bad ones while letting the good, useful ones stay.

That sounds great on paper, but what about emotions? What happens when an emotional wave hits and wipes out all that logic you just built up, leaving you completely overwhelmed?😍
How do you handle that?

electricbadger17 said:Have you checked out Tolle's "A New Earth"? In my opinion, it handles the "self" thing much better than "The Power of Now," even if the concepts all bleed into one another anyway...

I've made it about halfway through *A New Earth*. I'm planning to finish the rest of it soon.

Thomas Walker13 said:That sounds great on paper, but what about emotions? What happens when an emotional wave hits and wipes out all that logic you just built up, leaving you completely overwhelmed?😍
How do you handle that?

Look, I get it—it’s not some simple fix. It’s a long, grueling process, and honestly, it isn't for everyone, though anyone can give it a shot.

Everything kicks off with your thoughts—basically, a positive thought triggers a positive emotion, a negative one triggers a negative one, and so on. Emotions are essentially just our body's physical reaction to our mental state. You have to realize that negative thoughts—and the resulting negative emotions—don't actually contribute anything useful, unlike their positive counterparts. Whenever a negative thought crops up, try to trace its origin—where did it come from, and why? Don't judge it; just observe. Take a deep breath and watch the thoughts and feelings as they surface.

By doing this, we turn what used to be a mindless, mechanical cycle (external trigger $\rightarrow$ negative thought $\rightarrow$ negative emotion) into a learning opportunity through observation. If a negative thought becomes overwhelming, then yeah, it's already too late—as you pointed out, self-observation becomes nearly impossible at that stage. But if you catch the thought right when it starts, you can still maintain control and prevent it from triggering those heavy bodily reactions like sadness, rage, or pure disappointment.

Of course, it’s not always doable—especially in the mess that is the modern world—but with enough practice and grit, we become more aware. We start becoming "us" again, slowly inching closer to that original, higher self.

.

A brief monologue, or perhaps a recitation 😁

In my experience, the ego is simply everything we choose to identify with. It’s the collection of labels we cling to: "I am smart," "I am foolish," "I am cunning," or "I am dull." It extends to the physical, too—claiming to be beautiful, unattractive, fast, slow, large, or small. All these identifications constitute the ego. It is essentially just content that consciousness has decided to stick to.

As for ME—well, it’s complicated, but I’ll attempt an explanation. When I strip away the emotions, the sensory inputs, the physical body, and the thoughts—everything that can be discarded—what remains is the VOID. That Void Is. It is motionless, empty of content, yet it exists. Trying to describe this with words or specific forms is futile; this immortal, all-encompassing Self has no shape, no name, and no attributes. It simply is. It is inexplicable. It can only be experienced.

Because this universal Self lacks form and possesses no specific attachments, it can be omnipresent, much like the way Yogananda so elegantly described his own experience of oneness.

And despite all of this, I still find myself wondering: what is the point of it all? Why is this planet saturated with such relentless struggle and suffering?

Even though this topic is super tricky to put into words, I’ve gotta give credit where it's due—kudos to the author! Even if we're kind of spinning our wheels here and might be losing the battle before it even starts.

Morgan King77 said:It’s almost like we all have this internal committee of different personalities living inside us, where each one is tied to our deepest desires and moods, constantly duking it out for control!
For instance, you might make a firm, ironclad decision that you’re heading to bed early tonight to get some rest, but then the clock hits midnight and suddenly you're wide awake scrolling through Netflix instead of sleeping.
In those moments, it's pretty obvious that one version of you made the plan, while another version of you decided to stage a total rebellion against it.

When you talk about these different "selves," I honestly think it all boils down to how we perceive time. Since time isn't really a fixed thing, it creates this illusion that there are multiple "selves" at play, when really it's just various circumstances hitting us and shifting our mood in the moment.

Now, I know people are gonna roll their eyes because they prefer those "scientific" sounding terms like Id, Ego, or Superego, but if we're playing along with the idea of having multiple "selves," I want to share my take using that specific logic for the following points.

Basically, if we're talking about balance, harmony, and reaching peak potential, I'd define the "formula" as an individual whose various "selves" eventually start acting as one single, unified "self." Once you hit a stage where, looking back over a stretch of time, you see one single "self" driving the action more often, then you can say you've reached true harmony, acceptance, and peace. Of course, it's impossible to stay in that state perfectly 24/7 because external factors are always going to nudge us—we're part of the world, after all, no matter how much we try to tap into our inner source first.

But, if you were to measure someone's inner peace or total satisfaction by counting the total number of "harmonious" actions produced by that single "self" compared to everything else they do, I could say with pretty high confidence that we've described the essence of *being*—something most people can't even put into words, though a tiny group who understands the context of my messy wording might get it.

(I'm leaving out the physical stuff regarding body care just to keep things simple, and honestly, who knows if I've even achieved that much myself!)

Thomas Walker13 says:

That all sounds great on paper, but what about those emotions that can totally wreck everything you just explained in a split second? Like when a massive wave hits and wipes out your entire sense of self, sending everything straight to hell?
How do you fix that?

You have to look at the big picture to answer a question like that. And that big picture includes a whole mountain of other insights, philosophies, and ways of living alongside what we're discussing here.

Most people hear something called a "universal key" and immediately jump to conclusions without looking at the context. But the real solution—the actual key is a combination of different perspectives and ways of acting that depend entirely on whatever situation life throws at you in the moment.

This is the part that involves what we might call the "core" of the story. It's all about how what we define as the "core" is actually a mix of circumstances currently affecting us combined with our own objectivity, which is the absolute prerequisite for understanding or applying anything we talk about.

"Self-observation" isn't some magic wand for hitting total peace, which is how most people totally misinterpret guys like Tolle. It’s not the *only* way. The real deal is that we should be using self-observation way more than we actually do—most people aren't even aware they're doing it!

By consistently putting in the work and flipping that ratio, we slowly bake it into our daily lives. Eventually, it becomes this essential foundation for living in the "now" and finding true harmony—both with the world around us and within ourselves.

This "tool" isn't about obsessively over-analyzing yourself like a mindless drone all day long. It's about having the ability to flip the script during those moments when we're messing up, turning things around for our own good. It’s basically ultimate self-control. (And honestly, the more you do it, the stronger you get and the higher your threshold for staying in charge becomes.)

The "tool" doesn't mean you just sit there with your hands tied while life hits you hard. Instead, it helps us when we're about to do something stupidly harmful to ourselves or others get grounded, see the smartest move to make, and then actually pull it off.

What I mean is, when I'm pouring love and attention into someone and it feels right, I’m going to lean into that like a total hedonist and soak up every single note of life's melody. But when I’m on the verge of causing unnecessary chaos, once I step back from whatever intense emotion is driving me, I’ll look at the situation with total calm and refuse to let my feelings call the shots. Basically, I won't just eliminate the excess—I'm cutting it out entirely.

And yeah, it’s going to feel incredibly soothing, kind of like how peaceful a crisp autumn afternoon feels. At least, that's how it feels to me.

Who even is Pero Perić? I mean, honestly, why is everyone suddenly acting like he's some kind of big deal when we can barely get a straight answer out of anyone around here!

Most of us think we’ve got people all figured out, right? We’re pretty damn sure we know exactly who someone is, just like we’re certain about who our real friends actually are. But honestly, whenever I try to describe myself or one of my buddies, I always end up stuck talking about superficial crap—you know, the usual stuff like gender, age, height, build, hair color, eye color, and all that nonsense.

Tell me more about this guy. What’s his deal?

Look, that description is way too thin to actually pin anyone down, so there’s zero point in dwelling on it—we need to get straight to the real meat of the matter, which is digging into this person's actual character and those deep-seated traits that define who they really are.

I need to know more! What does he actually do for a living?

Look, half of who we are is just a byproduct of our surroundings—it’s the neighborhood we grew up in, the family drama, the grind at work, or even just the circle of friends we hang out with every weekend. Honestly, if you ask me, this description is totally lacking because it misses the whole point. If you actually bother to dig a little deeper, you hit the real core of a person: what they actually give a damn about. You might have a buddy who lives for the opera or someone else who can't live without country music, or maybe one guy is obsessed with NBA basketball while his neighbor would rather curl up with a book than go out partying until sunrise. That's what makes us human.

What are we even talking about here? These traits aren't some fixed list; they’re just a collection of things people actually enjoy doing. Honestly, you don't really know someone until you figure out what makes them tick and what gives them that genuine sense of satisfaction. That's exactly why our inner circle usually consists of people who are basically mirrors of ourselves when it comes to what brings us joy.

Look, it’s pretty simple: when we’re constantly vibing on the same wavelength as our friends and hitting up the same spots, we naturally want to hang out with them more. At the end of the day, you can tell who someone really is just by looking at those specific, unique things they actually care about.

Am I actually getting what I want out of life?

So, what you're actually asking is if I am nothing more than a collection of my own desires? Like, am I just this specific pile of wants and cravings that, when you add them all up, somehow pass for a person on top of all my biological wiring?

Look, when you actually stop to think about the sheer, overwhelming mountain of different desires floating around this world—and I mean every single crazy whim people have, especially since there are a million different ways to satisfy any one of them—it honestly makes perfect sense why humanity is such a chaotic, fragmented mess of nothing but constant disagreement.

But look, let’s just pause for a second and play along with the idea that there might actually be some deeper "self" buried in here—a real "I" that isn't just some messy cocktail of physical traits and a constant, nagging hunger for the next hit of dopamine or whatever pleasure we're chasing today. If that kind of thing even exists, where on earth are we supposed to go to find it, and how the hell are we even meant to dig it out from underneath this external shell we call a persona?

Confused? Seriously, what other "self" could there possibly be besides this one?

I am not my desires, period.

The answer isn't about the desires themselves or what you're actually chasing, it's about the "who" behind them—that deeper part of you that’s doing the wanting in the first place. You have to stop looking at the goal and start asking where the actual spark of satisfaction is coming from.

Just imagine for a second that there’s this force out there—not like gravity or electricity or any of that physics stuff we learned in school, but something totally unique. This force has one specific job: it exists purely to feed us pleasure. It works by sparking those deep, restless desires we all carry around inside us, only to step in and actually satisfy them once they peak. And honestly, if you look at how people actually live, that is exactly what’s happening right now. Every single thing we do, from the tiny little habits to the massive life decisions, is nothing more than a desperate attempt to chase down some kind of satisfaction.

Look, while you guys are busy chewing over all that, just think about this for a second. We’re completely flying blind when it comes to this force, totally cut off from seeing what's actually driving the bus. But if this thing really exists like everyone says, then it isn't just pulling our strings every time we're chasing some mindless craving or even when we're just sitting on our butts doing absolutely nothing—it’s also responsible for everything every other person does. I mean, come on, every single action taken by anyone on this planet is fueled by some kind of desire to get something, whether it's big or small. It’s the same deal with animals too, though obviously our human wants are way more twisted and complicated than anything a dog or a deer is dealing with.

So, I was reading this old story about a king and a peasant the other day—you know, those classic tales that always seem to circle back to the same tired themes—and it honestly just made my blood boil because it perfectly captures how much the world has changed while staying exactly the same. You’ve got this guy sitting on a throne in some massive estate in Connecticut, probably sipping expensive bourbon and making life-altering decisions for people he wouldn't even deign to look at in the eye, while this poor laborer is out there breaking his back in the sun just to scrape together enough to pay rent. It reminds me of this one time I was stuck behind some billionaire’s motorcade on the highway in Los Angeles; they just glide through life completely insulated from the chaos, while the rest of us are left eating their exhaust and wondering when things will actually start making sense for the little guy. It’s infuriating how these power dynamics are baked into our history, and even though we aren't living under literal crowns anymore, the way the elite play god with everyone else's livelihood feels like the exact same script being played out by some corporate CEOs today.

What are we even trying to get at here? Honestly, let me just tell you a quick story because maybe that’ll make things click for everyone. Once upon a time, there were these two guys who were absolute best friends, but as they grew up, life totally split them apart—one ended up becoming this high-powered CEO and the other just some regular guy working a blue-collar job. They lost touch for years, but then one day, the CEO tracks down where the old friend is living. When he sees how much the guy is struggling, he starts secretly sending him these massive gifts and helping him out behind the scenes. The guy loves everything he's getting and is just riding this wave of good luck, so he doesn't even realize what's happening, and honestly, it takes him forever to actually stop and wonder who the hell is actually pulling the strings.

So after years of being totally clueless, this guy finally realizes there’s actually a source behind all those gifts he keeps getting, so he starts hunting for it. One day, he spots the farmer who left him a gift and decides to shadow him, and of course, the guy ends up following him straight into the White House.

When he finally meets the President, he’s absolutely floored to find out that *he* was the one providing everything all these years! The President sees how genuinely happy the man is now and asks, "What else can I give you to make you completely fulfilled?" And the guy just blurted out, "I want to be like you, doing exactly what you do." Well, the President couldn't actually do that—he could hand over his entire estate, sure, but it was up to the man to find that spark within himself to match the President's own spirit.

Honestly, we're all just like that farmer, constantly chasing these little hits of pleasure from desires that some anonymous provider planted in us. But then, at some point, we stop just obsessing over the handouts and start wondering who the hell is actually giving them to us, eventually wanting to become just like the source itself.

I need to create my true "Self"

That specific urge right there—that’s the real "Self." Why? Because every other random craving we have is basically just something handed to us by the provider. But that hunger to "be like the giver" and act like they do? That isn't something they planted in us; it’s something we cultivate ourselves. It's literally the only independent desire we actually possess, since everything else is just a reaction to what we've been given.

If someone actually wants to figure out who they really are, their search has to start by uncovering who is actually responsible for all those feelings of pleasure they experience. That's when you stop being obsessed with the stuff being given to you and start connecting with the one actually giving it.

In my book, we’re basically just the observer—it’s just that most people are walking around totally oblivious to it.
I can tell you one thing for sure, what we aren't🙂: We aren't our clothes, our cars, the house we live in, or any of that stuff we go out and buy.
We aren't our nationality, we aren't our hometowns, we aren't even our names, and we definitely aren't our bodies.
I mean, think about it—your body is constantly shifting. Every single second we're aging, so in 5 or 10 years, we’ll have
totally different cells, different blood, maybe some wrinkles, or we might lose our hair... It's a big deal;
we aren't our emotions either! Just like the body, emotions are fleeting and they can actually be
managed—if we're actually aware of them. Same goes for our
thoughts. If the observer stays "awake" and self-aware, if you really get to know your emotions,
they might still sting, but not enough to make you feel like you *are* those feelings.

Society loves to slap labels and definitions on everything. But that’s not who we are. We shouldn't get caught up in those labels, because that’s where the suffering starts.
We need to realize who we truly are without getting tangled up in our emotions. You have to recognize them, but don't let them become part of you.